Unhappy with new employee

[Sobie]

Hi,
I took on a new employee last Monday and I am very unhappy with his performance to date.
He is lazy and completely unmotivated and I really don't want to keep him as an employee. My other member of staff is unhappy as they are doing all of the work.
Can you please advise on the legal side of how to dismiss this employee fairly.
Thanks
Rachel.

 

[Richie N]

You can give one day's notice until one months employment, unless it states otherwise on your written statement /contract.

 

[Geoff T]

Have you had a formal review of the "progress"? Tried to resolve the issues that have come up?

Legally the previous post was right, but have you tried "addressing the issues!"?

regards
Geoff

 

[Sobie]

Hi Geoff,
I've not had any formal discussions with the employee. I tried to conduct a meeting with the employee to discuss the week before they left on Friday. I asked how they thought their first week had been and I got a "grunt" and "alright, can i go home now?"
This is the employees first job. Just finished their GCSES. They worked saturdays for my mums shop last year and begged me for a job once they left school as they are supposedly interested in plants and gardening (I own a garden centre).
The employee has told my mum that they are unhappy but has not spoke to me - at all!
I was warned by my mums other employees that he is lazy, but i thought (stupidly) that because our shop interests him that he might enjoy working with us better.
I've really gone out of my way to make room in my business for this employee, I personally feel really hurt and let down, I've wasted so many hours of my time for this employee.
The contact states that the terms of employments is "seasonal and expected to continue until October, subject to a one month probationary period" and Notice Period of one week.
I want to have a formal meeting with the employee tomorow but I don't want to get this wrong.
I am also a bit worried that I may get negative comments towards my business from his parents. (His mum works in our local chip shop and really could spread nasty rumours about us if she wanted, and she is that way inclinded)
I was hoping that he would leave of his own accord but I don't want to be unfair to my other employee.
Thanks for all advise,
Rachel.

 

[Geoff T]

hi Rachel,

bearing in mind what you say, I'd suggest the following:

1. contact the parents 1st, explain the problem, talk it through (confidentially of course!), ask their advice, and if none being given (or no other answer found) talk them round to understanding why the layabout has got to go.

2. in line with 1st reply - ditch layabout!

This is of course a bit basic! You could try "engaging", "empowering", or any number of other things to try and get this teenager to pull their finger out, but for me - bin!!!

I've got too many other things to do than worry about a snot-nosed kid who's upsetting a business and other - more valued - employee!

let me know what you decide and how it goes!

regards
Geoff

 

[PERCY67]

Hi,

I would put of your mind what anyone else thinks or what they might say. Deal with that problem if it rears its head later on.

Go into tomorrow get this person in you office and tell them they are not suitable for the position and ask him to leave site immediatley. End of story.

In the past five years I've finsihed over 60 people this way, I'm not proud of it but if there is one thing I have found with staff, they never change for the better, generaly they start from a peak then either level off or keep falling. In this case this person sounds like a waste of skin, and will never peak.

Regards

Percy

 

[Sobie]

This is of course a bit basic! You could try "engaging", "empowering", or any number of other things to try and get this teenager to pull their finger out, but for me - bin!!!

I really have gone over the top with this, already signed him onto an NVQ for retail. set up his own "growing" project, was planning to set him up on and RHS course. All of which he knows about and seems to care little. I was hoping for a little protege.

I've spoken to his grandparents a little before employing him and they told me he works a one speed "Sleeping". I told them not to worry I'd shake it out of him......... I'm so naive!

I'll try to get his mum to have a meeting with us tomorow.
Thanks for your advise. I'll let you know how it goes.
Rachel.

 

[Sobie]

Hi,



Go into tomorrow get this person in you office and tell them they are not suitable for the position and ask him to leave site immediatley. End of story.



Regards

Percy

Thanks Percy, thats what I really want to do. just worried about the consequenses! Should I pay the weeks notice?
Rachel.

 

[Geoff T]

I really have gone over the top with this, already signed him onto an NVQ for retail. set up his own "growing" project, was planning to set him up on and RHS course. All of which he knows about and seems to care little. I was hoping for a little protege.

