App Development , Looking for some guidance

[BuzzBuzz]

Hi

I’ve developed a concept that will require an app , the app wont particularly be doing anything revolutionary tech wise but it will be destined to shake an entire industry up if I get the branding right it could easily go global once established

I have completed most of my business plan , done some market research, thought of the brand name, registered the company as an ltd and have secured up to 10K in funding

I still have a host of other things to do

I.E

Trademark brand name
Register Web Domains
Set up Business Bank Account ( hope to complete application today )
Create Social Media Handles
Design Logo for brand
Finish APP specification
Retrieve 5 Quotes/ proposals from App Developers ( currently have 1 out of 5 )


Probably loads of other stuff I haven’t even thought of yet and I have felt slightly overwhelmed this week I work full time 37 hours a week and although I have some capacity in work to work towards my project in office hours I still need to complete my day job to a satisfactory standard or I will gain unwanted attention from colleagues / boss

On top of this I have very little experience in APP development I have outlined how I plan for the APP to operate and what technologies will be required but that’s about as far as my capabilities will stretch at the moment


he area in which I live isn’t incredibly tech orientated apps are still seen as futuristic and most app developers are at a minimum a 2 hour drive to meet in person , I am also apprehensive about dishing out the entire concept freely through email / social media to potential app developers


Just looking for some guidance on what to do next really or if anyone has experience in developing an APP

thanks

 

[fisicx]

Hi Buzz x 2,

....but it will be destined to shake an entire industry up if I get the branding right it could easily go global once established

But probably won't. Apps rarely go global (or even local) without a big chunk of marketing investment. And even then it's hard work.

Just looking for some guidance on what to do next really or if anyone has experience in developing an APP

Money, money and then more money.

You can get cheap apps built but they are...cheap. Decent apps cost money. I was looking to get an app developed for a client and qoutes are coming in between £5000 and £8000.

Wouldn't worry about dishing out the details, app developers won't be stealing your idea.

Why do you need to be a business? You can build and market the app as a sole trader, you don't even need a website.

 

[crackerjackcommerce]

Sounds exciting, you could ask on Stack about app development and search on there for "building app" "industry app" "how to hire developer" etc

https://stackexchange.com/sites
stackoverflowbusiness.com/uk/talent/platform

Wouldn't worry about dishing out the details, app developers won't be stealing your idea.

I would agree with this, if things got more serious you can ask for them to sign a non disclosure agreement.

---

Do you know someone who you can trust their judgement in the industry you will be marketing too? That would be a good place to get some feedback on exactly what they would expect from the app.

Good luck with it.

 

[BuzzBuzz]

Hi Buzz x 2,


But probably won't. Apps rarely go global (or even local) without a big chunk of marketing investment. And even then it's hard work.

Money, money and then more money.

You can get cheap apps built but they are...cheap. Decent apps cost money. I was looking to get an app developed for a client and qoutes are coming in between £5000 and £8000.

Wouldn't worry about dishing out the details, app developers won't be stealing your idea.

Why do you need to be a business? You can build and market the app as a sole trader, you don't even need a website.

well i guess you could say that for just about any new platform on planet earth, any tech start up begins as an ambitious punt

it took 4 years for just eat to leave Denmark

3 years for Uber to leave the states

the good news is that mobile applications aren't going anywhere and are arguably going to take over the next generation of eCommerce as consumers get lazier and lazier they want everything done directly from their mobile phone

you are right good apps aren't cheap and i fully expect this one to cost north of 10K , the good news being once it is developed it wont need to be developed again meaning i have a tangible perpetuating product

the reason i registered as an LTD is because i suspect i will need to seek further investment later down the line and being a sole trader would severely restrict my ablity to raise capital investment

 

[BuzzBuzz]

Sounds exciting, you could ask on Stack about app development and search on there for "building app" "industry app" "how to hire developer" etc

I would agree with this, if things got more serious you can ask for them to sign a non disclosure agreement.

---

Do you know someone who you can trust their judgement in the industry you will be marketing too? That would be a good place to get some feedback on exactly what they would expect from the app.

