- Original Poster
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As Putin war intensifies, we sit here and wonder what happens next, how far will this go and how can this situation be resolved?
Putins's Nuclear threat to the West
- Thread starter HFE Signs
- Start date
I’m fairly surprised that he didn’t pop a little nuke onto Westminster on Monday, whilst the whole country was in a dozy daze and we had world leaders aplenty in the target zone like sitting ducks!
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If Putin wants some real smoke he should go to Leicester
Those boys wont put up with any of these fake threats They will finish him off
Those boys wont put up with any of these fake threats They will finish him off
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Why? He’s been slaughtering thousands of people for 6 months or more, and nobody has even tried to arrest him! If you tried that here you’d have your collar felt (if the police bothered to turn up)
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T
The Byre
We've been eating their lunch for decades, so it was only a matter of time before the Russian Bear woke up with a flea in its ear, angry that whilst it was sleeping, someone sneaked into its cave and stole its cache of Winter nuts.
The fact is that Russia is falling apart. Its leaders blame the West of course, but facts are facts. It has been giving its natural resources away and it has lost nearly all of its Soviet empire, with just one puppet in Belarus who very obviously cannot last.
Russia cannot become the prosperous nation it should be until it solves its problems - poverty, corporate crime and corruption at every level and a deliberately stultifying bureaucracy. And Putin is part of that long list of problems.
He was a problem solver, after the chaos of Yeltsin and for a while, Russia moved ahead and the nation looked as if it might prosper. But old habits of self-preservation and a growing kleptocracy, combined with growing authoritarian measures as a part of that desire to survive returned - a bear is always a bear!
Putin also made the same mistake the US forces made in Afghanistan - he believed the lies his generals told him. The US believed that the Afghan forces were what the Afghan generals reported them to be - they were in fact a vast phantom payroll scam.
Putin believed that stores of petrol and Diesel were available, that repairs and maintenance were performed, that soldiers were fully trained, that food and other provisions had been bought - in short, he believed that he had a fully fighting fit army.
What he had was a huge and very dysfunctional rambling, shambling raggle-taggle collection of untrained and unprepared conscripts that had been pressured into contract extensions. The equipment they were issued was post-war at best, well, those bits that functioned at least!
Putting more of the same into active service will give the same results - but on a grander scale.
The fact is that Russia is falling apart. Its leaders blame the West of course, but facts are facts. It has been giving its natural resources away and it has lost nearly all of its Soviet empire, with just one puppet in Belarus who very obviously cannot last.
Russia cannot become the prosperous nation it should be until it solves its problems - poverty, corporate crime and corruption at every level and a deliberately stultifying bureaucracy. And Putin is part of that long list of problems.
He was a problem solver, after the chaos of Yeltsin and for a while, Russia moved ahead and the nation looked as if it might prosper. But old habits of self-preservation and a growing kleptocracy, combined with growing authoritarian measures as a part of that desire to survive returned - a bear is always a bear!
Putin also made the same mistake the US forces made in Afghanistan - he believed the lies his generals told him. The US believed that the Afghan forces were what the Afghan generals reported them to be - they were in fact a vast phantom payroll scam.
Putin believed that stores of petrol and Diesel were available, that repairs and maintenance were performed, that soldiers were fully trained, that food and other provisions had been bought - in short, he believed that he had a fully fighting fit army.
What he had was a huge and very dysfunctional rambling, shambling raggle-taggle collection of untrained and unprepared conscripts that had been pressured into contract extensions. The equipment they were issued was post-war at best, well, those bits that functioned at least!
Putting more of the same into active service will give the same results - but on a grander scale.
And that - in reality - is where he is right now!
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Think Russia is bad? Just wait until China invades Taiwan. Then all the businesses that buy from China will be stuffed.
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T
The Byre
Taiwan is a very different matter - The Chinese army (PLA) is better motivated and better equipped. Also, Taiwan is fully armed and any attempt at invasion would be met with a massive response from both the Taiwanese and the US military. It would be a war on a very different scale!
For those reasons, China will not invade Taiwan - it will, however, buy it one day. That may take many decades, but they are a patient people!
But I want you to imagine that Hitler did not shoot himself in a bunker, but escaped to the Isle of Sylt with his generals and staff. And the US allowed him and his entourage to sit there - and their descendants were still there today.
