App Development , Looking for some guidance

[gpietersz]

im unsure if i would consider posting any other topics this forum as it generally seems pessimistic and restrictive

We are being realistic, rather than pessimistic. A lot of this is based on experience. I have lost money making similar mistakes, an employer closed down making similar mistakes, many clients have made similar mistakes.

You are getting into a generally tough line of business. Ideas come easily, execution is hard.

You are being quite secretive so you can only get very generic answers. You have 10k to cover paying someone to develop an app, and a back end (most apps aimed at business require a backend - maybe yours is an exception?) and to market it? We have no idea how much you need to spend on each. We do not know whether you need to support iOS or Android, or both, or whether you need desktop apps as well - and if you do whether you can develop cross platform or whether you need to write everything separately for each.

You have actually got quite a lot of useful advice, such as starting with an MVP, to consider developing a website instead (especially as you seem to have gone for an app because you think websites cannot do location or notifications), and so on.

 

[BuzzBuzz]

you are correct @gpietersz there has been some useful points made but for some reason many have decided to present their perspectives in a hostile manner

i agree a minimum viable product would be nice but the principal is difficult to apply to this industry its hard to know where to draw the line between an experiment and a product

i know for a fact if i was a consumer and was looking at a piece of software that was specifically designed to make mine and my customers lives easier and i came across a MVP that only did half of what i really needed it too i would be reluctant to use it again

in answer to your other questions my app would likely need to have IOS & Android mobile capability there is no requirement for a desktop version

i would be marketing it and have developed a few strategies for this

i still standby in what i said with websites not being as interactive or personalised as apps and that is my main put off at the moment

 

[gpietersz]

i came across a MVP that only did half of what i really needed it too i would be reluctant to use it agai

That would not be an MVP - because it would not be viable. The point is that very often most people use only a subset of functionality most of the time so most people will be satisfied. You start with something useful but with no frills (sometimes its even better that way - easier to use and understand).

Even if you lose some customers, it can be worth it because you get money coming in faster and you get feedback on what is wrong with it. People fail far more often by putting their money into building a full but wrong product than by releasing a product missing some features. There is a lot to be said for "release early, release often".

 

[fisicx]

You will need a website.

Someone has to administer the content and user accounts and you can’t do this so easily via an app.

If you aren’t creating user accounts and tracking those users you won’t make any money.

You say you don’t need a desktop version but people like to test things and look at screenshots and so on. And your marketing needs to point somewhere, if it just goes to the App Store you will get a poor uptake.

You say that websites aren’t personal enough, I’m building a web app for a client right now that identifies their location, shows relevant data and notifies them of updates. If they give me their name the apps remembers them. There is also a button to add an icon to their phone homepage.

 

[gpietersz]

Yes, @fisicx , but as you often point out a site just for marketing can be built cheaply.

 

[BuzzBuzz]

You say that websites aren’t personal enough, I’m building a web app for a client right now that identifies their location, shows relevant data and notifies them of updates. If they give me their name the apps remembers them. There is also a button to add an icon to their phone homepage.

yes i will need a website to showcase my concept ,

this is interesting what is the cost of this type of progressive web app ?

 

[The Byre]

this is interesting what is the cost of this type of progressive web app ?

Somewhere between £0 and £1m depending on the scope of the project.

As it sounds as if it may be fairly ambitious, probably a few thousand.

 

[fisicx]

yes i will need a website to showcase my concept ,

this is interesting what is the cost of this type of progressive web app ?

This is very specific to a locality in the USA and is costing the client under $1000. It uses a lot of standard APIs to keep the cost down. But once we have done some market testing we can develop the concept. But not me - this is going to need people with far more skills than I have and they are budgeting $100K.

As I keep saying, build your idea into a website, iron out all the wrinkles, test different user paths, trial alternate screens and displays and find out what people like. Then build an app if needed.

 

[Bronco78th]

Software Dev is hell if you don't know what your doing. Im finding it hell even if I have some idea what im doing.

We all have that situation, where you want to push things further and are reluctant to show off an unfinished or early prototype, thats natural, im going through the same now.

Heres my journey (experience) that your looking to embark on....

My product is aimed at a niche market. My research suggests people will use it within the industry, The feedback from my research has been overwhelmingly "that would be great...i can't see how your going to pull it off though!". Its a training tool and a solution to a growing problem that is facing the industry in question.

It has no competition at all....this seems good but, actually my market research is weakened.... I have no companies to monitor usage figures of similar software to gauge realistic user numbers, no accounts on companies house to troll through to pick up the indicators of what money is or could be made from the project...all i have to go off is other companies making industry specific software in the niche unrelated to my idea.

Ive concluded Noone has done it because the technology just hasn't been there until recent years. My project brings those technology elements together to solve an industry wide problem and I now have a working prototype.....the theory has worked....its rough as all hell and 'bugged to jiggery' but shows potential.

I need to do more work to tidy it up, make it a proper prototype that I can present to the industry, fix some of the bigger issues and all of that on an ever decreasing budget. Most of this i can now do myself as the real complex stuff is settled.

Most of the work on this project has been outsourced, I come from a software background but the tech stuff is far beyond my capabilities to make work....hence where my spending has gone....and it sounds like you maybe on the same road.

So your probably wondering how much ive sunk into this app based gamble?

I had a meeting with my accountant last week to sign off the figures and 26k is where I stand.....more than double your own budget.

The moral is when it comes to software....take what you think something costs then double it. I expected from my own knowledge id be about 20k down at this point.....so slightly over in reality.

This ironically is a side project....I work on it in my spare time....while doing the day job. Yes I have literally no live

Just thought id share my own experience and the black hole you maybe heading down.

Just be prepared for alot of stress...anxiety...questioning yourself and the possibility of failure at the end with no return at all on your investment.

