Wholesale stock -> Sole Trader, Online Only

[tsutton]

Hey all,

I'm looking to buy stock. I am a sole trader. I have found a few wholesale and contacted them. But many of them has this as their first question, which are "Do you have a shop or are you online only?"

As soon as I said "Online only", they ignore me.

How does others deal with this? How do I increase the chance for them to deal/work with me?

Thanks.

 

[japancool]

What kind of goods are you trying to buy?

 

[tsutton]

Does it matter to what goods I am trying to buy?

 

[Mr D]

Does it matter to what goods I am trying to buy?

Does make a difference, yes.

 

[Mr D]

Hey all,

I'm looking to buy stock. I am a sole trader. I have found a few wholesale and contacted them. But many of them has this as their first question, which are "Do you have a shop or are you online only?"

As soon as I said "Online only", they ignore me.

How does others deal with this? How do I increase the chance for them to deal/work with me?

Thanks.

Find suppliers that will sell to online only.

Who will sell to you? That is for you to find out.
How to find out? Ring them.


Snobbery is alive and well with suppliers - online only unfortunately have too many cowboys willing to undercut everyone to get the sale - and the shop sellers don't like it. So the suppliers cater to the shop sellers. For now.


A growing number of suppliers refuse to deal with online only sellers. In my field of business I have a list of better part of a hundred suppliers who currently will not sell to me.

Look around for your local wholesale suppliers in your area (many areas have wholesalers hidden away) and visit them. Look at trade fairs and find who exhibits, track down the companies and contact them.

 

[ecommerce84]

As @Mr D says, there are too many sellers on eBay, Amazon and other online sales channels that are willing to sell products for pennies more than they pay for them as they don’t understand business and/or value their own time.

Suppliers don’t really like this and as they can’t insist on minimum selling prices they just don’t supply to online only sellers instead.

 

[tsutton]

Thanks all, I guess I will keep trying with different wholesalers.

 

[Deleted member 335660]

Hey all,

I'm looking to buy stock. I am a sole trader. I have found a few wholesale and contacted them. But many of them has this as their first question, which are "Do you have a shop or are you online only?"

As soon as I said "Online only", they ignore me.

How does others deal with this? How do I increase the chance for them to deal/work with me?

Thanks.

Hi, Firstly we have a shop and are online but finding wholesalers is not easy these days. Many manufacturers are saying you cannot sell on Amazon or EBay. Others now deal direct with consumer and have there own website.

Have you tried the wholesale portals like Alibaba and Esources?

 

[Interestedobserver]

As @Mr D says, there are too many sellers on eBay, Amazon and other online sales channels that are willing to sell products for pennies more than they pay for them as they don’t understand business and/or value their own time.

.

And don't pay taxes on their sales

 

[Mr D]

And don't pay taxes on their sales

And a good thing too.
Be darn silly to pay taxes on sales for small businesses.

Least until it becomes a requirement. Perhaps in a year or two.

 

[Aniela]

Hi, Firstly we have a shop and are online but finding wholesalers is not easy these days. Many manufacturers are saying you cannot sell on Amazon or EBay. Others now deal direct with consumer and have there own website.

Have you tried the wholesale portals like Alibaba and Esources?

In the UK it's actually illegal for a manufacturer/wholesaler to specifically state you can not sell on Amazon or eBay etc. It's basically seen as a form of price control.

As with anything legal, people/businesses come up with workarounds.

While it's illegal for a manufacturer/wholesaler to state where you can sell, it's not illegal for them to choose who they do business with in the first place. So usually, they just choose not to let you be a customer.

It's interesting that this loophole hasn't been stopped, as it's one of the more obvious ones. Maybe it will one day. It is technically is just the wholesalers etc trying to control the market, which they shouldn't be.

 

[JustGettingOnWithIt]

there are too many sellers on eBay, Amazon and other online sales channels that are willing to sell products for pennies more than they pay for them as they don’t understand business and/or value their own time.

I think this is the crux of it.

I have my own brand product and put thousands of hours into R&D and ever improvement of the product. Initially we sold B2C only.

We decided to go after the B2B sales for a while, sold to B&M as well as online too. We found that B2B customers wanted large discounts and small quantities, free postage etc. All the things you expect as a consumer not always a business savvy person. They would then go on the likes of Amazon and sell for less than the product retails at and I would lose a retail sale when we lost the buy box. Race to the bottom that I wasn't going to participate in. So we either gave up our lucrative B2C or control/stop B2B so it didn't put us out of business! This is why manufacturers don't like the little businesses selling on Amazon and the like.

Some sellers were using inferior images, poorly designed listings and selling dirt cheap. This damages the brand in the long run.

I think Amazon cottoned on to this a long time ago. They guarantee a manufacturer like me lots of sales for around 20-25% cost, I control the listings and how the product is presented. I don't need resellers because Amazon can do the job. There will be a point where the middleman can't trade on Amazon anymore as Amazon are consistently going to the manufacturer for goods for their listings. You just need to look at the listings such as "Sold by Black and Decker, Fulfilled by Amazon". Direct from the manufacturer but leg work by Amazon.

My advice - start making something and sell that.

