advice needed please

[dido99]

For over the past 2 years I have been working on a self employed subcontracted basis for a small ltd company. I carry out all the work provide my own tools and transport and give them 50% of my earings in exchange for the work being given to me. They were awarded a contract by a very large national company but didn't want to take on staff to fulfill it as they didn't know whether there was enough money in it. I contact all the customers, book them in, do all the work and get the jobs signed off.The customers then pay me and I give said ltd company 50%. When I contact customers I say I am representing the big national company not the ltd company - that was part of the contract - to represent national company. I have worked hard with my sons and built up an excellent reputation with customers - writing in to thank me (to said national company)- who have been delighted with the service the (ltd) company has been providing for them and have said work will at least double in the next year. Fantastic I thought!!! But no, they have said now it would be better for them to employ staff on an hourly rate as they will make more profit. What can I do? I feel I have built something out of nothing for them, albeit I was grateful for the work and have enjoyed it but who exactly has been sub contracting me?? I get nothing from Ltd company except customers names - i do the rest - invoicing etc, all paperwork - but again with big national companies name on paperwork. I'm at a loss as to what I can do moving forward - do I have any rights??

 

[internetspaceships]

I'm really sorry but if you don't have a service contract, and you're a self employed contractor then I'm not sure you do have any rights at all.

Hopefully though, someone more knowledgeable than me will come along and tell you differently.

I'm really sorry to hear this Dido.

 

[dido99]

thanks for responding - it's really demoralising. I felt as though I was doing well providing work for my sons and bringing the company (ltd) in plenty of money with no outlay - all profit. They obviously feel they can make more now but what about me and my boys??

 

[internetspaceships]

I understand exactly how you're feeling because I've been in a similar but not identical situation myself.

The sad fact is that it appears they have looked at the figures, decided that you cost them far too much, and that they can do it for far less money in house.

Again, I must stipulate that although I run a business myself I cannot guarantee that I'm not missing something that may bring a ray of hope because I'm simply not qualified to do so.

I really wish I could though because it would make me far happier to type that.

This whole situation sucks. Is there a way you could negotiate with them in some way? I guess either way you'd earn less though wouldn't you?

Maybe you could take that job and still pass the work to your family?

 

[dido99]

thanks again for responding. I has hoped something would come up on this site which would give me some ammunition - I don't mean that malicioiusly in ay way, but I feel I have worked extremely hard to build this up and have brought them in plenty of money for no outlay at all - everything has been done from my home - calls, invoicing, routing, planning etc. They have made quite a tidy profit and now I think I'm for the chop!!

 

[bdw]

I have worked hard with my sons and built up an excellent reputation with customers - writing in to thank me (to said national company)- who have been delighted with the service the (ltd) company has been providing for them and have said work will at least double in the next year.

If no contract exists and they are giving you the chop then if I were you I would get busy on the phone and call all the customers and offer to do the work at a discount.

.

 

[theRB]

I don't really have enough of information to make this judgement but I'll probably just go ahead anyway.

Any ideas when the tender is up for renewal? You could making a bid for the contract for the area that you're working but it would probably require further investment. If what you're saying is true then the company may be aware of your presence as a sub-contractor.

Only my thoughts but it maybe worth a shot. Other than that you would have to start searching and winning sub-contracts with the eggs and baskets theory in the back of your mind.

 

[dido99]

thanks again for response - it's so nice to have feedback. Yes I can check that out and try it - think the contract is up for renewal end of this year. I know who to contact in realtion to this- do you think it would help if I told them my situation and the fact that it's been myself and my sons who have actually been doing all the work for them and not the Ltd company?

 

[internetspaceships]

At this point it looks like the gloves are off regarding the company's attitude to you, so why should you take it lying down? So why not try for it yourself indeed? You don't even need to drop the cost by 50% do you.

Do make sure you're not going to make things any worse than they already are though.

