Cheap & Cheerful Web Designer

[SLF]

im not sure if I missed what the rant was aimed at :|

you said

"but my point is...why do i struggle to find work when i'm prepared to work at hours that suit the client, i'm available 24 hours a day to my paying customers if they ever have a nightmare on there hands, they can come round to the offices and pick out some changes that they want..for many of my websites i even include a maintenance and update service for just £9.99 per month and that includes ALL of the updates they need."

so are you saying that despite offering cheaper end websites and all the extra service etc it's still difficult to get the customers? maybe the demand isnt as high, or there are more competitors offering solutions at this end of the market, or a bit of both.

Personally speaking, Id say try to be more exclusive and sell on quality than on price. I read a few posts here where people say "I might not be the cheapest but my sevrice is fantastic" or words to that effect, thus confident of their quality of service and not interested in those who buy on price alone. Value for money has nothing to do with being the cheapest.

 

[Esk247]

well i know that for a fact..if i charge the going rate for website design..i'd get zero work..i've tried it! then again..my location is not the best! in this area there are 5 local website designers and computer shops serving just 10,000 people and 150 businesses! so not a lot of work going around here especially during this 'credit crunch'

its just interesting to see the differences in opinion over the OP with regards to a website for £50..some are offering up their services while others are saying 'spit on you for darkening our door with this so called website design work..£50? HA thats per hour i hope' <<< thats the image i'm getting from a lot of the bigger, city based website designers perhaps.

yet us small beans are happy to have a new customer through our door..no matter how little they pay us. its just interesting.

 

[matt.chatterley]

yet us small beans are happy to have a new customer through our door..no matter how little they pay us. its just interesting.

It's definitely interesting - I've been following this thread somewhat avidly (barring a few sections).

We always discuss prices with the customer, and try to strike a balance - sometimes this means that we shave a bit off the price because there is plenty of work to be had - sometimes it means that they shave a bit off the functionality because they don't want to pay for it!

Flexibility is vital - but at the same time, we can't match some of the super-low prices which I see posted here from time to time!

Good luck to those that can do it, though.

 

[Matt1959]

"I might not be the cheapest but my sevrice is fantastic" or words to that effect, quote]

thats surely has to be one of most cheesy lines on the planet do people still trot this out? what it really means is that they are psyching you up to pay more. If someone says that to me, I know I'm going to pay more money than I have to and I have never ever used it for my customers, as its such a cliche......

 

[biomed86]

Boxby - I bet you never thought this thread would be this popular! Out of interest, is the website you required being done for you? Surely if it is then that's all that matters!

 

[SLF]

Ive seen some respectable people on this forum use that line (or close to it) very often. Personally speaking, I prefer that they acknowledge they are not the cheapest, as oposed to someone claiming to be the cheapest.

As I said before, cheap is not value for money so in that respect, its not cheesy is it? They are just saying they dont sell the cheap stuff.

 

[SLF]

he eh i'd love to see the finished article. Ive not got an opinion either way. £50, £500, £5k, its the customers choice.

 

[matt.chatterley]

Boxby - I bet you never thought this thread would be this popular! Out of interest, is the website you required being done for you? Surely if it is then that's all that matters!

There would be a degree of irony involved if it wasn't..

 

[biomed86]

I'd like to see the finished product now too, purely because of the raucus this thread has caused

 

[streetslocal]

As ive stated throughout cheap is not an option.
Value for money is key to any business model especially in these hard times.

Those that sit on there backside taking customers for a ride will disappear and those that give something extra will flourish.

Off the back of this thread ive had 3 enquiries and one fake one

 

[biomed86]

Well done on getting more enquiries - this thread has obviously gone in your favour

 

[streetslocal]

Well done on getting more enquiries - this thread has obviously gone in your favour

Not in all aspects
Its not point scoring just something i feel quite strongly about.

I believe we offer something that helps people out and does get the customer good results and thats what it is about.

Also thanks Matt for the PM made sense.

