£12/hour for SEO - too cheap?

[UKSBD]

outsourcing:: If anyone has some SEO they want to outsource to me for £12/hour.. feel free to PM me

I might be able to send some people your way at £12.00 an hour.
As long as you tell them it is £15.00 an hour

 

[RayB]

If that is the going rate then I have to make double that per hour to pay for it.

Yikes does this mean you are charging £6 per hour?................

.....................Disclaimer - Just Kidding

 

I think it is exactly the responsibility of a seo company to ensure that any website they work on and more importantly get paid to work on is generating results. A good seo should know when to turn away from a project and not take a penny for work that would be wasted.

Agree

although an SEO is in the main concerned with getting a high ranking.Most people who come to us don't have a clue how it all works.

They have set up a website and have the next best thing to bread for sale in there opinion:|

Most experienced SEO's have build up quite a lot of knowledge about how a site should work.and have probably seen enough various products put to the market to decide what is likely to sell.

So I think there are far more skills involved in SEO than just getting rankings,although ranking will always be the most important part of the job.

Earl

 

[PI Guy]

Yikes does this mean you are charging £6 per hour?................

.....................Disclaimer - Just Kidding

I charge what the market can bear and not a penny more

 

[Jayne]

£12 per hour, heck I think I'm going to SEO school. I once worked out my hourly rate at the bakery and I was on £1.50 per hour...lol

Jayne

 

[RedEvo]

I do my own seo, and I'e achived good rankings with most of my sites. But like my main business I tend to underprice anything I do because, to be frank, I FIND IT EASY.

I agree SEO isn't hard but then again most jobs aren't hard. Fixing my car isn't hard, but I prefer to pay a man to do it because I'd rather spend my time doing something more productive

I'd suggest you channel some time into keyword research, there are some great opportunities going begging in your field of expertise.

d

 

I agree SEO isn't hard but then again most jobs aren't hard. Fixing my car isn't hard, but I prefer to pay a man to do it because I'd rather spend my time doing something more productive

That's exactly the way someone described something to me this week. I couldn't figure out why a client was asking me to do the simplest of jobs and wanting me to charge for it.

Answer was because they just didn't have the time, and they knew if I did it would turn out better anyway. People could just sit and learn but they mostly don't have the time to figure it all and everyone in business has time which is always worth money dependant on who you are working for i.e. charity etc.

*hopes that I wrote that all out correctly, sounded good in my head*

 

[Wiggy]

Great thread. . .

My 2cents. . .

I'm doing my own SEO for now. Partly because the knowledgeable folks here have provided me with so much information it would be rude not to use it. Partly because on a day to day level, my business pretty much runs itself [at least until the end of January when I will have to find and train a new manager. ]
If I don't do the SEO I won't have anything to do. . .

I have been approached by many SEO firms lately and I am surprised how few of them can provide top ten Google references for decent keywords. Recently, I was told, "our site isn't in the top 20 on Google for SEO related keywords because they don't generate good conversion, search for 'website consultants' and we are number 1". To me, this would make sense for PPC, conversion issues are less relevant for SEO.

As a user [as opposed to practitioner] of SEO, I would much rather pay someone with top ten listing for obvious search terms.
Some of the examples of the art in RayB's Sitelinks thread are truly inspiring [ http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=47449 ]
I would find it hard to take somebody without any such sites seriously. This is despite the fact that a lot of what I find myself doing would be easily worth farming out at £12/hour. It's hard to accept that a good SEO won't have any references or will charge £12/hour

Having said that, if a good firm offered a shopping list:

Website SEO Analysis: Flat £250/site
Website Code development: £60/hour
Content writing: £55/hour
Directory submission £12/hour
SEO tuition £75/hour
etc.
{Disclaimer: this list is not based on anything}


And offered an a'la carte approach, perhaps I would sign up for some £12 submission because it is boring and tedious. . .Even then, I would want a ballpark figure of X directories/hour to judge the value of the service. . .

