Anybody dealt with 'PaymentSense' Merchant Co???

H

HawthornCraft

Hi,

We use them, we have fixed costs and their customer service (for us) has been great. They set us up in 3 days originally and haven't had any issues. At the time they were definitely the cheapest we were quoted as well and cheaper by far than any of the banks.

Hope that helps!
Hawthorn
 
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Yep,
they aren't a bad company. quick turnaround and cheap rates. However,you'll be tied into a five year contract so I would advise taking the figures back to your current provider before signing

Can I just ask, as a general question to something I get a lot with being in the same business as PaymentSense... If your current provider has been overcharging you for X number of years, and someone spends their time to come in and try to help your business save money (admittedly, yes, it is sales), why would you want to give your current, overcharging provider, the chance to keep your business? It really confuses me. In life, if something is cheaper elsewhere, with the same or similar level of service, I'll use the cheaper alternative. I'm not saying that I don't just stick to the cheap things... I always try to buy from independent retailers, who are often more expensive, but have a better level of service. Does the company that has offered you a cheaper, as good service not deserve your business?
 
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Sparx

Free Member
Sep 16, 2010
497
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Can I just ask, as a general question to something I get a lot with being in the same business as PaymentSense... If your current provider has been overcharging you for X number of years, and someone spends their time to come in and try to help your business save money (admittedly, yes, it is sales), why would you want to give your current, overcharging provider, the chance to keep your business? It really confuses me. In life, if something is cheaper elsewhere, with the same or similar level of service, I'll use the cheaper alternative. I'm not saying that I don't just stick to the cheap things... I always try to buy from independent retailers, who are often more expensive, but have a better level of service. Does the company that has offered you a cheaper, as good service not deserve your business?

Now see it from the company's point of view, why would they contact existing customers and say "hey, we fancy lowering our profit margins - do you want a review of your account?" - I think in the merchant services industry, it is more of a "you don't get unless you ask!" sort of thing..

Merchant account providers are always happy to review existing customers accounts when the customer asks, but a company will not want to spend its resources having a team of people contacting their existing base of customers just to lower their total revenue and profit margins..

Similar to Sky, Virgin, BT, etc.. None of them ring you at the end of your TV/Phone contract do they and say "hey, you've been with us a few years, do you want us to lower your monthly rental?" - however on the flip side, if you get a quote from another company and ring up asking to cancel - they somehow come up with "oh well, we'll lower your monthly rental from £35 to £25 p/m if you stay with us!"..

See what I mean? ;)
 
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Now see it from the company's point of view, why would they contact existing customers and say "hey, we fancy lowering our profit margins - do you want a review of your account?" - I think in the merchant services industry, it is more of a "you don't get unless you ask!" sort of thing..

Merchant account providers are always happy to review existing customers accounts when the customer asks, but a company will not want to spend its resources having a team of people contacting their existing base of customers just to lower their total revenue and profit margins..

Similar to Sky, Virgin, BT, etc.. None of them ring you at the end of your TV/Phone contract do they and say "hey, you've been with us a few years, do you want us to lower your monthly rental?" - however on the flip side, if you get a quote from another company and ring up asking to cancel - they somehow come up with "oh well, we'll lower your monthly rental from £35 to £25 p/m if you stay with us!"..

See what I mean? ;)

No, I agree that from a business point of view it's not the best move to contact customers and reduce their rates. But when a merchant is being over charged by £30+ a month, and has been for years, why would you want to be loyal to your current provider?!

I'm not saying that companies should start doing it, and I'm not complaining that they don't... I'm just bemused why anyone would stay with a company that had been overcharging for years. I left BT for that very reason... along with the poor customer service. They offered it to me for cheaper, but they'd missed their chance.
 
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W

windlesham

No, I agree that from a business point of view it's not the best move to contact customers and reduce their rates. But when a merchant is being over charged by £30+ a month, and has been for years, why would you want to be loyal to your current provider?!

I'm not saying that companies should start doing it, and I'm not complaining that they don't... I'm just bemused why anyone would stay with a company that had been overcharging for years. I left BT for that very reason... along with the poor customer service. They offered it to me for cheaper, but they'd missed their chance.

