Accounts

[pangeh]

Hi,

I was wondering if somebody could give me some direction with my accounts, a bit new to all of this.

After a dispute with my accountant (he had been charging me for stuff that wasn't done) I no longer use his firm and now need to submit my accounts myself.

I have gone through all of my expenses and income for the past year so have a list of which ones are for the business etc.

I am now putting my P&L together to submit with my accounts but was a bit sure on how to categorise my expenses for the P&L. My business is an IT services company so I do not think I need to iclude anything for cost of sales as I have not outsourced.

For the rest of the expenses which categories can I use? For example where I have taken clients out do I put that as client entertainment on the P&L I submit to HMRC or do I just Include all the expenses under one heading, "Overheads" or some such.

Also where I have purchased equipment what category do I put this under? I went overseas as well for a possible contract which fell through. On my excel I put this as business development what would I class this under the P&L.

My accounts are overdue and after sorting through all of the receipts etc I need to put everything in the required format for HMRC. Have looked on a few sites including theres but it doesn't give a clear cut answer on how to categorise the expenses.

Hope this makes sense and thank you in advance for any help that you might offer.

Kind regards
P.

 

[Jenni384]

Are you a Ltd Co? (sounds like it from your post).

If so, it's not straightforward.

Accounts need to look like this
http://www.vtsoftware.co.uk/final_accounts/small.pdf

Filing duties and other good information here
http://franklyaccounts.co.uk/fivefile.php

The financial penalties for late submission of accounts are severe - £150 up to 1 month late, £375 1-3 months late and about £750 after that, and there's another level or two as well.

By all means DIY, but if you decide you can't do it (which may well be the case - I'm not being pessimistic), do appoint another accountant ASAP to mitigate the penalties as much as you can.

We aren't all as bad as the chap you fired, there are plenty of good accountants on this forum who could help you if you wanted.

Good luck

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

Here for example for costs:

http://www.franklyaccounts.co.uk/glossarycosts.php

However my view - get an accountant!

As these limited company accounts?

Are you also doing the CT600?

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

Filing duties and other good information here
http://franklyaccounts.co.uk/fivefile.php

Thanks for adding that Jenni

 

[Jenni384]

Thanks for adding that Jenni

Tis ok, it's a great resource. Until we have time to update the articles on our own site, I'm happy to link to yours. At the end of the day, people need to know these things to avoid getting into the sticky situations we see so often on here. The more anything like this gets linked the better!

 

[InternetMarketingPlatinum]

You're better off getting an accountant to do your end of year ltd company accounts.

 

[iridessa]

Agree with the other posters. You may think you are saving money now but if you get something wrong it could end up costing you an awful lot more at a later date.
Either look for someone else now - or eat humble pie, let the accountant who knows your business finish the accounts off quickly now and then spend some time looking for a replacement for next year.

 

[KDMINX]

+1 for find another accountant.

Now is not the time to learn how to become an amateur accountant!

 

[Wild Goose]

For me, the most compelling reason has to be that the Revenue are more likely to pull a DIY set of accounts for enquiry. Naturally, they have more confidence in returns prepared by any accountant who has built a good reputation with them.

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

For me, the most compelling reason has to be that the Revenue are more likely to pull a DIY set of accounts for enquiry. Naturally, they have more confidence in returns prepared by any accountant who has built a good reputation with them.

how so?

how do they know which is which?

with so many accountants, so many HMRC staff , HMRC office consolidation, staff cut, staff changes I am not sure how much water this holds in my experience.

 

[David Griffiths]

The Revenue have in yhe past said that returns from unrepresented taxpayers are more likely to be enquired into as part of their risk assessment. Presumably they pick this up from the existence of a 64-8

They did phone me a few years back to remind me that my return was due by the end of the following month if I wanted HMRC to do the calculations. It was only when I suggested that I could do it better than HMRC that they actually checked the record to see what I do! Quite apologetic at that point and explained that their job was to call unrepresented taxpayers.

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

have in yhe past said that returns from unrepresented taxpayers are more likely to be enquired into

With respect, the past being the word here I think. Look at the changes at HMRC over the past year. Are you dealing with the same people? Do they know you?

Given the fact that any one can call themselves an accoutnant the fact that a 64-8 may be in place can have little meaning for the quality of the accounts.

