Working from home driving me mad (invest in office space)? Rent out?

[Lukejohn]

Hi all,

I’ve been working from home for 3 years now and it’s driving me a bit mad. My wofe has a new contract in March where she will work more from home. I’m trying to find a solution to getting an office whilst profiting. I don’t want to rent and burn money, I was considering some kind of small property and renting out part of it to cover my costs , perhaps a house small business unit , we have 250k sitting in the limited account which is evaporating due to inflation - wondering what others are doing? I know I can go cafes my gym etc , doing a bit of that to work out the home - but it’s not optimal. I also don’t want to be sat in another room on my own. I’m a sole director with sub contractors and it gets a bit lonely. What you all doing folks? Best Luke

 

[WaveJumper]

Perhaps there are tow issues here. One I would work out what is it thats driving you mad working from home ie. is it people around you, not in a dedicated work space etc. Two the money you have to invest I see as a separate issue.

 

[estwig]

I've been working from home for many years.

I did rent an office for a while, a magnolia box on an industrial estate, it was less convenient than working from home, no real difference in the solitude. It is what it is.

Now I play tennis, do yoga, gym classes and mess around with the grandchildren during the day. I don't work regular hours, it's all part of life.

Change your perspective, do you need to work 9-5 or can you go and do other things, whatever takes your fancy, mix it up a bit.

 

[WaveJumper]

I've been working from home for many years.

I did rent an office for a while, a magnolia box on an industrial estate, it was less convenient than working from home, no real difference in the solitude. It is what it is.

Now I play tennis, do yoga, gym classes and mess around with the grandchildren during the day. I don't work regular hours, it's all part of life.

Change your perspective, do you need to work 9-5 or can you go and do other things, whatever takes your fancy, mix it up a bit.

And don't forget more time for debugging the house ?

 

[Lukejohn]

Thanks wavejumper.

More specifically, it gets rather lonely, I’m an extravert being kept in a single room all day in my converted office in my house. Seemed like a great idea 3 years ago, although has got rather demotivating. Normally you leave your place of living go to your place of work do a productive 8 hours and return to a family environment for living - I can’t separate the two currently. Meaning I am unproductive in the home environment and end up working till 9pm at night and then eating dinner. So I’m at my desk for 12 hours with I’d say a productive 4 hours of work- just wondering what others are doing. The cash in the bank aspect is a problem but I just don’t want to burn money renting an office.

Best LJ

 

[estwig]

And don't forget more time for debugging the house ?

Thats all done with, he's back behind the door on remand awaiting a date at crown court, I'm all apple!

 

[WaveJumper]

Working at home or should say in a solitary environment does not suit everyone, my brother in law tried years ago nearly sent himself batty, myself I am sitting in front of screens all day sometimes all night, the alternative is to work in a "trading room or floor" interacting with others .... but as @estwig highlighted you can mix it up, look at your day (thats what ive done) there's time when I can just leave the house catch up on other things, walks etc etc whatever takes your fancy, personally I like the freedom. I tend to think its too easy sometimes to actually work harder at home and put in more hours than if you were sitting in an office somewhere.

 

[WaveJumper]

Thats all done with, he's back behind the door on remand awaiting a date at crown court, I'm all apple!

Good to hear and welcome to the Apple club .....but keep it quiet it might up set some of the other members nudge nudge wink wink ?

 

[Newchodge]

Thanks wavejumper.

More specifically, it gets rather lonely, I’m an extravert being kept in a single room all day in my converted office in my house. Seemed like a great idea 3 years ago, although has got rather demotivating. Normally you leave your place of living go to your place of work do a productive 8 hours and return to a family environment for living - I can’t separate the two currently. Meaning I am unproductive in the home environment and end up working till 9pm at night and then eating dinner. So I’m at my desk for 12 hours with I’d say a productive 4 hours of work- just wondering what others are doing. The cash in the bank aspect is a problem but I just don’t want to burn money renting an office.

