Online selling - your own website or better to use Shopify, Wix or similar ?

[Byzantium]

We have a half decent website which was designed 3 or 4 years ago and which performed well up to and through covid but which has seen declining sales since 2020. Google Ads spend has not tapered off proportionally but we get advice on this side of things.

Our competitors have all raised their prices (average sale £200-£300) by between 10% to 15% and we have not which should make us more attractive on price. No competitor has introduced new products and no-one has a new, massively fantastic website. In fact, our website still looks better than the competition in many ways.

However, I am considering whether we should move to a simpler sales channel using an online shop from Shopify, Wix or similar and just piggy back o their technology and remove that constant problem of updating. It would also allow me the option to make changes to the website as and when I chose rather than having to ask for IT help to do so.

So what are the pros and cons of using one of these Shopify type sites over designing your own as from the outside, they look far easier.

From a marketing perspective and using Google Ads, does it make any difference ?

 

[Pviegas]

Hello, Byzantium!

As a developer, I understand the temptation to switch to platforms like Shopify or Wix due to their simplicity and the ability to make changes on your own. But here are some technical points to consider.
Switching to a new platform or design can have implications for your visibility on Google. If you've previously run promotions, events or any specific content that was accessed via direct links, it's crucial to ensure that when making the change, these old links don't result in a "Error 404 - Not Found" page. 404 errors are not just frustrating for visitors but can also negatively impact your Google ranking.
Furthermore, it's wise to think about flexibility and scalability. Ready-made platforms are great, but they can sometimes be limiting in terms of customisation or specific integrations you might need in the future.
Lastly, while user-friendliness is a huge advantage of these platforms, optimisation for search engines (SEO) might require a bit more effort and specific knowledge. Even if I'm not an SEO specialist, I know that continuity is key to maintaining and improving your online visibility.

 

[Byzantium]

Hello, Byzantium!

As a developer, I understand the temptation to switch to platforms like Shopify or Wix due to their simplicity and the ability to make changes on your own. But here are some technical points to consider.
Switching to a new platform or design can have implications for your visibility on Google. If you've previously run promotions, events or any specific content that was accessed via direct links, it's crucial to ensure that when making the change, these old links don't result in a "Error 404 - Not Found" page. 404 errors are not just frustrating for visitors but can also negatively impact your Google ranking.
Furthermore, it's wise to think about flexibility and scalability. Ready-made platforms are great, but they can sometimes be limiting in terms of customisation or specific integrations you might need in the future.
Lastly, while user-friendliness is a huge advantage of these platforms, optimisation for search engines (SEO) might require a bit more effort and specific knowledge. Even if I'm not an SEO specialist, I know that continuity is key to maintaining and improving your online visibility.

Hmmm, as a friend once said to me "if you ain't paying, they ain't looking" when referring to Google Ads.

We don't do anything complicated and as far as I am aware, we have no legacy issues which will result in errors from missing pages etc.

Of course, all the Google Ads stuff would need to be rewritten but I am on the fence whether with the recent and in flight changes at Google Ads, trying to "beat Google" with paid for assistance versus just letting Google spend your budget actually makes sense now.

We sell a handful of products with a few variations in some of them. Nothing rocket science.

SEO is somewhat meaningless if you are using paid for ads and worrying about it equally pointless.

I think about it in the same was a manual gearbox in a car. If they had invented good enough automatic gearboxes way back when, no-one would ever have thought to design a manual gearbox would they ?

 

[WaveJumper]

Welcome to the UKBF I cannot give you any 'technical' advice, but having a look at your website I am not sure its doing you any justice pretty sure others will come along with a view on this but for me I want to know what your company does and services it offers, but when I hit your web page I see streams of "about me" in my mind for what its worth thats the last tab I want to view.

 

[fisicx]

Not looked at your site (website reviews are only permitted for business members) but the decline in sales is often a combination of factors.

Start with your site analytics and look at where people land. See if they bounce off or browse and leave.