How do you think modern Germany would like that situation? It would be a constant reminder of a painful past when they were ruled by an evil cabal of murderous fascist despots who escaped justice.
That game is slowly coming to an end anyway. Just as Japan after the war was a source of cheap tat, but then evolved into the exporter of high-quality tech goods that it is today, so China is going through the same process.
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Nah they wouldn't be able to surprisingly very difficult to do when you've multiple air defence and aegis destroyers nearby as well as various ground interceptors people don't realise how hard it actually would be also even if they nuked London all the top people would be in massive bunkers and the American president would have been on a jet out of there it's surprisingly hard to use a nuke to kill world leaders
Also an attack like that would basically mean not a single other country would defend Russia
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It's fun to revisit the vlad the invader thread https://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/threads/vlad-the-invader-why-not-just-take-him-out.417069/
Naming no names
Apart fom my own
And so on, ...
Naming no names
Apart fom my own
And so on, ...
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The fact that Ukraine has retaken a swathe of land and Russia is calling reservists suggests that they're not chuckling.
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Only thing that really worries me is that Russian law allows the first strike of Nukes to defend the borders if they are attacked.
These fake/fixed referenda in Southern/Eastern Ukraine will effectively move that border and thus the red line for Putin to claim justification for a tactical strike
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Do you really believe that? We didn’t even have the right kit for cannon fodder soldiers in the Middle East, let alone to defend against a bunch of nukes coming from the earth’s orbit!
Also, which countries are currently defending Russia?
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I stand by the comment, albeit taken out of context by yourself. I think I have been proven right, the West were not prepared to die for Ukraine, but perfectly happy for Ukraine to defend itself and serve the West in weakening Russia.
Hence my comment on Putin being more worried about his own survival. With the Russian Army thoroughly embarrassed and outfought by Ukraine, Putin will be worried about a military coup against him right now. It has happened many times before, he would be a fool to believe otherwise, I don’t think Putin is a fool.
Seriously? Our Government kills thousands each year, no one ever arrests them. Illegal war in Iraq, Covid measures etc etc.
I can never understand why people think we as a country seem to be exclusively whiter than white.
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Agree I think he'll be getting a stiff neck looking over is shoulder at the moment, history seems to suggest in Russia when your making a pigs ear of a war you suddenly get replaced
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We were so quick to not just close down our system of civil defence, but to actually destroy it that none of the old crazy untested systems even exist any longer. We scrapped the lot, knocked down or filled in the buildings and bunkers, removed all contact with the volunteer services, stopped any kind of exercises, even paperwork ones, and the County Emergency Planning officers role downgraded to a part-time role, added on top of a junior cicil servant's workload. One Emergency planning officer role (that was around 40K (from memory) in 1990, is now 22K pro rata. Uni graduates in charge of planning for each county in case nukes come flying in. When the wall came down, what I did wasn't needed any longer and all the systems scrapped, equipment destroyed and people forgotten about.
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My dad was in the Observer Corps
When he started at the GPO they asked if anyone had done cadets, as he had he was told he had volunteered for the observer corps as 1 of each 4 man crew had to be a GPO trained engineer allowed to use the comms frame.
I have distinct memories of climbing down the bunker on Denn Hill above Horsham in the early 70's when i was c4 years old. It had a set of bunks, a table and chair, some stuff in a cage (i am guessing the comms equipment in a faraday cage) some pipes coming in the roof with caps on the end and a dart board. Tiny for 4 guys to live in for 2 weeks (which i think was the plan when constructed)
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Agreed. But god knows what will happen if he used nukes. I can't imagine even China will be happy to see that. Perhaps that's the best hope, that China will pressure him not to do it.
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Only one in each group of three was designated a master and had radios, the others, just the phone. In a way, the whole system was so reliant on the people who just got dumped. Such a neat system though - shin up the ladder, replace the graph paper with the burn mark the blast produced, look at the overpressure meter and you have yield, bearing and angle - merge this with the data from the other two stations and you have the location and size of the bomb. My job was at the other end, and we'd watch the scientists drawing the results on the big perspex maps. If anyone is near London - the secret nuclear bunker at Kelvedon Hatch is well worth a visit, especially with Putin in angry mode.
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Type 45s are actually superior to the aegis when it comes to air defence.
Scotland and Portsmouth. Also some are based in Norway for the Aegis System. As well as BMD NATO we shall not forget.
Also since 2021 there is a plan to run a thing aegis shield across Europe
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I found pics on the web.
