Social media marketing doesn't work

[japancool]

Let me qualify that.

Social media marketing *does* work for many people, but for us, I'm strongly starting to question its value.

The usual advice is to create unique and exciting content, engage your users blah blah blah. Some of my competitors do that. They post videos of stuff going on in the market, their latest holidays etc. etc. Sure, they get more likes on their posts than I do - but judging by what I can tell from their catalogue and their company reports, they aren't doing any better than me, and worse, in a lot of cases. They get more likes, but that doesn't seem to translate into more sales.

FB adverts are my main advertising outlet. I post news of new stock and products on our FB page, but that's all. Occasionally, I'll post a few news items of interest to my customers, but I don't do product reviews, unboxing videos, that sort of thing. There are lots of other sites and YouTubers who do that and AFAIK, most of my target audience consume their news from those places, and then look for somewhere to buy. As long as they've seen our ad, or done a Google, they'll come across us.

So I reckon, let the others spend their budgets and efforts on SM marketing if they want. I'll just put what really matters to customers - "Hey look, we have stuff you want!". I don't have the time or energy to try to become an "influencer".

What's your opinion?

 

[Ozzy]

Assuming you are talking about your Japanese model business, if I was in your shoes I would do the unboxing and review videos. Not only that, I would be doing it using TikTok shop so people could buy the product while watching the live stream. Best example I have seen of someone in a somewhat similar sector to you doing this exceptionally well; so well I ended up buying from them through TikTok as I was doom scrolling - is NPC Toys.

 

[japancool]

Best example I have seen of someone in a somewhat similar sector to you doing this exceptionally well; so well I ended up buying from them through TikTok as I was doom scrolling - is NPC Toys.

Out of interest, what was the product?

 

[Ozzy]

Out of interest, what was the product?

Have a look at some of their videos;

TikTok - Make Your Day

TikTok doesn't keep live streams so you cannot see their past streams without actually catching them online as they are doing it, but the short version the way TikTok shop works is as you are showing a product while you live stream you can have TikTok show the viewers a Buy this now button which the viewers can click and buy instantly there and then.
Personally I'm really impressed with it's simplicity and firmly believe this is going to replace Facebook and Instagram shops, so impressed in fact that when I met the TikTok team at a business event a few weeks back I invited them onto a UKBF webinar next week which we are running teaching how to set this all up use it.

 

[Mark T Jones]

It's a fair point - essentially a different entry point to to eternal question 'What's the best form of marketing'.

The answer, without fail is 'the one that reaches & resonates with your target customer'

 

[Shopclicks]

FB adverts are my main advertising outlet.

Photos or videos?

 

[Shopclicks]

I'm leaving this here for people who read this thread in the future. It's part of an outline I'm writing for a workshop for small business owners:

The real question here is: Am I posting what people want to see and share?

Social media is not primarily a group of advertising platforms and unless you want to pay to appear on a social media channel, you should not be using social media to advertise. The clue is in the name and I’ve highlighted that for you.

Here is the dictionary definition:

social media
noun
noun: social media; plural noun: social medias
websites and applications that enable users to create and share content or to participate in social networking.

There are businesses which use social platforms correctly (let’s call them ‘social media works’) and there are businesses which use social platforms incorrectly (let’s call them ‘social media doesn’t work’)

Can you use social media to get more sales? Yes, of course you can. However, it’s the type and frequency which will determine your market share from social media platforms. You cannot expect to post a product image and get engagement from it. However, if that post is part of a page with other quality content, expect more engagement. … And above all, expect that post to be shown to more people.

The key point that a lot of business owners are unaware of, is that your posts are never shown to all of your followers without paying. The number of people who see your posts is determined by initial post engagement (good reactions are a good indicator of post quality) and the number of other pages your followers follow. The best way to get your posts seen by more people than just those who follow you is … 1. Post more often
2. Post sharable content

If a single post is only shown (reach) to 30% of your followers, the more often you post, he greater likelyhood that the other 70% will see one or more of your posts. I hear all the time that business owners don’t want to annoy their followers by continually posting. The answer is: Let Facebook decide who to show your posts to.

