Analytics after May

[UKSBD]

I know everyone says just ignore the new cookie laws related to analytics etc., but If examples are made of and precedences are set, how are webmasters, SEO's, PPC experts retc. going to explain to website owners that what they are doing is illegal, to just ignore it and hope for the best.

Will you still be implementing analytics on clients sites, will you be advising clients to remove analytics, will you be telling clients about the new cookie laws and do you know if your professional indemnity insurance is still valid if you ignore the laws?

 

[WickITServices]

Well, the official guidance which is available in this PDF download from the Information Commissioner's Office is pretty clear in saying that analytics will not be regarded as a legitimate exemption from prior consent.

That said, I have yet to come across a web site that has specifically asked my permission to allow cookies. It may have been hidden away in the T's and C's in sites that I have had to sign up to to gain full access (which would be against the law come May 26 as specific and informed permission is required).

Additionally the ICO can fine up to £500,000 if you don't comply after a warning notice!

I particularly love this bit in the FAQ's:

People say this law just isn’t practical – what happens if I do nothing and wait for it all to go away?
This isn’t going away. It’s the law. The UK Regulations come from a European Directive that was passed in 2009. The requirements cannot easily be changed and cannot just be ignored. Many organisations are making a lot of effort to comply. The Information Commissioner has been clear that he will take a practical and proportionate approach to enforcing these rules where organisations are making the effort to comply.

I suppose I had better start thinking about it for myself and for my clients...

 

[UKSBD]

As far as I can tell people are burying their heads in the sand at the moment.

It's all fair enough ignoring it if it is your own site, but when it is clients sites it is a completely different ball game.

Will informing the client about the new laws, and letting them make the decision what to do be suffice, or could any responsibility be passed down to whoever actually ads the analytics code?

Frightening times ahead if the laws are not ignored.

 

[WickITServices]

Will informing the client about the new laws, and letting them make the decision what to do be suffice, or could any responsibility be passed down to whoever actually ads the analytics code?

I guess that depends on your support agreement and contract with the client. For example I run a monthly analytics summary for all my supported clients - which I guess puts the onus for arranging compliance on me

 

[UKSBD]

It really is frightening and here is an example why.

I run an online directory if I remove analytics, adsense etc, all other directories have a competitive advantage over me.

If I don't remove anything and another directory does, what is to stop them reporting me or even suing me bacause I am breaking the law to gain a competitive advantage?

Heads I lose, tails I lose.

Personally, I would like them to either do nothing or enforce it rigouresly, at least if they enforce it we are playing on a level playing field (those in EU anyway).

 

[UKSBD]

I guess that depends on your support agreement and contract with the client. For example I run a monthly analytics summary for all my supported clients - which I guess puts the onus for arranging compliance on me

It would probably make your insurance invalid too if you carried on.

 

[WickITServices]

Fortunately, all my managed sites are either on Wordpress or Joomla platforms so, if I'm clever enough I'll just have to write two plugins to use across the board.

The thing is, like you, I don't want to be putting off chance visitors with barriers to entering the site. It'll take some creative thinking.

And yes, I don't think my insurance covers me for lawbreaking, sadly...

 

[wdog5555]

I've gotta say I love the subtle and tasteful way the ICO have implemented the cookie agreement on their own site <sarcasm smiley!>

http://www.ico.gov.uk/Default.aspx

Do they actually pay someone to come up with these laws and how the hell can you enforce something like this given the number of sites in the UK alone?

On a side note, does anyone know if you still only have to ask for permission if the cookies aren't essential to the site (last time I checked shopping basket cookies were exempt but tracking cookies weren't)?

 

[WickITServices]

I've gotta say I love the subtle and tasteful way the ICO have implemented the cookie agreement on their own site <sarcasm smiley!>

Cute, huh?

Do they actually pay someone to come up with these laws and how the hell can you enforce something like this given the number of sites in the UK alone?

Yes and by employing a lot of public servants at taxpayers expense

On a side note, does anyone know if you still only have to ask for permission if the cookies aren't essential to the site (last time I checked shopping basket cookies were exempt but tracking cookies weren't)?

As far as I can make out, it's the duration of cookies that matters, sort of(?). Actually it's all very confusing and will be next to impossible to police, particularly if you are using hosting and analytics or site cookies from third parties outside the EU!

 

[Esk247]

If you don't do it right and you run a retail based website you could scare lots of customers away, especially as many do not understand cookies at all...or cupcakes.

Dreadful piece of nonsense that will cost UK businesses a lot of money to implement if they run a variety of websites and employ a web design company that now has to go in and insert coding. From what i understand, you cannot just put a line of text in, you have to have a clicky button that takes you to another page...it's a mess.