Best LJ

Renting an office won't change the loneliness, nor the lack of productivity and presenteeism.

Try making your home office completely separate from your home. For example, don't go straight into the office from the home space. Go out for a walk, buy a newspaper, pint of milk, then travel back to your workplace. Do the same mid morning, stop work, go for a 10 minute walk, return to your home and read the newspaper you bought earlier, then go bakc to work. Set a finish time, say, 5pm. Stop work, go for a 10 minute walk and then go home. Don't open the office door until you 'arrive at work' the next morning.

 

[Lukejohn]

I think the biggest issue is the productivity and that creating some anxiety too. I did try mixing it up (diy and gym in the day) but got side tracked and didnt put enough into the business in the evening then. I dont have to work 9- 5 but my wife does - so it’s not great on her if she doesn’t see me all evening. I considered buying a small unit and trying renting part of it to others - but then realised that rival organisations would here conversations. The other plan was to take on interns to keep us company and offer opportunities- it still comes back to me spending on rent - although if it was purchased I suppose it would be an asset. Best LJ

 

[MBE2017]

A dedicated workspace might be helpful, such as a garden office if you have the room.

I get the feeling you are feeling a victim of your own success, so although making money you are now almost too comfortable, and looking for more out of life, but you still haven’t found what your missing.

I think you need to think long and hard, imagine your “perfect” life, and try to see what is missing from yours.

 

[estwig]

Renting an office won't change the loneliness, nor the lack of productivity and presenteeism.

Try making your home office completely separate from your home. For example, don't go straight into the office from the home space. Go out for a walk, buy a newspaper, pint of milk, then travel back to your workplace. Do the same mid morning, stop work, go for a 10 minute walk, return to your home and read the newspaper you bought earlier, then go bakc to work. Set a finish time, say, 5pm. Stop work, go for a 10 minute walk and then go home. Don't open the office door until you 'arrive at work' the next morning.

I've always thought this approach, although I've never tried it, to be absolutely moronic in setting yourself up for a frustrating fail.

If you work from home, you're at home, accept it don't fight it.

 

[Financial-Modeller]

The two issues; where you work and what to do with surplus cash are distinct and should be treated in isolation.

For workspace, consider co-working / hotdesking which can be enjoyable and cost-effective on flexible terms

You will spend far more on acquisition costs buying an office for your sole use, than renting deskspace for a year.

Income on a portfolio of properties held indirectly via REITs will exceed the cost of renting an office for yourself if you prefer to do that.

 

[DontAsk]

The obvious answer is work in the same space as your wife, when her new contract start, or are you trying to avoid that, too?

 

[Gecko001]

As has been said, if you find it difficult to work alone from home, you will notfind it any less of a challenge to work alone in an office away from home. Even if you buy a place with two offices in it and rent the other office out, things will be more or less the same as you situation now. I once worked in a small office and we rented the room above us out to another small firm. I maybe saw the people in the office above two or three times a week and that was only to say good morning or hello when pasing in the corridor. Both offices were busy offices and there were a lot of coming and going, the coming and going did not happen at the same time.

The elephant in the room as far as I can see, is the question is working alone for you? Have you thought about getting a partner or even, dare I say it. going back to a salaried job? Taking on employees might also work, but you can offen feel more isolated when you are the boss.

 

[tony84]

I rent a serviced office through a small local company. £260 a month which includes water and electric. No rates payable.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

I've a relative who rents a space in a serviced office and the social engagement, the 5 minute chat at the coffee machine with a fellow 'worker' and the general buzz has enabled him to break free from the 100% working from home malaise.

 

[Lukejohn]

Thanks for all you replies. I've recently been working from alternative locations, which has helped a little. Its not ideal to work with my wife. I will say that our home is now an office with her working from home too, and unfortunately makes it feel like a workplace. Sad after all the work we put in.

I've realised I have to do a bit of both and co working is probably the best combo with some more employees to engage with.
best
LJ

 

[m4hmo]

250k in the bank is ok if you got a few million in assets. Otherwise you need to make it work for you.

