Anyone else against normalised WFH?

[SortaFinance]

The pandemic has inadvertently started a massive work-from-home experiment, and the worst part is that employers and employees alike seem to endorse this new normal. This worries me as I am only a little over two years into my career and I really enjoy the office environment, for productivity as well as the social benefits.

Anyone else feel this way? Working from home is convenient say if you have a doctor's appointment or have a tradesman coming to fix something in your home, but I couldn't do it long-term. Too many distractions and an overall lack of routine kills any appeal of being employed for me.

 

[Mr D]

I do more at home. Compared to my last office job I can get 3 times as much done at home in the same number of hours. Lot less interruptions at home compared to the office job.

 

[Alison Moore]

I think mot offices will gradually go back to normal with most staff working from the office. Bosses tend to like staff nearby so they can ask them to do things, see what they're working on or call impromptu meetings. Plus most people don't work very well from home, so in a few months time, the businesses will start evaluating how much work has been done from home, and they'll find not very much, and call everyone back to the office.

I've been working from home for part of the week for 15 years, so I know how hard it is to keep motivated. I have a strict routine for my working day which helps.

 

[fisicx]

I think there will be a mix. Some people work better from home some need supervision.

I hated working in an office with others. I found the idle chit chat and endless gossiping a distraction. Working from home is far more productive for me.

 

[Paul Norman]

It is a deeply subjective thing. Some people love it. Some people hate it.

I am certainly not against it - it saves time, fuel, trees, polar bears, and it creates flexibility.

But it doesn't work if, for example, you are a train driver. Well, not yet, anyway.

Interestly (or not), I am back in my office. In a building with about 60 businesses, all but 5 are back now. 3 of the 5 are not coming back - sadly they didn't survive. I have not heard about the other 2

 

[Philip Hoyle]

I can't see WFH becoming the "norm" for everyone at all. There will be, as there has been for decades, some people/firms where WFH works for them. In one of the first firms I worked at back in the 80's we had one woman (out of maybe 20 staff) who worked from home. She came in one morning a week to bring back work she'd done, take away work to do, and catch up with the other staff etc. That was 30 years ago. It worked for her and for the firm. From the last I heard, she's still doing it now, 30 years later!

What I do think will happen is more flexibility on both sides and people choosing jobs where the working location suits them, i.e. if someone wants to work mostly from home, then they'll seek out employers who'll allow it. Likewise people who prefer office life will seek out jobs that aren't so hot on WFH. Inflexible employers/employees may well struggle.

It will be an evolving situation. Like anything else, the pendulum may well swing (have swung) too far to WFH and may well swing back, maybe too far to office life again, but will end up settling somewhere in the middle where it works for everyone.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

I had a holiday job once working in an office when I was 15. Haven't worked in an office since. This really is something which can be phased out.

 

[jimbof]

For me it was a bit of a pain in the rear. I have my own office in a large building which has a lot of my lab equipment in it, so working from home was limited to CAD work. Without building something in my garden I couldn't feasibly have the space required to WFH on a permanent basis. Now it has become less frowned on to be back in the office (it was hard to self-justify my work as being essential really) I'm back in the office more or less full time - getting there about 10.30-11am so I can do a stint on the homeschool front before I leave home.

If the schools can't get back to fully open in Sept I can see we'll be stuck WFH for much longer for no other reason than having to look after our kids. Luckily my wife's work are unlikely to go back to the office any time soon, so she's stuck WFH for the forseeable and I can escape...

 

[Mr D]

For me it was a bit of a pain in the rear. I have my own office in a large building which has a lot of my lab equipment in it, so working from home was limited to CAD work. Without building something in my garden I couldn't feasibly have the space required to WFH on a permanent basis. Now it has become less frowned on to be back in the office (it was hard to self-justify my work as being essential really) I'm back in the office more or less full time - getting there about 10.30-11am so I can do a stint on the homeschool front before I leave home.

If the schools can't get back to fully open in Sept I can see we'll be stuck WFH for much longer for no other reason than having to look after our kids. Luckily my wife's work are unlikely to go back to the office any time soon, so she's stuck WFH for the forseeable and I can escape...

Yes, those of us without kids rather miss the problems that kids in the house can cause with WFH.

 

[Instamixes]

No, I am not against WFH. It helps to get you and your family secure from this pandemic Covid 19.
If you get full salary from your organization then I don't think WFH is so bad.

 

[Stas Lawicki]

Long term I don't think wfh is the miracle some people think it is. Many will be severely disadvantaged by wfh. Kids at home, no desk or office space, poor broadband or phone provision, the need for social interaction, the lack of human contact at work. I said before cv that the workplace was struggling with a lack of humanity and too much reliance on emails and non-verbal comms. Zoom isn't the same.