 

[matt.chatterley]

I believe we offer something that helps people out and does get the customer good results and thats what it is about.

I may not have agreed with everything in the thread (not aiming at you streets - the thread in general!), but I definitely agree with this.

Making sure the customer goes away happy, with what they needed (this is not always what they wanted, or thought they wanted) and moreover that they will come back - is simply critical.

 

[Matt1959]

Ive seen some respectable people on this forum use that line (or close to it) very often. Personally speaking, I prefer that they acknowledge they are not the cheapest, as oposed to someone claiming to be the cheapest.

As I said before, cheap is not value for money so in that respect, its not cheesy is it? They are just saying they dont sell the cheap stuff.

but what they're in danger of doing before they've even started their pitch is to diss the competition - and that never comes across well. Its for the customer to decide who offers a crap service surely?

 

[SLF]

yes it is, and im not endorsing these members personally btw, its whats been stated on the forums by other members supporting & endorsing them that im using the term 'respected'. But yes, if they just say 'we are not the cheapest but we give a great service' and dont infer anything further then that is fine, but if they go a step too far and include a swipe at others, then I agree that's not gonna do their professional image much good.

 

As ive stated throughout cheap is not an option.
Value for money is key to any business model

Maybe you would like to tell moi what a value for money website is.?

Or anyone like to answer that question.




Earl

 

[SLF]

the value can only be percieved by the buyer surely?

 

[biomed86]

the value can only be percieved by the buyer surely?

I would have thought so too, because what's value for money to one person may not be to another

 

[Matt1959]

Maybe you would like to tell moi what a value for money website is.?

Or anyone like to answer that question.




Earl

I'm trying to answer the question here but cant with web work I think theres too many variables and the value is percieved by the buyer as said. Whereas as an analogy, if I was looking to buy say a tyre for my car, then value for money would be something lower priced that does an adequate job. With cars perhaps a Skoda or a Seat:|

 

[matt.chatterley]

Maybe you would like to tell moi what a value for money website is.?

Or anyone like to answer that question.

Earl

Oh, can't you ask an easy question for once Earl? Actually no - that'd take the fun out of life

Value for money - something which does the job, to an appropriate standard, satisfying the customer's requirements (and potentially those of their customers too - depending on circumstances).

Note use of appropriate - it's pivotal

 

OK so why do most people want a website in the first place.?


Earl

 

[streetslocal]

It does what the customer wants it too or more...
For example we onsite SEO ready our sites as standard

 

[streetslocal]

OK so why do most people want a website in the first place.?


Earl

It depends on the customer...

Some to increase sales

Some to increase brand awareness and sales

others because there younger sons and daughters said its the done thing

 

[Esk247]

possible reasons that people/business want a website:

1) there son/daughter is online all the time and cannot believe they are not internet savvy << this is the top one from my clients
2) there competitor has one and they want one too
3) they want to expand quickly but without massive outlay
4) they want to reduce dead stock and sell nationwide
5) they are closing the shop and want to switch to a low-cost option and take the customers with them if they can
6) they are introducing there son/daughter to the world of business and will give them £1000 to spend wisely on perhaps a website and some stock or something along those lines
7) they've been made redundant and have some cash spare to start a new business

thats the main ones for me anyway!

 

[SLF]

some more guesses....

1. Because its essential for the business to oeprate
2. Because it's part of their marketing strategy/plans
3. Because they havent got one so think they should have one
4. Because they think they can get rich quick
5. Because they arent selling anything much and think having one will do the trick.

 

Well 99% of the people I come into contact with want to make money.

The rest spend there time watching youtube or running around with an Ipod plugged into there brain.

Earl

 

[KidsBeeHappy]

some more guesses....

1. Because its essential for the business to oeprate
2. Because it's part of their marketing strategy/plans
3. Because they havent got one so think they should have one
4. Because they think they can get rich quick
5. Because they arent selling anything much and think having one will do the trick.