Then look at your marketing, are you appearing in Google searches, are you running banner ads on appropriate sites, sending out emails, providing expert help on relevant forums. Do you even need Google ads? How do you know the current ads are performing as well as they could.

Moving to a new platform could work but it may be totally unnecessary.

 

[Byzantium]

Welcome to the UKBF I cannot give you any 'technical' advice, but having a look at your website I am not sure its doing you any justice pretty sure others will come along with a view on this but for me I want to know what your company does and services it offers, but when I hit your web page I see streams of "about me" in my mind for what its worth thats the last tab I want to view.

Not sure what you are looking at because you have no idea what my website is as I have not disclosed it here or in a profile.

 

[Byzantium]

Not looked at your site (website reviews are only permitted for business members) but the decline in sales is often a combination of factors.

Start with your site analytics and look at where people land. See if they bounce off or browse and leave.

Then look at your marketing, are you appearing in Google searches, are you running banner ads on appropriate sites, sending out emails, providing expert help on relevant forums. Do you even need Google ads? How do you know the current ads are performing as well as they could.

Moving to a new platform could work but it may be totally unnecessary.

We pay for Google Ads and rank top on paid search most of the time and our organic ranking is reasonably good as well.

I cannot comment (yet) on where people land or whether they bounce or what would be good or bad in comparison. That is a learning curve I am yet to climb.

We don't use push advertising as it doesn't work for us (Facebook in the main) so we are really only on search.

I did a speed test on pagespeed.web.dev and we scored 31 on mobile and 79 on desktop (I only found these metrics from another post here yesterday) but I don't really understand what that really means, other than I assume 100 is good

Other metrics

First Contentful Paint
3.1 s

Largest Contentful Paint
12.3 s

Total Blocking Time
3,120 ms

Cumulative Layout Shift
0.024

Speed Index
9.3 s

 

[Shopclicks]

I did a speed test on pagespeed.web.dev and we scored 31 on mobile and 79 on desktop (I only found these metrics from another post here yesterday) but I don't really understand what that really means, other than I assume 100 is good

Firstly, you can't expect improvement in your website page load speed by switching to a template builder like Shopify or Wix. It will more than likely slow your page load speed down.

What a lot of people don't understand about Google Ads is that, your Ad Quality score can directly impact both the price you pay and your Ad position. Your Ad Quality is, in part based on the user experience once visitors land on your page. Page Experience is based on the factors you mention above (Core Web Vitals).

Part of Google's mission is to deliver the best search experience and that means sending people to the best websites to answer their search query. This includes users who click on sponsored Ads. Slow loading websites deliver a poor experience and so you pay more for position to offset your quality score.

 

[Byzantium]

Firstly, you can't expect improvement in your website page load speed by switching to a template builder like Shopify or Wix. It will more than likely slow your page load speed down.

What a lot of people don't understand about Google Ads is that, your Ad Quality score can directly impact both the price you pay and your Ad position. Your Ad Quality is, in part based on the user experience once visitors land on your page. Page Experience is based on the factors you mention above (Core Web Vitals).

Part of Google's mission is to deliver the best search experience and that means sending people to the best websites to answer their search query. This includes users who click on sponsored Ads. Slow loading websites deliver a poor experience and so you pay more for position to offset your quality score.

OK, I understand that but the argument about a template build website automatically being slower has been debunked in other threads in this forum.

I agree with your comments about quality, price, etc. etc. but none of that translates to falling sales when we are still top in paid search and ranking well organically.

If we were not so highly ranked and had to pay more to rank higher, it would have zero effect on conversions other than the cost of acquisition would be more.

My hypothesis to try a website builder or more precisely an online shop is that currently all the tech and dev is out of my hands and clearly what is being done isn't working.

 

[Shopclicks]

OK, I understand that but the argument about a template build website automatically being slower has been debunked in other threads in this forum.

I very much doubt this. This would only be the case where an open source site performs poorly in the first place (because of poor optimisation). As displayed in your performance score.