Those businesses which use social media the right way, as a social platform have grasped the concept that people are interested in what other people are doing, what’s new and what they can share with their friends, rather than what they are selling. What you are selling needs to be secondary to your social content.

To see this in action, take a look at three Facebook accounts with 500,000 followers or more and write down their engagement numbers from a 2 week old post (likes, comments & shares). Then compare them to your own. Now, some will say, they only have that many engagements because they have so many followers, When in fact, the exact opposite is true – They have 500,000 followers because their content is engaging!

I meet a lot of business owners who have tried Facebook and gave up because ‘it doesn’t work’. A quick look at their Facebook page always tells the same story – Zero engaging content posted once or twice a week. This is not using Facebook as it was designed to be used. The thinking is always ‘I’ll start a Facebook page for my business and that should bring more people to my store’. Then proceed to post about what they sell and not what they do …. And post that once a week, once a fortnight or once a month. This is like making your mind up that you’re going to get fit … and doing a pushup.

 

[japancool]

It is perfectly possible to use social media as an advertising tool. The majority of my sales comes, directly or indirectly, from social media. A product post can result in 20% of my monthly sales in a single day - IF, and this is the important bit, if it is a product that my customers are looking for.

The important thing is this not engagement. It's whether engagement leads to more sales or not. You can get hundreds of likes and comments on a post, but if that results in no sales, what's the point? Likes may be ego-boosting, but they are not what will drive your business forwards.

Perhaps the right way of using social media does work for my particular market, but I have not seen in done well by any business in this industry in the UK. One of my competitors posts that sort of thing, and sure, they get lots of likes, but they're not making more sales than I am. I don't care what Barry the plumber is doing on his holidays. I just care that he's competent at what he does.

Now, I grant that just because no one is doing it right, that there isn't a right, or better way to do this. SMM works well for companies based in Japan, because they get early access to products. By the time I get them, they'll have already been out for a couple of months, and there will be reviews all over the net. My customers will have already seen them. Of course, a video review for a product might well increase its conversion rate. Sadly, I have neither the time nor the budget to do them.

I take Ozzy's point about unboxing videos, which, for figures, statues and toys probably works quite well. I watch them myself for those products. But mine are unassembled model kits, and most of them look pretty much the same when unboxed. Here are some plastic runners, a manual and some stickers/decals. What more people will want to see is a review of the kit when it is built, and I simply don't have the capacity for that. There are lots of other sources for that, including from the manufacturer themselves.

What's more important to my customers is whether I have what they want, the fact that they can pick up the phone and talk to me for help and advice, and that they know they will get a response if they contact me. I grant that I'm operating a little on a retained reputation from when I used to do a lot of cons and whatnot.

I'm always open to ideas, but a blanket statement like "create unique content, otherwise it doesn't work", is both unhelpful and wrong.

They key is finding the most effective way to use social media for your industry and products.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

It is true SM is not good for all
I gave up about 7 years ago and just mess around with what I wanted on there

Then Kayla a five year old girl here was struck with a rare cancer .I used twitter to help with the effort to raise 200k for her treatment.

In a month the followers went from 50 to 450

Twitter does nothing for my business but has done a lot more than I expected for totally different reasons

 

[BustersDogs]

Here is the dictionary definition:

social media
noun
noun: social media; plural noun: social medias
websites and applications that enable users to create and share content or to participate in social networking.

Sorry I can't let this go. Which dictionary is putting an S on the end of a word that is already plural?

 

[fisicx]

Despite the best efforts of a number of people SMM has never worked for my business. Those looking for my products and services aren’t doing so on Facebook, twitter, LinkedIn TikTok or anything else. Their research begins on Wordpress and ends on search engines. I suspect there are many products and services with similar stories.

SMM can work for some but that doesn’t mean it will work for all. If you are just 1 of many promoting herbal teas the chances of success diminish ans the value of ‘many’ increases. Even if you pay for advertising.