Good luck with it.

thank you for your comments

i will look into the links you have provided this afternoon

as for the industry im marketing to

its way behind and in severe risk of losing its entire customer base to monopolising entity's , there is no doubt in my mind that unless it can get up to the speed with the age of hyper connectivity then it will become extinct

that's why i believe my app will become a very attractive proposition to both customers and service providers

once you understand that the requirements are fairly obvious although i have done some research anyway

 

[mattk]

My advice is to read a book called The Lean Startup. It always makes me extremely nervous when someone says they need to spend £££ on a app for a completely unproven idea. Yes, you may have come up with the next big thing, but the decaying corpses of apps which litter the information superhighway suggests that your idea is just another which could well turn out to be a costly mistake.

In The Lean Startup it talks about something called the Minimum Viable Product. You need to be looking to develop one of these for your idea so you can test it in real life to see if you have a product people will pay for.

One final question, why do you think you need an app, rather than simply a responsive web site? Requiring an app install is just another barrier to prevent people using your idea. Unless you need some technology which can only be delivered via a native app, I would reconsider this as a requirement.

 

[mattk]

One other final thing, why do you need five quotes? Personally, I would be less concerned about price and more focused on finding a developer who understands my idea, has experience in the field you're working in and who you feel is someone you can work with. Price is secondary to those factors in my opinion.

 

[BuzzBuzz]

websites in my opinion are yesterdays tech and do not allow the same level of connectivity an app does

 

[Mr D]

Creating the app is one thing. Making money from it an entirely different ballgame.
Most apps I've probably never heard of. They may make a massive difference to my business but if I don't hear about them (marketing) then they don't exist for me.

Once you have had the app made presumably you have a plan of how to sell it?

 

[Mr D]

websites in my opinion are yesterdays tech and do not allow the same level of connectivity an app does

Very handy though.

I use both ebay app and ebay website.
99% of the time I use the site, only when travelling in the car do I bother with the app. If parked up I'll use the site.

 

[The Byre]

I still have a host of other things to do
Trademark brand name
Register Web Domains
Set up Business Bank Account ( hope to complete application today )
Create Social Media Handles
Design Logo for brand
Finish APP specification
Retrieve 5 Quotes/ proposals from App Developers ( currently have 1 out of 5 )

You seem to have some sort of gross misunderstanding about what takes to create a future business.

The only tasks that take longer than five minutes in that lot are 'Design Logo' and 'Create App'. Design a logo takes - well, who cares!

So your first task is to create the app. The rest is just bureaucracy.

App? No! The magic App Fairy ain't gonna do it for you! Creating apps is not rocket science and it ain't even brain surgery. It is in fact so easy that thousands of (failed) apps get created every minute!

This is just another "I've got this magic idea!" posting and TBH you are going to have to bring more to the party than an idea.

I'll give you a tip - Hollywood is swarming with scriptwriters and you can always tell if someone is punting a turkey when they tell you that their script and their story concept is so fantastic that they can't tell you what the story is all about. The winners are open and usually have sold their options on the story. The losers can't reveal what they plan - the winners have already!

 

[BuzzBuzz]

You seem to have some sort of gross misunderstanding about what takes to create a future business.

The only tasks that take longer than five minutes in that lot are 'Design Logo' and 'Create App'. Design a logo takes - well, who cares!

So your first task is to create the app. The rest is just bureaucracy.

App? No! The magic App Fairy ain't gonna do it for you! Creating apps is not rocket science and it ain't even brain surgery. It is in fact so easy that thousands of (failed) apps get created every minute!

This is just another "I've got this magic idea!" posting and TBH you are going to have to bring more to the party than an idea.

I'll give you a tip - Hollywood is swarming with scriptwriters and you can always tell if someone is punting a turkey when they tell you that their script and their story concept is so fantastic that they can't tell you what the story is all about. The winners are open and usually have sold their options on the story. The losers can't reveal what they plan - the winners have already!

you've lost me mate

not sure what bedtime stories you've been reading but i never mentioned anything about a magic app fairy ?

the app will take at least 6 months to develop and around 10K if not more

this isn't a flash in the pan APP that will tell you what type of chocolate you are

its going to be an industry game changer

i asked for advice from people that have either developed an app or are developing an app i wasnt really looking for copious amounts of negativity but cheers anyway

 

[BuzzBuzz]

Creating the app is one thing. Making money from it an entirely different ballgame.
Most apps I've probably never heard of. They may make a massive difference to my business but if I don't hear about them (marketing) then they don't exist for me.