"over the top"!?! Not half!

I've spoken to his grandparents a little before employing him and they told me he works a one speed "Sleeping". I told them not to worry I'd shake it out of him......... I'm so naive!

'nuff said!

I'll try to get his mum to have a meeting with us tomorow.

ps - forget the week's notice!

If it works, cool - if not bin, per Percy! Worry about the rest later!

best of luck for tomorrow!
regards
Geoff

 

[maxine]

You might find that if you have a meeting tomorrow and ask him how he thinks it is going that he says he would like to leave and then you can be the generous caring employer and say that you are prepared to let him go immediately and not make him work his notice

Sometimes people give off vibes that they are not interested, lazy etc, when they feel insecure and uncomfortable so you could say that you will give him a week to show a bit of enthusiasm and energy or that you will be asking him to leave. At least that way you have given him a chance.

 

[Richie N]

If you are considering giving this lad more time, not sure speaking to his parents would help initially. Perhaps speak to the employee first and then if things don't improve, then probably speak to his parents but if it's his first job, he's got learn to stand on his own two feet.

 

[Geoff T]

If you are considering giving this lad more time, not sure speaking to his parents would help initially. Perhaps speak to the employee first and then if things don't improve, then probably speak to his parents but if it's his first job, he's got learn to stand on his own two feet.

I suggested this because of the "closed community" mentality, it's easier to deal a blow to the younger generation if their parents are on side first...

 

[Sobie]

Thank you all for your helpful advise.
I will speak to him first thing in the morning. I will suggest I would like to see an improvement by Friday. Then take it each day.
I'll let you all know what happens tommorow.
Best Regards
Rachel.

 

[starsgazing]

I really have gone over the top with this, already signed him onto an NVQ for retail. set up his own "growing" project, was planning to set him up on and RHS course. All of which he knows about and seems to care little. I was hoping for a little protege.

We were in exactly the same position and I've come to the conclusion that you should never mix business w/ personal relationships - hiring someone you know (even through someone) is a bad idea especially if they're under qualified. Good luck with the meeting, but I can almost predict the outcome. Assuming he wants to say, he'll come up w/ some BS about why he's not done well so far, but how he really likes the job and will try much harder. You'll see an improvement for about a week. Then things will go back to how they were before... Only he'll have more rights as an employee. My advice - cut him loose now. Leopards never change their spots- I hope you don't learn this the hard way.

 

[Mister B]

A couple of things spring to mind here....

1. It has nothing to do with his parents at all. The contract is with him and him alone and accordingly, I would keep well clear of them.

2. It sounds to me as if he is not happy either. As Maxine says, play it carefully and you could use this to your advantage. Call him in, ask him how he thinks that he's getting on. With some careful use of words you should be able to coerce him into admitting to his real feelings and again, as Maxine quite rightly points out, you can do the "right" thing and let him go. Should you need to, you could offer to pay him his weeks notice and let him go there and then...which may be the sweetener that he needs. Okay, it costs you money in the short term but in the long term should save you a lot of strife.

If number two fails to work then just get shot. In my experience the longer you let it drag on, the harder it will become to get rid of him. If he doesn't cut mustard in the first weekwhen he's supposed to be on probation then he won't in the future.

Good luck with it.

Mister B

 

[maidofkent]

I have to agree with Mister T on the parents issue. I would think his performance and the way you deal with it are confidential, regardless of the lad's age. You wouldn't speak to anyone else's parents, and I don't think it's appropriate to speak to his, either.

I'd probably talk to him and give him a week, but I'd prefer to just let him go - I agree that he's unlikely to change.

Maxine may well be right, and that would be the ideal scenario. If you talk to him he may be led to telling you he doesn't want to be there anyway.

If the parents do approach you afterwards (and I suspect they may not), it's sufficient to just say that 'it didn't work out'. I'm quite strongly against discussing things like this with anyone, parents included.

