Are you an online marketer? Then how come I don't know you?

[ctrlbrk]

OK, bit of a tongue-in-cheek title but bear with me. I want to make a case.

Marketing's foundation...​

What is marketing's main mantra?

You can have the best product or service in the world, but if nobody knows about it, what's the point?

From the above, we infer that a marketer's job is to give their clients visibility. The marketer - by definition - must be skilled in the art and science of putting businesses (and, sometimes, people) on the map.

Are you marketing yourselves?​

But, if they are skilled in providing visibility to businesses, how come that they are not making themselves more memorable (say on UKBF)?

In the 2.5 years I have been here I have come across a few good accountants, one or two "techies" and a couple of solicitors, all of whom I have been impressed by.

But, notably, marketers are missing from this list. Why is that?

(The only exceptions are, if I go from memory, @Paul Carmen for example, (although Paul seems to have a niche target audience: Accounting, Solicitors, Locksmiths, etc.) and @WebshopMechanic, although he doesn't seem to frequent UKBF anymore. Obviosuly I am excluding the wanna-be-marketers, whose copy or website are so poor they go in the list of people not to engage)


This is an honest question: I really want to understand why I don't know more of you guys... I should!

 

[Shopclicks]

This is an honest question: I really want to understand why I don't know more of you guys... I should!

There are very few people who label themselves a 'Marketer'.

Of the people I know about on this forum, most specialise in specific fields ... and we're not all here to sell something.

 

[ctrlbrk]

There are very few people who label themselves a 'Marketer'.

Of the people I know about on this forum, most specialise in specific fields ... and we're not all here to sell something.

Well I'm not here to sell either...... I might end up buying though, if there is a proposition?

So if they don't market themselves as marketers, what do they market as?

 

[Shopclicks]

So if they don't market themselves as marketers, what do they market as?

There are people in all sorts of marketing related services here. I know of web designers/developers, plugin developers, SEO specialists and a multitude of business owners with experience in online sales and social media use.

I think a lot of people here rely on the quality of the advice they offer to connect with people who might be potential clients. Some advice is good, some not so good. The client gets to decide without being hammered with sales pitches.

 

[fisicx]

If needed help with something I’d search for or get recommendations for someone who can help me. I wouldn’t be searching for a merketeer. Marketing is what they do rather than the service they offer.

It’s a bit like SEO. I don’t want SEO, I want more sales, increased leads, lower costs. So that’s what I’d look for. SEO may be the means to achieve this but that’s not my request.

I don’t offer SEO or marketing. What I offer is a route to a more effective business.

 

[japancool]

Comparethemeerkateers.com

 

[ctrlbrk]

The client gets to decide without being hammered with sales pitches.

That's not the point at all I was making. It's more to do with effectiveness at persuasion.

@Shopclicks @fisicx it doesn't matter what one is selling or whether they call it marketing or something else - If I'm not enticed to buy, the seller is failing at selling themselves.

 

[fisicx]

Yes, but like @Shopclicks I'm not here to entice anyone. What an offer isn’t something anyone here is likely to want. Nobody here is my target client. Which means I can waffle on regardless.

 

[Shopclicks]

If I'm not enticed to buy, the seller is failing at selling themselves.

Hardly anybody here is trying to sell themselves. If you like the replies to threads someone posts and you're in the market for what they do, you can always follow up. But constant sales pitches on a forum gets boring.

 

[fisicx]

But constant sales pitches on a forum gets boring.

And will get expunged if discovered.

 

[ctrlbrk]

Hardly anybody here is trying to sell themselves. If you like the replies to threads someone posts and you're in the market for what they do, you can always follow up. But constant sales pitches on a forum gets boring.

And will get expunged if discovered.

Once again... nobody is suggesting to see sale pitches! ?

But I'd bet people like @Mark T Jones, @JEREMY HAWKE and @Ozzy would disagree about

Hardly anybody here is trying to sell themselves.

After all, if this place isn't also about that, then it's just a giant digital lounge.

Then I might as well go to X or Twitter for that!

 

[Shopclicks]

After all, if this place isn't also about that, then it's just a giant digital lounge.

No, I disagree. Questions get answers. Reasonable people can make decisions based on what they read. And there's always the Services section within the Marketplace forum. Personally, I'd rather read someone's responses to questions than read their pitch.

 

[fisicx]

After all, if this place isn't also about that, then it's just a giant digital lounge.

No, it's a place where people ask questions and get answers.

