Bounce back loan

[Porky]

My own bank is not yet offering the loans. So which of the other banks currently supporting the scheme is offering loans to non existing clients:-

Santander - You need to open an account with them if you are not existing customer
NatWest - Existing customers only
Lloyds
HSBC - Yes but you need to open a temp account first before you can apply
RBS - Existing customers only
Barclays
Yorkshire Bank

I will update this post as replies come in

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

My own bank is not yet offering the loans. So which of the other banks currently supporting the scheme is offering loans to non existing clients:-

Santander
NatWest
Lloyds
HSBC - Yes but you need to open a temp account first before you can apply
RBS
Barclays
Yorkshire Bank

I will update this post as replies come in

Funding Circle look like they might get in on the action, although it will take them some weeks to sort it out, and I don’t expect high acceptance levels.

 

[MOIC]

Not sure if this has been mentioned in this thread, but if you do not bank with the "Main High Street Banks' then HSBC can accept your application, providing you open a 'Feeder Account'.

 

[MOIC]

. . . .Just scanned through the thread and it has been mentioned!

Apologies.

 

[Rotor]

There are probably thousands of businesses who are awaiting an answer on a CBILS loan of less than £50k and will eventually be converted over, but wouldn’t have applied today

I sent an email to Lloyds today to cancel my CBILs application and then put in for a BBL , I applied for the CBIL over a month ago and got nowhere .

 

[DEFCON1]

All done with Santander in one day.
Can’t argue with that.

Never taken a loan or finance for our business before. But this just seemed like bad business not to take the offer.

I wouldn’t hang around too long. Heard quite a few suggesting this may get pulled early.
The uptake will obviously be huge!

 

[Rotor]

From what I've read, there are no restrictions other than you have to use the loan for the company (i.e. you can't go and buy a new £2,000 flat screen tv for your living room at home, etc).

So, if your ltd company needs the cash for paying the wages of those who aren't furloughed, I believe that's ok. Lloyds even state you are free to use the loan to refinance your existing credit obligations although I'm not sure that was the governments intention

.
I think a few will see it as a gift not a loan , in 12 months it will all come home to roost

 

[anonuk]

All done with Santander in one day.
Can’t argue with that.

Never taken a loan or finance for our business before. But this just seemed like bad business not to take the offer.

I wouldn’t hang around too long. Heard quite a few suggesting this may get pulled early.
The uptake will obviously be huge!

Out of interest what time did you apply, etc?

 

[anonuk]

.
I think a few will see it as a gift not a loan , in 12 months it will all come home to roost

You’re right. People will be thinking wayhey, free money.

I’m actually sitting here looking at the criteria and I can’t find where I saw about retrospective checks on the loan applications. I just know people are going to abuse these loans and over estimate their turnover. Surely the treasury should have said ‘if you don’t know your actual turnover, work it out or get nothing’.

 

[anonuk]

I also notice that the government have now changed the criteria so that ‘businesses in difficulties’ are now allowed to apply. The government really want people to take these loans don’t they?

 

[Clinton]

Am I the only who thinks why the hell is the taxpayer guaranteeing loans to people who have not the vaguest idea about finance or business? Like the below:

Say I borrowed £10,000, will I pay corporate tax when it arrives in my account?

Could I use it to pay myself a ...dividend?

Or could I, as a LTD Company directory, apply for it myself, not through my company? As if I'm a sole trader?

and

Does a directors loan get included in turnover figures?

Yikes! These people run businesses? And we're lending them money?!

This Bullsh*t Bloody Lending Stupidity is not going to end well!

 

[Rotor]

I`m no economist but it does seem that it doesnt really matter who`s got the money so long as they spend it all quickly if the economy is to work , savers/ hoarders only benefit themselves .
The government knows if they give money to business people they will most likely spend it , whether wisely or not doesn't matter so long as it keeps changing hands.

 

[philipthechilip]

Am I the only who thinks why the hell is the taxpayer guaranteeing loans to people who have not the vaguest idea about finance or business?

After what happened in the lead up to 2008, when loans were being given to people with no proof of income, and no job, is this really news to you?

 

[Opinion87]

Am I the only who thinks why the hell is the taxpayer guaranteeing loans to people who have not the vaguest idea about finance or business? Like the below:

Yep. Without checks. Madness.


and



Yikes! These people run businesses? And we're lending them money?!

