Accountants what you love and what you hate.

[GriffithAccts]

As a modern accountancy practice, we try to do things different to everyone else. We offer all the normal services, plus also forecast, thinking ahead and even ESG services. Our key owners are themselves very entrepreneurial, and have worked as CFOs in ecommerce companies like eBay. I would like to hear what people like and what people dislike when they think "accountant". This goes into our ethos and our outlooks. How can our profession position themselves better to think more for clients? I see an accountant, as a business partner or mini CFO to a company they are engaged to. It is offering advice, it is being there when they need. Does everyone agree?

 

[cjd]

If you see yourself as a business partner and a 'mini CFO' you need to stop sending your clients that massive disclaimer contract removing yourself from all responsibility for what the business does using your advice and the number you provide ;-)

Seriously, my accountancy firm is incredibly good - they're brilliant at handling the nitty gritty of financial accounting, bookkeeping, payroll, basic VAT, Tax, pensions and even some aspects of management accounting - but certainly not forecasting; you can't outsource that.

They take all the financial load of us, but they haven't the first clue about about telephony - except they use our services - they're my outsourced accounts department but they don't get involved with the strategic direction of they business- they can't because they don't know how and neither should they.

 

[fisicx]

My accountant does the accounts, tells me how much tax I have to pay and looks after all HMRC and CH submissions.

I don’t want a CFO or business partner. I just want them to do the job I pay them for. I certainly don’t want them to think differently. I don’t care about their ethos. Just be a good accountant. Be boring.

 

[WaveJumper]

All of the above, and answer emails and pick up the phone when you need to contact them. Said it many a time on here never pick the first one "interview" many, make sure they understand your needs and you can work with them.

 

[cjd]

Yes, being able to call them and discuss financial stuff whenever I need to without thinking that there's a clock running is important to me. (We pay ours a retainer for 'full service') We also get included tax investigation insurance which is a 'sleep well at night benefit.'

 

[fisicx]

My accountant is local. It means we can meet and talk about money matters over tea and cake. I know everything can be done online but I get a lot of paper invoices from various tradespeople so end up with ring binders of documents to hand over. Don’t have to faff about with scanning and accounting software.

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

Awww I thought it was a question for accountants when I first saw it. My immediate thought was...HMRC

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

Awww I thought it was a question for accountants when I first saw it. My immediate thought was...HMRC

and to be clear I was answering the later part of the question

 

[Mark T Jones]

Given that the majority of small businesses (including mine) are actually micro businesses, I'd suggest that most just want what @fisicx has said. (More accurately, that's what they are prepared to pay for).

There are other, more aspirational businesses who actually want/need a virtual FD, who presumably be your target market.

One consistent problem I see with accountant/client relations is communication, and particularly expectation management. Obviously it's a 2-sided thing, but I feel that accountants should take responsibility for making very clear what the scope & limitations of the relationship are.

 

[Newchodge]

As a modern accountancy practice, we try to do things different to everyone else. We offer all the normal services, plus also forecast, thinking ahead and even ESG services. Our key owners are themselves very entrepreneurial, and have worked as CFOs in ecommerce companies like eBay. I would like to hear what people like and what people dislike when they think "accountant". This goes into our ethos and our outlooks. How can our profession position themselves better to think more for clients? I see an accountant, as a business partner or mini CFO to a company they are engaged to. It is offering advice, it is being there when they need. Does everyone agree?

I hate to see accountant starting a 'discussion' in order to advertise themselves, against the rules.

 

[Daybooks]

Yes, being able to call them and discuss financial stuff whenever I need to without thinking that there's a clock running is important to me. (We pay ours a retainer for 'full service') We also get included tax investigation insurance which is a 'sleep well at night benefit.'

You’ll sleep sounder knowing that your tax affairs are in order.

The insurance may pay for some of their time in dealing with HMRC on your behalf but it won’t immune you from any consequences.

 

[RobPickering]

I'm surprised no one else has said it, so I will: Learn to speak English, ie speak with language that a typical client can understand. I often end up as the translator. Not in issue with larger businesses, but for most Micro businesses, ie 96% of them, their annual accounts review is a time they dread when they sit there and listen to the accountant-speak and hope to be nodding and smiling in the right places, then walk out muttering "I've no idea what that was about".
I would recommend that you help them with the basics that so many get wrong at least in the first years. Give them a document or a portal that shows them an estimate of CT and when it will need to be paid, and similarly VAT and personal tax. So many startups literally don't know that they will have a personal tax bill, they've been used to PAYE. Encourage them to open accounts for CT, VAT and a personal one for tax. These days they might even be able to earn some interest. Help and encourage them to know how much to set aside each month into those accounts. It's failure to do these basic things - which are a total mystery to start-ups - that causes the highest stress and misery. Make it easy and keep it simple.
As for being a "Mini CTO", some will want it, some will not, as you've seen from other responses. The people commenting here are likely so experienced that they absolutely don't want you to deviate from the basics. And those who need it most are unlikely to understand what you are offering or be willing/able to afford it.
And for what it's worth... I actually really like working with accountants and value what they do. Just wish they would be more relevant in the ways they help clients and take responsibility for good communication.