And for those that do get some success with SMM don’t make it your sole marketing channel. Make sure you diversify. That way if one channel falls over you have many others to keep the money rolling in.

 

[Shopclicks]

Sorry I can't let this go. Which dictionary is putting an S on the end of a word that is already plural?

Hey, the Americans invented it, They can do what they like with it

 

[Shopclicks]

Despite the best efforts of a number of people SMM has never worked for my business.

I'd venture to say, you never really tried to build a brand for yourself?

 

[fisicx]

I'd venture to say, you never really tried to build a brand for yourself?

No. But that’s because what I do isn’t something that works as a brand.

If you want a Wordpress plugin to calculate the balloon payment on a car loan repayment scheme you won’t be looking on Facebook. And when you do find the plugin you won’t need to follow me on twitter. What you will do is send me an email asking for new feature or some custom work.

If someone could show me an example of SMM working well for a Wordpress plugin then I might consider trying again.

 

[Shopclicks]

No. But that’s because what I do isn’t something that works as a brand.

I don't imply that every business needs to use social media as part of it's marketing strategy. However, if you were trying to build a brand or grow your footfall, leads or sales, then using social media could be part of the strategy. It's not for everyone.

 

[Shopclicks]

If someone could show me an example of SMM working well for a Wordpress plugin then I might consider trying again.

Elementor

 

[fisicx]

They have a social media presence but I’d put money on their followers being existing users of the plugin (the comments support this opinion).

It’s going to be less effective to promote a theme or plugin you have never heard of. People looking for plugins tend to search for the function or feature not the product name.

As an example, i’ve just built a plugin for a Norwegian client that compares energy prices using a data feed that updates daily. They wouldn’t be using SM to find a developer who could build this for them.

I do understand your approach to using SM but it’s not the right channel for everyone.

 

[Shopclicks]

They have a social media presence but I’d put money on their followers being existing users of the plugin (the comments support this opinion).

If you search for 'page builder' or 'wordpress page builder', watch your socials start filling up with Paid Ads for Elementor. It's a competitive market for newbies. And it's free. They use the social channels to market the Pro version to people who are using the free version and to newcomers.

 

[fantheflames]

I think it's more the quality of content you're putting on social media. If it's just advertising your business with no meaningful intent behind it when it would never work.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

I think it's more the quality of content you're putting on social media. If it's just advertising your business with no meaningful intent behind it when it would never work.

You do have a very good point but there is limited to how much you can bore the ass off your audience with a few vans and a rusty fork lift.

 

[Shopclicks]

You do have a very good point but there is limited to how much you can bore the ass off your audience with a few vans and a rusty fork lift.

If out of the blue, your competitors started taking business from you and you had no money for advertising, what would you do?

Outside of slashing their tyres

 

[dampconsult]

Let me qualify that.

Social media marketing *does* work for many people, but for us, I'm strongly starting to question its value.

The usual advice is to create unique and exciting content, engage your users blah blah blah. Some of my competitors do that. They post videos of stuff going on in the market, their latest holidays etc. etc. Sure, they get more likes on their posts than I do - but judging by what I can tell from their catalogue and their company reports, they aren't doing any better than me, and worse, in a lot of cases. They get more likes, but that doesn't seem to translate into more sales.

FB adverts are my main advertising outlet. I post news of new stock and products on our FB page, but that's all. Occasionally, I'll post a few news items of interest to my customers, but I don't do product reviews, unboxing videos, that sort of thing. There are lots of other sites and YouTubers who do that and AFAIK, most of my target audience consume their news from those places, and then look for somewhere to buy. As long as they've seen our ad, or done a Google, they'll come across us.

So I reckon, let the others spend their budgets and efforts on SM marketing if they want. I'll just put what really matters to customers - "Hey look, we have stuff you want!". I don't have the time or energy to try to become an "influencer".

What's your opinion?

I think, You need to get help from smo professionals.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

If out of the blue, your competitors started taking business from you and you had no money for advertising, what would you do?