This Bullsh*t Bloody Lending Stupidity is not going to end well!

 

[trax7960]

This Bullsh*t Bloody Lending Stupidity is not going to end well!

I can’t help but feel you’ve completely missed the point.

These loans are there to be spent - they need to be dished out and shoved straight back up the economy as quickly as possible if we stand any chance of avoiding a recession.

This is a quick and dirty way of Quantitive Easing and will get cash flowing back into an economy when most of the country is on its knees.

If the gov’t get a bit back, that’s just the cherry on top. Really they need companies purchasing goods and services at double and triple the usual rate over the coming months to avoid a complete crash.

 

[Rotor]

I can’t help but feel you’ve completely missed the point.

These loans are there to be spent - they need to be dished out and shoved straight back up the economy as quickly as possible if we stand any chance of avoiding a recession.

This is a quick and dirty way of Quantitive Easing and will get cash flowing back into an economy when most of the country is on its knees.

If the gov’t get a bit back, that’s just the cherry on top. Really they need companies purchasing goods and services at double and triple the usual rate over the coming months to avoid a complete crash.

Exactly that, spend , spend , spend is the fastest way to get going again , we will see big winners and big losers in the next 12-18 months.

 

[Chawton]

Am I the only who thinks why the hell is the taxpayer guaranteeing loans to people who have not the vaguest idea about finance or business? Like the below:



and



Yikes! These people run businesses? And we're lending them money?!

This Bullsh*t Bloody Lending Stupidity is not going to end well!

Scary stuff to be sure but we crossed the Rubicon when we started paying employees to sit at home on furlough in all honesty. It all became fantasy finance from that point onwards.

 

[anonuk]

I can’t help but feel you’ve completely missed the point.

These loans are there to be spent - they need to be dished out and shoved straight back up the economy as quickly as possible if we stand any chance of avoiding a recession.

This is a quick and dirty way of Quantitive Easing and will get cash flowing back into an economy when most of the country is on its knees.

If the gov’t get a bit back, that’s just the cherry on top. Really they need companies purchasing goods and services at double and triple the usual rate over the coming months to avoid a complete crash.

And yet I still don't feel like we will avoid a recession. My plan for our loan is to use a bit to increase production (less than 25% of the loan) and stick the rest in our account for any future need that may or may not arise. I'm certainly not going to blow a stack load of cash because the government wants me to haha.

 

[Clinton]

I`m no economist but it does seem that it doesnt really matter who`s got the money so long as they spend it all quickly if the economy is to work , savers/ hoarders only benefit themselves.

and

I can’t help but feel you’ve completely missed the point.

No, you're the one who's missing the point.

This is not standard helicopter money. This is not a "grant". Decent businesses will be paying these loans back. And the others are already seeing it as a free hand out ...leading to questions like, "Can I take this out as a dividend?"

If the government intended it as you suggest, it wouldn't be a loan. Don't make excuses for the assh*les who have no intention of paying this back.

 

[Mr D]

I can’t help but feel you’ve completely missed the point.

These loans are there to be spent - they need to be dished out and shoved straight back up the economy as quickly as possible if we stand any chance of avoiding a recession.

This is a quick and dirty way of Quantitive Easing and will get cash flowing back into an economy when most of the country is on its knees.

If the gov’t get a bit back, that’s just the cherry on top. Really they need companies purchasing goods and services at double and triple the usual rate over the coming months to avoid a complete crash.

Cannot see us avoiding a recession.
Can see us avoiding making it worse than it already is.

And of course as businesses benefit the most from such loans and grants then expect the lion's share of paying for it all to be placed on business.
Who if they are smart pass on extra taxation to the customers.

Yes this is a quick and simple way of getting help out there. To the zombies, the idiots and the fraudsters too.
No way of being quick and avoiding all the 'undeserving' getting money, however you define that group. Slow will cost more businesses. So quick is preferred.

 

[trax7960]

Decent businesses will be paying these loans back. And the others are already seeing it as a free hand out ...leading to questions like, "Can I take this out as a dividend?"

If the government intended it as you suggest, it wouldn't be a loan

You mean our government actually figured out a way to give a cash grant to SMEs, and guilt half of them in to paying it back with interest?! Clever stuff. Completely intentional, but clever none the less.

 

[trax7960]

You mean our government actually figured out a way to give a cash grant to SMEs, and guilt half of them in to paying it back with interest?! Clever stuff. Completely intentional, but clever none the less.