For the type of customer I am dealing with, the answers are;

1. Not essential
2. It's probably an "intended" part of an unwritten, unorganised strategy.
3. Probably, yes
4. No, not what they are expecting, they are serious business people and don't honestly expect a basic cheap website to make them rich.
5. No, again, they're realistic, just hoping that it will bring in a couple of extra jobs every month to start off with.

:redface:

And remember the fundamental, most of the customers are owner drivers, which means they operate their business on a daily basis from their van, not their office, desk or even laptop, but fundamentally from their phone.

 

[thedesigntailor]

I've just got back off holiday and spent a whole hour reading this thread. Brilliant discussion!

We're one of these not cheap but high quality developers that have been mentioned and I like the fact that people like streets are selling sites for bugger all. The reason being is it filters the 'crap' clients (by which I mean crap for us).

We can't do a site in 2.5hours. I probably spend that just chatting to the client about what they need. Therefore you can add a zero to the price and then double it. The clients who want to spend less on their website than a tank of fuel just wouldn't need us.

Matt use the metaphor of a car tyre which is similar to the metaphor of the car itself which I use:

You can buy a car for £50 or £5million. Infact I bought my first car, a ford escort for £50. It didn't work very well and was a death trap. But it was perfect for bombing around a field in and thats what I wanted it for.

My much more expensive car now would be sh!t for a field but it's what I need for bombing around Bristol.

Some companies need a clapped out escort website; one that gets by but doesn't leave the field. Some need a ford focus website, nothing special and looks like everything else on the information highway but reasonably reliable.

We sell the more premium sites. From a 3 series - which may not be any better than a cheaper Mondeo but a lot more stylish - to the super car websites which set up perfectly for the company and out perform the competion. This is what MY clients need, but lots wouldn't.

No one here would buy an F1 car and spend millions on their website. These are for the real big blue chips who can't use a £50 escort websites in the same way that Boxby can't use a £5mill formula one website.

Anyway, everyone dreams of owning one of our Aston Martins

 

I'll stay with your analogy and say I build F1 sites that look like Ford Escorts.

If you get my drift (oops no pun intended :| )

Earl

 

[Big J]

and one fake one

Please, please leave me alone.

 

[thedesigntailor]

Flipping hell, Earl. I get so tyred of your puns, you are a right motor mouth. I think you have a bee in your bonnet about something, as you always put the boot in.

The bad jokes indicate I must go to bed at this juction before I brake down as I'm exhausted.

I can't think of anyway to use the words, 'big end'.

 

[thedesigntailor]

Please, please leave me alone.

I shouldn't worry - He's threatening to take someone to court for saying Creospace is a decent company on another thread

 

[Big J]

I shouldn't worry - He's threatening to take someone to court for saying Creospace is a decent company on another thread

that wasn't a dig at earl

 

[Esk247]

well this is what i do with my business:

1) customer comes to me and says 'give me whatever, i've got £100, don't care what it looks like just something nice and simple' so they buy one from my off the shelf templates or I can make up a photoshop based bespoke website for a little bit extra

2) customer comes to me with the above but also wants some business cards...i don't do those..but i know a few people that do and I give him the options of Goodprint, Vistaprint or the local firm that I use and he can pick from a few examples that i have for him

3) customer comes along with a bag of cash and says i want a massive website with everything, animations, 3d logo, the works...i then telephone someone like thedesigntailor because he is an expert in this field and i really don't have time to do complicated websites and i don't have the staff for it.

thats how my business works..i do the cheapy websites, the ones that non of the big guys can be bothered with. it seems to work ok actually.

 

[DuaneJackson]

I dont understand why the trademen woudl need to be targeted? If they want a value for money website then they can buy one teh same place as the accountant or the hairdresser. Why are their needs any different?

Their needs aren't any different, but they'd need to be marketed to differently and the "package" would have to be different for them than say, an accountant. And an accountant would have to be sold to differently to a hairdresser.

I am open about my business practices

No you're not. You're litigious - or attempt to give the impression that you are.