 

[Lukejohn]

250k in the bank is ok if you got a few million in assets. Otherwise you need to make it work for you.

There arent any tangible assets in the business so progress is required on that front. We have some smal personal assets, but nothing great. That may be the next step.

 

[Karimbo]

I rent a serviced office through a small local company. £260 a month which includes water and electric. No rates payable.

man i need to get out of London.

£260 will get you hotdesking access here

 

[tony84]

man i need to get out of London.

£260 will get you hotdesking access here

Its a nice office too.

It has a little garden/courtyard area with a pergola and things in the middle. My office is overlooking it.

A couple of times a year the owners do like a bit of a BBQ thing.

But yes, I imagine you probably get spat at for £260 in London haha.

 

[Onthebrightside]

I love working from home. Get into the office - two footsteps from the bedroom door - and review whats going on and what I need to do for the day get that written down and crack on with it, then everyone else gets into the(ir) office and things start flying about, more things to do. Break for lunch, watch Escape to the Country with the hubby. Back in the office to tie things up for the day, because I need to get my tubby self down to the gym by 4pm. It's all good. Cat sits on the window sill behind me so he's always in the Teams meetings, he's becoming quite a celebrity!

Perhaps - just focus on the productivity angle, what you need to do to get yourself motivated to get going, then reward yourself when you hit that target. Couple of beers down the local of an evening to laugh about, moan about, discuss your day?

 

[m4hmo]

There arent any tangible assets in the business so progress is required on that front. We have some smal personal assets, but nothing great. That may be the next step.

Your options are either to risk it on another business or play it safe, buy a house/building with cash and or mortgage, rent and forget. Does property appeal to you? Would you enjoy managing a house or building on rent? If so start that - you'll at least get to start interacting with people in a different way.

Otherwise I don't know what to say on the aspect of having to work alone. Probably one of the few negatives about working for yourself (without staff around you) is having to work on your own. I love it if I'm being honest.

What kind of industry are you in? No site visits involved? You're actually working 100% remotely? Just trying to get the bigger picture.

 

[fisicx]

@Lukejohn - what is it you do?

It’s all about mindset. Are you listening to music, have the tv on in the background. Do you meet friends for lunch. Do you ‘go to work’ or just go to where your computer is and login?

 

[The Byre]

we have 250k sitting in the limited account which is evaporating due to inflation - wondering what others are doing?

Gold coins - Britannias as any increase in value is tax-free because (in theory) you are converting one form of UK legal tender into another. https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/gold-price/5year/ounces/USD/ As soon as the kitty has filled up with cash beyond a certain point, it gets turned into gold coins.

Right now, so much money is getting turned into gold and money market funds and is being taken out of bank accounts that it is becoming a liquidity problem for the banks. Many pundits feel that gold will go to $3k an ounce by the end of the year - we shall see.

But I would not allow the government to take over 10% of our money with their inflation tax caused by their printing money.

I’m a sole director with sub contractors and it gets a bit lonely. What you all doing folks? Best Luke

I work with my wife - though she does have her own office - so absolute loneliness is not a problem. In the days when she worked elsewhere and I was working alone for the first time (over 30 years ago!) I felt the same feelings of isolation, but after a while, I got used to it. When the company grew and I got all kinds of people buzzing around me, they actually annoyed me and I had to isolate myself once more.

I got used to being productive and on my own.

 

[MBE2017]

Gold coins -

Right now, so much money is getting turned into gold and money market funds and is being taken out of bank accounts that it is becoming a liquidity problem for the banks.

Definitely a rush on atm worldwide. I was watching a video of about a small coin shop in the USA just the other say, and as the owner turned up he had 10-12 people waiting for him to open up in the pouring rain, more clients than he used to get on a busy day. He is in his 70’s and seen it like this only once before in the past, many of his clients were buying $30-100k worth of Gold and Silver.