The customer will have one of two options, sign up for paymentsense or a similar provider on a long term contract (usually 4/5 years) Or call their current provider and see if they'll drop their rates. If the latter happens then they have the benefit of low rates and no tie in.

Let's not pretend, you, as a sales person are going in their doing them a favour. You're wrapping them up in a long term contract so don't expect any form of appreciation from a customer.
 
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The customer will have one of two options, sign up for paymentsense or a similar provider on a long term contract (usually 4/5 years) Or call their current provider and see if they'll drop their rates. If the latter happens then they have the benefit of low rates and no tie in.

Let's not pretend, you, as a sales person are going in their doing them a favour. You're wrapping them up in a long term contract so don't expect any form of appreciation from a customer.

A lot of the time when a merchant rings up their current provider, they'll again tie them in, often with the merchant being oblivious to this happening. I say this from experience.

With the product, as a salesman, I do often feel that I'm doing people a favour, saving them hundreds if not thousands of pounds annually. Fair enough, my job is to sell a product, but it's not like I'm selling something that people don't need. Many of my customers see what I'm doing as a favour also, otherwise they wouldn't pass me their friends and families business too... At the end of the day, people not in the industry probably won't understand the product and the pro's and benefits that can come with changing provider. Those who understand, always change, and appreciate.
 
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W

windlesham

A lot of the time when a merchant rings up their current provider, they'll again tie them in, often with the merchant being oblivious to this happening. I say this from experience.

With the product, as a salesman, I do often feel that I'm doing people a favour, saving them hundreds if not thousands of pounds annually. Fair enough, my job is to sell a product, but it's not like I'm selling something that people don't need. Many of my customers see what I'm doing as a favour also, otherwise they wouldn't pass me their friends and families business too... At the end of the day, people not in the industry probably won't understand the product and the pro's and benefits that can come with changing provider. Those who understand, always change, and appreciate.

I use to work in the industry as well and now just generate leads via the web and telesales for a multitude of card company reps.

First of all you know full well that it's unlikely streamline, barclays or HSBC will tie anyone in after their initial contract period - you're not pitching to a customer here so there is no need to pull that line.

If you're finding it difficult to avoid the customer going back to their initial card provider then you need to work on your sales pitch and start closing those deals on the spot. As soon as you walk out the door you can bet your life they'll be on the phone to their current company so you need to get it a signature on the first meeting.

I don't understand why you think customers will believe you're doing them a favour. All you're actually doing is flicking a light on in their head telling them that better deals are available.
 
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I use to work in the industry as well and now just generate leads via the web and telesales for a multitude of card company reps.

First of all you know full well that it's unlikely streamline, barclays or HSBC will tie anyone in after their initial contract period - you're not pitching to a customer here so there is no need to pull that line.

If you're finding it difficult to avoid the customer going back to their initial card provider then you need to work on your sales pitch and start closing those deals on the spot. As soon as you walk out the door you can bet your life they'll be on the phone to their current company so you need to get it a signature on the first meeting.

I don't understand why you think customers will believe you're doing them a favour. All you're actually doing is flicking a light on in their head telling them that better deals are available.

Unlikely that Streamline will, but I've had recent experiences of Barclaycard, Global Payments and First Data doing this. So please try not to be so patronising... I'm not on here to argue. And I'm certainly not trying to pitch to you.

I never said that I was finding it hard, and again, why be so patronising? Do you know EVERYTHING there is to know about everything?

Again, I've never mentioned that every customer will feel like I'm doing them a favour. But yes, some do, and I have gained further customers from them as a result. If you've been in this industry, or any other sales industry, you should know as well as anyone that there will always be people that categorically will not sign there and then... it's just the way it is.
 
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I like the PaymentSense solution for switchers : "we will never be beaten on price"; even if a merchants existing provider lowered their rates, we would match or beat the lowest rate offered and cap the rates + give a better and more reliable level of service than SME's are used to.

As for giving existing providers a chance to lower their costs after years of poor service and high costs well, you have to appreciate that by the time most businesses are looking to switch merchant service provider, its not only the cost that is a factor. For the majority of switchers, they wouldn't stay with their existing provider because of the history and the realisation that there is something better and cheaper that they have been missing out on.