In fact it gets even better, because the “assholes” that don’t intend to pay it back (which our government weren’t banking on anyway) will actually blow the cash even quicker, effecting an even quicker dose of adrenaline into our economy.

The sensible ones that hoard it for a rainy day are actually the ones going against their ‘real’ wishes - but guess what, they’re the ones that’ll pay it back!

 

[DEFCON1]

Out of interest what time did you apply, etc?

Around 11AM.

 

[Mr D]

In fact it gets even better, because the “assholes” that don’t intend to pay it back (which our government weren’t banking on anyway) will actually blow the cash even quicker, effecting an even quicker dose of adrenaline into our economy.

The sensible ones that hoard it for a rainy day are actually the ones going against their ‘real’ wishes - but guess what, they’re the ones that’ll pay it back!

Not sure why they are blowing the cash quicker than either expanding businesses or those using it to dig out of a hole.

The smart ones will use the cash to boost their business to much higher turnover and profit levels, making payment of loan a minor issue, perhaps a few percent of gross profit each month.
Rather than simply sit on it. Handy when a rainy day comes. What happens if a heatwave for the rest of the year?

 

[Red Wood]

Not sure why they are blowing the cash quicker than either expanding businesses or those using it to dig out of a hole.

The smart ones will use the cash to boost their business to much higher turnover and profit levels, making payment of loan a minor issue, perhaps a few percent of gross profit each month.
Rather than simply sit on it. Handy when a rainy day comes. What happens if a heatwave for the rest of the year?

100% agree. For those that run good businesses, the low-interest rate is an offer too good to refuse. Why wouldn't you take it?

 

[anonuk]

I’ve just been reading our loan agreement from Santander and must’ve completely missed the bit previously where they actually state you are not to use the loan for the purchase of fixed assets. What’s the point of a loan if you cannot buy assets with it?

 

[trax7960]

I’ve just been reading our loan agreement from Santander and must’ve completely missed the bit previously where they actually state you are not to use the loan for the purchase of fixed assets. What’s the point of a loan if you cannot buy assets with it?

Really..?

“A BBLS Loan from Santander can be used for a wide range of purposes, such as working capital or investment, as long as it supports trading or commercial activity in the UK.”

Sounds pretty wide-ranging to me!

 

[anonuk]

Really..?

“A BBLS Loan from Santander can be used for a wide range of purposes, such as working capital or investment, as long as it supports trading or commercial activity in the UK.”

Sounds pretty wide-ranging to me!

This is what it says....

G. Purpose
You may not use your loan to finance the purchase or hire of fixed assets, other than to replace existing assets with equivalent assets. The loan must be used wholly for the purpose of your Business and not for any personal or other non-business purpose.

 

[Mark T Jones]

This is what it says....

G. Purpose
You may not use your loan to finance the purchase or hire of fixed assets, other than to replace existing assets with equivalent assets. The loan must be used wholly for the purpose of your Business and not for any personal or other non-business purpose.

how do you think they will police it if you pay?

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

Reinvesting the loan into you company for growth will surly give the company a better chance of success.

 

[Spongebob]

Is there anything stopping businesses taking the loan, taking it as dividend or re-paying Directors Loan account and then using the Spongebob plan or whatever?

It's a loan from a third party to the company. Dividends can only be paid to shareholders from retained profits and an overdrawn Director's Loan Account can only be repaid by the director personally. If the money from loan was paid to the director as a "dividend" it would serve merely to increase the personal liability on his or her Director's Loan account. In the event of a liquidation the receiver would seek to reclaim this money from the director.

The Spongebob Plan is designed to assist directors of small companies facing insolvency. It is not and never has been intended to be a roadmap to defrauding HMRC, the government, or anyone else.

If people have used it for such purposes it makes me sad. The good it has done for thousands of desperate business-people facing financial ruin is incalculable.

I am sure that many companies in receipt of these Bounceback Loans unfortunately will still fail. The damage done to the economy in the last couple of months will be far greater than most people imagine. A loan of a few grand on favourable terms is not going to save every business which finds their turnover has collapsed completely while their overheads grind on relentlessly.

It is when these small companies face insolvency a few months down the line (and it could happen to any of us) that the Spongebob Plan comes into play. Not now in advance.

