New Start-up Seeking Serious Investors.

[Deleted member 353356]

And that is the sniff test. Nathan posted a link to a website. The website did not pass the sniff test. It is what we call in German an Armutszeugnis - a certificate of poverty.


Imagine two people come to you with an idea for a big movie. One is called John and the other is called James. John wants to make a movie about green space monkeys. James wants to make a movie about blue space monkeys.

You look at what they've done so far. John made a slasher movie that failed, so you shake your head. James made Avatar and his second name is Cameron. Your next question should be "Where do I sign and how big a slice can I get?"

Businesses are made of people. We don't invest in ideas. We invest in people.

"We invest in people"

When you use the word we, are you talking about me, or you?

if you're talking about you, then go on then, spill the beans. Who are you investing in? What shares in which companies do you own? I'm performing my own sniff test.

I do not need condescending analogies, and I also would like you to define "poverty".

I'd also like to hear the thought process behind how you come to such conclusions without having one single piece of information to form an opinion from?

I appreciate your time, but you obviously have a little too much of it, and that to me is Armutszeugnis.

 

[NickGrogan]

Why aren't they investing?

How much are you looking for?

Still waiting for a reply on this.

 

[UKSBD]

This has been attempted multiple times and fails almost every time due to the amount of money needed to get it in front of the construction sector and THEN having to change their way of doing things

CMO are having a good go at it.

@Wilde86 How is this going differ to what CMO are doing?

 

[DEBS Ltd]

Regardless of how good an idea you have, you don't seem to be doing a great job of promoting the opportunity.

You've been down this road many time before. Why can't you get the money then?

You're talking down the people in this thread and also the forum. Then telling people not to post.

You won't give any real idea whatsoever as to what investment you need.

You want to interview the investors to see if they're worthy of investing with you.

All 4 of these points above are YOU problems.

Even on the basis of that, if I had been interested in investing, I wouldn't be after reading even this exchange.

 

[fisicx]

There really is no point in responding unless you are, or know of, an investor who would be willing to sign an NDA and take a look or a sound business proposal.

Spoken to someone who might be interested but is not prepared to sign an NDA. He is a building supplier and would want to see that the business is viable. Even if you have only launched locally and are successful that’s enough to get him onboard. He knows the right people as well so it could open doors. But only if you can demonstrate the business is viable. Right now he isn’t convinced as getting people to change how they do things is really difficult.

 

[Mark T Jones]

There's a depressing sense of Deja vu here!

Before I nod off, or disappear on holiday, here are some fairly safe assumptions about 'serious investors':

• They aren't sitting around waiting for the next big thing. They (or rather their team) are wading through a packed inbox to see if anything jumps out as being a cut above the rest.
• Whatever it is that impresses them needs to jump out quickly and clearly.
• They won't enjoy the arrogant 'I'll show you my business plan if you prove you're worth it' approach.
• If more than 5% of your presentation is about 'the idea'., you've probably got it wrong.
• They need to be able to work with you, so how you come across personally is very important.
• Oh, without giving away your darkest secrets, they need to be very clear up front what they are risking and what their reward will be.

 

[japancool]

When you use the word we, are you talking about me, or you?

if you're talking about you, then go on then, spill the beans. Who are you investing in? What shares in which companies do you own? I'm performing my own sniff test.

I know what Byre means by that.

He means that investors tend to look less at the actual idea, but rather at the people involved. Are they the right people to build a business? Do they have the drive and the nous to carry the idea through to completion? That's why he wants to know more about the people behind the idea.

Thing is, you can have the best idea in the world, but if the people pitching it haven't got the foggiest, it won't succeed. You can see this sort of thing on Dragons' Den (which is a poor example to use, as it's a TV show, not a real investor pitch), when the dragons are faced by people who really impress them, and they make an offer on that basis alone. Compare that to the pitch by the guy who turned up in a kilt, who had no idea of numbers and was making it up as he went along.

Byre, as far as I know (I don't know him from Adam, just based on what he has posted here) has been involved in a number of businesses over many years, so he has some idea of what he's talking about. He doesn't need me to speak for him though, I'm just trying to clarify a little. I don't think he's being condescending.

 

[The Byre]

There was never any need for an NDA. The companies involved are Easymerchant Ltd. and Drainage, Spares Pipework Supplies Ltd., (both drainage supply companies) with further links to Freshwell Builders Ltd. Easymerchant seems to be acting as the online shop for Drainage, Spares Pipework Supplies and is located at the same address - a farm building in Essex.