The office is a leveller and can be a great place to collaborate. For those perched on the end of their bed, hunched over getting bad backs, not able to sleep or escape their work because it's in their face 24/7, it then comes down to businesses considering it's not the holy grail for many. This reason alone should be enough to not make it a blanket policy. Sure, a garden office with fibre broadband and the latest kit would be lovely if you didn't need other's input. For those without the basics, it's a nightmare.

I fully suspect plenty of companies who are currently offering perm wfh (mainly to save costs) will see productivity suffer and realise it doesn't work for everyone. The office hasn't gone anywhere beacaue it clearly can't and won't suit everyone.

P. S. I've wfh for 8 years!

 

[ville1401]

I think a lot of big firms will now be looking at their expensive massive London offices and associated lease costs in a new light, given how many of their staff have very successfully worked from home.
I know a lot of city workers, and while quite a few miss the gossip and social aspect of the office, they unaminously found they actually got a lot more done and were much more efficient at home, especially zoom meetings over travelling. Plus they all found themselves with more time and more money!

 

[Mr D]

I think a lot of big firms will now be looking at their expensive massive London offices and associated lease costs in a new light, given how many of their staff have very successfully worked from home.
I know a lot of city workers, and while quite a few miss the gossip and social aspect of the office, they unaminously found they actually got a lot more done and were much more efficient at home, especially zoom meetings over travelling. Plus they all found themselves with more time and more money!

Over time it will change where people live too.

Currently the ability to get transport into the workplace is a factor in deciding where to live.
If that factor becomes irrelevant then living within a distance of a train station / bus stop for a particular service does not matter.

 

[Scalloway]

Instead the availability of good broadband will become an important factor. Living in the remoter areas of the UK has its attractions but it is not much use if using a carrier pigeon is quicker for sharing files than the internet.

 

[tony84]

Each to their own, but it isnt for me.
I have a 3 year old and there are too many distractions.

My normal routine is to go to work and as soon as I have finished my work for the day, I come home and do what I want.

 

[billybob99]

Work from home or live at work, its all the same.

 

[Mr D]

Work from home or live at work, its all the same.

Maybe for you. Others can separate work and home.
My office is in the dining room - I watch TV and have dinner in the lounge. Different rooms, different times.

Unless prior arrangement any calls on my work phone after working hours get ignored. If work needs me urgently the need has to be mutual.

 

[mattk]

Work from home or live at work, its all the same.

It really isn't. As long as you have work space you can step away from, even if this is a kitchen table that you clear at the end of the "working" day, it is easy to have a clear separation between work and life.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

I think the numbers working from home for most companies will be only a tiny percentage. more likely is the reduction of staff, as managers take more time to analyse the jobs people do

You may be able to supervise individuals at home but more than likely at far higher cost and far less effective

It;s fair to consider accounts departments working away from the office and data becomes more electronic, but those departments are relatively small

What jobs do you consider firms could off load to home workers without effecting the smooth running of the company

 

[Mr D]

What jobs do you consider firms could off load to home workers without effecting the smooth running of the company

Admin
Sales
Switchboard
PA
Senior management
Directors

 

[mattk]

You may be able to supervise individuals at home but more than likely at far higher cost and far less effective

What makes you say that? I think if anything it is easier to manage home workers because the focus will be on productive output. In the office there is more focus on presenteeism, which of course is not the same as doing productive work.

In terms of leading, one-to-ones can be conducted over video call, which while not as personal as a face to face interaction, certainly doesn't add cost or reduce effectiveness.

 

[mattk]

Admin
Sales
Switchboard
PA
Senior management
Directors

Finance
HR
Marketing
IT

In fact, other than physical security, cleaning and catering, I'm struggling to think of roles which couldn't be done from home.

 

[jimbof]

Finance
HR
Marketing
IT

In fact, other than physical security, cleaning and catering, I'm struggling to think of roles which couldn't be done from home.

I guess it depends on what work looks like to you. My desk day to day is a lab bench full of electronics equipment; not practical to expect someone to be able to accommodate such things within their home.

 

[Mr D]

I guess it depends on what work looks like to you. My desk day to day is a lab bench full of electronics equipment; not practical to expect someone to be able to accommodate such things within their home.

Garage work?

However many jobs are mostly desk based - so the desk portion is possible to do at home.

Or not even with a desk. My sister is working from home (isolating) - the employer wanted to supply a laptop, a desk and a chair but all she can fit in is the laptop.
She works from the kitchen counter, packs up laptop to prepare dinner.

No room in the house for a desk.