MoK

 

[Deliberator]

1. Nothing to do with the parents as has been said

2. Ask the lad for a meeting with you - tell him that you're going to have to let him go and you'll pay him til the end of the week. ( I suspect that he won't even bother turning up for the rest of the week !! )

3. He'll have no come back so you have nothing to worry about

4. Choose your new employees more carfeully in the future

5. Don't do favours for parents as it's like lending money to friends.........it usually ends badly !!

 

[Sobie]

Thank you all for your extremely helpful advise.
Maxine was spot on!

I called the lad into the office as soon as he got in (he was late again). And just said to him. "good morning, thought we should have a chat about your first week" and he burst into tears...

He said the job is nothing like he thought it would be and is not enjoying any of it. And he has had hayfever since taking the Job (we are a garden centre in case I failed to mention that)
I asked him if there was anything I could change to make him happier, (bearing in mind the jobs he had been doing was exactly as his job description.) and advised him (again) to see a doctor regarding the hayfever.

He said no, but he could try to work for me for a couple more days to see if his mind changed. I asked if that was really what he wanted to do, and that I would not be upset if he wanted to leave today. So he left.

That was 10:30am. At 4pm my mum poped in the shop. The lads mum had called her to ask what had happened because he would not tell his mum what had been said. And she was confused because I had already sorted out his pay. My Mum told her to ask me herself. I haven't heard anything else.

So a very big lesson learnt for me.

Thanks again everyone,
Best Regards
Rachel.

 

[maidofkent]

A happy ending.......

Quite often the thought of dealing with a situation, and all the awful scenarios you imagine, are ten times worse than what actually happens when you come to do it.

Sounds like you dealt with it really well, and I'm pleased it turned out okay.

MoK

 

[Geoff T]

good result! congrats Rachel (and well done Maxine!)

ps - do any of you "gainsayers" (I know - spelt wrong!) to my previous idea live, or have lived, in a village? and/or run a village pub?

regards,
Geoff

 

[GRDCredit]

That Maxine, she's good isn't she!

Brains, common sense and a beard. Like I said before - my kind of girl!

 

[Geoff T]

and don't forget the "Fabreze"!!

scented too!

 

[starsgazing]

I asked if that was really what he wanted to do, and that I would not be upset if he wanted to leave today. So he left.

Best case scenario under the circumstances. Really pleased for you!

 

[LightingGiants]

Blimey read the whole thread boy got nerve to huff and puff in his first week i would have fot rid straight but you dealt well rachel well done.... and as for you fabreze a.k.a maxine well done have you ever played mind games lol???

 

[maxine]

Yeay... well done Rachel. Bet you were relieved

And I only smell of fabreze a little bit and I have trimmed my goatie (sorry, you have to read previous threads where geoff and geoff have picked on me!)

 

[maxine]

... and as for you fabreze a.k.a maxine well done have you ever played mind games lol???

Nah... must have just been round the block a bit more than I thought!

 

[Bri]

I nearly got embroiled myself half way through, see always wait for the punchline. Comments quite right, not always what you imagine.

I could share my experiences with my own family working for us, absolute nightmare.

 

[GRDCredit]

Yeay... well done Rachel. Bet you were relieved

And I only smell of fabreze a little bit and I have trimmed my goatie (sorry, you have to read previous threads where geoff and geoff have picked on me!)

You thought you were being picked on?

I must be out of practice - I thought I was flirting!

 

[Mister B]

Well done. Nice to see a happy ending.

Mister B

 

[maxine]

You thought you were being picked on?

I must be out of practice - I thought I was flirting!

Thanks for pointing it out as I am obviously out of practice too!!
ps- do you always comment on a girls beard?

Rachel,

Think the thing to think about next is how you avoid these kind of problems in the future with what you do as part of your recruitment. Think about what needs to go into job description, what skills and attitude are required and how you will ask about that with interview questions. Then also think about how you will set standards and measure things in the first few weeks with your next 1st recruit.

Good luck

 

[Geoff T]

You thought you were being picked on?

I must be out of practice - I thought I was flirting!

practice those lines namesake! - me I gave up!

Thanks for pointing it out as I am obviously out of practice too!!
ps- do you always comment on a girls beard?

See what I mean!?!? It's always us in the wrong!