I assume Nathan is trying to expand into becoming a full-range building supplies company. I may of course be assuming wrongly!

Byre, as far as I know (I don't know him from Adam, just based on what he has posted here) has been involved in a number of businesses over many years, so he has some idea of what he's talking about.

Running a business can be a hard game to play and building supplies seems to be brutally competitive and the advent of CMO with a launch budget of tens of millions has not made it any easier!

I wish young Nathan and his gang the best of luck - he's going to need it, especially with house prices and new starts beginning to fall off and a healthy bout of stagflation stalking the land. Many loss-making zombies are going to feel a very chill wind blowing up their kilts - particularly if inflation collapses into deflation, as that would put government spending totally out of balance.

Whether I know what I am talking about or not - I'll let others decide!

Or as Burns put it -

“O, wad some Power the giftie gie us​

To see oursels as others see us!​

It wad frae monie a blunder free us,​

An' foolish notion.”​

(He was probably looking for a mirror at the time!)

 

[japancool]

Whether I know what I am talking about or not - I'll let others decide!

I have decided you're a grumpy old git.

 

[Newchodge]

I have decided you're a grumpy old git.

Always has been. [Nodding head]

 

[Clinton]

Damn, I really don't like competition!

 

[Deleted member 353356]

There was never any need for an NDA. The companies involved are Easymerchant Ltd. and Drainage, Spares Pipework Supplies Ltd., (both drainage supply companies) with further links to Freshwell Builders Ltd. Easymerchant seems to be acting as the online shop for Drainage, Spares Pipework Supplies and is located at the same address - a farm building in Essex.

I assume Nathan is trying to expand into becoming a full-range building supplies company. I may of course be assuming wrongly!

Running a business can be a hard game to play and building supplies seems to be brutally competitive and the advent of CMO with a launch budget of tens of millions has not made it any easier!

I wish young Nathan and his gang the best of luck - he's going to need it, especially with house prices and new starts beginning to fall off and a healthy bout of stagflation stalking the land. Many loss-making zombies are going to feel a very chill wind blowing up their kilts - particularly if inflation collapses into deflation, as that would put government spending totally out of balance.

Whether I know what I am talking about or not - I'll let others decide!

Or as Burns put it -

“O, wad some Power the giftie gie us​

To see oursels as others see us!​

It wad frae monie a blunder free us,​

An' foolish notion.”​

(He was probably looking for a mirror at the time!)

Finally someone who's on the money, almost!

Indeed, EasyMerchant is one of my businesses and your analysis of it is pretty much how it was set up in 2018.

CMO have done an excellent job in the online space, EasyMerchant isn't quite at their level, but it's investment came from me alone, it's a different scale all together.

The concept I have here is something completely different and not related to EasyMerchant at all, except for it being within the same industry.

I appreciate everyone here who's replied with an open mind. I have secured a meeting with a very exciting investor from within the industry on Friday - so let's see how that goes, I appreciate the well wishes of luck.

Nathan.

 

[Deleted member 353356]

Spoken to someone who might be interested but is not prepared to sign an NDA. He is a building supplier and would want to see that the business is viable. Even if you have only launched locally and are successful that’s enough to get him onboard. He knows the right people as well so it could open doors. But only if you can demonstrate the business is viable. Right now he isn’t convinced as getting people to change how they do things is really difficult.

I'd be interested in speaking with him and would appreciate the connection! Thank you!

I have the ex sales director of the UK's largest plastics manufacturer on board already, and being within the industry in various levels myself for 15 years or so we'll likely already know each other as the industry is very incestous.

I'd talk to him without an NDA depending on who it is, however I obviously wouldn't be able to show the business plan or sensitive details, however I do think that within two minutes of speaking with us that he will be willing to sign the NDA to find out more.

 

[Deleted member 353356]

Regardless of how good an idea you have, you don't seem to be doing a great job of promoting the opportunity.

You've been down this road many time before. Why can't you get the money then?

You're talking down the people in this thread and also the forum. Then telling people not to post.

You won't give any real idea whatsoever as to what investment you need.

You want to interview the investors to see if they're worthy of investing with you.

All 4 of these points above are YOU problems.

Even on the basis of that, if I had been interested in investing, I wouldn't be after reading even this exchange.

That's because I have not promoted the opportunity here, and anyone with anything between their ears will understand why.

I've already explained that we have seed investment already and we're now looking for series A investment, ie, a much larger investment now we have proof of concept.

As an investor, you want to work with someone who not only has an excellent idea, but also has resilience, ethic, morals, drive and more. You, as an investor, want the person you're investing in to identify you because they have done their research and they know that you are the right person to help them.