My recommendation as a potential buyer in this market, make yourself a website that is number 1 for an SEO relevant search term or two and charge more.

 

[cyates]

£12 is a ridiculously low rate ...

the old adage "you get what you pay for" should apply...

I dont charge a fortune for my seo services & i am extremely good at what i do
but £12 an hour .. raise your prices....if a business owner wants to be in the top 10
but wont pay that bit more then they cannot be serious about their business

Just my 2 cents

Chris

 

[Simon-M]

You hit the nail on the head their Wiggy. Because many poor SEO's often mystify their job (have a lot of trade secrets which are not really trade secrets at all) they feel they can charge stupid money for their snake oil. They care not if you get results. They have already banked your money and they move on to their next victim.

Good SEOs are hard to find. They don't need the work unless they are a big businesses with lots of specialists on board. Bruce Clay is a name that is a brand in this field.

Crap SEO's come and find you. One man band with promises of gold and riches. Knows a bit and has a few dodgy techniques that could well be high risk.

The Norm is mediocre/average SEOs. Know more than Joe Average but think they are worth the big bucks of the good SEOs. These are the ones that provide poor value for money.

An menu of services with prices would certainly help to de-mistify this. Thats in the interest of the customer though so would not be popular amongst the middle ground.

 

[PI Guy]

Pete charged me £199 for over 40 hours work on top of that his network of friends worked on other areas of my website for a full day, for this i wasn't charged.

 

£4.98 an hour, go start the new discussion! haha.

::Gavin runs and hides::

 

[Simon-M]

£4.98 an hour, go start the new discussion! haha.

::Gavin runs and hides::

Priceless

 

[ScottJ]

SEO is an ongoing process but I don't think there is an industry standard, I usually only ever work on my own sites but recently I have done work on one keyword for one business for which I charge £800 per month plus expenses which they are happy to pay and that should be ongoing indefinitely.

I have used various services that cost next to nothing that I am happy with though, no such thing as too cheap if your willing to do the work.

 

[RayB]

£4.98 an hour, go start the new discussion! haha.

::Gavin runs and hides::

RayB SPECIAL OFFER:

I will optimise any site for £1.99 per hour for the phrase:

"Oscillating Fluge Splage"

Shouldn't take long - certainly no more than 700 hours

 

[RedEvo]

You'll never do it. Competition is HUGE for that phrase. Good luck though....

d

 

[RayB]

You'll never do it. Competition is HUGE for that phrase. Good luck though....

d

But I like a challenge

 

But I like a challenge

Not as much as your wife does

Earl

 

[RayB]

Not as much as your wife does

Earl

Darn - RayB has been rumbled

 

- you two are hilarious.

 

[I, Brian]

That's what I charge.. too cheap?

The reason?.. I don't have a portfolio, I don't talk about sites that I have SEO'd apart from my own. I do get a surprising amount of work though.

Thoughts pleeeeeese

Thoughts?

It's not the cost that matters - it's the returns.

Also, it depends on the actual service being performed - for on-page optimisation you're basically talking about web development rates, which will vary, but rarely be expensive.

For off-page (ie, link development services) you need to expect to pay for quality, because you are talking about advertising services which traditionally are more costly - though still give a better return than PPC when you get quality.

 

[RayB]

Also, it depends on the actual service being performed - for on-page optimisation you're basically talking about web development rates, which will vary, but rarely be expensive.

For off-page (ie, link development services) you need to expect to pay for quality, because you are talking about advertising services which traditionally are more costly - though still give a better return than PPC when you get quality.

Hi Brian, Long time no see!

I would respectfully like to disagree with this - onpage SEO is more of a skill than you credit for IMO

2c

 

[I, Brian]

Nice to be back.

On-page is a skill, but it's still essentially webdev work with knowledge of what search engines are looking for. Certainly the knowledge of how search engines work and how to leverage a site via on-page factors doesn't come easy to everyone, but I don't think it should be a particularly expensive service.

