Advice for a new pub business please!

Original Post:

johnsmith5001

Free Member
Feb 8, 2024
9
1
Hi all! Right, so, essentially an opportunity has come up to take over the lease of a rock music bar near me. The existing lease only runs until March 2025 but is able to be renewed (subject to rent being paid on time etc). The lease is available as the existing owner has developed a personal health issue. The cost of the lease is £25,000.

I'm in the process of finding out key financials, but I understand the bar most recently was averaging between £4000-£6000 weekly turnover. It currently opens 3 days a week. The lease is free of tie to any brewery and the license is 7 days a week and can potentially open until 6am, neither of which are being explored so I see room for growth.

The city is a large student city and the venue sits opposite an O2 Academy with almost daily major musicians playing, as well as being located near the train station/coach station and in the town centre. The venue is something of a brand in the local area, known for hosting lots of up and coming live music acts etc.

I have worked in pubs before and currently work as a DJ in a (different) rock music venue. I would likely look to hire a friend of mine who works as a bar manager where I DJ as the general manager if I took on the lease as he has years of bar management experience.

I have a number of questions for you all if you don't mind.

1) Should I do it?

2) I have a small amount of money saved, a few thousand, but would need a loan to purchase the lease and have working capital going in. Any advice as to the best ways to go about this? I've recently registered a limited company and would potentially be eligible for a start-up loan. I don't know whether an unsecured business start up loan or pub mortgage or whatever would be most suitable. Any advice welcomed.

3) The potential capacity for the venue is, I believe, approximately 300. What is the kind of turnover/profit I could expect off this, given the turnover as mentioned above. I see room for growth, but when I speak with the existing leaseholder in the next day or so, I want to be able to know what to expect in regards to profits etc.

4) Similarly, what kind of rent would likely be due on this property? I will be finding out shortly, but I'd like to know advice on what to expect.

5) How much realistically am I going to need for this venture if I go for it? I was expecting to try a loan of £35,000. £25,000 for the lease and £10,000 working capital, plus the small amount I have personally if required. Obviously I want to balance erring on the side of caution in terms of not being short with what I could realistically afford to borrow in loan terms.

6) There is an existing structure in place, in that there are staff who have worked there until quite recently when the bar closed its doors just before christmas. If possible, would you recommend keeping on as much of the existing structure and staff as possible, assuming the bar is turning a profit?

7) Any other hints and tips would be most welcome. I imagine many will warn against the perils of pub/bar ownership generally, but would appreciate critiques/advice on the specifics provided if possible.

Thank you all so much. Apologies for the lengthy post, it's my first time, so please be nice.
 
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Porky

Free Member
  • Dec 27, 2019
    704
    2
    425
    Staffordshire
    As a rule 'give it a go' is what you do with some spare cash and a bit of casino fund, not your life savings plus an unknown set of potential liabilities.

    There is a set of 'groan words' on a hospitality business plan, they include:

    Hard working
    People person
    Passionate
    Good cook

    And the winner, by a country mile - dream.

    None is inherently bad, but they nearly always distract from what actually matters, namely a comprehensive, researched business strategy and some business acumen (even hospitality experience doesn't score very high)

    In this case, to give it a go, the OP should reach an agreement to run the place on behalf of the current owners until the lease expires. You can be pretty sure ghe extension will require a PG
    Don't get me wrong @Mark T Jones i wouldn't go near this for all the tea in China even if i was given the lease for free and i say "Give it a go" very tongue in cheek but the OP is clearly VERY excited about doing this and I'm certainly not wanting to be the one to burst their bubble.

    Sometimes people do have to learn for themselves. Agree a well thought out business plan essential but they have to know what to cover off in it. Your suggestion to reach agreement to run the place on behalf of the current owners until the lease expires not a bad one but its the old adage isn't it "you don't know what you don't know" and this one is not something you learn about from a few posts on a forum. Without doubt the picture postcard will be nothing like the destination.

    A lot of these student places close, on the one hand on paper easy to assume, bucket loads of students, packed location with hot DJ "banging out tunes" this vision of fun times and frolics and the till ringing out with wet sales only in reality to find, the students are all doing "Pres" before they get to the venue and then sharing one drink and a vape all night if you are lucky. Constantly cleaning up the mess, working late hours but having to be up early to take any deliveries, staff churn or them not showing up, constantly spending on replaced inventory, toilets blocked and need sorting, getting stiffed on fruit machine licenses or insurance increases the list goes on BUT the OP most probably needs to experience it to understand it.

    I cant see the seller having a rush of interest for this business, maybe see if they can offer to run it for free for a couple of month's or some arrangement where the OP can actually "try before they commit" then they would gain the insight to know exactly what they are getting into. Its either that or as i say "Give it a go" and learn the harder way, just hope it doesn't cost them too much in the process.
     
    Upvote 0
    Never invest more than you are prepared to lose.

    If £10k was invested and a small living was made over the coming year and the business closed, that is some really good business experience to use and learn from. It may be a costly lesson, but will be far better than one of the many courses out there!
     