We are fortunately not in a position where we're cap in hand approaching just any investor with money. We only want to work with the right investor, who has something to offer us.

As I mentioned before, I think posting on this forum was a mistake. I don't think I'll get anything useful here, but you live and learn.

All the best!

 

[Deleted member 353356]

CMO are having a good go at it.

@Wilde86 How is this going differ to what CMO are doing?

CMO are doing well, their issues come from not holding the stock, so the customers become frustrated with delivery and stock issues as CMO are not in control (It's all drop shipping), so they struggle with reputation for being reliable, which can be seen from their Trustpilot profile.

Being reliable and keeping control of the stock / deliveries is key in my opinion, looking after the customer and making their lives easier was the concept behind EasyMerchant, customer comes first.

My business model for this start up is a completely different thing altogether. It would not be competing with CMO as my current business does.

 

[Deleted member 353356]

I wholeheartedly agree. It's far too easy to be distracted by debating opinions on the idea or concept.

What actually matters is research; experience and verifiable facts.

Are your seed investors not connected in this area?

Yeah, our seed investor is from within the industry already which is a help to us. What we really want from the next investor is someone who can fill one of our weaknesses.

We're very well set up when it comes to development of the software, the connections within the industry and marketing, however we could certainly benefit from someone with experience building big brands, or another skill that could strengthen the team we already have by filling one of our weaknesses.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

Yeah, our seed investor is from within the industry already which is a help to us. What we really want from the next investor is someone who can fill one of our weaknesses.

Seed Investor!

Its all falling into place here

Your with that bloke on here the other day that was looking for an investor to grow turnips in Ukraine all part of the same conglomerate.

Its the terminology that bothers me I have had 30 years trading and it just dont get said!

On the other hand despite my age I am still very ambitions (still need a bit of dosh to pay for the villa)

 

[UKSBD]

Running a business can be a hard game to play and building supplies seems to be brutally competitive and the advent of CMO with a launch budget of tens of millions has not made it any easier!

I was looking at their accounts the other week (just the drainage supply part of the group).
Over £2m spent on the website and branching in to AI.

 

[Newchodge]

You, as an investor, want the person you're investing in to identify you because they have done their research and they know that you are the right person to help them.

We are fortunately not in a position where we're cap in hand approaching just any investor with money.

As I mentioned before, I think posting on this forum was a mistake

So what on earth were you expecting to get from posting on this forum?

 

[CharlesAllEars]

Worth putting your feelers out in the Bristol area. Quite a few active investor groups sniffing around the tech/creative start-up scene. Bristol Creative Industries an obvious route in.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

So what on earth were you expecting to get from posting on this forum?

Posting an idea and an intention to seek investors on here is a very good idea
First, If your looking through the forum and all the other info and videos from UKBF you will start to gather all the tools you need to put your presentation together in the real world.

When you have done that and gone back and prepared your investment presentation your next operation is to post it on here stating your intention to seek investors and what your idea is

You will then get honest and reliable feedback from possible investors(maybe) but more importantly people who work with investors, understand investors and advise and arrange money for investment
You will then get advice from start ups who have gained investment from the various channels available and they will give there experiences

You will then get advice from those who have been in business a long time and will share there experience

Over the years on here one of the biggest mistakes that people make when sharing there ideas are believing that they know more than the forum members this is often reflected in the business degree textbook terminology where a start up will simply alienate themselves by making themselves look fake.

If something is being highlighted by the membership on here then that is the exact help you need because these faults will be magnified further on in your quest to seek investment.

None of us are exempt from the brutal honesty of this site
I myself am at the start of a website rebuild and the people I trust on here have given me some honest feedback on what is required and they have opened my eyes up to what I did not see.

I know these people they know me . They are being honest because they know if I follow their advice that they would want it to work because they like to help and that's why we are here .

Basically if your seeking investment and this is fairly new to you , You don't know more than the members of this site and you are not smarter than them

Hope this helps

 

[Newchodge]

Posting an idea and an intention to seek investors on here is a very good idea
First, If your looking through the forum and all the other info and videos from UKBF you will start to gather all the tools you need to put your presentation together in the real world.

When you have done that and gone back and prepared your investment presentation your next operation is to post it on here stating your intention to seek investors and what your idea is

You will then get honest and reliable feedback from possible investors(maybe) but more importantly people who work with investors, understand investors and advise and arrange money for investment
You will then get advice from start ups who have gained investment from the various channels available and they will give there experiences

You will then get advice from those who have been in business a long time and will share there experience

Over the years on here one of the biggest mistakes that people make when sharing there ideas are believing that they know more than the forum members this is often reflected in the business degree textbook terminology where a start up will simply alienate themselves by making themselves look fake.