Maybe I should re-brand it The Spongebob Solution rather than The Spongebob Plan...

 

[Mark T Jones]

Reinvesting the loan into you company for growth will surly give the company a better chance of success.

The missing word here is ‘wisely’

if I was selling marketing or quick-fixes I’d be rubbing my hands together now.

 

[Ian J]

This is not standard helicopter money. This is not a "grant". Decent businesses will be paying these loans back. And the others are already seeing it as a free hand out ...leading to questions like, "Can I take this out as a dividend?"

If the government intended it as you suggest, it wouldn't be a loan. Don't make excuses for the assh*les who have no intention of paying this back.

It is a scumbags charter

 

[Ian J]

You tell them the turn over they cant check if you have two bank accounts

They can decline your application though if they think that you are being dishonest

 

[Spongebob]

It is a scumbags charter

I was initially surprised at the laxity of the lending criteria, and the complete lack of accountability for directors.

Having thought it through however, there is a certain logic from the government's point of view.

Get the money out there in a scattergun fashion to the base of the economy. This is money created out of thin air by the banks as debt in the traditional manner.

If three-quarters of the money flows back over 6 years that's a result. The government picks up the tab for the other 25%. Meanwhile 100% of the money has been flowing through the economy changing hands multiple times to the benefit of everyone, not least the Treasury.

It's classic Keynesian economics. What an irony that it took a Tory government in crisis to return to common sense after 40 years of Thatcherite neo-liberalism

 

[Rotor]

and


No, you're the one who's missing the point.

This is not standard helicopter money. This is not a "grant". Decent businesses will be paying these loans back. And the others are already seeing it as a free hand out ...leading to questions like, "Can I take this out as a dividend?"

If the government intended it as you suggest, it wouldn't be a loan. Don't make excuses for the assh*les who have no intention of paying this back.

Well f You if you are suggesting I dont intend paying it back , of course its a loan else it would be called a grant , its tax payers money and if you continue trading it will have to be paid back , if not your business will go down , you really are missing the point , the loans are to keep you trading , ie spend the money not hoard it , and as I said before , it doesnt matter if recipients spend it wisley or not ,so long as they spend it.

 

[Rotor]

Not sure why they are blowing the cash quicker than either expanding businesses or those using it to dig out of a hole.

The smart ones will use the cash to boost their business to much higher turnover and profit levels, making payment of loan a minor issue, perhaps a few percent of gross profit each month.
Rather than simply sit on it. Handy when a rainy day comes. What happens if a heatwave for the rest of the year?

The rainy day is here , its meant to be spent, be it on expansion, paying suppliers or daily over heads .

 

[ADW]

, you really are missing the point , the loans are to keep you trading , ie spend the money not hoard it , and as I said before , it doesnt matter if recipients spend it wisley or not ,so long as they spend it.

It doesn't matter if you spend it wisely or not?! And that attitude is why there will be many not caring if they pay it back. It is real money. Some are treating it like Monopoly money is the problem. Smaller companies with few or no employees will be easy to walk away from leaving the debt behind, yes a little harder the larger the company but still......

 

[Ian J]

Get the money out there in a scattergun fashion to the base of the economy. This is money created out of thin air by the banks as debt in the traditional manner.

If three-quarters of the money flows back over 6 years that's a result. The government picks up the tab for the other 25%. Meanwhile 100% of the money has been flowing through the economy changing hands multiple times to the benefit of everyone, not least the Treasury.

Effectively what it means is that the taxpayer picks up the tab

 

[Clinton]

It's classic Keynesian economics. What an irony that it took a Tory government in crisis to return to common sense after 40 years of Thatcherite neo-liberalism

You, too, are making this excuse for the assh*les?

Re. classic Keynesian economics - I already touched on this. If this was intended as helicopter money it would have come much earlier. It didn't. The government launched this only after they found one type of commercial entity wasn't eligible for CBILS etc.

The question is not whether or not it will have the Keynesian effect, it's the government's intention. The government intend this as a loan to be paid back. Anyone borrowing it should be borrowing it with that intent.

It seems some here do not see it as that. They see it as a grant that the government is too timid to call a grant. You're simply being an apologist for the assh*les.

Well f You if you are suggesting I dont intend paying it back...

Given the kind of comment you made below, I am very clear about the category into which you fall:

and as I said before , it doesnt matter if recipients spend it wisley or not ,so long as they spend it.