Once you have had the app made presumably you have a plan of how to sell it?

well in my experiences are businesses are primarily looking for 2 things

1) money

2) customers

my app in theory will bring them both instantly making an attractive proposition

as far as marketing goes i will be following apples strategy of advertising the benefits & efficiency instead of the actual base product

 

[Mr D]

well in my experiences are businesses are primarily looking for 2 things

1) money

2) customers

my app in theory will bring them both instantly making an attractive proposition

as far as marketing goes i will be following apples strategy of advertising the benefits & efficiency instead of the actual base product

Yes but you have to get to the right person to decide such matters and spend time showing them what benefits you can offer.
While meantime a thousand other people are doing the same for their product or service.

I've a very small business, been running 3 years. I'll get a dozen or more emails in a morning about saving me money, making better profits, reducing time taken etc. I'll get several phone calls trying to offer me the same.
Per day.

Lots of people come up with ideas that will have a big impact. But if they cannot get through to the decision maker and convince them then businesses won't spend the money.
That's where marketing and sales skills come in.

 

[NickGrogan]

the good news being once it is developed it wont need to be developed again meaning i have a tangible perpetuating product

I guess you've never used a mobile phone app?

Andriod and iOS keep releasing new software updates, which are not always backwards compatible. Your great iOS 10 app will not run on an iOS 13 phone, and so on. Check any popular app and you'll see how often it's updated.

Ebays app, not a very complex one, updates about once per month on iOS

the app will take at least 6 months to develop and around 10K if not more

What kind of developer is going to work for 6 months for £10k?

its going to be an industry game changer

OK, but once it's released I can get it copied by another developer, probably in a matter of days/weeks at most.

So apart from spending £10K what protects your business?

 

[fisicx]

websites in my opinion are yesterdays tech and do not allow the same level of connectivity an app does

Websites still have huge reach and will do for many years to come (you are using one right now).

A responsive website that works really well on a phone can be used to test the water at a fraction of the cost of an app.

If the idea you have really is a game changer investors will be queuing up to give your their money. That's when you put money into an app.

as far as marketing goes i will be following apples strategy of advertising the benefits & efficiency instead of the actual base product

Which will eat up your 10K budget before the app has even got past the concept stage.

This isn't being all negative, I've been involved with new business ideas and app development for years. And only one app has ever made any money. All the rest just didn't get the traction required to pay back the investment - mainly due to a lack of marketing funds.

The app is almost secondary to the marketing. Get the marketing right and you can succeed - even with a second rate idea.

 

[billybob99]

Ebays app, not a very complex one, updates about once per month on iOS

eBays app is built using the Flutter SDK and primarily Dart, which makes things easier.

What kind of developer is going to work for 6 months for £10k?

One that isn't going to finish it.

 

[The Byre]

its going to be an industry game changer

I get to hear that on an almost daily basis. Very occasionally, I catch myself saying something very similar and I get to see the glazed look in other people's eyes!

as for the industry im marketing to
its way behind and in severe risk of losing its entire customer base to monopolising entity's , there is no doubt in my mind that unless it can get up to the speed with the age of hyper connectivity then it will become extinct

If it is in danger of disappearing, it is hardly worth creating an app for!

Websites still have huge reach and will do for many years to come (you are using one right now).
A responsive website that works really well on a phone can be used to test the water at a fraction of the cost of an app.

THIS!

A good website will work on any smartphone and you can build a website yourself.

 

[BuzzBuzz]

jesus out of 16 comments only one has offered anything close to something usefull

look websites are fanstastic for selling products on an e-commerce level dont get me wrong

but services unfortunately not so much websites cant use gps they dont have notifications and they dont have anywhere near the level of personalisation an app does

when looking for a service a website still requires you to search, fill boxes in , ring and email people

all stuff which people these days largely cant be bothered to do

im not sure wether its the general age demographic on this site but you lot cant seriously sit there and tell me you believe websites are the future of ecommerce ?

 

[The Byre]

im not sure wether its the general age demographic on this site but you lot cant seriously sit there and tell me you believe websites are the future of ecommerce ?

Well, I am an 'Old Fart' but the two main eCommerce outlets on Planet Earth are websites and every eCommerce sales outlet is also a website. You can view any website on a phone, but apps are only for phones and have to be updated every few months.

Nothing is so dated as The Next Big Thing!

 

[NickGrogan]

but services unfortunately not so much websites cant use gps they dont have notifications and they dont have anywhere near the level of personalisation an app does

Yes they do, yes they do and yes the can.

Here's some actual advice.

Your app will need updating regularly
You will not be able to get a world-changing app built for £10k
You will need a lot more money for marketing
No one is going to steal your great idea, ideas are pretty much worthless. It's the implementation that counts and you don't have the knowledge, skills or time at the moment.