I think the biggest skill is being able to interpret goals and relate those to conversions - I know you're clued up enough on exactly what you want to get from your site, and from search, so you kind of have an extra advantage there already.

 

[Optegris]

James,

I've known you for quite some time from here and Shell and I've got a lot of time and respect for you.

BUT

If you can get me on the front page for at least ten key, highly competitive phrases on all of the major search engines using pure white hat techniques and then keep me there for as long as I want for £12 per hour then your either not as good as you say you are or you should call me on Monday morning.

 

[RichP]

Obviously it depends on the quality of the service and as you say not having a portfolio makes it more difficult. I have an SEO consultant who charges £350 a day so you could certainly up your hourly rate once you have a track record.

 

[Pet Nanny]

I think I am in the WRONG job (only joking)!

Personally, I would just like to say, that although people who work with animals largely do it since it is a passion, we also have to make a living. As a business we rely on our website a tremendous amount, but since we could not afford to pay for SEO, I read, listen and try to learn myself, as you will all know! I admit it takes a while to sink in, but hey, who is perfect?

I offer my advice free of charge to people that I KNOW cannot afford to pay for behavioural advice for their dogs. It is not really free, since I know if I have done a good job, they will recommend me to their friends and so on.

I have no formal qualifications, just years of experience and working with wolves. I hope that this post highlights my point here.

Nina

 

[JustOneUK]

I think I am in the WRONG job (only joking)!

Personally, I would just like to say, that although people who work with animals largely do it since it is a passion, we also have to make a living. As a business we rely on our website a tremendous amount, but since we could not afford to pay for SEO, I read, listen and try to learn myself, as you will all know! I admit it takes a while to sink in, but hey, who is perfect?

I offer my advice free of charge to people that I KNOW cannot afford to pay for behavioural advice for their dogs. It is not really free, since I know if I have done a good job, they will recommend me to their friends and so on.

I have no formal qualifications, just years of experience and working with wolves. I hope that this post highlights my point here.

Nina

No, not really. If you are trying to say that I am just being really, really generous - then YES, you are right


regards
James the Generous

 

Just a thought the results of SEO can be many millions of pounds in profit for a website.

so I would say that using a fixed rate fit all sizes is a nonsense.

As Brian points out its the return that counts.

So every price should be tailored to that individual sites potential benifit from the SEO's intervention.

Earl

 

duplicate............

 

[JustOneUK]

Just a thought the results of SEO can be many millions of pounds in profit for a website.

so I would say that using a fixed rate fit all sizes is a nonsense.

As Brian points out its the return that counts.

So every price should be tailored to that individual sites potential benifit from the SEO's intervention.

So if you put a site to no1 for the term "holidays in Greece" you are somehow going to know how many holidays they sell, their conversion rate, what their profit margin is, [enter other imaginary figures here] :|

Of course with their keywords on no1 the company could make a huge amount of money, but it's dependent on the difficulty of the keyword, not their earnings.

That's how I see it.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

James do you have a specific charge/costing method for link building?

 

[I, Brian]

So if you put a site to no1 for the term "holidays in Greece" you are somehow going to know how many holidays they sell, their conversion rate, what their profit margin is, [enter other imaginary figures here] :|

Of course with their keywords on no1 the company could make a huge amount of money, but it's dependent on the difficulty of the keyword, not their earnings.

That's how I see it.

Seriously, you can do that level of tracking - most analytics programs allow funnelling which differentiate traffic from PPC and organic search, which allows you to track the cost-effectiveness of the conversion process, and also the ROI.

Also - while a lot of people chase high-traffic generic keywords, making them very competitive, the best converters are those which best match a more specific query, and this is where longtail plus having a strong SEO'ed site in your vertical really pays.