Rachel,

Think the thing to think about next is how you avoid these kind of problems in the future with what you do as part of your recruitment. Think about what needs to go into job description, what skills and attitude are required and how you will ask about that with interview questions. Then also think about how you will set standards and measure things in the first few weeks with your next 1st recruit.

Good luck

Multi-tasking again - and being good at it - we lose!

All the points on this one go to Maxine!

Regards
Geoff#2 (lowly male that I am Guv!)

 

[GRDCredit]

Maxine

Who is that strange person that has appeared in your avatar.

Purple hair?

Smoking?

No beard?

Is it really you?

 

[maxine]

It's a photo taken just a few minutes ago after I drew my eyebrows on and had a shave You like? lol

 

[TestAPlug]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, I haven't read all of the posts. New employees are subject to a probation period (usually 3 months). I would advise taking the employee to one side and telling them where they are going wrong and what improvements you would like to see. Do not threaten them but remind them that they are only on a probationary period. KEV

 

[Estimator]

I hate to see these types of incident - I think they show the employer up to be at fault more than the employee.
Sophie, you no doubt interviewed the lad, discussed his career plans, made a judgement on his character and aptitude for the job? :|
Did you get a reference from anybody before he started? :|
I take it you explained what the job entailed, even pointing out the boring bits? :|
Did you ask about any medical conditions? - hay fever or allergies would have been a good one. :|
So before some of the forum members carry on slapping yourself on the back, please acknowledge that you have made a c*ck up by having an employee leave within days of starting, whatever way he left is irrelevant.
Either you recruited the wrong candidate or you didn't get the best out of the right candidate.
Your mistake.

 

[Geoff T]

I hate to see these types of incident - I think they show the employer up to be at fault more than the employee.
Sophie, you no doubt interviewed the lad, discussed his career plans, made a judgement on his character and aptitude for the job? :|
Did you get a reference from anybody before he started? :|
I take it you explained what the job entailed, even pointing out the boring bits? :|
Did you ask about any medical conditions? - hay fever or allergies would have been a good one. :|
So before some of the forum members carry on slapping yourself on the back, please acknowledge that you have made a c*ck up by having an employee leave within days of starting, whatever way he left is irrelevant.
Either you recruited the wrong candidate or you didn't get the best out of the right candidate.
Your mistake.

the mistake was recognised by taking him on in the 1st place...recognised - and hopefully learnt from!

Have you never made a mistake when employing someone? God knows I have!

C*ck up was acknowledged - again, hopefully learnt from - and the best possible result for all has come about...learning curve for everyone involved which has to be a good thing surely?

 

[maxine]

So before some of the forum members carry on slapping yourself on the back, please acknowledge that you have made a c*ck up by having an employee leave within days of starting, whatever way he left is irrelevant.
Either you recruited the wrong candidate or you didn't get the best out of the right candidate.
Your mistake.

You are right and it did read a bit like back slapping didn't it? I only meant it in terms of well done for not making a bad situation any worse. Hopefully we can give a few pointers to help not make the same mistakes again or that we have made in the past

 

[Geoff T]

Max...you're doing it again...G#2 once again feeling inadequate!...{note to self - avoid threads about "stuff"}

Kind of what I was trying to say, just better put!

If the semi-retirement doesn't work out Max D), my advice would be to try the diplomacy corps...

Regards
Geoff

 

[Estimator]

You are right and it did read a bit like back slapping didn't it? I only meant it in terms of well done for not making a bad situation any worse. Hopefully we can give a few pointers to help not make the same mistakes again or that we have made in the past

I wasn't singling anybody out as chief back-slapper, it's just the mood of the forum some times, everybody seems to follow one another.
I was thinking 'Christ, these people must run some right 'hire & fire' companies. What is their modus operandi?' - we have a vacancy, he'll do and if he's no good we'll sack him and we can get somebody else.
Not good for the company, not good for the morale of existing staff and not good for the (short term) employee either.
Surely better to pick the right man for the job to start with?

 

[dylanmarlais]

Not to sound harsh, but if you are running a business and take on an employee who proves to be unsuitable then sack him - before he has been there for one year. There appears to have been a lot of soul-searching here when the business solution has been obvious.