I agree with your comments about quality, price, etc. etc. but none of that translates to falling sales when we are still top in paid search and ranking well organically.

You will be paying more for this top position than you need to be. Your organic ranking is not directly correlated to your performance score (Core Web Vitals). It's only one factor which influences organic position amongst hundreds of other factors.

If we were not so highly ranked and had to pay more to rank higher, it would have zero effect on conversions other than the cost of acquisition would be more.

The further down the page your Ads appear, the less likely you are to convert. The intent to purchase gets lower as you get into comparision/browsing/tyre kicking audiences. The top couple of positions get the serious buyers. If you can convert from Ads, your offer must be what people are looking for.

My hypothesis to try a website builder or more precisely an online shop is that currently all the tech and dev is out of my hands and clearly what is being done isn't working.

An open source site (no idea which one you're using) like Wordpress/Woocommerce, can be set up, so that the dashboard experience is no different to a template builder.

 

[Byzantium]

I very much doubt this. This would only be the case where an open source site performs poorly in the first place (because of poor optimisation). As displayed in your performance score.


You will be paying more for this top position than you need to be. Your organic ranking is not directly correlated to your performance score (Core Web Vitals). It's only one factor which influences organic position amongst hundreds of other factors.


The further down the page your Ads appear, the less likely you are to convert. The intent to purchase gets lower as you get into comparision/browsing/tyre kicking audiences. The top couple of positions get the serious buyers. If you can convert from Ads, your offer must be what people are looking for.


An open source site (no idea which one you're using) like Wordpress/Woocommerce, can be set up, so that the dashboard experience is no different to a template builder.

On the speed of Shopify, I took my lead from here www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/threads/shopify-site-speed-drop-what-would-you-do.423410/ and a poster called fisicx.

You also seem to be somewhat fixated on cost. That is not my argument here, though I agree with your logic obsoletely and it would be another argument for a different thread if we were overpaying but converting but we are not converting or perhaps not even driving enough traffic.

We're not further down the page, we're top of the page, bang top and centre for paid search and about 1st to 3rd on organic listings most times.

I appreciate I could, or rather I couldn't but I know experts can make and Woo this or Wordpress that look like anything but I cannot design, manage or update that and thus it is out of scope.

The hypothesis is that assuming no loss of technical performance in a Shopify store versus a ground up built bespoke site, that Shopify has to get things right or people leave whereas a designer can keep tinkering but never fix the issue and the owner cannot step in and take back control because it is far too technical to manage.

 

[fisicx]

Changing to a new platform will not help your falling sales. What it will do it lose you all your ranking and probably affect your Google ads.

As I said in my other reply to you, do some analytics. Find out why sales are falling and apply the necessary fixes.

 

[Shopclicks]

The hypothesis is that assuming no loss of technical performance in a Shopify store versus a ground up built bespoke site, that Shopify has to get things right or people leave whereas a designer can keep tinkering but never fix the issue and the owner cannot step in and take back control because it is far too technical to manage.

I really don't understand the thinking on this. It sounds as though you're under the impression that Shopify has some magical way of converting traffic (I don't mean to offend with that term but that's how it reads).

Are your Ads taking your paid traffic to categories or products?

 

[fisicx]

It’s quite possible moving to shopify or whatever will make things worse.

Note also that you may not be #1 on Google. You are seeing personalised results. You need to check in incognito or private browsing mode.

 

[thetiger2015]

not converting or perhaps not even driving enough traffic.

These issues won't be corrected by Shopify - it's just a platform, it has no magical powers and you may well need a developer to get the most juice out of it - site speed, CRO improvements etc.

In your replies to others, I'd be concerned that you're looking down the wrong end of the telescope.

"that Shopify has to get things right or people leave whereas a designer can keep tinkering but never fix the issue" - that's not what Shopify is. They won't fix anything for you. They're just a subscription hosting platform with themes and plugins. Your website is your problem, they only monitor downtime or technical glitches. If you modify their coding too much or use a theme from someone else, they offer no support, as you're outside the contract.