 

[fisicx]

but services unfortunately not so much websites cant use gps they dont have notifications and they dont have anywhere near the level of personalisation an app does

You can do all three with a website.

when looking for a service a website still requires you to search, fill boxes in , ring and email people

Doesn't have to be like this. There are loads of ways to interact with a website.

im not sure wether its the general age demographic on this site but you lot cant seriously sit there and tell me you believe websites are the future of ecommerce ?

Yes, for a very long time they will be.

Nobody is saying you don't eventually need an app. Everyone is just saying to look at alternate ways to test the water before committing what will be a lot of dosh in both development and marketing.

 

[billybob99]

im not sure wether its the general age demographic on this site but you lot cant seriously sit there and tell me you believe websites are the future of ecommerce ?

There are a lot of states about, one of them being mobile commerce will account for 53.3% of all retail ecommerce sales in the US by 2021 - it says mobile, that doesn't mean mobile app.

It's more likely to mean a responsive website.

I'm in the app dev space and from the sounds of it you don't need an app, if anything consider a PWA.

 

[Deleted member 315707]

You can do all three with a website.

This...

 

[Mr D]

Well, I am an 'Old Fart' but the two main eCommerce outlets on Planet Earth are websites and every eCommerce sales outlet is also a website. You can view any website on a phone, but apps are only for phones and have to be updated every few months.

Nothing is so dated as The Next Big Thing!

Yes, those apps on tablets and computers are so rare.

Sure they need updating? Is that like how computers need updating but work perfectly fine without updating?

People often buy using apps. Often watch or listen to things in an app.
Still as you say using websites too.

 

[Mr D]

when looking for a service a website still requires you to search, fill boxes in , ring and email people

Are there apps out there that allow me to find a plumber in a town a hundred miles away from me without having to search or fill boxes in?
Took me 10 seconds to find someone suitable on google website. Must have been another 20 seconds to book the visit. Autofill is nice.
My job done, 30 seconds of using websites. Took longer for my sister to call me to ask me to do it.

 

[crackerjackcommerce]

Mobile Friendly was a big key phrase (still is) but now Mobile First is becoming the next big phrase.

My interpretation of mobile first is:

Not only is the "app/website" mobile device friendly, but is the actual service/offering mobile proof. This is where apps in their current form often are more user friendly then a website. i.e. turn on kettle using an app, book doctors appointment with the app. Quick fast semi-automated, programmable action unique to the user.

However, like many have said above, it does depend on the quality/functionality of the app.

well in my experiences are businesses are primarily looking for 2 things

1) money

2) customers

1a) making money
1b) saving money

2a) happy regular customers
2b) more customers

Best regards.

 

[fisicx]

People often buy using apps. Often watch or listen to things in an app.
Still as you say using websites too.

And this is the key part. People use both.

@BuzzBuzz - build the website, test the functionality, get feedback and then go to market. If you get lots of people signing up you can then invest in the app. It would use the same database and work in exactly the same way as the website. Which means someone looking for something can use the website on their PC or tablet or download and install the app on their tablet and phone.

 

[Mr D]

What is really needed as an app is some method of making mobile phones secure.
Then maybe we'd see more app use.

 

[The Byre]

There are a lot of states about, one of them being mobile commerce will account for 53.3% of all retail ecommerce sales in the US by 2021 - it says mobile, that doesn't mean mobile app.
It's more likely to mean a responsive website.
I'm in the app dev space and from the sounds of it you don't need an app, if anything consider a PWA.

THIS!

Young @billybob99 may still be in short trousers and saving up for his first bicycle, but in this, he obviously knows what he is talking about. Google Devs has a whole series of aids you can read through on PWAs -

https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals?hl=en

https://developers.google.com/web/progressive-web-apps

 

[BuzzBuzz]

i will do my research into PWA's and see what i can dig up

 

[mattk]

My advice is don't be wedded to the idea of an app. Use the best tool for the job. That may be an app, but there are some serious downsides, which people have articulated.

You should be telling your developer what you want to achieve, not how to achieve it. That is their area of specialism. Unless you have market research which shows a clear preference, then keep an open mind.

 

[Craig3141]

Hi Buzz x 2,
You can build and market the app as a sole trader, you don't even need a website.

How does that work? Can you generate enough trust to get customer £ without a website?