 

[Ziggy2024]

As a modern accountancy practice, we try to do things different to everyone else. We offer all the normal services, plus also forecast, thinking ahead and even ESG services. Our key owners are themselves very entrepreneurial, and have worked as CFOs in ecommerce companies like eBay. I would like to hear what people like and what people dislike when they think "accountant". This goes into our ethos and our outlooks. How can our profession position themselves better to think more for clients? I see an accountant, as a business partner or mini CFO to a company they are engaged to. It is offering advice, it is being there when they need. Does everyone agree?

Sorry if this takes the thread off in a tangent but I'm interested in what you do differently?

Linkedin and other social media platforms have many accountants who claim to be "disruptors" and "fresh thinking" accountants. I'm not actually sure what they mean or what they are doing differently to the "dinosaurs" that they often reference. (Hate that term by the way, its just disrespectful IMO).

 

[Mark T Jones]

Sorry if this takes the thread off in a tangent but I'm interested in what you do differently?

Linkedin and other social media platforms have many accountants who claim to be "disruptors" and "fresh thinking" accountants. I'm not actually sure what they mean or what they are doing differently to the "dinosaurs" that they often reference. (Hate that term by the way, its just disrespectful IMO).

'Proactive' seems to be the current cliche of choice

From experience there actually are 2 types - being either very much just number bods, or actual hands-on advisors (with the quality of advice being variable).

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

A mate's former accountant 'sit's there in a grey suit with a grey tie and grey complexion, reads out some numbers and asks me 'to sign here'.

I recommended he try mine...

My accountant will look at my books, talk about any aspirations or plans I may have and suggest ways to become more tax efficient by eg., buying a new van.

 

[DWS]

A mate's former accountant 'sit's there in a grey suit with a grey tie and grey complexion, reads out some numbers and asks me 'to sign here'.

I recommended he try mine...

My accountant will look at my books, talk about any aspirations or plans I may have and suggest ways to become more tax efficient by eg., buying a new van.

Which is okay as long as you need a new van!
Buying one just to reduce your tax liability is a false economy in my opinion.

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

Prefer the term "Business & Tax Consultants" rather than Accountants.

- now that's forward thinking

 

[Daybooks]

Prefer the term "Business & Tax Consultants" rather than Accountants.

- now that's forward thinking

Says “UK Contractor Accountant”

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

Says “UK Contractor Accountant”

That's for UKBF only

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Which is okay as long as you need a new van!
Buying one just to reduce your tax liability is a false economy in my opinion.

So buying a smaller van on different terms wouldn't be seen as tax efficient?

 

[Newchodge]

So buying a smaller van on different terms wouldn't be seen as tax efficient?

If you don't need a van at all, then no it would not!

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

If you don't need a van at all, then no it would not!

Where did you get the idea that a van wasn't needed, and just to clarify it was an example as in eg., buy a new van instead of using your family car, buy a new van instead of paying heavy repair bills and high insurance on an old one.

The point I was making is that my accountant takes an interest in the business.

 

[DWS]

So buying a smaller van on different terms wouldn't be seen as tax efficient?

Maybe, maybe not depends on the scenario and lots of things need to be considered not just the tax side, tax efficiency does not always make the best business sense.
Too many people in my opinion waste money buying unnecessary assets just to reduce the tax liability, which is madness, assets should be bought because they are needed not to save tax, what is the point in spending £50k to possibly only save yourself £10k?

 

[Chris Ashdown]

A clear list of what the accountant will doas standard and a further list of what else they can do with a price guide
Many posters on this forum as new business owners seem to expect their end of year accounts done at the agreed price and then expect lots of free additional assistance
To me it would be wise to quote for new startups to be offered either 1 or 2 days assistance so they can learn to use their accounting system to enter invoices and payments plus maybe wages etc for a fixed price (assuming the accountant knows the software)

 

[Daybooks]

A clear list of what the accountant will doas standard and a further list of what else they can do with a price guide
Many posters on this forum as new business owners seem to expect their end of year accounts done at the agreed price and then expect lots of free additional assistance
To me it would be wise to quote for new startups to be offered either 1 or 2 days assistance so they can learn to use their accounting system to enter invoices and payments plus maybe wages etc for a fixed price (assuming the accountant knows the software)

The good accountant will have this covered in their letter of engagement; but it won’t stop the expectation.