Edited to add: we use Shopify - love it. Moved from Magento because it was bloated and security updates for Magento 2.0 were beyond the capability of our team. But we migrated for technical reasons that were solved by a technical solution, we needed a new platform.

 

[WaveJumper]

Not sure what you are looking at because you have no idea what my website is as I have not disclosed it here or in a profile.

I do apologise was actually looking at someone else's on this thread

 

[danawhite]

I prefer shopify so i know about it a lot

 

[Byzantium]

I really don't understand the thinking on this. It sounds as though you're under the impression that Shopify has some magical way of converting traffic (I don't mean to offend with that term but that's how it reads).

Are your Ads taking your paid traffic to categories or products?

I'm not offended and I thank you for the time taken to respond as I'm on a learning curve.

I don't think Shopify or another similar option will magically improve sales but it would allow me to make changes without having to go back and forth across the current developer assistance.

Sure, that could make things worse but as I don't think what we are doing now is working and it is in the hands of a third party.

 

[Byzantium]

I do apologise was actually looking at someone else's on this thread

Ha ha, done that loads of time. No offense taken - you just had me thinking whether I had posted up the site

 

[Byzantium]

It’s quite possible moving to shopify or whatever will make things worse.

Note also that you may not be #1 on Google. You are seeing personalised results. You need to check in incognito or private browsing mode.

Appreciated and checked and we're still #1 in paid search though a little lower in organic when incognito.

 

[Shopclicks]

I don't think Shopify or another similar option will magically improve sales but it would allow me to make changes without having to go back and forth across the current developer assistance.

You don't have access to edit or add products to your current site? What platform are you on?

 

[Byzantium]

These issues won't be corrected by Shopify - it's just a platform, it has no magical powers and you may well need a developer to get the most juice out of it - site speed, CRO improvements etc.

In your replies to others, I'd be concerned that you're looking down the wrong end of the telescope.

"that Shopify has to get things right or people leave whereas a designer can keep tinkering but never fix the issue" - that's not what Shopify is. They won't fix anything for you. They're just a subscription hosting platform with themes and plugins. Your website is your problem, they only monitor downtime or technical glitches. If you modify their coding too much or use a theme from someone else, they offer no support, as you're outside the contract.

Edited to add: we use Shopify - love it. Moved from Magento because it was bloated and security updates for Magento 2.0 were beyond the capability of our team. But we migrated for technical reasons that were solved by a technical solution, we needed a new platform.

I don't think we need anything complicated as we sell about 5 products of which 3 have between 2 and 4 variants, such as colour, size etc.

If our current website is the problem, then moving to a packaged product which one might presume isn't "a problem" because it is surely set up to work well by Shopify, then some of the issues we may be facing with a less than ideal website should be eradicated.

I'm trying to simplify things and yet every turn our IT support make takes us further down a rabbit warren where my website is utterly beholding to their management and I don't want that.

 

[Byzantium]

You don't have access to edit or add products to your current site? What platform are you on?

I can request changes, additions, etc. and they happen in good time and accurately. That is not the issue.

I cannot do things myself, no. Am I technically capable ? To a degree, in terms of being able to use SQL and follow code and logic but not at a level to build new functionality myself.

 

[Shopclicks]

I can request changes, additions, etc. and they happen in good time and accurately. That is not the issue.

Well it does seem like you need a better solution. And even Shopify sounds like a better solution than your current situation. But I would never recommend Shopify over Woocommerce for any business. There's nothing difficult about Wordpress/Woocommerce and you have complete control.

 

[fisicx]

I don't think we need anything complicated as we sell about 5 products of which 3 have between 2 and 4 variants, such as colour, size etc.

If our current website is the problem, then moving to a packaged product which one might presume isn't "a problem" because it is surely set up to work well by Shopify, then some of the issues we may be facing with a less than ideal website should be eradicated.