Outside of slashing their tyres

As a business with a 30 year history fortunately we are never in that position and here in 2023 run well below capacity. Should funding be needed it is there but my new villa in Greece will be put back a couple of years and we cant have that

 

[japancool]

I think, You need to get help from smo professionals.

I'm quite happy with how it's going.

 

[japancool]

Outside of slashing their tyres

Sugar in their petrol tanks.

 

[Shopclicks]

As a business with a 30 year history fortunately we are never in that position and here in 2023 run well below capacity. Should funding be needed it is there but my new villa in Greece will be put back a couple of years and we cant have that

Well it was a hypothetical question

So .... slashing tyres it is then!

 

[Shopclicks]

Sugar in their petrol tanks.

Sugar works too!

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

Well it was a hypothetical question

So .... slashing tyres it is then!

I answered this in a hurry due to a ringing phone and it deserves a clear explanation.

Social media does not attract the type of customers that we target .
We target
Water boards
Manufacturing companies
Large groups of solicitors and financial institutions with the view to gaining the business from them as a group.
Any company that struggles with the traditional pallet networks /parcel networks
High value and fragile goods
Ugly freight

Our target market does not search for or discover their suppliers on SM as a whole

This is where many new start ups in our industry are failing as they follow the advice of running Facebook ads and tic tik campaigns and end up getting nowhere and closing
You have to get on the phone do your research and home work and SEO on the website is good.
Sticking a model with a box next to an electric van on Twitter just does nothing ?

I study the other members on here selling goods online and SM is very important to them

 

[Shopclicks]

Our target market does not search for or discover their suppliers on SM as a whole

It's great that you are busy and maybe SMM isn't required for you.

But ....

If someone was starting out in your type of business and they wanted or needed to do more than get on the phone, then there are ways of using SM to get to the target audience.

Using manufacturers as an example, you're right, they probably don't seek out suppliers on SM. But a lot of manufacturers have SM pages (including LinkedIn). If I wanted to put myself in front of those manufacturers, I would be engaging them by commenting on their posts as my page. Not spamming, but legitimate social posts. No selling, just interest. I might catch their attention in the same way as cold calling on the phone. But without the intrusion.

If you were going to do that, it would pay to have your own page full of regular posts about what you do and how you do it. You're only a click away from a friendly, social comment. And they might be looking for a new courier. And it costs nothing.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

It's great that you are busy and maybe SMM isn't required for you.

But ....

If someone was starting out in your type of business and they wanted or needed to do more than get on the phone, then there are ways of using SM to get to the target audience.

Using manufacturers as an example, you're right, they probably don't seek out suppliers on SM. But a lot of manufacturers have SM pages (including LinkedIn). If I wanted to put myself in front of those manufacturers, I would be engaging them by commenting on their posts as my page. Not spamming, but legitimate social posts. No selling, just interest. I might catch their attention in the same way as cold calling on the phone. But without the intrusion.

If you were going to do that, it would pay to have your own page full of regular posts about what you do and how you do it. You're only a click away from a friendly, social comment. And they might be looking for a new courier. And it costs nothing.

There is only one person on here that I know that has it nailed down on LinkedIn and that is @Mark T Jones
I watch him and he has a unique way of doing things that throws the rule book out of the window in very much the same way that I gain a volume of business from here

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

Using manufacturers as an example, you're right, they probably don't seek out suppliers on SM. But a lot of manufacturers have SM pages (including LinkedIn). If I wanted to put myself in front of those manufacturers, I would be engaging them by commenting on their posts as my page. Not spamming, but legitimate social posts. No selling, just interest. I might catch their attention in the same way as cold calling on the phone. But without the intrusion.

If you were going to do that, it would pay to have your own page full of regular posts about what you do and how you do it. You're only a click away from a friendly, social comment. And they might be looking for a new courier. And it costs nothing.

I already research on LinkedIn.
If I wish to target a business I'm on the phone once I have found the main players and me and Ralph are going to go and talk to them about the amazing level that service that we can offer their business .

 

[Shopclicks]

I already research on LinkedIn.
If I wish to target a business I'm on the phone once I have found the main players and me and Ralph are going to go and talk to them about the amazing level that service that we can offer their business .