I am always wary of claims to be “specialists” of one software or another. Not because the accountant or bookkeeper is not knowledgeable in that system but simply because any good accountant or bookkeeper will be knowledgeable in all accounting systems as they know how it is to work. I do accept that some online systems go out of their way to make its use difficult though.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Maybe, maybe not depends on the scenario and lots of things need to be considered not just the tax side, tax efficiency does not always make the best business sense.
Too many people in my opinion waste money buying unnecessary assets just to reduce the tax liability, which is madness, assets should be bought because they are needed not to save tax, what is the point in spending £50k to possibly only save yourself £10k?

Who said the new van would be an unnecessary asset?

Stating the obvious but a smaller van in most cases is less expensive, cheaper to run etc., A new one would allow unfettered travel into ULEZ zones, presentation of the company would be improved and a saving against tax may be made.

I worked in advertising sales for many years, an industry where the buyers accountants were seen as the enemy. 'My accountant says I'm spending too much money on advertising', was often a short sighted quick fix, more often than not backed up with zero actual statistics
Being able to have a conversation with my accountant so they understand the business, is a mutually important part of the arrangement.

 

[DWS]

Who said the new van would be an unnecessary asset?

Stating the obvious but a smaller van in most cases is less expensive, cheaper to run etc., A new one would allow unfettered travel into ULEZ zones, presentation of the company would be improved and a saving against tax may be made.

I worked in advertising sales for many years, an industry where the buyers accountants were seen as the enemy. 'My accountant says I'm spending too much money on advertising', was often a short sighted quick fix, more often than not backed up with zero actual statistics
Being able to have a conversation with my accountant so they understand the business, is a mutually important part of the arrangement.

No one said that ‘you’ buying a new van was an unnecessary asset, if you need a new van then fine but as I have said too many businesses think that because buying assets may reduce their tax liability then it is worth doing without considering the overall impact on their business.

 

[Ziggy2024]

I worked in advertising sales for many years, an industry where the buyers accountants were seen as the enemy. 'My accountant says I'm spending too much money on advertising', was often a short sighted quick fix, more often than not backed up with zero actual statistics
Being able to have a conversation with my accountant so they understand the business, is a mutually important part of the arrangement.

The other side of this coin is when clients blame the accountant instead of admitting that they either don't want the product you're selling or they don't have the cash.

100% agree that the accountant should understand the business although they will never be an expert in your business and should never be seen as such.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

100% agree that the accountant should understand the business although they will never be an expert in your business and should never be seen as such.

Is that really possible for companies say under £1 million turnover, accountants may well have 100-200 clients with many just paying for year end reports

 

[Ziggy2024]

Is that really possible for companies say under £1 million turnover, accountants may well have 100-200 clients with many just paying for year end reports

Yes, absolutely. Not an in depth knowledge (because that is the directors remit) but a broad understanding of the business is necessary to do the job.

 

[fisicx]

Yes, absolutely. Not an in depth knowledge (because that is the directors remit) but a broad understanding of the business is necessary to do the job.

I build Wordpress plugins (among other things). My accountant hasn’t got a clue about how I do this. He doesn’t know about servers, subversion, git, patches, updates and the multitude of things needed to run the business. Even trying to explain the basics leaves him confused. But he is superb at knowing how to save me money.

 

[Ziggy2024]

I build Wordpress plugins (among other things). My accountant hasn’t got a clue about how I do this. He doesn’t know about servers, subversion, git, patches, updates and the multitude of things needed to run the business. Even trying to explain the basics leaves him confused. But he is superb at knowing how to save me money.

If he knows how to save you money then he knows enough. Perhaps a more knowledgeable accountant could save you even more.

 

[fisicx]

If he knows how to save you money then he knows enough. Perhaps a more knowledgeable accountant could save you even more.

He has hundreds of clients with all sorts of businesses. I doubt he could keep up to date with just a fraction of these.

 

[Ziggy2024]

He has hundreds of clients with all sorts of businesses. I doubt he could keep up to date with just a fraction of these.

With all due respect it is part of the job. A good accountant HAS to look beyond the figures to know what is the best advice for their client.

 

[Daybooks]

With all due respect it is part of the job. A good accountant HAS to look beyond the figures to know what is the best advice for their client.

It is also worth remembering that you do not save money by paying the right amount of tax.

 

[Newchodge]

It is also worth remembering that you do not save money by paying the right amount of tax.

? But you also don't commit fraud.

 

[Ziggy2024]

It is also worth remembering that you do not save money by paying the right amount of tax.

The two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. If you're paying too much tax because you aren't aware a certain expense is deductible for tax then you will save money by paying the right amount of tax!

 

[Daybooks]

The two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. If you're paying too much tax because you aren't aware a certain expense is deductible for tax then you will save money by paying the right amount of tax!

That is another issue. But the correct amount for the correct tax position hasn’t changed.