In the USA many like the idea of Silver, since in the past Gold has been confiscated by Governments. The fiat dollar is seen as trash by many now, and along with the banking crisis and general distrust of most Governments apparently happy with crazy NWO and Green policies has led to a huge upsurge.

What struck myself was 70-80% were first time Gold and Silver buyers. Glad I bought my last bunch when I did, last few days have perked the values up.

 

[The Byre]

The rush to money market funds (bonds and similar products) is even bigger - but the danger there is that not all bonds were born equal and most punters and even medium-sized companies do not understand that market. Bonds are denominated in dollars, pounds and Euros and the true malaise behind the flight from current accounts is the destruction of currencies by governments and central banks.

Bonds and other financial products pay coupons, i.e. interest - some fixed, some indexed (though RPI and CPI rates are largely bogus!) The only problem there is that the client is being paid in the very currencies that are being destroyed! The returns may be guaranteed, but those will be returns in fugazi and pixie dust!

Also, as stated, not all money funds are safe. Banks are playing the derivatives and hedging game, balancing one against the other - the problems there are that we cannot see what those hedges and derivatives really are. Also, the interest is lower than inflation - so what some see as risk-free interest turns out to be interest-free risk!

That's what happened in the 2007-8 GFC debacle. They were hanging leveraged CDOs and MBSs with derivatives that somewhere down the line of opaque counterparties (in the Alice Through the Lookingglass world of investment banking) were using rehypothecated CDOs and MBSs as collateral - madness!

Only this time, the whole system is far more complicated and opaque than in 2007 and debt is spiraling out of control.

Add to all that, the UK government is now spending 2.5 times as much on interest payments than on defense.

Now add to that explosive mix, the disproportionately large investment banking sector in the UK and in Ireland and you begin to see just how massive the implosion could be.

 

[MBE2017]

Wrong thread.

 

[Onthebrightside]

The rush to money market funds (bonds and similar products) is even bigger - but the danger there is that not all bonds were born equal and most punters and even medium-sized companies do not understand that market. Bonds are denominated in dollars, pounds and Euros and the true malaise behind the flight from current accounts is the destruction of currencies by governments and central banks.

Bonds and other financial products pay coupons, i.e. interest - some fixed, some indexed (though RPI and CPI rates are largely bogus!) The only problem there is that the client is being paid in the very currencies that are being destroyed! The returns may be guaranteed, but those will be returns in fugazi and pixie dust!

Also, as stated, not all money funds are safe. Banks are playing the derivatives and hedging game, balancing one against the other - the problems there are that we cannot see what those hedges and derivatives really are. Also, the interest is lower than inflation - so what some see as risk-free interest turns out to be interest-free risk!

That's what happened in the 2007-8 GFC debacle. They were hanging leveraged CDOs and MBSs with derivatives that somewhere down the line of opaque counterparties (in the Alice Through the Lookingglass world of investment banking) were using rehypothecated CDOs and MBSs as collateral - madness!

Only this time, the whole system is far more complicated and opaque than in 2007 and debt is spiraling out of control.

Add to all that, the UK government is now spending 2.5 times as much on interest payments than on defense.

Now add to that explosive mix, the disproportionately large investment banking sector in the UK and in Ireland and you begin to see just how massive the implosion could be.

Totally off topic and apologies to the OP for asking a question of my own here. A relative died recently and left me some gold/diamonds etc. I was going to sell them and put the money into NS&I bonds, but is it the case then I'd be better to hold onto it as the price of gold is rising?

 

[The Byre]

Bonds - interest-free risk!

NI bonds - 2.85%. Inflation - 10.4%. Negative interest plus risk.

Gold and diamonds - depends on the quality.

 

[Porky]

I've been working from home for many years.

I did rent an office for a while, a magnolia box on an industrial estate, it was less convenient than working from home, no real difference in the solitude. It is what it is.

Now I play tennis, do yoga, gym classes and mess around with the grandchildren during the day. I don't work regular hours, it's all part of life.

Change your perspective, do you need to work 9-5 or can you go and do other things, whatever takes your fancy, mix it up a bit.