I don't understand why you think customers will believe you're doing them a favour. All you're actually doing is flicking a light on in their head telling them that better deals are available.

I guess this all depends on who turned the light on! (I'm in marketing :p) - Also, we're not like dealing with a Bank, we have a personal touch and take each business through the process in simple steps; many small businesses are genuinely grateful when we (marketers, sales people etc.) awaken them to the truth.

Ben
 
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Sparx

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Sep 16, 2010
497
112
A lot of the time when a merchant rings up their current provider, they'll again tie them in, often with the merchant being oblivious to this happening. I say this from experience.

Yes, they are tied back in as that is an industry standard to me.. However they never (usually) tie you in again for a further 3-5 years.

I know at CardSave if a merchant is out of contract, and we review their rates, we just put them on another 12 month contract and that's it.. We don't tie them in for 3-5 years.. :rolleyes:
 
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W

windlesham

Unlikely that Streamline will, but I've had recent experiences of Barclaycard, Global Payments and First Data doing this. So please try not to be so patronising... I'm not on here to argue. And I'm certainly not trying to pitch to you.

I never said that I was finding it hard, and again, why be so patronising? Do you know EVERYTHING there is to know about everything?

Again, I've never mentioned that every customer will feel like I'm doing them a favour. But yes, some do, and I have gained further customers from them as a result. If you've been in this industry, or any other sales industry, you should know as well as anyone that there will always be people that categorically will not sign there and then... it's just the way it is.

Will,

I wasn't trying to be patronising, I'm sorry you interpreted it that way.

Perhaps it's advisable to develop a thicker skin.

Best of luck
 
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Hi,
I am a Regional Development Manager for Paymentsense, interestingly we encourage our customers to review their rates each year even though they are capped for the duration of the contract. I see that there is a negativity about signing anything for 5 years... for those 5 years your rates can only go down not up. If my gas supplier offered that or my mortgage provider did the same I would certainly sign on the dotted line!
I can see an argument about contacting your existing supplier but they would have been quite happy taking your money year after year after year. I have recently saved a company £2000 per year and an eCommerce site £7,000 per year. I'm proud of doing that and I can sleep easily in my bed at night.:)
 
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Hi,
I am a Regional Development Manager for Paymentsense, interestingly we encourage our customers to review their rates each year even though they are capped for the duration of the contract. I see that there is a negativity about signing anything for 5 years... for those 5 years your rates can only go down not up. If my gas supplier offered that or my mortgage provider did the same I would certainly sign on the dotted line!
I can see an argument about contacting your existing supplier but they would have been quite happy taking your money year after year after year. I have recently saved a company £2000 per year and an eCommerce site £7,000 per year. I'm proud of doing that and I can sleep easily in my bed at night.:)

If a customer is tied in for five years Paymentsense has no incentive to lower these rates. If you had it written into your contract the rates would be reviewed every so often based on the t/o with a view to reducing them your sales spin may seem more plausible.

Unfortunately, you don't.
 
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fathippy

Free Member
Jul 17, 2008
607
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Hi,
I am a Regional Development Manager for Paymentsense, interestingly we encourage our customers to review their rates each year even though they are capped for the duration of the contract. I see that there is a negativity about signing anything for 5 years... for those 5 years your rates can only go down not up. If my gas supplier offered that or my mortgage provider did the same I would certainly sign on the dotted line!
I can see an argument about contacting your existing supplier but they would have been quite happy taking your money year after year after year. I have recently saved a company £2000 per year and an eCommerce site £7,000 per year. I'm proud of doing that and I can sleep easily in my bed at night.:)

Whilst I dont have any qualms with the general product and level of customer service of Payment sense, I am concerned by a slightly spivvy nature of the sales pitches. It is quite agressive selling, but then I suppose it needs to be to be the fastest growing etc etc.

In my case I actually contacted Paymentsense after a web search as I was going around the providers to see who was best, after my previous provider decided to put their rates up. This was early last year and I was also being threatened with new compliance/security (DSS?) fees, so I thought it a good time to move.

I was at the time told that Paymentsense were not going to charge any DSS fees, and that I could bring my DSS certification across from my provider. I also refused to get tied in for 5 years, not because I didnt want the service for that long, but that I could not guarantee that the limited companies would still exist, and I didnt want to create future problems with corporate re-organisation. I was assured that this tie-in would not apply in this case, and that this was only to prevent moving to competitors.