 

[Scottishgifts4u]

I used to go to trade shows.

Most of the wholesalers were happy to sell to online only but you got the occasional one that wasn’t. We just moved on to the next stall. Not worth bothering about when you have a big choice you can speak to in person. I would imagine it’s a bit more annoying if you have to look for suppliers, find contact details, phone or email them only to be told no thanks.

 

[Aniela]

I think this is the crux of it.

I have my own brand product and put thousands of hours into R&D and ever improvement of the product. Initially we sold B2C only.

We decided to go after the B2B sales for a while, sold to B&M as well as online too. We found that B2B customers wanted large discounts and small quantities, free postage etc. All the things you expect as a consumer not always a business savvy person. They would then go on the likes of Amazon and sell for less than the product retails at and I would lose a retail sale when we lost the buy box. Race to the bottom that I wasn't going to participate in. So we either gave up our lucrative B2C or control/stop B2B so it didn't put us out of business! This is why manufacturers don't like the little businesses selling on Amazon and the like.

Some sellers were using inferior images, poorly designed listings and selling dirt cheap. This damages the brand in the long run.

I think Amazon cottoned on to this a long time ago. They guarantee a manufacturer like me lots of sales for around 20-25% cost, I control the listings and how the product is presented. I don't need resellers because Amazon can do the job. There will be a point where the middleman can't trade on Amazon anymore as Amazon are consistently going to the manufacturer for goods for their listings. You just need to look at the listings such as "Sold by Black and Decker, Fulfilled by Amazon". Direct from the manufacturer but leg work by Amazon.

My advice - start making something and sell that.

When you tell people that story, you should maybe reword it as doing it specifically for the reason you stated, is illegal. That's considered a form of price fixing.

 

[JustGettingOnWithIt]

Was putting the alternative viewpoint over with an example.

I sold items to legitimate business in my sector until it became evident it wasn't a viable thing to do. I don't sell B2B now, that is my business perogative. I can choose who I sell to the same as you and anyone else.

I'm NOT price fixing, never did. What I did was NOT illegal. If you think so then get on and report it to whoever you think will listen or wind it in. I will wait for the knock on the door but won't hold my breath. Nothing more to say on that.

 

[DontAsk]

In the UK it's actually illegal for a manufacturer/wholesaler to specifically state you can not sell on Amazon or eBay etc. It's basically seen as a form of price control.

Citation for the law, please.

 

[Mr D]

When you tell people that story, you should maybe reword it as doing it specifically for the reason you stated, is illegal. That's considered a form of price fixing.

And yet plenty of big name brands have stated they will not allow their goods to be sold on xxx site. And simply refuse to sell to anyone who sells on that site.

Nothing to do with price fixing. Everything to do with choosing who to supply.

 

[Aniela]

Was putting the alternative viewpoint over with an example.

I sold items to legitimate business in my sector until it became evident it wasn't a viable thing to do. I don't sell B2B now, that is my business perogative. I can choose who I sell to the same as you and anyone else.

I'm NOT price fixing, never did. What I did was NOT illegal. If you think so then get on and report it to whoever you think will listen or wind it in. I will wait for the knock on the door but won't hold my breath. Nothing more to say on that.

I was just referring to this section of what you said "They would then go on the likes of Amazon and sell for less than the product retails at and I would lose a retail sale when we lost the buy box. Race to the bottom that I wasn't going to participate in."

It happens all the time, it's just businesses now get around that by just saying "They're choosing who they deal with", which is not illegal. It's the same end result but saying it one way means you've broken the law, saying it the other doesn't.

It's a loophole basically.

This is many years old and think he's referring to EU law here but for example: https://www.steeleslaw.co.uk/compet...ng-resold-on-websites-such-as-amazon-or-ebay/


"Although a less direct method of price control, forbidding a retailer from selling only online because the online retailer is able to undercut the supplier’s other customers, is also against the law."

You're not creating a fair and open market for customers essentially. There's a lot of random rules like that in regards to price etc.

 

[Aniela]

And yet plenty of big name brands have stated they will not allow their goods to be sold on xxx site. And simply refuse to sell to anyone who sells on that site.

Nothing to do with price fixing. Everything to do with choosing who to supply.

You're correct. There are extremely special circumstances where it is allowed.

However, in general, not selling to someone purely because they will undercut you, is illegal. Which is only what I was referring to.

 

[DontAsk]

You're correct. There are extremely special circumstances where it is allowed.

However, in general, not selling to someone purely because they will undercut you, is illegal. Which is only what I was referring to.

That's not what you said and, having been called out, you are now wriggling. Just cite the regulations, not some opinion piece.

 

[Jeff FV]

It works both ways, too.

An online platform - much as some would like to - can’t insist you give them exclusivity and only sell through their website. Years ago, when we sold through a platform that you won’t find on your local high street, they tried to stop all their sellers from also selling through their own websites. This was contested, found to be illegal, and we were allowed to sell wherever we liked.

 

[DontAsk]

This is many years old and think he's referring to EU law here but for example: https://www.steeleslaw.co.uk/compet...ng-resold-on-websites-such-as-amazon-or-ebay/


"Although a less direct method of price control, forbidding a retailer from selling only online because the online retailer is able to undercut the supplier’s other customers, is also against the law."