@Lukejohn
A number of great answers here addressing the practical side of how to change your WFH situation but i specifically liked the post from @estwig as it represents a slightly different angle as in addressing the allocation of how you spend your time and suggesting a change in perspective - IMO this is spot on.

FYI I only work 100% from home and still not got it totally right however, i have adopted a similar approach to @estwig and had radical improvements. You see without trying to spell out the obvious, by putting your desk somewhere else, in a Cafe, in a shared office, in a gym, heck even in your back garden under a tree, whilst may deliver some immediate minor relief it wont cure the underlying issue here: which i consider is in fact that you need to improve your mental health and well being, the old work/life balance we all hear about.

What you need to do is divide up your entire time better, work smarter. Is 100% of your time you spend actually productive? Are you allocating enough time in your day to the right things and moreover in a week are you spending enough time on other elements of your well being life. Get the balance right. I was once given a life balance wheel, i cant find it now but here are a few examples, so you get the general idea:-

Wellness Wheel:

Focus on Flourishing with the Wellness Wheel | Vibrant Soulful Wellness

🌿 Focus on Flourishing! Are you thriving—or just going through the motions? This blog explores the Wellness Wheel, a simple tool to help you reflect on eight key areas of your life and notice where balance and attention are needed. Take a moment to pause, assess, and discover small ways to...

www.vibrantsoulful.com

Another one where you can print a wheel off also a short video clip:-

Why is the Wellness Wheel Important?

Learn what the wellness wheel is, and check out its important benefits for your health and happiness. Keep life balanced across all of these dimensions.

www.1and1life.com

Another Example of the concept this one also drills down a bit deeper

Understanding the Wellness Wheel — Talkspace

The wellness wheel is a tool for self exploration and promotes a balanced life of value and meaning. Read about the seven dimensions of wellness here.

www.talkspace.com

Give this a try and you will likely find you end up in a situation where you will work at your desk for couple of hours busy solid, go off and do something else, then return later. In the summer i will take a whole day out to go fishing once a week (environmental), I don't care if i catch a fish or not, it's the tranquility of the lakeside and when i go back to my desk, I'm loving it more because i feel great. Right this second, I'm posting on this forum hopefully helping someone else (intellectual) again its adding into my wellbeing.

If you can improve your life balance, you wont give WFH a second thought, it just wont matter or be an issue, you will consider it part of your life style, the part that supports the financial part of your general well being hence you then sit at your desk, do your couple of hours, drink your tea and with a wry smile on your face, take a big breath and say "I'm loving life..."

Good Luck

 

[Lukejohn]

Your options are either to risk it on another business or play it safe, buy a house/building with cash and or mortgage, rent and forget. Does property appeal to you? Would you enjoy managing a house or building on rent? If so start that - you'll at least get to start interacting with people in a different way.

Otherwise I don't know what to say on the aspect of having to work alone. Probably one of the few negatives about working for yourself (without staff around you) is having to work on your own. I love it if I'm being honest.

What kind of industry are you in? No site visits involved? You're actually working 100% remotely? Just trying to get the bigger picture.

Hi, sorry been on a holiday so a little delay in replying. Yes, I have site visits probably 2 days a month on average I would say I am out of the house. Sometime one of those will be networking (sometimes that pays off financially, however on the PC I can earn quite a bit with my existing network. I am in the service sector covering all sectors with Project Management. But work with Uni's a lot and councils supporting them on projects.

I have been discussing investing in flats, it could vary the work actually. But I have never done property!

 

[Lukejohn]

@Lukejohn - what is it you do?

It’s all about mindset. Are you listening to music, have the tv on in the background. Do you meet friends for lunch. Do you ‘go to work’ or just go to where your computer is and login?

I've definately been like a robot and a hermit. I am starting to get out a bit more now, in the gym , but meeting friends for lunch wouldnt work, I would be there for hours and I have only a couple of friends now , who tend to work all the time too.