 

[Alison Moore]

I think the trouble with asking this question in this forum is that a lot of people answering will be business owners and part of the reason why they will have set up in business is that they prefer to work for themselves, often on their own. If the question was asked in a more 'employee' related forum, I think you'd find the answers were quite different. So many people I know love the hustle and bustle of the office or workplace, with the gossip and camaraderie that goes with it and are really struggling working at home with only limited human interaction.

 

[SillyBill]

I think the trouble with asking this question in this forum is that a lot of people answering will be business owners and part of the reason why they will have set up in business is that they prefer to work for themselves, often on their own. If the question was asked in a more 'employee' related forum, I think you'd find the answers were quite different. So many people I know love the hustle and bustle of the office or workplace, with the gossip and camaraderie that goes with it and are really struggling working at home with only limited human interaction.

I guess there are limitations to anecdotal experience as virtually everyone I have spoken to is loving it at home so conclusions are better drawn on bigger datasets I guess.

FWIW I don't think there will be a WFH revolution as it were but is reasonably likely that WFH will increase in % terms as a result of this pandemic. At a total guess I'd say a permanent 5% increase in the cumulative annualised UK number of WFH days once we're normalised...wouldn't surprise me at all. And in the grand scheme of things that'd be a big move. From a traffic perspective you'd notice it, at peak hours just a 2-3% decrease in traffic can make huge differences. So I'd say this is a positive thing given a small % of the UK population that can WFH very effectively but has been blocked from doing it may well have been given their once-in-a-generation opportunity to prove the business model.

 

[Mr D]

I guess there are limitations to anecdotal experience as virtually everyone I have spoken to is loving it at home so conclusions are better drawn on bigger datasets I guess.

FWIW I don't think there will be a WFH revolution as it were but is reasonably likely that WFH will increase in % terms as a result of this pandemic. At a total guess I'd say a permanent 5% increase in the cumulative annualised UK number of WFH days once we're normalised...wouldn't surprise me at all. And in the grand scheme of things that'd be a big move. From a traffic perspective you'd notice it, at peak hours just a 2-3% decrease in traffic can make huge differences. So I'd say this is a positive thing given a small % of the UK population that can WFH very effectively but has been blocked from doing it may well have been given their once-in-a-generation opportunity to prove the business model.

Knock on effects.

Those businesses that support workers up to this year will have reduced custom.
The newsagent by the train station. The sandwich shop round the corner from the big office block. The coffee shop. Greggs. Taxis.

Impact on support businesses when they lose a small percentage of their customers? May be considerable. Losing some of the people who spent the most.
Rather than doing £10k a day turnover, doing 8k - with the same basic costs. Difference between a business branch being profitable or not may only be a couple of percent of customers.

 

[Aniela]

I do hope that a vast majority of people working from home does not become the norm.

Working from home isn't suitable for the average person and will come with severe mental health issues. It looks and sounds good on paper, but the average person doing it long term, should not happen.

The Isolation and lack of social interaction that comes with working from home, (zoom calls don't really count), are not the way forward for our society.

 

[Mr D]

I do hope that a vast majority of people working from home does not become the norm.

Working from home isn't suitable for the average person and will come with severe mental health issues. It looks and sounds good on paper, but the average person doing it long term, should not happen.

The Isolation and lack of social interaction that comes with working from home, (zoom calls don't really count), are not the way forward for our society.

Umm.... hate to tell you. It has happened.
Employers can now figure out if they have the right staff for home working or if they need some different staff. Because as you say not everyone does well with it.

Isolation and lack of social interaction are open to question. Not being interrupted all the time by people demanding stuff or gossiping is a plus. An extrovert may need far more involvement with staff than an introvert.

Those businesses that want to keep costs down, that do work which can be done at home, they'll keep the staff that can work from home and replace the ones that cannot or keep them in some office capacity in a smaller than would otherwise have office.

Those businesses that prefer having staff around, that don't want more than a small fraction working from home, they'll be looking for the staff that want to be in the office.

Which one (or indeed any other business model) you choose to do is down to you. Or what employment you decide to chase as an employee is up to you.
Virus wise you are much safer at home. Household bills wise you are likely a lower cost at a workplace where heating and lighting during the day is someone else's problem.

Plenty of people do work separately from others much of the time. Sales reps, call centre staff, cleaners, one man businesses. Installers may work separately.

 

[Aniela]

Umm.... hate to tell you. It has happened.
Employers can now figure out if they have the right staff for home working or if they need some different staff. Because as you say not everyone does well with it.

Isolation and lack of social interaction are open to question. Not being interrupted all the time by people demanding stuff or gossiping is a plus. An extrovert may need far more involvement with staff than an introvert.

Those businesses that want to keep costs down, that do work which can be done at home, they'll keep the staff that can work from home and replace the ones that cannot or keep them in some office capacity in a smaller than would otherwise have office.