Oh I feel a Campaign coming on ....:

What is An Accountant?

http://www.whatisanaccountant.co.uk/

 

[Wild Goose]

how so?

how do they know which is which?

with so many accountants, so many HMRC staff , HMRC office consolidation, staff cut, staff changes I am not sure how much water this holds in my experience.

Hi Elaine. Well I've based that on three experiences:

Firstly, one or two people who I know from Corporation tax offices have over the years told me that they take a closer look at the numbers in DIY accounts than they do at those prepared by an agent. I suppose that's only what you'd expect - their expecting to find fault with the DIY sets.

Secondly, even with HMRC creating their super-offices, the Corporation Tax system still seems to function in an old fashioned way of someone actually reading accounts for sensibility (I know all that's likely to change a bit when online filing becomes compulsory). So presentation, and pre-empting any aspect enquiries by a more detailed note or even a covering letter, still seems to play a part.

I know not all accountants do this - I have a friend in a CT office who tells me that accounts often arrived badly presented: out of date presentation, missing notes, wrong FRSSE, figures not agreeing etc etc. But by and large, I would contend that good clear presentation can avert unwelcome attention.

Finally, it was my experience that after 10 years in practice the Revenue seemed hardly ever to select our clients for enquiry. Some had been selected during the early years. When we sold up and moved to another part of the country seven years ago it effectively meant starting from scratch, and what I found was that during the first two or three years the Revenue selected a larger than expected proportion of our clients for enquiry - almost as though they were testing our "newbie" work to see whether it passed muster. That then stopped, and the number of enquiries has since dropped right off.

I agree that with the cuts and reshuffles the CT offices have undergone you no longer have someone at local level that can get to know your practice and work standards. Anyway, like you we deal with HMRC offices all over the country. But I cannot get away from the fact that we have twice as a "new" practice been subjected to high enquiry levels, followed by a drop to below average after we'd passed the audition, so to speak.

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

As I said I ma basis my views on the recent (I mean last few months and past year) experience of re-shuffles, new staff etc.

I used to deal with CT Liverpool - no longer there. In Stoke who with respect done knwo their **** from *****.

On one important matter that had hung around for over 6 months passed out to a lovely guy on Portsmouth (who was just filling in until he got the chop after his office closed). He was very knowledgeable but said himself things were going down the tube!

So for me relationships that existed have disappeared.

You are so lucky that this isn't the case for you.

 

[Wild Goose]

Given the fact that any one can call themselves an accoutnant the fact that a 64-8 may be in place can have little meaning for the quality of the accounts.

Oh I feel a Campaign coming on ....:

What is An Accountant?

http://www.whatisanaccountant.co.uk/

You've still got the Chartered Institute of Pakistan in that drop-down list, you naughty girl! My OCD is kicking-in over this

You're going to cause major upset if you don't include the Indian, Australian, Canadian etc etc bodies as well; come to that, all their other accounting bodies too.

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

You've still got the Chartered Institute of Pakistan in that drop-down list, you naughty girl! My OCD is kicking-in over this

You're going to cause major upset if you don't include the Indian, Australian, Canadian etc etc bodies as well; come to that, all their other accounting bodies too.

chill out

If you sign it I might take it out - just for you.

BTW - calling a 46 year old women "you naughty girl" could be deemed a tad patronising but some, but not me of course you silly little boy

 

[Wild Goose]

chill out
If you sign it I might take it out - just for you.

Ok, but I'm gonna sign as a FCIP

BTW - calling a 46 year old women "you naughty girl" could be deemed a tad patronising but some, but not me of course you silly little boy

Ouch!! Sorry, old girl.

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

Ok, but I'm gonna sign as a FCIP



Ouch!! Sorry, old girl.

old is fine - girl I am far from being dear

 

[Wild Goose]

old is fine - girl I am far from being dear

Hmmm, in thread
http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=114284&page=3

Elaine said:

blimey mate - you know how to make a girl feel ****e

 

[Zeno]

by any accountant who has built a good reputation with them.

I too wonder if this is possible anymore. I have always tried to run my practice as though it is (I suspect they have a "naughty" list if nothing else) but in these days of centralised filing then it would seem unlikely.

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

oh no - Zeno & I agree. I will make a note of this date and celebrate it with a bank holiday each year (Ok - just an excuse to have a day off!)