If something is being highlighted by the membership on here then that is the exact help you need because these faults will be magnified further on in your quest to seek investment.

None of us are exempt from the brutal honesty of this site
I myself am at the start of a website rebuild and the people I trust on here have given me some honest feedback on what is required and they have opened my eyes up to what I did not see.

I know these people they know me . They are being honest because they know if I follow their advice that they would want it to work because they like to help and that's why we are here .

Basically if your seeking investment and this is fairly new to you , You don't know more than the members of this site and you are not smarter than them

Hope this helps

Thanks Jeremy, I couldn't agree more. But for this poster, if you consider the statements I copied into my post, I don't understand what he expected to get from here..

 

[fisicx]

I'd be interested in speaking with him and would appreciate the connection! Thank you!

I have the ex sales director of the UK's largest plastics manufacturer on board already, and being within the industry in various levels myself for 15 years or so we'll likely already know each other as the industry is very incestous.

I'd talk to him without an NDA depending on who it is, however I obviously wouldn't be able to show the business plan or sensitive details, however I do think that within two minutes of speaking with us that he will be willing to sign the NDA to find out more.

He is not interested in disrupting the industry. He will invest if what you offer benefits his current business.

He also wonders what relevance a plastics manufacturer has to a building supplier. He sells timber, insulation, bricks and breize blocks and so on. The only plastics he stocks is coving, sofits and trunking.

Basically, he will invest if it benefits his business. He doesn’t want a disruptor as that will hurt his business.

 

[Clinton]

My advice has always been that you don't just give NDAs out to anyone. You need to vet the party first before sharing any information with them.

I've written countless articles about selling businesses, on my website, in business magazines / financial journals / whatever. I've always been clear on one thing - vet buyers carefully before engaging as most of them are not genuine buyers, they either tyre-kickers or they're looking to get information and ideas from you and then they'll pull out of the purchase.

So the logic the OP uses about vetting investors is sound. The problem is that this advice applies to established businesses ...and he doesn't own an established business.

With startups, the situation is different. You have almost nothing of value to protect! So you can't be precious about it.

With an established business, the buyer / investor will dig into the business and get a ton of data that he could use against you - which of your staff are most productive, which suppliers are the most reliable and cost effective, the names and addresses of all your customers etc.

This is all information that could be very damaging if he uses it to set up in competition with you, or if he invests in one of your competitors.

As a startup if you're asking for an NDA you're worried about someone stealing your stuff. But your stuff is mainly your "idea". If you've got nothing else of solid value behind that idea, and the barrier to entry is so, so low that anyone could startup in competition tomorrow, then it's a terrible investment proposition!

What founders often fail to realise is that they don't have a freaking business!

When you're selling an established business, you're selling something with demonstrated value.

When a founder is trying to raise money he's selling nothing but a bloody dream. If only they could see that.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Thanks Jeremy, I couldn't agree more. But for this poster, if you consider the statements I copied into my post, I don't understand what he expected to get from here..

The law of averages suggests that they wanted either an easy route to get investment, or to hear the answers they wanted to hear.

Specific to this thread, the OP started at a slightly higher level than most 'fund my idea' threads - but 3 pages in has generated a lot more heat than light!

To keep my sanity (what little remains) I try to gear my responses to the wider audience rather than Specific to the OP.

I don't always succeed

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

To keep my sanity (what little remains) I try to gear my responses to the wider audience rather than Specific to the OP.

That's where I'm going wrong!

Preach to the masses
Not the moron ?

 

[Deleted member 353356]

My advice has always been that you don't just give NDAs out to anyone. You need to vet the party first before sharing any information with them.

I've written countless articles about selling businesses, on my website, in business magazines / financial journals / whatever. I've always been clear on one thing - vet buyers carefully before engaging as most of them are not genuine buyers, they either tyre-kickers or they're looking to get information and ideas from you and then they'll pull out of the purchase.

So the logic the OP uses about vetting investors is sound. The problem is that this advice applies to established businesses ...and he doesn't own an established business.

With startups, the situation is different. You have almost nothing of value to protect! So you can't be precious about it.

With an established business, the buyer / investor will dig into the business and get a ton of data that he could use against you - which of your staff are most productive, which suppliers are the most reliable and cost effective, the names and addresses of all your customers etc.