One year later, and I wasnt allowed to use the old DSS certification, so had to pay a few months of "non-certified" fees, then recently they have introduced a £4 a month DSS monitoring fee. Furthermore, I closed one of the entities at the end of 2011, and they are still asking me to "pay up the contract" for the remaining 4 years. When I pointed out both the original agreement (email) and also that the company in question had closed, was told that I had personally guaranteed everything (which I hadnt - I had merely provided my details in the application form). This seems strange behaviour when I still had eight other accounts with them.

To be fair, even with the extra fees, these are still competitive rates, however I am not sure why the company feels it necessary to be so aggressive with its customer relations.
 
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Whilst I dont have any qualms with the general product and level of customer service of Payment sense, I am concerned by a slightly spivvy nature of the sales pitches. It is quite agressive selling, but then I suppose it needs to be to be the fastest growing etc etc.

In my case I actually contacted Paymentsense after a web search as I was going around the providers to see who was best, after my previous provider decided to put their rates up. This was early last year and I was also being threatened with new compliance/security (DSS?) fees, so I thought it a good time to move.

I was at the time told that Paymentsense were not going to charge any DSS fees, and that I could bring my DSS certification across from my provider. I also refused to get tied in for 5 years, not because I didnt want the service for that long, but that I could not guarantee that the limited companies would still exist, and I didnt want to create future problems with corporate re-organisation. I was assured that this tie-in would not apply in this case, and that this was only to prevent moving to competitors.

One year later, and I wasnt allowed to use the old DSS certification, so had to pay a few months of "non-certified" fees, then recently they have introduced a £4 a month DSS monitoring fee. Furthermore, I closed one of the entities at the end of 2011, and they are still asking me to "pay up the contract" for the remaining 4 years. When I pointed out both the original agreement (email) and also that the company in question had closed, was told that I had personally guaranteed everything (which I hadnt - I had merely provided my details in the application form). This seems strange behaviour when I still had eight other accounts with them.

To be fair, even with the extra fees, these are still competitive rates, however I am not sure why the company feels it necessary to be so aggressive with its customer relations.

A considerable number of the independent card processing companies are independent and employ on a self employed commission only basis. The result of this is that you get a mixed bag of people representing the company. With anything in life the morals and business practices vary from person to person

Paymentsense reps don't have a defined territory and the company sets no limit on the amount of reps they employ so you'll often find them competing against each other for business.

But, the company is on the whole well run and operates an ethical policy which sees sales reps that miss sell removed. They do have quick set up times and they do on the whole deliver what they promise in the CONTRACT. It's just a case of differentiating between what's written down on paper and sales spin.

For instance it's very unlikely they would lower your card fees if your business increased when you were in a 5 year contract. The only reason they would consider this is if they were going to lose your business.
 
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I was a PaymentSense sales agent for a while and yes they had good rates and good customer service. I notice quite a few are put off by the 5 year contract however if you are a sole trader under the consumer credit act you are only tied in for the first 18 months after that you are only responsible for a re-stocking fee for each terminal which was when I worked for them in 2011 was £190. If you are a registered company then you will be tied in for 5 years. They do a shorter contact starting from 3 years but don't expect such good rates.
 
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L

LED Lightworld

We have a terminal machine in the shop and an online account for the website. They are good providers and were certainly cheaper than Barclays and Streamline when we compared.
The only other cheaper deal I have since seen was being offered by FSB, if you are a member might be worth checking it out.
 
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B

british steve

I don't understand the need for trying to lock in customers for 5 years, expecting small business owners to sign up for 5 years is daft - how many people know where they will be in 18 months time let alone 5 years? The cost of card terminals is negligible in this day and age; we paid £375 for our mobile GPRS terminals, any company who then wants our business has to agree to give us a max 1 year contract.

The card processing industry has to be one of the worst for customer service and contracts in the UK. the sooner PayPal and Square card processing come to the UK the better - while I am no fan of Paypal the no contract route should shake up the market.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17397342 (paypal press release)
 
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I don’t understand the need for trying to lock in customers for 5 years, expecting small business owners to sign up for 5 years is daft – how many people know where they will be in 18 months time let alone 5 years? The cost of card terminals is negligible in this day and age; we paid £375 for our mobile GPRS terminals, any company who then wants our business has to agree to give us a max 1 year contract.