My memory wasn't too far wrong, I was sure it a set of bunks and i can't see the white metal cage with instruments in I remember - but it did still have the dart board
Horsham ROC Post – Subterranea Britannica
Subterranea Britannica is a society devoted to the study and investigation of man-made (including Nuclear Bunkers) and man-used underground places.
www.subbrit.org.uk
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FFS Aegis is not a class of ship it is a combat system that can be mounted on anything that supports 12 tonnes or more. Ideally preferred on ships.
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I know what the Aegis system is. You said, your words, not mine:
So I'm asking, which ships? It's a simple question.
In case you're unaware, Portsmouth, Scotland and Norway are not ships.
Ship (noun):
a large boat for travelling on water, especially across the sea.
So I'm asking, which ships? It's a simple question.
In case you're unaware, Portsmouth, Scotland and Norway are not ships.
Ship (noun):
a large boat for travelling on water, especially across the sea.
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I am reading the above as we have the type 45 destroyers some based in Scotland some in Portsmouth from memory we only have six in current service. When our (and I say this tongue in cheek) aircraft carriers are out and about they have one each for company. The worry is the Prince of Wales (the newest AC) is in dry dock back in Scotland after breaking down in the Solent a few weeks back and the Queen Elizabeth was still sitting in Portsmouth up until a couple of weeks ago
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Well a little update on my post above, slightly older story but I happen to know the situation has not changed and awful lot since. I seem to remember we once ruled the waves
www.navylookout.com
The Royal Navy’s Type 45 destroyers – status report - Navy Lookout
With the return of HMS Dragon to Portsmouth last week, at the time of writing, all six of the Type 45 destroyers are alongside or in dock. Depending on who you listen to, this is either an embarrassing disaster or entirely routine and no cause for concern. Here we look at the current situation and
www.navylookout.com
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The Type 45, while it is an air defence destroyer, isn't equipped with the Aegis combat system. It also has only half the missile capacity of the US Arleigh Burke class destroyer. Not all Aegis ships have ballistic missile defence capability though - the US has 33 such ships and Japan 4. Europe, in total, has none, though there are 9 Aegis equipped ships in the Norwegian and Spanish Navy. My earlier question was specifically about Aegis ships, not air defence ships, but I guess no answer is forthcoming on that.
Curiously, the Canadian version of the Type 26 frigate, currently in use by the Royal Navy, is planned to be Aegis equipped.
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Dude chill out here. Nobody cares but rest be assured that London was save from nuclear strikes on Monday. Just some lads on here joking a bit going back and forth.
Makes me wonder if this thread will make it on a security watch list with all those keywords in here.
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Yes your quite right they not equipped with Aegis and the more you look at our current capabilities its quite shocking how far we are lagging behind. And as far fetched as it may seem a conversation along these lines got shut down pretty quick on Twitter when info on the Queen Elizabeth was being discussed.
Interestingly the gossip around Portsmouth is the defence department are looking for a massive refund on the build costs for the Prince of Wales, maybe ill leave it there before I get a knock on the door ?
Interestingly the gossip around Portsmouth is the defence department are looking for a massive refund on the build costs for the Prince of Wales, maybe ill leave it there before I get a knock on the door ?
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So yeah they have three out of action and two back home as they were supposed to be out on other Deployments but conveniently they were recalled one due to the aircraft carrier hitting an issue with the prop and the other due to a inconvenient maintenance which I think they knew the queen was on her way out and brought them back tbh
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I find it funny that we're talking about these sophisticated defence systems off of the back of a comment about nuking an area where a lot of world leaders had gathered. Especially after Heathrow was shut down completely for 4 days because of a hobbyist drone pilot not so long ago.
If Russia had enough motive I'm sure they'll find a way regardless of a couple of broken-down destroyers with multi-million dollar defence systems mounted on their decks.
If Russia had enough motive I'm sure they'll find a way regardless of a couple of broken-down destroyers with multi-million dollar defence systems mounted on their decks.
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This assumes that Russia has working nuclear missiles.
The last test in 1990. That's is a long time ago. Especially with Russian levels of maintenance.
The tanks they're using don't look that great.
The last test in 1990. That's is a long time ago. Especially with Russian levels of maintenance.
The tanks they're using don't look that great.
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I think they have enough that even a 90% failure rate would leave Europe a nuclear waste ground
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