I guess you've never used a mobile phone app?

Andriod and iOS keep releasing new software updates, which are not always backwards compatible.

What kind of developer is going to work for 6 months for £10k?

Whereas your mobile phone browser can still parse the ARPA cache and could read a website that hadn't been updated since the dawn of the internet.

You would have to request desktop mode, and it wouldn't be mobile responsive, but it would work.

The kind of developer you would het at that price? My bet? A Down on his luck Nigerian undergrad with low grades.

Oh and the analytical engine ran native applications or "apps" and so did the Lunar Lander with all 2.5 kilobytes of memory.

If anything it's the website that is the new tech. Native is just a return to pre-web approach.

 

[gpietersz]

On top of this I have very little experience in APP development I have outlined how I plan for the APP to operate and what technologies will be required but that’s about as far as my capabilities will stretch at the moment

That is a bad sign. Its is an often repeated bit of advice that execution is more important than good ideas to a startup and I believe it - I have seen a lot of businesses for whom technology is critical make mistakes because they do not have a deep understanding of a core part of their business.

Can you find a partner who does have experience of apps development?

build the website, test the functionality, get feedback and then go to market. If you get lots of people signing up you can then invest in the app. It would use the same database and work in exactly the same way as the website.

Not only that, you can use the website to provide the backend for the app, and have a lot of common code. The web site and the app can be just front ends to shared functionality. Depending on what your idea is, they may even be fairly thin wrappers around a common core reducing development costs.

Its common to have a web app that both generates pages for a site and a server API used by the app. I have worked on a few systems that do this. In some cases the site and the app provide the same functionality, in others different functionality of for different groups of people. For example, if you have an app connection suppliers that are business and customers who are consumers you might find the former will want to use a website (because its more productive to use a computer in the office) while the latter will use the mobile app.

 

[gpietersz]

but services unfortunately not so much websites cant use gps they dont have notifications and they dont have anywhere near the level of personalisation an app does

Yes, websites can do location and notifications.

The other advantage is that people do not have to install a website. Its much easier to persuade people to try a website. People will only install an app if they think they will use it.

Its possible that what you plan might make that work, but we do not know.

You should also not be too secretive. I am not suggesting you broadcast your ideas on this forum or elsewhere in the net. You should probably discuss it with people who know the industry though.

 

[billybob99]

i will do my research into PWA's and see what i can dig up

Just check out some real examples like this and this and then some more here.

 

[The Byre]

Told ya!

 

[merchado]

@BuzzBuzz

Read every post since your rant. They are all correct.

You came here for advice because you weren’t sure what would be required to turn your idea in to a legitimate business.

When the advice didn’t match your frankly uneducated (which is the reason that you’re here in the first place) view, you executed a volte-face. Suddenly, you were/are an expert in the exact field for which you were seeking advice.

Forget the app. Use your limited funds to commission a responsive website.

Don’t talk sh*t about things of which you have no knowledge. A website will easily fulfill your sketchy requirements.

Don’t lecture people in an industry - most of whom have years of experience - on how the industry lies and where the future is at.

In short, take the advice and prepare to fail. Humbly.

 

[BuzzBuzz]

@BuzzBuzz

Read every post since your rant. They are all correct.

You came here for advice because you weren’t sure what would be required to turn your idea in to a legitimate business.

When the advice didn’t match your frankly uneducated (which is the reason that you’re here in the first place) view, you executed a volte-face. Suddenly, you were/are an expert in the exact field for which you were seeking advice.

Forget the app. Use your limited funds to commission a responsive website.

Don’t talk sh*t about things of which you have no knowledge. A website will easily fulfill your sketchy requirements.

Don’t lecture people in an industry - most of whom have years of experience - on how the industry lies and where the future is at.

In short, take the advice and prepare to fail. Humbly.

no i came here for advice on app development and received a large volume of negative and provocative comments largely similar to your own

unfortunately the thread then quickly descended into a debate on web efficiency in future eCommerce

some interesting points made but most are largely irrelevant to my original post

im unsure if i would consider posting any other topics this forum as it generally seems pessimistic and restrictive

 

[The Byre]

We get that a lot! People ask a question about a topic they know little or nothing about. They are told that they are barking up the wrong tree (e.g. wanting to develop an app when a website will do the same thing) and they regard that as being negative and unhelpful.

If you stop to think about it, quite the opposite has happened - you now know what you have to do - create a so-called PWA as suggested by @billybob99.