The card processing industry has to be one of the worst for customer service and contracts in the UK. the sooner PayPal and Square card processing come to the UK the better - while I am no fan of Paypal the no contract route should shake up the market.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17397342 (paypal press release)

Sole traders and partnerships are in the contract for 18 months as they're classed as consumers and they're covered by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. They do have to pay a restocking fee of £190+VAT with PaymentSense/First Data though. I think a lot of people would rather be tied in for 18 months rather than pay an extortionate 2.7%! Look at the mobile phone industry. People want 24 month contracts rather than 18 months for the sake of even a fiver a month!
 
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Stevie Wonder

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Mar 5, 2011
93
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After originally starting this thread a few months ago I did sign a contract with paymentsense and have had a shocking experience. I would advise all fellow business owners to stay well clear.

I will make clear all details when my case is over.

I would appreciate being able to send a pm to benkirkwood and boxcleaver, two employees of the company who have contributed to this thread. Please reply giving me the ok to do so.
 
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What do you think a good or average rate is for CNP (Cardholder not present) as we have signed up for a veritual terminal and found the sale guy a waste of space so far

Elavon don't charge anything extra for CNP transactions. I say Elavon as THIS IS NOT SELF PROMOTION. Take note mods. You can get all transactions at one low rate, whether it's a CNP or not. Other companies will generally charge an 'uplift' for these transactions.
 
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Good afternoon guys. I've been very interested to read through this chain and having briefly looked at these forums before. It's clear that truly independent advice is hard to come by. We are all prejudiced by our experieces and it is hard to be truly objective. I would like to try and offer some independent advice where I can.

I've worked within the merchant acquiring industry for over 10 years and have been supporting SME's in the UK for a while longer.

In the interest of honesty I work for one of the UK Aquirers and have some knowledge of both acquiring and the Independent Sales Organsations that operate in the space.

I will have no commercial gain from these conversations and so if I can answer any questions I would be pleased to do so.

With regard to this subject there have been several good pieces of advice in particular from the 'marketeer'. But also some half truths.

My only advice is nothing profound. Shopping around and choosing a provider from a position of knowledge is always going to be a best practise. Reviewing your facilities with your providers on a regular basis is also strongly recommended. I am a fan of 'Better the devil you know'. If you are still with a provider and you have only discovered that your rates could be lower then I assume that you also have not been let down by service or else this would be a different conversation.

Now for the important piece as with any competative market, pricing can vary greatly between providers. You must read the small print. The costs to providers in this space varies for different types of transaction and so if for example if you take a large amount of CNP (Customer Not Present) transactions then the interchange paid is going to be higher and therefore you should expect a higher rate. I would strongly recomment that you are certain what premiums you will pay in addition to the 'headline rates' that many sales folk will tempt you with. The industry has very much been driven to differentiate between headline rates and premium rates.

As was mentioned earlier many of the ISO's do operate sales teams that are aggressive and this might be attributable to the commission elements of their salaries. It is my opinion that the main acquirers will tend to provide a more balanced sales approach. However the ISO's propositions can be attractive with extra value added services for you to benefit from.

My position in these type of discussion (much like bank managers) is that these companies all have the same issues, the advice that you get and the way you feel about the advisor infront of you counts for alot and a referral from somebody you trust is often a good starting place.

Regarding service...for most SME's you will very rarely need to contact your providers. your most frequent contact will be to seek manual authorisations from time to time and often the authorising bank will have a greater effect on your service at this point than your chosen provider. Some of the common themes regarding service are call centre locations, hours of availability and call waiting times. Forums like this are a great way to share your concerns with those who have used different providers particularily if you are new to the industry. But try to ask more open questions like, I'm looking for a merchant provider what experiences have other had of various providers. your answers may be better balanced and less polar.

I am sorry to say that there are few true ambassadors for the industry and in my opinion nobody is truly independent, including me (I would very much have my own preferences).

If anyone has any direct questions I would be more than pleased to help, I am new to this forum so please bare with me as I find my feet.