    Upvote 0

    Callum B

    New Member
    Feb 21, 2024
    1
    0
    Hi all! Right, so, essentially an opportunity has come up to take over the lease of a rock music bar near me. The existing lease only runs until March 2025 but is able to be renewed (subject to rent being paid on time etc). The lease is available as the existing owner has developed a personal health issue. The cost of the lease is £25,000.

    I'm in the process of finding out key financials, but I understand the bar most recently was averaging between £4000-£6000 weekly turnover. It currently opens 3 days a week. The lease is free of tie to any brewery and the license is 7 days a week and can potentially open until 6am, neither of which are being explored so I see room for growth.

    The city is a large student city and the venue sits opposite an O2 Academy with almost daily major musicians playing, as well as being located near the train station/coach station and in the town centre. The venue is something of a brand in the local area, known for hosting lots of up and coming live music acts etc.

    I have worked in pubs before and currently work as a DJ in a (different) rock music venue. I would likely look to hire a friend of mine who works as a bar manager where I DJ as the general manager if I took on the lease as he has years of bar management experience.

    I have a number of questions for you all if you don't mind.

    1) Should I do it?

    2) I have a small amount of money saved, a few thousand, but would need a loan to purchase the lease and have working capital going in. Any advice as to the best ways to go about this? I've recently registered a limited company and would potentially be eligible for a start-up loan. I don't know whether an unsecured business start up loan or pub mortgage or whatever would be most suitable. Any advice welcomed.

    3) The potential capacity for the venue is, I believe, approximately 300. What is the kind of turnover/profit I could expect off this, given the turnover as mentioned above. I see room for growth, but when I speak with the existing leaseholder in the next day or so, I want to be able to know what to expect in regards to profits etc.

    4) Similarly, what kind of rent would likely be due on this property? I will be finding out shortly, but I'd like to know advice on what to expect.

    5) How much realistically am I going to need for this venture if I go for it? I was expecting to try a loan of £35,000. £25,000 for the lease and £10,000 working capital, plus the small amount I have personally if required. Obviously I want to balance erring on the side of caution in terms of not being short with what I could realistically afford to borrow in loan terms.

    6) There is an existing structure in place, in that there are staff who have worked there until quite recently when the bar closed its doors just before christmas. If possible, would you recommend keeping on as much of the existing structure and staff as possible, assuming the bar is turning a profit?

    7) Any other hints and tips would be most welcome. I imagine many will warn against the perils of pub/bar ownership generally, but would appreciate critiques/advice on the specifics provided if possible.

    Thank you all so much. Apologies for the lengthy post, it's my first time, so please be nice.
    Hi, something that gets overlooks alot with SME is the legal requirement for all things health and safety. Any company with over 5 employees requires a health and safety policy which outlines the organizations commitment. This includes risk assessments, emergency procedures and safety training. Could get fined by the governing body if not compliant
     
    Upvote 0
    Some great points here.

    For me I would want to know why it hasn't reopened.
    I reckon complaints / licensing

    I would assume the £25k is for fixtures and fittings , goodwill ?

    If so what is the breakdown of this ?

    There is one year left on the lease - I would speak to the landlord direct and see if he wants you to sign a new lease on your terms , they will see venue is closed and he would rather an operator open and trading so able to pay rent !
     
    Upvote 0
    I agree go for it , what is your worst case money wise ?

    Just remember when you sign the lease you are liable for the rent for the duration of the agreement.

    If you shut 6 months into a 5 year lease you have to pay rent for rest of it unless you reassign


    Get a break clause in agreement so you can get out half way through.

    Also fix the rent for the term.
     
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    Mike MD

    Free Member
    Dec 7, 2023
    7
    2
    I wouldn't do anything without negotiating what the new lease will be. Say you put heart and soul into this for 8 months, make a right go of it, and the landlord then whacks a massive increase in the rent on. You leave, someone comes in and takes on a newly thriving business.
     
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    Mike MD

    Free Member
    Dec 7, 2023
    7
    2
    I wouldn't do anything without negotiating what the new lease will be. Say you put heart and soul into this for 8 months, make a right go of it, and the landlord then whacks a massive increase in the rent on. You leave, someone comes in and takes on a newly thriving business.
    Just realised that I have replied to a 4 month old thread! Sorry, hope everything has gone amazingly!
     
    Upvote 0
    My wife ran a pub for a long time. Whenever I talk to her about potentially opening a pub she says "it's bloody hard work and Im too old for it". :) She had to cover for ANYONE that missed a shift - both out front and in the kitchen. And staff do miss shifts.

    If it were me (and Ive always wanted to do something like this) I'd go the location and spend lots of time in nearby pubs and bars and ask about the place. See what other bar staff say about it. See what people do before going into the O2 venue. What are other pubs/bars doing? What's the competition and the pricing? Ask a million questions. Consider whether your venue will be 100% wet or a combination of wet/dry. Who's your clientele likely to be? And as with all new ventures, the newness is exciting but consider your 5th year in a rainy january. Do you have an exit in mind and when is that likely to be?
     
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