Same as just about all other forums.

If you want to pitch your services or need a specific service post in the Marketplace.

 

[ethical PR]

I work in PR not marketing and don't market myself here as this is not my niche, so I don't need to 'sell' myself here. I come here because I find it interesting .

 

[ctrlbrk]

OK, let me see if I get this right then

1. There are no marketing agencies on here
2. Places such as this exist just to ask questions and provide answers
3. No business ever gets initiated thanks to UKBF interactions
4. People who aren't part of a topic feel compelled to have a say anyway, whether it adds value to the topic or not
5. Moderation of any such topics is nowhere to be seen

... have I missed anything?

 

[Shopclicks]

... have I missed anything?

Maybe the meaning of ... Forum.

The last 4 points are incorrect. I don't remember a 'Marketing Agency' posting here. Others may remember.

 

[japancool]

Maybe the meaning of ... Forum.

The last 4 points are incorrect. I don't remember a 'Marketing Agency' posting here. Others may remember.

Oh, I do. And they usually get short shrift, because *all* they do is spam the forum about their services, like starting up threads like "What are your biggest marketing challenges?" in blatant attempts to pitch themselves.

 

[japancool]

1. Places such as this exist just to ask questions and provide answers

Pretty much. The purpose of a forum is exchange of ideas.

*Anyone* who has run a small business with any degree of success has experience with marketing, and the benefit of a forum is you can learn what worked for other people and apply them to your own situation.

Sure, you can pay for a marketing agency to do it for you, and if you do, there are plenty of them around. A good marketing agency won't be so wanting for clients that they need to market themselves on a forum.

 

[Shopclicks]

Pretty much. The purpose of a forum is exchange of ideas.

This!

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

Well I have learnt to manipulate the situation on here and I am becoming even more dangerous as I'm constantly learning new tricks

My intentions here has only been to help, gain help and forge valuable contacts . the bi product of using this site they way that I do , I would say that I am in the top three of members when it comes to sale volumes from the site .

I make a point of being contactable and using the signature to the full advantage I am always aware of the google machine and when events in our industry become big news I take advantage of the thread as if I'm not the one to start it another member would give it a googlable title! .

I understand why others don't do what I do on here as my type of honesty may have a negative impact in other industries and businesses . That said @Mark T Jones operates on LinkedIn in a similar style to me on here and his honesty gives him good traction

 

[ctrlbrk]

Pretty much. The purpose of a forum is exchange of ideas.

That is true, in general.

About UKBF? Strongly disagree.

@Ozzy did say that Uk Business Forums should no longer be referred as such because the term 'forum' was too restrictive. True, perhaps by still calling it UKBF (i.e. with no rebrand) that message may have been lost in transit, but he did say that.

In UKBF's case, if its sole purpose is the exchange of ideas, then I suspect it's not going to add much value, at least in its present form.

It would be one thing if its forums were properly moderated but here most topics are regularly allowed to be derailed - most of the moderators themselves are in fact the worst offenders!

If I were to see it like you see it, UKBF would be a huge waste of time. Unmoderated (for the most part), reactive, unfocused.

But I don't want to see it that way. UKBF has potential, compared to other UK biz forums I have seen. It also has tools (banking comparisons, etc.) so it is not only a place to exchange ideas.

Sure, you can pay for a marketing agency to do it for you, and if you do, there are plenty of them around. A good marketing agency won't be so wanting for clients that they need to market themselves on a forum.

Well, if what you say is true, then no wonder I haven't seen many on here! I will think about this. Thanks.

 

[ethical PR]

OK, let me see if I get this right then

1. There are no marketing agencies on here
2. Places such as this exist just to ask questions and provide answers
3. No business ever gets initiated thanks to UKBF interactions
4. People who aren't part of a topic feel compelled to have a say anyway, whether it adds value to the topic or not
5. Moderation of any such topics is nowhere to be seen

... have I missed anything?

Yes

6. I am purposely misunderstanding what people say

 

[japancool]

If I were to see it like you see it, UKBF would be a huge waste of time. Unmoderated (for the most part), reactive, unfocused.

Well, I'm referring *only* to the forum part, not the site as a whole.

 

[japancool]

Well, if what you say is true, then no wonder I haven't seen many on here! I will think about this. Thanks.

There was only one I recall who used to post here regularly, AllUpHere but he left the forum.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Once again... nobody is suggesting to see sale pitches! ?