Yours truly Malcolm
 
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patchworkqueen

Free Member
Oct 30, 2012
3
0
Essex
Can anyone help me. Trying to absorb all the caveats involved along with seemingly endless extra costs is a minefield.

I have a pos terminal, also two websites but also take quite a few orders over the phone from customers. Obviously the new rules from banks regarding card processing and data capture are making us all quiver with talk of massive fines (like businesses aren't having a tough enough time of it) and the more I look at options the more confused I'm becoming.

I was about to sign a new contract for an ecom merchant account with HSBC who are also my business bank but was put off by the legal frighteners on it. I've spoken to CharityClear and also Paymentsense who both seem to offer really good rates but a bit suspicious and worried I might find hidden extras after it's too late and signed in for 60 (yes) months.

If anyone can advise would be really appreciated
 
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Rogerims

Free Member
Jun 2, 2012
11
2
Bolton
Many business owners are often attracted by the headline "Low Rates", but these can change during the contract. I know business owners who have add rate increases from Payment sense despite their claim of "Capped Rates". The only thing they will guarantee is that you are in to a 60 month contract!

Others add charges that you wont read on the front page of the contract which makes the whole industry confusing.

HSBC rates are very difficult to work out

Be assured that there there are good reliable card providers out there who offer 12 month contracts and include PCI compliance.

No business should need to sign long term contracts for a merchant account. My view is - if the card provider isn't good enough - you should be able to leave.
 
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Many business owners are often attracted by the headline "Low Rates", but these can change during the contract. I know business owners who have add rate increases from Payment sense despite their claim of "Capped Rates". The only thing they will guarantee is that you are in to a 60 month contract!

Actually this is not true. Capped rates means capped rates. The only MSP's raising rates are the banks and our competitors. Sure, if you want to be protected from price rises for 5 years then that gives you peace of mind - particularly as every MSP has raised their prices this year except PaymentSense - but 60 months is the longest contract we do.

For instance, our payment gateway has no minimum contract, no hidden fees and no exit cost.

I suggest, before you spout off any further "misinformed information" that you check your facts very carefully.

Ben
 
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Rogerims

Free Member
Jun 2, 2012
11
2
Bolton
Don't want to enter into a debate but I have seen evidence of a letter from a merchant who complained that First data/Paymentsense were putting up their rates. It's just that I, like you, was under the impression that the rates were capped.

If you want I could find the merchant's tel number and pass it on to you.

60 months is the only contract you do on terminals - correct? Or has this changed. Payment gateways is contract free.
 
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Hi, I think I know what you are talking about.

The only cost increase that is out of our control is nationwide interchange increases by the schemes; this is universal and affects all merchants and all merchant service providers. We pass on mandatory interchange increases - this is not the same as profiting from interchange fee changes.

Our card processing rates are capped for the duration of the contract - with over 30'000 live merchants with PaymentSense, not a single company has had a rate increase other than these mandatory interchange fees. I guess this is what you are referring to. Our website and contracts do make this clear, we pass this on at cost - our prices are so low, we'd lose money if we didn't!

One of the prime factors causing merchants to switch to PaymentSense is the price-hikes banks and MSP's force on their merchants without warning or recourse - regardless of interchange price changes, some providers increase card processing rates and leave the merchant with increased ongoing costs not knowing when/if the prices will rise again and again (some of the merchants that have switched to PaymentSense had 2 price increases this year - you have to love the banks!).

I do accept that technically the prices will have risen this year as the interchange fees were raised by Visa and Mastercard - this affects all businesses but, beyond this, we guarantee not the increase prices so our capped rates guarantee stands.

To be clear on contract length, our minimum "terminal" contract is 18 months - 60 months is the maximum we will cap the rates for. Most businesses sign up for a 5 year deal as the rates are considerably lower.

Our payment gateway is contract free, fixed price and you can exit at any time without financial penalty.

Hope that makes sense,
Ben.
 
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Rogerims

Free Member
Jun 2, 2012
11
2
Bolton
Thanks for the clarification. You and I know what capped means but to most of the small to medium sized entrepreneurs probably assume that "capped" means "fixed".

Can you also clarify that an 18 month deal on terminals means that they can walk away without any exit penalties to pay?
 
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