This is all information that could be very damaging if he uses it to set up in competition with you, or if he invests in one of your competitors.

As a startup if you're asking for an NDA you're worried about someone stealing your stuff. But your stuff is mainly your "idea". If you've got nothing else of solid value behind that idea, and the barrier to entry is so, so low that anyone could startup in competition tomorrow, then it's a terrible investment proposition!

What founders often fail to realise is that they don't have a freaking business!

When you're selling an established business, you're selling something with demonstrated value.

When a founder is trying to raise money he's selling nothing but a bloody dream. If only they could see that.

So inventors and software developers openly spill the beans about the product / tool / software they have invented / created, before they pitch it to an investor?

It just doesn't work that way at all. Usually an NDA is signed even with the developers before even the initial business is set up in any way.

You're just thinking inside a box of some kind of limited trading company.

Three NDA's signed and three meetings set up for next week now, so fingers crossed!

 

[Deleted member 353356]

To admin:

Please may I request the deletion of this thread?

Kind regards.

 

[The Byre]

I have signed many an NDA in my lifetime - and each time I was fully aware that it gave the other party absolutely zero protection in reality.

There is a touching and almost mythical belief in some who have not yet been around the block as often as I have, that somehow my lips will be forever sealed and what I have between my ears is never going to escape my lips. In my case, I do shut the F up - but not everyone is me!

And I have read and translated technical documents worth tens of millions on such things as data reduction simply by using a different type of mathematics that is neither binary nor decimals, or the confidential assessments of companies targeted for purchase.

Try litigating against someone who has broken (in your opinion - not theirs!) the terms of an NDA! Life is short enough as it is, without shoveling large sums into the rapacious mouths of £300-per-hour lawyers because that brilliant idea you had a couple of years ago seems to have been picked up and copied by someone connected with someone you spoke to once.

All you get is a £2,000 written position paper on why you should drop the idea of legal action.

 

[Deleted member 353356]

I have signed many an NDA in my lifetime - and each time I was fully aware that it gave the other party absolutely zero protection in reality.

There is a touching and almost mythical belief in some who have not yet been around the block as often as I have, that somehow my lips will be forever sealed and what I have between my ears is never going to escape my lips. In my case, I do shut the F up - but not everyone is me!

And I have read and translated technical documents worth tens of millions on such things as data reduction simply by using a different type of mathematics that is neither binary nor decimals, or the confidential assessments of companies targeted for purchase.

Try litigating against someone who has broken (in your opinion - not theirs!) the terms of an NDA! Life is short enough as it is, without shoveling large sums into the rapacious mouths of £300-per-hour lawyers because that brilliant idea you had a couple of years ago seems to have been picked up and copied by someone connected with someone you spoke to once.

All you get is a £2,000 written position paper on why you should drop the idea of legal action.

This I fully agree with. That's why I simply do not talk details with anyone unless I have first identified that 1) They are the right person, and 2) They're likely to be interested and get on board.

 

[Gecko001]

He is not interested in disrupting the industry. He will invest if what you offer benefits his current business.

He also wonders what relevance a plastics manufacturer has to a building supplier. He sells timber, insulation, bricks and breize blocks and so on. The only plastics he stocks is coving, sofits and trunking.

Basically, he will invest if it benefits his business. He doesn’t want a disruptor as that will hurt his business.

Yes a lot of plastic is used in building these days. I do not think it is a good trend, but there you have it. Here are some more things: waste pipes, gullies, inspection chambers, downpipes, guttering, barge boards, vent covers, roof sheeting, side cladding, fixings and clips etc.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

Thanks Jeremy.

Unfortunately, as with most internet communities they tend to be filled with keyboard warriors with very little to show for themselves other than to try to bash other people and make themselves look intelligent while hiding behind a persona on the internet.

Thought this forum was a long shot and I was correct. I think the community here is more focussed on those first starting out, maybe local service businesses or so. Perhaps not tech development. I can plainly see from some of the comments on this forum that that is the case here.

I don't wish to offend anyone but I would like to find one example of one business owner ever who's invented / created innovate software or service which offers true value to its user in a way that has not been done before that has come to this forum and spoken in detail about what's been created. It just will never happen.

I'd delete this thread, but I can't find the option to unfortunately.

Wishing everyone the best.

One of the most and I believe the first major online accounting systems played out on start up with a real entrepreneur called Dwain on this very forum and I think if you go through the UKBF videos you will see Richards interview with him .
Its very important that you watch it because you will pick up some good tips

 

[Ethan39]

I'm locking this thread for the time being.