 

[dido99]

thanks again - yes I think you're right I need to try to get his contract, the local store knows who has been doing all the work - they call me regularly for customer problems etc which I always go and resolve for free - not my problems I need to add.

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

From what I can make out, it appears the OP is trying to (or hoping to) argue a worker/employee status existed, but not sure yet as not read that jumble of a post. Will try to read soon, busy though, so may need to be reminded...





Karl Limpert

 

[dido99]

thanks so much - I really don't know what to do - i've worked so hard to build this up - but for what??

 

[The Resolver]

Its all down to the words (written or just spoken) in the contract which is the JV trading deal you came to with the ltd company. You may be able to show they agreed that, to enable them to contract with the national company, you would take all responsibility for performance and management. You may thus be able to show its more than just a sub-contract but a joint venture form the outset that they are now wanting to breach.

Separately, and as others have said , you would seem to have some goodwill to exploit with the national company. You need to find out whether they can terminate the deal with the ltd company and contract with your direct. You can deliver the same quality which cannot be guaranteed by the ltd company bringing in new staff and at much lower cost. You did everything (service/admin) for 50% of what the ltd company has been charging the national company. So you could increase and the national would still make significant savings for itself.

If you charged the natoinal company 50% more than you charged the ltd company you are still 25% less than the ltd company is charging the national company.

 

[theRB]

Just make sure you plan well for the date that it's due. You will have to be able to prove that you can carry on providing the same (preferably better) service on paper as well as being able to 'talk the talk'.

Start talking with them now, develop the relationship and find out what makes them 'tick' if your livelihood depends on it. If you win it, start planning for how you're going to win it next time.

Check any contracts you have with the company that you're actually contracting for to make sure that there's no agreements to say that you're not allowed to do this.

I'm sure others will have their views but don't just sit back and let it happen.

Regards,

Ryan

 

[UKSBD]

Is it even legal what you are doing?

Do you make it clear the customers contract is with you, or do they think it is with the National company?

 

[dido99]

They think it's with the national company, any issues which arise are then directed to me through said ltd company and I have to reolve them.

 

[UKSBD]

They think it's with the national company, any issues which arise are then directed to me through said ltd company and I have to reolve them.

And you are happy to miss-lead people like that?

There's a reason why people pay a premium to use a well known company.

If I thought I had a contract with a reputable national company and it turned out my contract was with Bodger and Sons pretending to be the national company and using their name I would be livid.

What happens if something serious goes wrong, rather than just a small thing you can go back and resolve?

 

[MikeJ]

The customer's contract is with the National Company.

They sub it to the local ltd company.

They, in turn, sub it to the OP. The OP does the work, including collecting the payment. But as far as I can see, the customer's contract is with the National Company?

 

[bdw]

I have a contract with the gas board (or whatever they call themselves now). In the past I have had people turning up to do repairs or maintenance in unmarked vans and when questioned they tell me that they are sub-contracting.

There is any amount of criticism in here of website designers who take on work then farm it out to the third world and charge UK rates.

Sub contracting work to others is fairly common practice is it not?

.

 

[UKSBD]

I have a contract with the gas board (or whatever they call themselves now). In the past I have had people turning up to do repairs or maintenance in unmarked vans and when questioned they tell me that they are sub-contracting.

There is any amount of criticism in here of website designers who take on work then farm it out to the third world and charge UK rates.

Sub contracting work to others is fairly common practice is it not?

.

Yes, but your contract is still with the gas board, who they send to do the job is irrelevant.

The OP says,
"I contact all the customers, book them in, do all the work and get the jobs signed off. The customers then pay me and I give said ltd company 50%. When I contact customers I say I am representing the big national company"

Just who is the contract with, the National company or the guy pretending to be them?

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

Dido99,


I don't see how you could ever argue your status was some sort of worker/employee. You provide your own tools, pay another company for the privilege, and you can involve others in the work - your sons in this case.


If you have any legal case to argue, the Resolver's post might be of assistance to you, but it's not an employment law issue I'm afraid.


Karl Limpert