I'm trying to simplify things and yet every turn our IT support make takes us further down a rabbit warren where my website is utterly beholding to their management and I don't want that.

Find someone else to look after your site. Nobody should be beholden to IT support in this way.

If the platform is bespoke then moving to a different platform may be to your advantage but self hosted will give you full control whereas the likes of shopify could frustrate and be expensive.

But everything comes back to those analytics. Unless you know what the problem is you can’t apply a fix.

Can you send the url of you site as a PM so I can take a look.

 

[Byzantium]

Well it does seem like you need a better solution. And even Shopify sounds like a better solution than your current situation. But I would never recommend Shopify over Woocommerce for any business. There's nothing difficult about Wordpress/Woocommerce and you have complete control.

Do you mean WooCommerce is easy for you because this is your industry because I don't think any of them are easy for those outside the industry.

I could have full control of a plane but I would crash it because I cannot fly a plane etc.

 

[Byzantium]

Find someone else to look after your site. Nobody should be beholden to IT support in this way.

If the platform is bespoke then moving to a different platform may be to your advantage but self hosted will give you full control whereas the likes of shopify could frustrate and be expensive.

But everything comes back to those analytics. Unless you know what the problem is you can’t apply a fix.

Can you send the url of you site as a PM so I can take a look.

Yeah, maybe the real issue is the lack of control which would be ok if things were going well but because they are not and the IT support we pay for doesn't seem to either be able to fix it or even report back what is wrong, then yeah, that might be the real issue and looking at Shopify seems a potential way out rather than a huge desire to be on a Shopify platform.

 

[Shopclicks]

Do you mean WooCommerce is easy for you because this is your industry because I don't think any of them are easy for those outside the industry.

I could have full control of a plane but I would crash it because I cannot fly a plane etc.

There's a learning curve with every platform. Shopify, Wix etc. use their marketing to make it all sound simple. I doubt you'll be talked out of it.

 

[thetiger2015]

Yeah, maybe the real issue is the lack of control which would be ok if things were going well but because they are not and the IT support we pay for doesn't seem to either be able to fix it or even report back what is wrong, then yeah, that might be the real issue and looking at Shopify seems a potential way out rather than a huge desire to be on a Shopify platform.

...but...we still don't know if the problem is your web platform (technical) or something else going on with marketing / paid / organic / social traffic etc.

Your IT support won't be any help, if the problem is outside the scope of their contract. They may say the website is functioning perfectly fine, technically, with no errors that would hamper sales.

So? You need a more in depth look at what is actually happening. Moving platforms won't bring you more traffic, it's going to give you a headache because you have zero experience of woocommerce, Shopify etc. you're going to have to learn it all first, with no support.

 

[fisicx]

Had a look at the site. It’s a standard Wordpress/woo site. Nothing there that can’t be fixed. And there are a lot of things need fixing. I suspect the lacy of control is because they don’t have full admin access.

And they are probably losing money paying for Google ads because of all the problems with the site.

 

[Shopclicks]

Had a look at the site. It’s a standard Wordpress/woo site. Nothing there that can’t be fixed. And there are a lot of things need fixing. I suspect the lacy of control is because they don’t have full admin access.

And they are probably losing money paying for Google ads because of all the problems with the site.

Stitched up by the developer. But I guess that's what the OP asked for.

@Byzantium Who was your domain name registered by? I've seen situations where a domain is registered by the developer.

 

[wayzgoose]

Do you mean WooCommerce is easy for you because this is your industry because I don't think any of them are easy for those outside the industry.

I could have full control of a plane but I would crash it because I cannot fly a plane etc.

The job of adding products, images, categories, information pages should be a relatively simple job whatever platform you use. Just need to get stuck in for a few hours and see how everything works. If you are unable to do that on your site then you have a problem with your IT provider.

