Harbour Club: any views or opinons

[Paul X]

Hello all,
I was looking for a new business to invest in, and as I was googling I came across a blurb for the above business.
They offer training to provide services to businesses that are "distressed", in order to turn them around, re-jiggle their set-up to make them a bit more buoyant.
They don't seem to be offered on franchise sites, but their set-up appeals to me.
Does anyone have any insights or experiences of these people?

I can't seem to find any reviews of them anywhere. They recently held a 3-day seminar in London.
(just as a background, I am already working as a freelance software developer, and am looking for additional skills to expand my repertoire.)
The only thing that fussed me was the long lead-times to getting any income. Also, the fact the businesses to be approached would be distressed. Also that Harbour Club seem to have so few reviews anywhere.

thank you for your consideration.

 

[The Byre]

They seem come to you courtesy of messers Dewie, Cheetem & Howe.

The website lists a company as being the latest 'turnaround' object - yet the main protagonist is not listed anywhere as a person of significant influence or as a director. I have looked at a couple of others from the past and the same thing applies. He is a ghost!

 

[Mark T Jones]

I strongly suspect it’s lots of hype and bluster, much like these ‘how to become a property millionaire’ schemes.

reality. The type of skills they are offering take time and experience to build.

Most of their supposed case studies use singular stats in a fairly meaningless manner

if it’s cheapish, could be an interesting punt. But don’t expect and miracles!

 

[Paul X]

Thanks for replies so far.
As per Mark T Jones reply about case studies, their case studies seem to be from around 10 years ago. Nothing recent.

 

[Mr D]

Hello all,
I was looking for a new business to invest in, and as I was googling I came across a blurb for the above business.
They offer training to provide services to businesses that are "distressed", in order to turn them around, re-jiggle their set-up to make them a bit more buoyant.
They don't seem to be offered on franchise sites, but their set-up appeals to me.
Does anyone have any insights or experiences of these people?

I can't seem to find any reviews of them anywhere. They recently held a 3-day seminar in London.
(just as a background, I am already working as a freelance software developer, and am looking for additional skills to expand my repertoire.)
The only thing that fussed me was the long lead-times to getting any income. Also, the fact the businesses to be approached would be distressed. Also that Harbour Club seem to have so few reviews anywhere.

thank you for your consideration.

Long lead-times to getting any income? And of course its someone else deciding, what, if any, income should be got.
Unless getting at least 51% of shares and being a director then may be worth avoiding investing in a business.
Or else stick your money into stock market.

 

[Paul X]

@The Byre: re: Dewie, Cheetham and Howe:
that was a reference I have never come across! Had to google that!

 

[Clinton]

I know Jeremy Harbour, owner of the Harbour Club. He was the original proponent (in the UK) of the whole nonsense of buying a business without using your own money! This time next year you'll be a millionaire.

Jemery was followed by Carl Allen and various others all running courses telling you how you can become rich without having any money to invest.

The latest is Jonathan Jay & his Dealmakers' Academy. He goes one better and says he'll teach you how to buy, for just £1, a profitable, established business (not a distressed one).

I know all of the above. and more, and have met most of them in person. Many are smart and savvy operators, but full of BS. That doesn't seem to stop a million people treating them like gurus and following their every word.

Oh, there are also plonkers like Moran Pober teaching the same BS (a guy who attended Jeremy Harbour's course a few years ago and figured there's more money running these courses than in implementing the BS they teach).

If you've had the good sense to follow me in LinkedIn you'd have seen my numerous posts over the years calling these people out.

Here's something you may want to watch before you go for one of the free (or low cost) introductory events by any of the characters above.

 

[The Byre]

I know all of the above. and more, and have met most of them in person. Many are smart and savvy operators, but full of BS. That doesn't seem to stop a million people treating them like gurus and following their every word.

A quick question - maybe you know the answer @Cinton -

It is what I didn't find that is interesting.

I looked at three companies that Harbour claims to have 'turned around' and his name appears precisely (counting carefully from left to right) nowhere. He owns nothing, is not a director and there is no connection with any company with his name on it anywhere that is of any substance. There would appear to be a big collection of failed companies (dormant, struck-off, etc.) but nothing of substance.

On his website, he mentions very proudly MBH Corporation PLC but I could find no connection whatsoever to Harbour, neither as a director, a former director or at any time his having been a person 'of significant interest'. The chairman's report for 2018 seems to indicate similar figures to the ones quoted by JH but the layout is amateurish, to say the least and once again, of comrade JH - no mention.