Those businesses that prefer having staff around, that don't want more than a small fraction working from home, they'll be looking for the staff that want to be in the office.

Which one (or indeed any other business model) you choose to do is down to you. Or what employment you decide to chase as an employee is up to you.
Virus wise you are much safer at home. Household bills wise you are likely a lower cost at a workplace where heating and lighting during the day is someone else's problem.

Plenty of people do work separately from others much of the time. Sales reps, call centre staff, cleaners, one man businesses. Installers may work separately.

There's so much wrong with that post that I'm not going to even waste my time breaking it down. Complete lack of understanding of human nature and people in general.

Is there a way to block seeing certain users posts on this forum?

 

[SillyBill]

Umm.... hate to tell you. It has happened.
Employers can now figure out if they have the right staff for home working or if they need some different staff. Because as you say not everyone does well with it.

Isolation and lack of social interaction are open to question. Not being interrupted all the time by people demanding stuff or gossiping is a plus. An extrovert may need far more involvement with staff than an introvert.

Agreed. If working from home is a mental health concern then working from the office also has to be a mental health concern. So far as I see it we divide into extroverts and introverts. Introverts don't much like the status quo of open plan offices (which affects their mental health) and probably prefer majority work from home. Extroverts don't much like working from home (which affects their mental health) and likely prefer the open plan office. So jumped from one extreme to the other arguably.

Personally as nearer to the introvert type than extrovert I love working independently, majority independent work with a little bit interaction with customers/colleagues occasionally would suit me down to the ground.

 

[Mr D]

There's so much wrong with that post that I'm not going to even waste my time breaking it down. Complete lack of understanding of human nature and people in general.

Is there a way to block seeing certain users posts on this forum?

Or simply a better understanding of humans - and business - than you.

Yes you can block posters you do not want to read. Create your own echo chamber.

 

[Mr D]

Agreed. If working from home is a mental health concern then working from the office also has to be a mental health concern. So far as I see it we divide into extroverts and introverts. Introverts don't much like the status quo of open plan offices (which affects their mental health) and probably prefer majority work from home. Extroverts don't much like working from home (which affects their mental health) and likely prefer the open plan office. So jumped from one extreme to the other arguably.

Personally as nearer to the introvert type than extrovert I love working independently, majority independent work with a little bit interaction with customers/colleagues occasionally would suit me down to the ground.

I prefer working from home. Among other things I can take dog for a walk, or go lie down, or start dinner.

Some of the most annoying places I have worked the managers were the biggest impediment to working. Away from managers the job went a lot smoother and more productive.
Working from home, if bosses try too many needless interruptions they find the calls do not connect....

 

[billybob99]

Been WFH for 10+ years, sane as a nut.

Nothing like making a fry up whilst on the phone to a client.

 

[mattk]

I do hope that a vast majority of people working from home does not become the norm.

Working from home isn't suitable for the average person and will come with severe mental health issues. It looks and sounds good on paper, but the average person doing it long term, should not happen.

The Isolation and lack of social interaction that comes with working from home, (zoom calls don't really count), are not the way forward for our society.

I hate to break it to you, but going into an office isn't social interaction. When a colleague asks "did you have a nice weekend?" they don't really give a toss about whether you had a nice weekend or not. They are just being polite. It's all fake.

In fact, I'd say that by not having to go to an office to work or a supermarket to shop, this actually frees up people's time to spend on genuinely quality experiences, which are far more beneficial to both mental and physical wellbeing.

 

[fisicx]

There's so much wrong with that post that I'm not going to even waste my time breaking it down. Complete lack of understanding of human nature and people in general.

In your opinion. Just because it’s counter to your thinking doesn’t mean it’s wrong for everyone.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Is there a way to block seeing certain users posts on this forum?

Yes. Join the queue. Many of us have blocked the troll, Mr D.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

As we are all either running a business or have been, perhaps the question should be

How many of you will have home workers working for you permanently from now on.i.e you are converted to letting your staff work full time from their homes

This should give a good cross selection of industries even if they are small units

Of the 9 people I used to employ,I could not see any advantage to the company, of not having them working at the office, and no savings in rented space, we would not move to a smaller unit even if a couple of people were not office based

 

[Mr D]

Yes. Join the queue. Many of us have blocked the troll, Mr D.

Yes he calls me a troll for pointing out his false statements, his made up figures and his claims that are counter to published figures.

 

[Aniela]

Yes he calls me a troll for pointing out his false statements, his made up figures and his claims that are counter to published figures.

I think he calls you a troll because it appears you're never actually posting your opinion. Rather you see what is being said and just say anything that counters it. Not for any other reason but to troll.

With the amount of posts you do daily, it would seem impossible that you have any sort of proper business, so the replies are just there to annoy and troll people and kill your time.