 

[Mr D]

no i came here for advice on app development and received a large volume of negative and provocative comments largely similar to your own

unfortunately the thread then quickly descended into a debate on web efficiency in future eCommerce

some interesting points made but most are largely irrelevant to my original post

im unsure if i would consider posting any other topics this forum as it generally seems pessimistic and restrictive

Well we could tell you what you want to hear.
But that does not help you at all apart from a confidence boost.

I'm sure there will be forums where the users just tell people what they want to hear. Luckily here people do tell you what you need to hear instead. Sweetness and light, try a sugar company and lighting specialist.
Experience, honesty, multiple ideas, this forum is pretty good.

 

[gpietersz]

Experience, honesty, multiple ideas, this forum is pretty good.

Tact, not so much.

 

[mattk]

i agree a minimum viable product would be nice but the principal is difficult to apply to this industry its hard to know where to draw the line between an experiment and a product

i know for a fact if i was a consumer and was looking at a piece of software that was specifically designed to make mine and my customers lives easier and i came across a MVP that only did half of what i really needed it too i would be reluctant to use it again

That is NOT what a minimum viable product is. Your MVP should not lack features, what it should lack is all the complex backend technology which makes it fully automated and costs the big bucks to develop.

Your MVP should be a simply front end which offers your customer all the features, but behind the scenes is a team of minimum wage hacks who are frantically making it work using pipe cleaners and bluetac. What does this give you? It shows that there is a market for your product and most importantly it is CHEAP to implement.

Does it scale? Of course not, but if you find yourself with thousands of users, then invest the £££ is a fully automated technical solution.

 

[gpietersz]

That is NOT what a minimum viable product is. Your MVP should not lack features

Yes, it should lack features. Some successful businesses have started with almost no features or even stuff that did not work: https://ecommerce-platforms.com/art...um-viable-products-from-dropbox-buffer-airbnb

Those are extreme examples, but I cannot find a definition that says anything different. I

The point is not just that an MVP is cheap, it lets you get feedback from real customers much earlier.

 

[billybob99]

Yes, it should lack features. Some successful businesses have started with almost no features or even stuff that did not work: https://ecommerce-platforms.com/art...um-viable-products-from-dropbox-buffer-airbnb

Those are extreme examples, but I cannot find a definition that says anything different. I

The point is not just that an MVP is cheap, it lets you get feedback from real customers much earlier.

Pretty much this.

A minimum viable product is something that has just about enough features to satisfy early customers and prove that there's a demand for it, which basically gives you confirmation it's actually worth building it.

 

[gpietersz]

The moral is when it comes to software....take what you think something costs then double it. I expected from my own knowledge id be about 20k down at this point.....so slightly over in reality.

Very good advice. Software development costs are hard to predict because it is an R & D activity. There are some things that are pretty routine, but a lot requires thought, trying what works, etc.

Also, this from XKCD https://xkcd.com/1425/ :

Although the hard part is probably easier now than in used to be.....

Incidentally, the image is Creative Commons licensed and the site allows hot linking so there are not problems with my inserting it here.

 

[Shani365]

Hi

I’ve developed a concept that will require an app , the app wont particularly be doing anything revolutionary tech wise but it will be destined to shake an entire industry up if I get the branding right it could easily go global once established

I have completed most of my business plan , done some market research, thought of the brand name, registered the company as an ltd and have secured up to 10K in funding

I still have a host of other things to do

I.E

Trademark brand name
Register Web Domains
Set up Business Bank Account ( hope to complete application today )
Create Social Media Handles
Design Logo for brand
Finish APP specification
Retrieve 5 Quotes/ proposals from App Developers ( currently have 1 out of 5 )


Probably loads of other stuff I haven’t even thought of yet and I have felt slightly overwhelmed this week I work full time 37 hours a week and although I have some capacity in work to work towards my project in office hours I still need to complete my day job to a satisfactory standard or I will gain unwanted attention from colleagues / boss

On top of this I have very little experience in APP development I have outlined how I plan for the APP to operate and what technologies will be required but that’s about as far as my capabilities will stretch at the moment


he area in which I live isn’t incredibly tech orientated apps are still seen as futuristic and most app developers are at a minimum a 2 hour drive to meet in person , I am also apprehensive about dishing out the entire concept freely through email / social media to potential app developers


Just looking for some guidance on what to do next really or if anyone has experience in developing an APP

thanks

Hi,

I have been developing server and iOS/Android/Symbian mobile apps for over 9 years now, the cost of an app depends upon many things, do you want app for both platforms or can you live with only android application for now? If you app is simple and does not require anything complex you can go for ReactNative cross platform development instead of going native, this will save you some money and you will have to write one piece of code and you will get 2 applications. Another thing is a server, does your app require a server? if yes it will add up to your cost, server is where you will be saving the details of your app users and other data required by the app after login.

 

[crackerjackcommerce]

Hi, I know this thread was a few weeks ago however a few days ago this website came up in conversation and I thought of this thread on UKBF so wanted to post it as it might help.

https://buildfire.com/

"Build powerful custom mobile apps for iOS & Android using our intuitive and easy to use mobile app builder. "

Something to note, and I think this was also mentioned above, a developer said to me that you will always need security and a database - not sure how buildfire deals with all that and also if you launch with them you will always be using their ecosystem. But, it could be good for you to "play with" and get a "proof of concept".

 

[gpietersz]

Buildfire cannot let you do more than a tiny fraction of the things you could do by coding an app. If you at the docs it seems akin to a website builder but wraps up the functionality in an app.

If your requirements are really simple it will save money up front, but you then have to pay a fee of $600/year upwards depending what features you need and what limits you can live with in terms of numbers of downloads and notifications sent.