 

[Zeno]

I actually suspect it is much the same with the banks these days too. When I was a lad, accounts submitted to a manager by a reputable, local firm would actually mean something but I don't expect it is like that now. I know for certain that some larger corportate clients have been advised to change auditors to a larger firm with the implication being that the bank puts more faith in their audit report. Damn cheek I call it.

 

[Zeno]

oh no - Zeno & I agree. I will make a note of this date and celebrate it with a bank holiday each year (Ok - just an excuse to have a day off!)

I agree with most of what you say, it's just I like winding you up more.

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

I agree with most of what you say, it's just I like winding you up more.

See I disagree with a lot of what you say and just love winding you up Group hug

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

When I was a lad, accounts submitted to a manager

written in a big red ledger, with a quill pen, whilst working late at night, with no tea and just a candle to see by ...

Wait a mo - just off to fetch my violin

 

[Wild Goose]

I agree with most of what you say, it's just I like winding you up more.

Seconded! Women of a certain age are such fun to bait. I guess it's their hormones

 

[Zeno]

written in a big red ledger, with a quill pen, whilst working late at night, with no tea and just a candle to see by ...

Wait a mo - just off to fetch my violin

Just an expression. And I was an ICAS trainee - we were not allowed to waste good money on candles!

 

[Zeno]

Seconded! Women of a certain age are such fun to bait. I guess it's their hormones

It's all fun & games until someone loses a testicle...

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

Seconded! Women of a certain age are such fun to bait. I guess it's their hormones

you must have all of the women flocking around you

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

It's all fun & games until someone loses a testicle...

some have got to have something to lose in the first place

 

[Strontium Dog]

written in a big red ledger, with a quill pen, whilst working late at night, with no tea and just a candle to see by ...

Wait a mo - just off to fetch my violin

On a tax course the other day with Bob Truncheon from Macyntire Hudson. He remarked that it used to be the practice in his firm that if a member of staff wanted a new biro, they had to hand the old one in !

My partner whose older, tighter and more grizzled than me has suggested it for immediate implementation in our firm!

 

[Wild Goose]

On a tax course the other day with Bob Truncheon from Macyntire Hudson. He remarked that it used to be the practice in his firm that if a member of staff wanted a new biro, they had to hand the old one in !

My partner whose older, tighter and more grizzled than me has suggested it for immediate implementation in our firm!

The very first firm I worked for did just that. The stationery-mistress was a formidable girl, oops pardon - woman, who steadfastly refused to dish out pens to us trainees unless we had an expired model to part-exchange.

The rule didn't apply to partners, but one non-partner CA at the firm fell foul of this when, in the boardroom with an important client signing-off accounts, he needed a black-ink pen. No amount of begging or reason could persuade stationery-woman to part with one - she wouldn't take our px offering on the basis of it being blue and unexpired. In the end sheer desperation drove us to W H Smith, where we bought an expensive black pen from petty cash which, after the accounts had finally been signed, we presented to the client for having kept him waiting.

Save money - I should think so!

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

those were the days - hey boys

I bet you were all in short trousers then

 

[Wild Goose]

those were the days - hey boys

I bet you were all in short trousers then

I have it on good authority that Zeno wore a kilt.

Yours Truly was adorned in flares. And rounded shirt-collars in African Violet.

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

please tell me that they were not nylon drip dry shirts!

 

[Strontium Dog]

...but I had a mullet !

 

[Zeno]

The very first firm I worked for did just that. The stationery-mistress was a formidable girl, oops pardon - woman, who steadfastly refused to dish out pens to us trainees unless we had an expired model to part-exchange.

Ah yes, the old secretary who runs the firm. More important that any of the fee earning staff or partners and with more power than the lot of them put together.

Where did they go to? I can't imagine they exist in firms these days.

I remember when as I newly qualified CA, I must have been getting ideas above my station when one of them chewed my out in front of the entire senior staff for writing reference number on the wrong corner of a file.

 

[Wild Goose]

please tell me that they were not nylon drip dry shirts!

Absolutely not! These were 100% acrilan.

...but I had a mullet !

I had to look that up... were you influenced by Gary Glitter?

 

[Wild Goose]

Ah yes, the old secretary who runs the firm....
...I remember when as I newly qualified CA, I must have been getting ideas above my station when one of them chewed my out in front of the entire senior staff for writing reference number on the wrong corner of a file.

You're lucky you had a pen to write on the wrong corner with, mate!

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

...but I had a mullet !

or lord ... do blokes actually admit to that

Visions of Kajagoogoo