I suggest you read the whole article. It clearly outlines the circumstances under which restriction are acceptable.

 

[tsutton]

Well, it seems I've opened up something but very interesting reading - thank you for your contributions! I can see both sides and understand why business chose who to sell to.

 

[Aniela]

That's not what you said and, having been called out, you are now wriggling. Just cite the regulations, not some opinion piece.

If you call a commercial solicitors blog post an opinion piece, then that's your problem, not mine.

I know it's a legal requirement to wear a seatbelt while driving, but I couldn't quote you the specific law. Just like you know it's illegal to break into someone's home, but you couldn't tell me specifically under what law, without digging into laws.

You can know something, without knowing the exact law code/reference or whatever.

Not sure why you're even getting annoyed with me, as it's obviously a personal thing as you're trying to be pedantic. It's not my fault that the law is what it is, don't shoot the messenger as they say.

If I said driving without a seatbelt on is illegal, you wouldn't ask for citation. Just because your knowledge on this is lacking, doesn't mean people have to cite specific laws. If you don't believe me, hire a solicitor and pay them, for them to say what I am.

You just didn't know this was a thing, like most people don't.

There's a reason why a lot of wholesalers don't specifically state you can't sell on Amazon/Ebay but just ask where you will sell before letting you (or not) sign up with them. This is one of the main reasons; to not break the law. They can choose who to do business with, but not force conditions like the ones mentioned. (Except extremely rare and exceptional circumstances and those rarely happen.)

 

[DontAsk]

you're trying to be pedantic.

It's in my nature to be pedantic (on the spectrum) when someone is wrong.

There is no law that prevents on-line only sales restrictions. If you think otherwise you need to show some evidence.

 

[Aniela]

It's in my nature to be pedantic (on the spectrum) when someone is wrong.

There is no law that prevents on-line only sales restrictions. If you think otherwise you need to show some evidence.

What was discussed is illegal. You didn't know that. It's not the end of the world.

if you want the exact laws it would be covered under, hire a solicitor. Part of being in business is just to know what I can and can not do. I don't need to know/remember under what exact law(s) that's based on. Hire solicitors like I did, they will tell you that what I was originally discussing/quoting is illegal.

I don't know what laws driving without a seatbelt would be under but I can tell you for a fact that if I drove down the motorway without it, I would be breaking the law.

I appreciate you saying you're on the spectrum so are pedantic because of that, but don't let that cloud your judgement because at the moment, you're automatically saying something is wrong, purely because you didn't know it. That's not how it works, sorry.

You can't go around with the attitude of "If I didn't know that, it has to be wrong!"

 

[UKSBD]

It's in my nature to be pedantic (on the spectrum) when someone is wrong.

There is no law that prevents on-line only sales restrictions. If you think otherwise you need to show some evidence.

This is one of the most relevant sections - https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:12008E101:EN:HTML

 

[ecommerce84]

I think this is the crux of it.

I have my own brand product and put thousands of hours into R&D and ever improvement of the product. Initially we sold B2C only.

We decided to go after the B2B sales for a while, sold to B&M as well as online too. We found that B2B customers wanted large discounts and small quantities, free postage etc. All the things you expect as a consumer not always a business savvy person. They would then go on the likes of Amazon and sell for less than the product retails at and I would lose a retail sale when we lost the buy box. Race to the bottom that I wasn't going to participate in. So we either gave up our lucrative B2C or control/stop B2B so it didn't put us out of business! This is why manufacturers don't like the little businesses selling on Amazon and the like.

Some sellers were using inferior images, poorly designed listings and selling dirt cheap. This damages the brand in the long run.

I think Amazon cottoned on to this a long time ago. They guarantee a manufacturer like me lots of sales for around 20-25% cost, I control the listings and how the product is presented. I don't need resellers because Amazon can do the job. There will be a point where the middleman can't trade on Amazon anymore as Amazon are consistently going to the manufacturer for goods for their listings. You just need to look at the listings such as "Sold by Black and Decker, Fulfilled by Amazon". Direct from the manufacturer but leg work by Amazon.

My advice - start making something and sell that.

Absolutely agree with every word and really don’t blame you for stopping the B2B sales.

In the long run, they shoot themselves in the foot as I feel manufacturers will increasingly go down the route you have, so products that could have sold well for them for a good price are no longer available to them.

 

[Mr D]

Absolutely agree with every word and really don’t blame you for stopping the B2B sales.

In the long run, they shoot themselves in the foot as I feel manufacturers will increasingly go down the route you have, so products that could have sold well for them for a good price are no longer available to them.

We had a really great line we purchased from UK supplier and sold for several years.
However the ones interested only in sales caused problems for the shop retailers such the supplier had to ban all 3rd party site selling of the products. He had to give up decent loyal customers in order to be able to keep his business going.

Still see him at trade fairs and wave. Occasionally say hi. But the business relationship cannot progress further now.

For a business with 90 percent plus of its sales to shops... They would be fools to ignore the shops in favour of the internet sellers...