 

[Lukejohn]

@Lukejohn
A number of great answers here addressing the practical side of how to change your WFH situation but i specifically liked the post from @estwig as it represents a slightly different angle as in addressing the allocation of how you spend your time and suggesting a change in perspective - IMO this is spot on.

FYI I only work 100% from home and still not got it totally right however, i have adopted a similar approach to @estwig and had radical improvements. You see without trying to spell out the obvious, by putting your desk somewhere else, in a Cafe, in a shared office, in a gym, heck even in your back garden under a tree, whilst may deliver some immediate minor relief it wont cure the underlying issue here: which i consider is in fact that you need to improve your mental health and well being, the old work/life balance we all hear about.

What you need to do is divide up your entire time better, work smarter. Is 100% of your time you spend actually productive? Are you allocating enough time in your day to the right things and moreover in a week are you spending enough time on other elements of your well being life. Get the balance right. I was once given a life balance wheel, i cant find it now but here are a few examples, so you get the general idea:-

Wellness Wheel:

Focus on Flourishing with the Wellness Wheel | Vibrant Soulful Wellness

🌿 Focus on Flourishing! Are you thriving—or just going through the motions? This blog explores the Wellness Wheel, a simple tool to help you reflect on eight key areas of your life and notice where balance and attention are needed. Take a moment to pause, assess, and discover small ways to...

www.vibrantsoulful.com

Another one where you can print a wheel off also a short video clip:-

Why is the Wellness Wheel Important?

Learn what the wellness wheel is, and check out its important benefits for your health and happiness. Keep life balanced across all of these dimensions.

www.1and1life.com

Another Example of the concept this one also drills down a bit deeper

Understanding the Wellness Wheel — Talkspace

The wellness wheel is a tool for self exploration and promotes a balanced life of value and meaning. Read about the seven dimensions of wellness here.

www.talkspace.com

Give this a try and you will likely find you end up in a situation where you will work at your desk for couple of hours busy solid, go off and do something else, then return later. In the summer i will take a whole day out to go fishing once a week (environmental), I don't care if i catch a fish or not, it's the tranquility of the lakeside and when i go back to my desk, I'm loving it more because i feel great. Right this second, I'm posting on this forum hopefully helping someone else (intellectual) again its adding into my wellbeing.

If you can improve your life balance, you wont give WFH a second thought, it just wont matter or be an issue, you will consider it part of your life style, the part that supports the financial part of your general well being hence you then sit at your desk, do your couple of hours, drink your tea and with a wry smile on your face, take a big breath and say "I'm loving life..."

Good Luck

I think this is excellent advice. I did the wheel and well I can see exactly where I need to improve. I have started taking some time out and mixing things up a bit. I think I have just been working to hard and putting extra pressure on myself to be glued to the screen. In a job years ago, I would of course walk across the office and stop for a chat (probably half hour) . Today I cleaned my decking for half hour - it felt good. I've also started calling collaborators on my business more just for a bit of a chat, which is helping. The whole pay it forward is great, and I actually think its my mental health suffering more than anything. Too much negativity surrounding me, I have started removing aspects of that where I can - there is a long way to go though to try and increase my positivity. Great advice though!

 

[fisicx]

We've got chickens. I go and talk to then a lot. They are good listeners even if their only reply is 'bok'. Talking to them often fixes whatever struggles I was having. For example, I couldn't work out how to do a bit of code but after a chat with flossy I worked out what I was doing wrong. Fixed the code and rewarded myself with a cup of tea.

 

[The Byre]

I trust that your HR* procedures were adhered to and that Flossy received a bonus for services outside of her usual duties.

*Hen Resouces.

 

[Bob Morgan]

I always refer to HR as 'Human Remains!'

 

[Newchodge]

I always refer to HR as 'Human Remains!'

Thank you.

 

[Mark T Jones]

I trust that your HR* procedures were adhered to and that Flossy received a bonus for services outside of her usual duties.

*Hen Resouces.

You wouldn't want to fall fowl of regulations.