Hope Prestashop and Magento are going to be updated with a plugin to the new standard?

bet those with flash website are cursing their luck even more now.

 

[wdog5555]

From what i understand, you cannot just put a line of text in, you have to have a clicky button that takes you to another page...it's a mess.

Interestingly, the ICO website doesn't take you to another page when you 'check & accept' the eyesore at the top of their page?

Still just another 'lets crack a walnut with a sledgehammer' solution by the powers that be though!

 

[Esk247]

it's got to be unenforceable though surely, they already struggle to keep on top of website selling counterfeit products or websites that don't meet the basic requirements outlined by Trading Standards under the DSR so are they going to go through every website in the UK and check that you have a check box emblazoned across your homepage that makes your website look dodgy?

I'm now going to have to go through all the websites i used to build for clients before i went in to retail, just to be sure i don't get blamed for them not meeting the requirements. It's going to be a frickin nightmare implementing this across websites that have different platforms, i've used HTML, Prestashop, Wordpress and Magento in the past for former customers. They won't meet these requirements, over 30 odd flippin websites!

 

[WickITServices]

Just take a look at the cookies on your own web browser right now!
For Firefox Options > Options > remove individual cookies
There are, if you are as busy as I am on the web, hundreds of them from sites you don't even know about! It's either going to be a busy April or a damp squib.

 

[Esk247]

Just take a look at the cookies on your own web browser right now!
For Firefox Options > Options > remove individual cookies
There are, if you are as busy as I am on the web, hundreds of them from sites you don't even know about! It's either going to be a busy April or a damp squib.

Doesn't it kill the new advertising that follows you around too? By storing your cookies as you visit each website and serving up relevant advertising?

Yet again it shows that the decision makers are 200 steps behind the market leaders.

 

[WickITServices]

Doesn't it kill the new advertising that follows you around too? By storing your cookies as you visit each website and serving up relevant advertising?

Yet again it shows that the decision makers are 200 steps behind the market leaders.

Not to mention that most of those sites are not based in the EU and so not regulated in the same manner...

 

[UKSBD]

Interestingly, the ICO website doesn't take you to another page when you 'check & accept' the eyesore at the top of their page?

Still just another 'lets crack a walnut with a sledgehammer' solution by the powers that be though!

I tend to disagree a little, I would like to know what would happen if the Government or police used the tracking that is available now.

If more people knew how much info they provide when just generaly browsing there would probably be uproar.

I use Statcounter and the irony of the testimonial on there home page never escapes me, especialy when you see it is from a Lawyer.

From my reading of her testimonial she is using statcounter to actually track what her own individual customers are doing on her site.

Surely that has to be illegal.

 

[astutiumRob]

I run an online directory if I remove analytics, adsense etc, all other directories have a competitive advantage over me

What would your compliance with _the law_ have to do with a-n-other company having any " competitive advantage" over you ?

 

[directmarketingadvice]

What would your compliance with _the law_ have to do with a-n-other company having any " competitive advantage" over you ?

If they're not in compliance with the law, then they have an advantage because they'll have (a) a better understanding of their customer behaviour and (b) be able to split-test, (c) be better able to measure the ROI from their advertising.

All of these things will enable them to better manage - and more effectively grow - their businesses.

Frankly, I intend to do nothing for now.

This law is an utter disaster and my hope is that there'll be such an outcry about it once it goes live that it'll be repealed.

If not, the time will give me a chance to see how other companies deal with it and I can take the best of their ideas when creating my own solution.

Steve

PS If you want to know how much of a disaster it'll be, think about how google adwords conversion tracking works - it's cookie-based.

So we'd be going from a situation where

we can track sales back to the very search term, keyword and ad produced them - which allows us to know exactly what is and isn't working (and manage accordingly)

to

being back in the "half my advertising doesn't work - unfortunately I don't know which half".

Which means more money wasted on ineffective advertising. Which means lower profits. Which means less tax paid.

And for what?

To satisfy a bunch of idiots in Brussels who don't even understand what a cookie does?

Steve

 

[Chunkford]

According to this UK government article there is a consensus that first party analytics cookies are classed as "minimally intrusive ", and as the cookie directive is directed at moderately intrusive it should mean using analytics won't be a problem

 

[UKSBD]

If they're not in compliance with the law, then they have an advantage because they'll have (a) a better understanding of their customer behaviour and (b) be able to split-test, (c) be better able to measure the ROI from their advertising.

All of these things will enable them to better manage - and more effectively grow - their businesses.

And that's just from Analytics, what about the loss of AdSense revenue, the loss of engaging with Google+, Twitter, facebook widgets (that, I assume must track in some way)

Frankly, I intend to do nothing for now.

Will you (if you haven't already) be telling clients about the law, and asking them to sign some kind of disclaimer?

