Cheap & Cheerful Web Designer

[Esk247]

i don't do any marketing...i go by word of mouth...i did advertising before in local papers and ended up doing 2 websites where the customer didn't pay and ran off..they wanted a cheapie website up and were hoping i'd just let them have it!

word of mouth works best for me, its free and i end up getting customers that i know better and its a more casual way of working.

 

[zoezoe]

i don't do any marketing...i go by word of mouth...i did advertising before in local papers and ended up doing 2 websites where the customer didn't pay and ran off..they wanted a cheapie website up and were hoping i'd just let them have it!

word of mouth works best for me, its free and i end up getting customers that i know better and its a more casual way of working.

you just said that you were struggling for customers-so perhaps it does not work best for you??

 

[Esk247]

well i think i'm struggling for customers because of location...when i say struggling for customers i mean my business is not growing at the rate i'd expect it to grow..we aren't having the amount of enquiries that would be normal for a business of my type in comparison to those in other areas..we're practically rural to be honest and so 2009 is when marketing may become an option.

word of mouth has worked so far in that its brought in 90% of all of my work..marketing would not achieve anything locally...i've spent over £1000 in marketing in the past (3 years ago) we had zero enquiries even though it included advertising in the paper, flyer distribution, having an article put up and advertising on posters in several locations...no interest was shown...i think 2009 is when i'll get back to looking at marketing though.

 

[Marzipan]

..my location is not the best! in this area there are 5 local website designers and computer shops serving just 10,000 people and 150 businesses! so not a lot of work going around here especially during this 'credit crunch'

could i charge £50 an hour??? yep..but i won't have any customers in Whitby...they can barely afford to pay me £10 per hour.

Do you limit yourself to whitby for a reason?

well i think i'm struggling for customers because of location...

Esk - the recurring thought going through my mind is like Streets says - why do you limit yourself to your local area? I always thought the first w in www. stood for "worldwide" not "Whitby" Even word of mouth must surely bring in enquiries from further away?

Lovely place, Whitby, have got many good childhood memories of the place (and still got my lucky duck!) but it seems incredible that there are only 150 businesses there - even our little village here has more businesses than that albeit most are agriculture related. I would have thought there were literally hundreds of guest houses & b&b's in and around Whitby - the North York Moors are chock full of such places - and they could all do with a website even if they don't realise it yet!

 

[grangejoinery]

I would love to have a better website then ours www.grangejoinery.co.uk as I built it myself as can't afford to pay someone to do it for us at present, but would be more than willing to have someone build a new one for us and advertise their site on ours rather then charging us for their time. I would also be willing to pay 10% of any profit from work generated by the new website if anyone is interested in such an arrangement?

Trouble is people in this market want all the money upfront and they are talking of prices like £250.00 for a basic site and £1000.00 for an ecommerce site which is well over my budget at present. There is a recession on in the UK at present and we are struggling for work at present and it's only a matter of time before this hits web designers etc!

 

[JADEMEDIA]

ESK. You keep knocing Whitby. Am I not right in thinking famous for fresh fish. Now theres an idea.

 

[creospace]

There is a recession on in the UK at present and we are struggling for work at present and it's only a matter of time before this hits web designers etc!

Building trade and web design are very different.

There are many ways it could go but I think it will cut the wheat from the chaff. 2 bob 'web designers' who have just got by will fall by the wayside I think as companies look really carefully at their internet based marketing.

Firms can no longer afford to buy cheap and if it fails go get someone proper to do it - they need to get it right first time to stand a chance of winning every deal from every visitor who is only a click away from their competitors.

£250 wouldn't probably cover our graphic design charge let alone building the site and e-commerce well 1000 wont get you much. If you think we're expensive then read this thread where the OP's investment is still paying off over 2 years later.

 

[Esk247]

yes i should get out a bit more shouldnt i

Just seen in the local paper another website designer setting up across the river...that makes it 10 web design companies in 4 square miles.

With Whitby the problem is thus:

People want websites but they don't go on quality they go on price (in general), they want cheap cheap cheap and they really don't mind if it looks cheap, its a website, thats the bit they cling on to! Some of my customers go for quality above price but 9 out of 10 want something for around £5.99 per month and it only needs to be 2 pages with contact details..a little picture..some writing..all html no flash or animations or logo's. thats what they want...when i started i charged per hour, £25! i've had to slash that because i had no interest what so ever and with the competition in the area being so high i've really dropped prices ready for 2009.

I have no intention of making Esk247 my be all and end all business..i want it to tick over and give me monthly payments and thats all..i have other business ideas that are in the pipe line which will generate bigger revenue for me.