But I'd bet people like @Mark T Jones, @JEREMY HAWKE and @Ozzy would disagree about


After all, if this place isn't also about that, then it's just a giant digital lounge.

Then I might as well go to X or Twitter for that!

I very seldom promote myself on here. It attracts the wrong sort of enquiry.

Though I see nothing wrong in letting people know what you do - mostly through answering questions in an impartial and generous way, with the occasional dollop of blatant self-promotion.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Well I have learnt to manipulate the situation on here and I am becoming even more dangerous as I'm constantly learning new tricks



I understand why others don't do what I do on here as my type of honesty may have a negative impact in other industries and businesses . That said @Mark T Jones operates on LinkedIn in a similar style to me on here and his honesty gives him good traction

Honesty is quite an effective way of filtering enquiries. The challenge for me isn't finding people who want finance - BBL showed us all how easy that is - it's finding people who want finance for the right reasons, & who are going to repay.

If you're going to be a regular on a platform, you need to enjoy it, not just advertise your stuff. A key driver for me in LinkedIn is simply not to be like the other boring finance brokers.

Thank you for the mention by the way - I hope you continue to enjoy it.

 

[ctrlbrk]

Though I see nothing wrong in letting people know what you do - mostly through answering questions in an impartial and generous way, with the occasional dollop of blatant self-promotion.

Hi Mark, that is exactly what I am suggesting.

I never suggested self-promotion in the general (and bad) sense of the word. I think people like you use this medium in the way that most business people should: by helping others.

 

[Paul Carmen]

(The only exceptions are, if I go from memory, @Paul Carmen for example, (although Paul seems to have a niche target audience: Accounting, Solicitors, Locksmiths, etc.) and @WebshopMechanic, although he doesn't seem to frequent UKBF anymore. Obviosuly I am excluding the wanna-be-marketers, whose copy or website are so poor they go in the list of people not to engage)

@ctrlbrk thanks for the positive mention. We do focus on lead gen projects and certain higher ticket business types as our niche, our biggest areas are mortgages and finance, along with review generation and consultancy for lead generation projects.

As you and others say, self promotion rarely works, we try and help people if we can. In reality the general advice around customer, market and competitor research, to create a proper project and marketing plan, holds true for almost all industries.

This means we do occasionally pick up work here, but primarily it's good to help people and give something back.

 

[ctrlbrk]

As you and others say, self promotion rarely works, we try and help people if we can.

Thanks Paul. I will give you my example - when someone helped me with a question I had it made them more memorable - which increased the likelihood of working with them in the future.

That's the type of business interaction I was referring to.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

Hardly anybody here is trying to sell themselves.

If you like the advice being offered by people who are not selling, they may be better people to work with than those who come here to pitch!

I have had several people contact me over the years and I have worked with a couple of them. They came to me because of the advice I gave/comments made not because I claimed to do/deliver something.

 

[Shopclicks]

They came to me because of the advice I gave/comments made not because I claimed to do/deliver something.

I think this is what makes for a better forum.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

I think this is what makes for a better forum.

I agree.

As someone who runs a few business-focused FB groups, the amount of spamming is unbelievable. I work on the principle of being a giver before trying to take! Indeed, give the right stuff and you will not have to take anything - it will come to you!

 

[Paul FilmMaker]

Well two reason for me.

Firstly, customers tend to hire my little business because they're doing something super-ambitious and want to change the world. So the businesses my team and I are servicing are doing incredible things like offering game-changing tech or trying to get their organisations to do amazing things by being more diverse and great places to work. If you're not in that category, you probably won't hear from me!

Secondly, my next campaign is going out focused on a specific area of tech and you may not be in it.

So I'd hope my marketing spend is going to the right place. Focused on market segments which are much more likely to hire my little video production business.

 

[ctrlbrk]

Well two reason for me.

Wow, Paul, interesting.

I would not have classed you as marketing per se, perhaps more a 'marketing support' service but I do see where you're coming from, thanks.

 

[Paul FilmMaker]

Wow, Paul, interesting.

I would not have classed you as marketing per se, perhaps more a 'marketing support' service but I do see where you're coming from, thanks.

Absolutely. We're a marketing support service which allows businesses to generate a ton more leads and sales.

It allows those businesses to do amazing things themselves. So here you go, here's an incredible piece of content to create much higher conversions on your website. In effect, you turn website visitors into customers.

Or here's a Linkedin campaign. Or here's something for your email marketing campaign etc...