Brilliant!

 

[Picture Bute]

The important thing is this not engagement. It's whether engagement leads to more sales or not. You can get hundreds of likes and comments on a post, but if that results in no sales, what's the point? Likes may be ego-boosting, but they are not what will drive your business forwards.

I have a customer (an artist) who produces artwork and cartoons for certain holiday places. Every time he shows a new product he gets inundated with messages and posts suggesting products etc made from his artwork. His facebook 'likes' run into 00s and somethimes 000s. When he then creates these items and places them on sale, the story is somewhat different, often resulting in zero sales.

Outwardly, it would appear that his social media advertising is very succesful, but in reality, it's not. I know because I make and send out his products for him Always been a source of mystery to me, because my experience is similar (although not quite as bad). My views and likes are smaller than his, but sales are better, but not mind blowing or life changing.

 

[Shopclicks]

Outwardly, it would appear that his social media advertising is very succesful, but in reality, it's not. I know because I make and send out his products for him Always been a source of mystery to me, because my experience is similar (although not quite as bad). My views and likes are smaller than his, but sales are better, but not mind blowing or life changing.

The organic reach on video is far greater than images.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

The organic reach on video is far greater than images.

People like short videos as they have the concentration span of a nat

The challenge is do these videos produce quality leads? . I am very doubtful in many cases. Just sticking it up is not targeted marketing and getting to the right audience has a far bigger priority than mass clicks!

 

[Shopclicks]

Just sticking it up is not targeted marketing and getting to the right audience has a far bigger priority than mass clicks!

This is true of B2B if you have no need to build a brand and grow. A client runs a specialist courier service in Scotland. They have grown from 1 van to 2 vans and 3 trucks in 3 years. Social media didn't create that growth (LinkedIn & Instagram) but if you wanted to research a new courier service for your business, their service level is on show (and costs nothing but time).

B2C however, can be grown with less targeting but sharable content. If you're paying for Ads this is even more important. You don't pay for the organic reach (shared content) for paid Facebook Ads. If you're running Facebook Ads, then video is better value.

 

[Mark T Jones]

For me, this thread perfectly illustrates what goes wrong with buying or selling of 'marketing'.

The title was a tad misleading, as @japancool mentioned in their OP.

It's actually a thread about context - specifically in this case about whether SM is the 'best' or 'most appropriate' form of marketing. The only reliable answer to that starts with 'It depends', and is followed by a series of questions.

Sadly, what usually happens is that a naïve small business asks for the 'best' way to market their business, and lots of 'specialists' pitch in promoting their favoured medium - thereby showing that they don't really understand marketing. (or that they are conveniently blinkering their knowledge).

As @JEREMY HAWKE has pointed out, I use LinkedIn extensively. My target customers hardly use it at all (My largest customer has absolutely no SM presence whatsoever). It does however resonate with advisors, consultants and 'money people' who influence those customers. That's the kind of information that is needed before anyone can guide on the 'best' way to market a business.

 

[Shopclicks]

Sadly, what usually happens is that a naïve small business asks for the 'best' way to market their business, and lots of 'specialists' pitch in promoting their favoured medium - thereby showing that they don't really understand marketing. (or that they are conveniently blinkering their knowledge).

I don't sell SM marketing or management. But my advice to business owners is always - If you're going to do it, do it smart. It's free, why not utilise it.

 

[estwig]

I don't sell SM marketing or management. But my advice to business owners is always - If you're going to do it, do it smart. It's free, why not utilise it.

I've been following this thread with interest, I don't want to pitch in too much as it may seem like the 'old skhool' on here are picking on you, you've made some good points, thank you.

I can't let this go...............It's only free if you don't value your time!

 

[Shopclicks]

I can't let this go...............It's only free if you don't value your time!

It is free when you put it up against other forms of advertising or marketing. TV, Radio, Print, Billboards, Email, etc., are all platforms that you pay for. And someone's time goes into creating the media.

The point is, the SM platforms are free to use.