Whitby is the oddest place you'll ever work in...even my Prince's Trust mentor and the marketing students from Middlesbrough can't crack it...it works purely on price! not quality...a website is a website end of...if you came here and charged £1000 up front for a website..you're stuffed!

I don't charge up front..I ask for £45 once the initial design is drawn up to pay for a hosting space and then the customer can decide to move things around or send me some photo's etc and then they set up direct debit payments of say £9.99 or whatever depending on the size and quality of the website.


bit long that but i feel i need to explain my position a bit! i've been here 3 years and i'm not the only one that struggles here believe me. and yes there are 150 commercial businesses and around 100 additional hotels and bnb's but 90% already have a website.

 

[Marzipan]

But why limit yourself only to Whitby, Esk? Not having a pop at you or anything, just genuinely taken aback that someone working in a field that isn't geography-specific seems to limit themselves in much the same way as the local hairdresser would (for instance)?

You run your business how it best suits you, naturally, but you've made several references in not just this thread to the fact that your location is so limiting in terms of how little business there is to be had there and how little you can charge for it - and I just don't understand why you don't go further afield, it's not like you have to physically go there.

 

[zoezoe]

I would love to have a better website then ours www.grangejoinery.co.uk as I built it myself as can't afford to pay someone to do it for us at present, but would be more than willing to have someone build a new one for us and advertise their site on ours rather then charging us for their time. I would also be willing to pay 10% of any profit from work generated by the new website if anyone is interested in such an arrangement?

Trouble is people in this market want all the money upfront and they are talking of prices like £250.00 for a basic site and £1000.00 for an ecommerce site which is well over my budget at present. There is a recession on in the UK at present and we are struggling for work at present and it's only a matter of time before this hits web designers etc!

I dont get this. having a good website will earn you more money, if you spent a grand on a decent website (we did this one a few months back in simular industry to yours http://www.twfg.co.uk/) then you would more than make the money back.

its just good business sence, cutting back on promotion and advertising at a time like this is a really bad idea.

 

[Esk247]

yes don't cut back on advertising...its a bad idea...perhaps alter your advertising to yield better results and more conversions (e.g. enquiry to paying customer)

cutting back on advertising is what you shouldn't do because you need more customers not less

 

[Esk247]

But why limit yourself only to Whitby, Esk? Not having a pop at you or anything, just genuinely taken aback that someone working in a field that isn't geography-specific seems to limit themselves in much the same way as the local hairdresser would (for instance)?

You run your business how it best suits you, naturally, but you've made several references in not just this thread to the fact that your location is so limiting in terms of how little business there is to be had there and how little you can charge for it - and I just don't understand why you don't go further afield, it's not like you have to physically go there.

i understand what you're saying...but looking at this in the way i've experienced..heading north we have Middlesbrough, good for a big customer base, its virtually a city, however it has more web designers and student businesses than you can shake a stick at..i've already been eaten alive in that area. Hartlepool i have a few customers there now but thats from word of mouth and through friends rather than advertising that i've done that way over...scarborough to the south..25 web designers and freelancers offering a wide range of hosting and domain packages. They compete on price too.

York - too far to be considered viable..takes 1 hour minimum to reach the outskirts and that would eat in to my petrol allowance, takes a whole afternoon to complete just one meeting, 2 hours travel.

The rail link in Whitby only goes to middlesbrough and there are just 3 trains a day. The bus service is now once every 2 hours if that and is usually over crowded so the car is the only way to travel and unless i charge 50p per mile before the customer has even ordered anything then i'm out of pocket and may still not make a close on a sale.

There is simply too much competition for web design services in this area...one guy is doing free websites now with free hosting off his own server..he's retired so doesn't need to make any money!

 

[Matt1959]

Esk, who's fault do you think it is that things have turned out this way for your web design biz? sounds like your explanation is that people in Whitby are skinflints:|

 

[Marzipan]

Dear Esk, I must be being overly simplistic because it wouldn't occur to me that a face to face meeting with a web designer would be necessary - nice yes but essential no. But if this is what you do then it makes your low pricing all the more incredible.

However, I admit defeat and will slink quietly away....

 

[Esk247]

Esk, who's fault do you think it is that things have turned out this way for your web design biz? sounds like your explanation is that people in Whitby are skinflints:|

well you can't walk in to a business in whitby offering website design and then say oh but its going to cost you £750...they'll just tell you to get out.

like when we did a bit of telesales locally a year or so ago...2 put the phone down straight away and the rest said they dont need a website or unless it was free they werent interested because they're doing fine without one.

it was the same with the online directory that i used to have..whitby247...it was only £6 for the year and that included a full page with opening times, contact details, promotional banners..restaurants could display their full menu and update it as often as they wanted...they could include as much information on the single page as they wanted...only 3 businesses paid..the rest wanted it free as a service for them.