If anyone says something you don't like you start screaming about defamation and libel and go on about suing people and getting your "lawyers" involved - and that's based on what I've seen in the public domain, nothing to do with anything I may or may not have seen due to moderator privilidges.

To my mind, that's the opposite of being open. That reason alone would make me run a mile from even the idea of doing business with you.

Can you please stop making demands of BigJ to answer your questions, and BigJ, stop raising to the bait!

This is an interesting thread, so hopefully it wont go further down hill.

 

[streetslocal]

Please, please leave me alone.

Did i actually say the fake enquiry was you?
Unless....

 

[Big J]

To my mind, that's the opposite of being open. That reason alone would make me run a mile from even the idea of doing business with you.

Can you please stop making demands of BigJ to answer your questions, and BigJ, stop raising to the bait!

This is an interesting thread, so hopefully it wont go further down hill.

Yes, it seems as though hes got something to hide - I have a lot of work I could have put his way, as my previous attempts at web design have been unsuccesful, hence the posts, Streets.

In my trade I get a lot of enquires because some people think that because I'm in the IT trade, I can build websites. I started to believe it myself! I tried to replicate my old college days html (no xhtml or css when I was at college, that long ago!) but soon realised that it takes years to learn first how to do the code properly THEN another x amount of years of how to design properly. I simply don't have the time to learn it so I soon want to sub out this type of work to people.

I am starting to look at websites and critique them, hence my posts in this thread. Sorry if someone - not saying who - dosn;t like it.

 

[streetslocal]

Yes, it seems as though hes got something to hide - I have a lot of work I could have put his way, as my previous attempts at web design have been unsuccesful, hence the posts, Streets.

In my trade I get a lot of enquires because some people think that because I'm in the IT trade, I can build websites. I started to believe it myself! I tried to replicate my old college days html (no xhtml or css when I was at college, that long ago!) but soon realised that it takes years to learn first how to do the code properly THEN another x amount of years of how to design properly. I simply don't have the time to learn it so I soon want to sub out this type of work to people.

I am starting to look at websites and critique them, hence my posts in this thread. Sorry if someone - not saying who - dosn;t like it.

The thing is though web design is a very personal thing and its up to the end person what they want and what they like.

The customer for whom that site was designed loved the site and it works for them by generating extra business and more business than they possibly would have expected.

I think maybe me and BIG J should leave it here....

Peace

 

[Tin]

I think maybe me and BIG J should leave it here....

That's a really good idea so let's do it!

 

[streetslocal]

I've just got back off holiday and spent a whole hour reading this thread. Brilliant discussion!

We're one of these not cheap but high quality developers that have been mentioned and I like the fact that people like streets are selling sites for bugger all. The reason being is it filters the 'crap' clients (by which I mean crap for us).

We can't do a site in 2.5hours. I probably spend that just chatting to the client about what they need. Therefore you can add a zero to the price and then double it. The clients who want to spend less on their website than a tank of fuel just wouldn't need us.

Matt use the metaphor of a car tyre which is similar to the metaphor of the car itself which I use:

You can buy a car for £50 or £5million. Infact I bought my first car, a ford escort for £50. It didn't work very well and was a death trap. But it was perfect for bombing around a field in and thats what I wanted it for.

My much more expensive car now would be sh!t for a field but it's what I need for bombing around Bristol.

Some companies need a clapped out escort website; one that gets by but doesn't leave the field. Some need a ford focus website, nothing special and looks like everything else on the information highway but reasonably reliable.

We sell the more premium sites. From a 3 series - which may not be any better than a cheaper Mondeo but a lot more stylish - to the super car websites which set up perfectly for the company and out perform the competion. This is what MY clients need, but lots wouldn't.

No one here would buy an F1 car and spend millions on their website. These are for the real big blue chips who can't use a £50 escort websites in the same way that Boxby can't use a £5mill formula one website.

Anyway, everyone dreams of owning one of our Aston Martins

For the record the majority of our websites are the FORD FOCUS and bespokes are aston martins as standard