 

[antropy]

However, I am considering whether we should move to a simpler sales channel using an online shop from Shopify, Wix or similar and just piggy back o their technology and remove that constant problem of updating.

Do you really need to update that regularly?

It would also allow me the option to make changes to the website as and when I chose rather than having to ask for IT help to do so.

Most platforms like OpenCart, PrestaShop, and WooCommerce allow you to update various things yourself?

So what are the pros and cons of using one of these Shopify type sites over designing your own as from the outside, they look far easier.

Well, Shopify will own your website, they will increase their fees as they see fit. They will decide what happens and when, they will say that certain things just can't be done and that's that.

If you're happy to do what Shopify tell you, pay their fees, and only do what can be done on their limited platform, then fine.

But if you want the flexibility and control to build whatever you want and truly own it, then look elsewhere.

Paul.

 

[Byzantium]

Stitched up by the developer. But I guess that's what the OP asked for.

@Byzantium Who was your domain name registered by? I've seen situations where a domain is registered by the developer.

No, we registered the domain.

I'm unsure where it is hosted now - possibly through the developer.

 

[Byzantium]

Stitched up by the developer. But I guess that's what the OP asked for.

@Byzantium Who was your domain name registered by? I've seen situations where a domain is registered by the developer.

Eh ? I asked to be stitched up ?

Come on, that is just childish talk.

 

[Byzantium]

The job of adding products, images, categories, information pages should be a relatively simple job whatever platform you use. Just need to get stuck in for a few hours and see how everything works. If you are unable to do that on your site then you have a problem with your IT provider.

I've used a builder before and adapted CSS code and other things so I'm not totally green but at present, everything is on the other side of the fence, though I am not saying they would not give me complete access.

 

[Byzantium]

Do you really need to update that regularly?

Yes, pricing, options, why not ?

It is more about having the option to, rather than tinkering for its own sake.

Most platforms like OpenCart, PrestaShop, and WooCommerce allow you to update various things yourself?

But why should I have to constantly monitor and update ? I don't want that "job". I would prefer the damn thing updated automatically like Android.

Well, Shopify will own your website, they will increase their fees as they see fit. They will decide what happens and when, they will say that certain things just can't be done and that's that.

If you're happy to do what Shopify tell you, pay their fees, and only do what can be done on their limited platform, then fine.

You seem to have a beef with fees. There is no free lunch and sure, you might be able to do it cheaper yourself but at the cost of your time and my time is valuable.

But if you want the flexibility and control to build whatever you want and truly own it, then look elsewhere.

Paul.

Agreed, which is where we are now and it isn't working !

 

[antropy]

Yes, pricing, options, why not ?

Oh I thought you meant updating the software to a newer option. You can update pricing and product details very easily on pretty much all platforms.

It is more about having the option to, rather than tinkering for its own sake.

But you have more option to edit stuff with an open source self-hosted solution.

But why should I have to constantly monitor and update ? I don't want that "job". I would prefer the damn thing updated automatically like Android.

Wait so now you are talking about software updates? Well WooCommerce updates a lot but on a platform like OpenCart you don't really need to that frequently anyway.

You seem to have a beef with fees. There is no free lunch and sure, you might be able to do it cheaper yourself but at the cost of your time and my time is valuable.

It's more the fact that you aren't able to vote with your feet. If they increased their prices by 10x or in a way that is ok for others but not for you, there's nothing you can do and you can't leave and take your website with you.

Agreed, which is where we are now and it isn't working !

When you say "it isn't working" what exactly do you mean?

Paul.

 

[Shopclicks]

Eh ? I asked to be stitched up ?

Two separate sentences. You got stitched up. You got what you asked for.

And by 'got what you asked for', I mean you got the level of control you thought you needed at the time.

If you asked for Administrator access, would you get it?

 

[wayzgoose]

I've used a builder before and adapted CSS code and other things so I'm not totally green but at present, everything is on the other side of the fence, though I am not saying they would not give me complete access.

So why don't you ask for access to the admin side?