 

[JustOneUK]

Brian, I agree with your post although as an outsider you never really know what the company is making - you can only assume or waste hours investigating. Sales could also be affected by other influences such as price changes, other promotions, new products, other marketing, website copy etc etc, so to link SEO with sales is a veritable minefied (unless everything else remains static)

James do you have a specific charge/costing method for link building?

No, It's £12/hour and all free submissions (unless I get an additional budget for purchasing links which happens occasionally)

Just to go off topic slightly, because I love this.....

People often frown upon free submission directories because there are so many and they are generally regarded as useless, however many people also say that it's bad to use websites that sell links.....


You just gotta love that - no matter which universe you're from!

 

[RayB]

People often frown upon free submission directories because there are so many and they are generally regarded as useless, however many people also say that it's bad to use websites that sell links.....


You just gotta love that - no matter which universe you're from!

Yeah - and the plot thickens when the free directory converts to paid submission after you got a listing....................:|

 

[I, Brian]

People often frown upon free submission directories because there are so many and they are generally regarded as useless, however many people also say that it's bad to use websites that sell links.....

Yes, but properly managed paid links work brilliantly - never got a site to rank for a commercially useful keyword on free directories.

Some context here may be useful:
http://www.ibrian.co.uk/27-11-2007/niche-directories-still-offer-link-building-potential/

 

[RedEvo]

Yes, but properly managed paid links work brilliantly - never got a site to rank for a commercially useful keyword on free directories.

Some context here may be useful:
http://www.ibrian.co.uk/27-11-2007/niche-directories-still-offer-link-building-potential/

I know this will be viewed as naive but IMHO paid links are bad. They break Google's rules and sites using them run the risk of going from hero to zero overnight.

I know why businesses use them, I know how powerful they are, I know I'm being idealistic but they are bad and are another example of the fact we don't live (and never will) in a meritocracy - rant over

d

 

[RayB]

I know this will be viewed as naive but IMHO paid links are bad. They break Google's rules and sites using them run the risk of going from hero to zero overnight.

I know why businesses use them, I know how powerful they are, I know I'm being idealistic but they are bad and are another example of the fact we don't live (and never will) in a meritocracy - rant over

d

Actually - I agree with you 110% - but I think IBrian would disagree with you

Also, whilst links are important, they are not the be all and end all that some SEO's would have to believe

 

[UKSBD]

I don't sell links, I sell enhanced listings.

Enhanced listings are colour coded to match peoples site, allow more of a
description, include images/logos, add the web address under the contact
details and also include deeplinks to products pages.

Would you consider that bad?

example here,
http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory.co.uk/business-listings.asp?strCompanyName=Odd

 

[RayB]

I don't sell links, I sell enhanced listings.

Enhanced listings are colour coded to match peoples site, allow more of a
description, include images/logos, add the web address under the contact
details and also include deeplinks to products pages.

Would you consider that bad?

example here,
http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory.co.uk/business-listings.asp?strCompanyName=Odd

I absolutely would not consider that bad, a well run directory that charges a review fee is the ONLY exception to the paid links debate as far as I can tell - Google even suggests submitting to Yahoo by name, for example.


Sure, a lot of directories got spanked for "buying PR to resell that PR at a profit" recently, but that is a whole different issue

 

[RedEvo]

I don't sell links, I sell enhanced listings.

Enhanced listings are colour coded to match peoples site, allow more of a
description, include images/logos, add the web address under the contact
details and also include deeplinks to products pages.

Would you consider that bad?

example here,
http://www.uksmallbusinessdirectory.co.uk/business-listings.asp?strCompanyName=Odd

Agree with Ray on this one. Paid links disguised as a bona fide link or endorsement for another site are basically deceitful. I know this is laying it on a bit thick but that's the top and bottom of it. IMHO

For example, people know that adverts have been paid for in Yell.com. Yell don't pretend they are endorsing the services they list.

Google's trying to build a meritocratic 'directory', paid links prevent this or at least skew it. Rest assured it will be top of their list of priorities to ensure the index is purged, it will be an ongoing game of cat and mouse.

d