I'm not the only one struggling though..thats my point...we are all battling and doing work at rock bottom prices! many of the web designers now offer home tuition and software packages to make up the money. the other thing is..once a website has been designed..very few want it updated..so 3 years ago there was a lot of work..i had a website every week...now...everyone has a website pretty much! even if it isn't very good.

 

[Esk247]

Dear Esk, I must be being overly simplistic because it wouldn't occur to me that a face to face meeting with a web designer would be necessary - nice yes but essential no. But if this is what you do then it makes your low pricing all the more incredible.

However, I admit defeat and will slink quietly away....

i knew people would say that i always meet with the client if possible...i want to have a chat with them, show them some designs in person, introduce myself..i'm not just going to build a website and then bugger off...i want to be a part of there marketing in the future..it does work..3 clients i consider permanent clients..they would choose my business over others even if i increase the price and they've said thats fine because i always meet them, i'm available 24 hours day.

and most of my other customers are not exactly net savvy..they've only just got to grips with email..so deciding on colour schemes, imaging, banners, flash pages etc is a no go..its easier just to turn up with the laptop and show them what they can have.

 

[streetslocal]

i knew people would say that i always meet with the client if possible...i want to have a chat with them, show them some designs in person, introduce myself..i'm not just going to build a website and then bugger off...i want to be a part of there marketing in the future..it does work..3 clients i consider permanent clients..they would choose my business over others even if i increase the price and they've said thats fine because i always meet them, i'm available 24 hours day.

and most of my other customers are not exactly net savvy..they've only just got to grips with email..so deciding on colour schemes, imaging, banners, flash pages etc is a no go..its easier just to turn up with the laptop and show them what they can have.

Thing is as a client i may not want a meeting and i may see it as a sales pitch and not want to use you...
I suggest maybe offering a national design service and then offer personal visits on bespoke work over a set budget,it may be a way of pushing prices up.

 

[Esk247]

Thing is as a client i may not want a meeting and i may see it as a sales pitch and not want to use you...
I suggest maybe offering a national design service and then offer personal visits on bespoke work over a set budget,it may be a way of pushing prices up.

i'm thinking of giving this a go for 2009 actually..change of direction from local (which is now exhausted) to more national advertising... I'll still compete on price as i'm not a full website designer and if i ever receive an order for a big, complicated, database driven website i pass it on to the professionals and charge a small fee for doing so.

havent worked out how i'm going to target nationally..my budget for Esk247 is rather skinny to say the least...i shouldn't of over spent on the local advertising but hey ho learn from my mistakes.

 

[KidsBeeHappy]

Dear Esk, I must be being overly simplistic because it wouldn't occur to me that a face to face meeting with a web designer would be necessary - nice yes but essential no. But if this is what you do then it makes your low pricing all the more incredible.

However, I admit defeat and will slink quietly away....

Hi Esk

I have worked with quite a lot of developers and designers over the past year. I've done quite a lot of work with Kay (Calibre Designs) and never met him, I've done some work with Fiscix and never met him, i've done work with a company in Nairn, and never met them. I've done lots of work 10months worth, with Julian Ross, and only met him once.

I did have a local developer who we met regularly with, and to be honest, it was the least productive relationship of the lot.

The crux to it is having a clear focus of what it is exactly that you want/need and lots of short quick emails, rather than the long ones that cover lots of issues, quick fire bullet points that address any concerns/issues then and there straight away.

I like working with local companies, but because of our geography and my family circumstances - it doesn't suit me to loose a whole day for a meeting - then i tend to work by email and phone.

 

[Esk247]

interesting info Boxby.

i've got too honed in on Whitby and meeting customers here because that is what they do here..its the whitby way..you don't deal by telephone or email crikey no..you meet in a pub and debate over a price!

i must remember that people outside Whitby don't do that...i'll have a little look in to how i'm going to plan 2009 and see where there may be gaps in the market outside of my current location.

its just a case of finding potential leads..i'm sure with my very laid back approach and experience of dealing with different age groups of people, that any lead would turn in to a sale.

food for thought.

 

[creospace]

well you can't walk in to a business in whitby offering website design and then say oh but its going to cost you £750...they'll just tell you to get out.

Your problem is your outlook at people in Whitby. There are skinflints everywhere and those who don't have a vision for good quality or value for money.