 

[directmarketingadvice]

Will you (if you haven't already) be telling clients about the law, and asking them to sign some kind of disclaimer?

I haven't thought about it.

I often find new clients don't have adequate conversion tracking in place. So, instead of asking them to add it, I'll have to warn them that it may be illegal to add it... but it will be very useful for their businesses.

And leave it up to them.

If this law does come into place - and isn't dropped quickly - it'll make adwords management very difficult. (No matter who is doing it.)

 

[UKSBD]

I see us as having only 3 options;

1. Put in a technical way of asking for Cookie permission on every single one of our pages.

2. Do nothing and hope we don't get reported.

3. Comply fully and report any competitors who are not complying.

As I tend to be very cautious I'm seriously considering option 3, not because I think reporting rivals will effect them, more because hopefully I will get a reply which I will then use a reason to reload all my tracking.

 

[WickITServices]

I see us as having only 3 options;

1. Put in a technical way of asking for Cookie permission on every single one of our pages.

2. Do nothing and hope we don't get reported.

3. Comply fully and report any competitors who are not complying.

There is another way, which I shall be adopting.

Prepare the code but don't implement anything till I know what the rest of the market is doing. I have long learned that when trying out new things on users: first is burned, second is better.

 

[tickseed]

If you look at the BT web site and it's your first visit (or you clear your cookies out first) you'll see how they are approaching this. It looks OK and seems to make sense, BUT this is for a site that most people will have heard of and will have some degree of trust for. Any site that is new to someone from say a Google search will probab be abandoned if they take the same approach.

This is similar to the baks introducing the on line 3D registration. Most customers didn't know about it and were/are very suspicious when it appears.

Regards,

david

 

[WickITServices]

Fortunately Scott Hermann has already released a free script which can be adapted for most platforms. The link is to the Google open code library.

Make sure you test it first and adapt it to suit your site's appearance

The snag is that it's java so may be blocked/non-functional on some browsers.

If I happen to find a php snippet I'll pop it up here too, but this will work for my managed sites as they all need java enabled to provide the reader with a rich and valuable browsing experience

 

[fisicx]

I've been in communication with the ICO over the past year on this issue and have yet to get a sensible answer from them.

Their own site fails the legislation and when you point this out to them they get all pear shaped.

As suggested by many, just have a plan in place and ignore until the organisations that will take you to court comply with the legislation.

 

[Curious]

Not had a chance to read it yet but just saw this has been posted - http://econsultancy.com/uk/blog/9416-eu-cookie-law-uk-government-crumbles

 

[WickITServices]

Yes, I scanned the "Implementer Guide" and that seemed to obfuscate issues further rather than clarify them. It is the problem of a lack of understanding of personal privacy and the way cookies are generally used in the bureaucratic corridors of our EU lawmakers.

Incidentally, I checked out BT.com earlier and their pop-up certainly didn't comply with the letter of the law as it assumed I had consented before I finished reading the pop-up! The whole thing is a right old mess.

Why is it that the UK always seems to take EU regulation far more seriously than our European partners who generally seem to interpret the rules to their own competitive advantage?

 

[wdog5555]

Incidentally, I checked out BT.com earlier and their pop-up certainly didn't comply with the letter of the law as it assumed I had consented before I finished reading the pop-up! The whole thing is a right old mess.

Ahhhhh, that'll be why nothing happened when I went on the BT site (popup blocker!).

 

[Annoying Donkey]

Incidentally, I checked out BT.com earlier and their pop-up certainly didn't comply with the letter of the law as it assumed I had consented before I finished reading the pop-up! The whole thing is a right old mess.

That's because BT are an Indian company...!

 

[iArtist]

Fortunately, all my managed sites are either on Wordpress or Joomla platforms so, if I'm clever enough I'll just have to write two plugins to use across the board.

I'm confused

re mu wordpress site

How do I find out if my wordpess plugins use cookies?

Do I need to disable Google analytics to comply with the law or just let the customer know my site uses cookies/google analytics?

It's not possible I don't think for me to allow people to opt out of cookies...??

Any advice re this?

 

[andygambles]

How about this though. I may be completely and utterly incorrect!

GA code is called via Javascript via the users browser. The GA code is loaded via the google analytics link and not from my website. It is the Google Analytics code (hosted externally) that is setting the cookie and not me. Therefore I do not have to request permission

Stretching it a lot I know!

 

[WickITServices]

GA code is called via Javascript via the users browser. The GA code is loaded via the google analytics link and not from my website. It is the Google Analytics code (hosted externally) that is setting the cookie and not me. Therefore I do not have to request permission

It will be a lawyer fest

 

[AshG]

I wonder how this will affect affiliate links