If you keep leaving peanuts out for bait you're only going to attract monkeys. (hope that analogy makes sense)

Change your outlook. There are plenty of businesses everywhere who wont choose you simply because you're too cheap and cheapness is associated with bad quality in some circles. These businesses do exist in Whitby believe it or not.

If I were from Whitby and reading this I'd be offended I think

 

[Matt1959]

following all these comments about Whitby, I thought the place was in dire poverty. Checking Rightmove, the price of 3 bed houses start at £135K which is dearer than where we are (and thats considered pretty affluent) so as house prices seem to be an indicator of what wealth the area has, I'm puzzled about the poor Whitby comments (if its Whitby Yorkshire that is)

 

[maria102]

So, just out of interest, did Boxby get a Cheap & Cheerful webdesigner?!

 

[creospace]

So, just out of interest, did Boxby get a Cheap & Cheerful webdesigner?!

Come on Maria, keep the thread on topic please

 

[SLF]

Yes, it should be done by now, in fact it should have risen with the speed of the tide at whitby for £50!

 

[Simon-M]

If I were from Whitby and reading this I'd be offended I think

You should get out more I am going to put my reputation as a good judge of character on the line here and say that "Most people from Whitby would not give a damn one way or the other" after reading this .

In the grand scheme of thisngs I am sure this one will not be a big Whitby talking point. Not even a small one.

 

[streetslocal]

Come on Maria, keep the thread on topic please

Oh dear lol

 

[Esk247]

the house prices are high but the average wage in whitby is low...i don't mean the people are skinflints actually..what i mean is that the only jobs in whitby are small shop jobs and summer jobs, its a tourist town, a small fishing fleet, hundreds of years of history but very few new businesses in the area.

like i say..i'm not the only one struggling, with rents of £20k per year in town i think many shops are balanced on a knife edge..if we have a poor summer then i think lots of stores could go up for sale here.

there is also a high student population here so that means lots of cheap labour for the biggest stores in town, there are currently something like 6 jobs available in the whole area..3 are part time. with 26 being made unemployed by woolworths this week it shows how bad things are right now.

but back on topic..we all want to see the boxby website and compare it against a more expensive variety.

 

[streetslocal]

the house prices are high but the average wage in whitby is low...i don't mean the people are skinflints actually..what i mean is that the only jobs in whitby are small shop jobs and summer jobs, its a tourist town, a small fishing fleet, hundreds of years of history but very few new businesses in the area.

like i say..i'm not the only one struggling, with rents of £20k per year in town i think many shops are balanced on a knife edge..if we have a poor summer then i think lots of stores could go up for sale here.

there is also a high student population here so that means lots of cheap labour for the biggest stores in town, there are currently something like 6 jobs available in the whole area..3 are part time. with 26 being made unemployed by woolworths this week it shows how bad things are right now.

but back on topic..we all want to see the boxby website and compare it against a more expensive variety.

You should work for whitby tourist board

 

I can see where your coming from as I live in a small seaside town close to London.

Very high house prices as most are bought by Londoners and very low wages for the locals.

A melancholic paradise in winter and a carnival town in the summer.#

Not your average business environment.

Earl

 

[KidsBeeHappy]

I've a few PMs which I am going to follow up on Monday.
It's been interesting

 

[Esk247]

I can see where your coming from as I live in a small seaside town close to London.

Very high house prices as most are bought by Londoners and very low wages for the locals.

A melancholic paradise in winter and a carnival town in the summer.#

Not your average business environment.

Earl

thats exactly what i mean...its totally sparse at the moment...there are the people coming in from middlesbrough for a day out in quaint little whitby..but as for website design...several shops don't even have a telephone or credit card machine. oh well..i must stop complaining and actually get out and do something about it. better late than never.

 

thats exactly what i mean...its totally sparse at the moment...there are the people coming in from middlesbrough for a day out in quaint little whitby..but as for website design...several shops don't even have a telephone or credit card machine. oh well..i must stop complaining and actually get out and do something about it. better late than never.

But remember you live in a very nice environment ,unlike those unlucky sods that earn 1 million a year but have to live in that tip they call London.

Earl

 

[Esk247]

But remember you live in a very nice environment ,unlike those unlucky sods that earn 1 million a year but have to live in that tip they call London.

Earl

to true! i remember in the summer...not being able to sleep for some reason..going for a drive at 4am and then sitting by the sea front! like something from a movie..no cars, no people, just the sea and the sunrise nothing better to beat stress.

way off topic though.

 

[Nick63]

Sometimes cheap means low quality.