I can attach JH to only two companies that are still active and they are Popular Palma Properties Spv Limited (net assets -3k, too small to register TO) and Grandose Limited (dormant).

BUT

One thing I did find was an indication that JH seems to have started believing his own hype. The only time JH seems to have run anything larger than a whelk stall was with the launch of 'The Marketing Group' in Singapore.

Mumberella Asia: "it quickly began to unravel, with previously-announced acquisitions, including a deal for three other Australian agencies, collapsing along with the share price. It led to question marks about management ethics and claims the growth strategy was more smoke and mirrors than an attempt at genuine sustainable expansion."

Full article here - https://www.mumbrella.asia/2017/09/...d-nasdaq-past-comes-back-haunt-agency-network

The adult CEO that took over to pick up the pieces, Adam Graham, stated - "It’s very important when running a public company to under promise and over deliver and I think my predecessors got very excited. They are very ambitious and optimistic people and they haven’t run a public company before. As such perhaps expectations were not managed as best they could.”

Which is a nice way of saying that JH didn't have a clue and didn't really know what he was doing.

So I suppose my question would be, have I missed something? I have been deliberately specific in what I have found in just a few minutes and I am making no accusations of misrepresentation of the facts by JH or anyone else, but the 'icky' feeling of 'smoke and mirrors' as is unequivocally directed at JH in that article really is very pronounced.

 

[Clinton]

Jeremy is a smart guy and does know a lot about business. So, respect to him for that. Some of the stuff he teaches is stuff you can't learn in an MBA course ie. there is some useful knowledge to be gained there. His course is a notch better than the others.

It is still not something I recommend. And don't be surprised if you come away from any of these courses all excited about buying a business, and discover that

- it is a lot more difficult to find suitable opportunities than you think
- sellers don't like giving credit (seller's note / deferred payments)
- firms you do find won't generally have enough assets against which you can borrow
- finance companies aren't a pushover, they won't finance just any old crap
- owners of small businesses smoke a lot of weed before talking price / value
- lawyers & accountants generally don't work on contingency (ie pay me if the deal goes ahead!) or on deferred terms (pay me over the next three years)

I've seen a lot of the course materials that these "gurus" hand out. I'm not going to comment further in this thread about individuals in this game and/or their reputations except to say they tend to be personable chaps, friendly, charming, a good laugh, great company.

Just don't give them any money

 

[The Byre]

Jeremy is a smart guy and does know a lot about business.

That article and the damning statement by his successor at TMG would suggest otherwise.

I obviously do not know the man and TBH I think I'll keep it that way - but I am reminded of the words of record producer Mickie Most (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mickie_Most) when his method of getting hits was criticised in public by some A&R Wollah from EMI.

"Oh yer? Tell me, if you know so much, where's your Lear Jet. Mine's parked at City Airport, but where's yours?"

 

[Paul X]

Thanks for all the insights.
I have recently come across Mike Winnet; he's very funny, and deconstructs those seminars brutally.

I guess I need to look elsewhere for new business ventures.
Have been looking at the "franchise" thread here, to see what I could get into.

 

[Clinton]

Thanks for all the insights.
I have recently come across Mike Winnet; he's very funny, and deconstructs those seminars brutally.

Did you discover him via the video I posted earlier by any chance?

It's not easy finding a business to buy, it's incredibly difficult. And that's even if you're paying for outside assistance!

 

[Paul X]

Did you discover him via the video I posted earlier by any chance?

It's not easy finding a business to buy, it's incredibly difficult. And that's even if you're paying for outside assistance!

I saw that video a couple of weeks ago. He's also done a podcast on selling/salesmanship, one on those property millionaire types as well.
Really liked his "by now / BUY NOW" deconstruct on the NLP-ing of seminar sellers:
And also, that all seminar product prices end in a "7".
Very funny takedowns on those kinds of things.

 

[Sak07]

The Harbour Club teaches M&A tactics and covers a range of strategies for acquiring, fixing and selling distressed and indeed high quality solvent businesses. I have attended a couple of Jeremy Harbour's case study days in 2009 - he use to run a one day case study course which I attended in London a couple of times and found it very insightful. I do believe he is the real deal - but based solely on gut feeling, I do not know for a fact. He is a very smart guy and doing some really interesting stuff that no one else is talking about. Ultimately my thoughts are that it isn't if he is a con or not but more can someone replicate the success he has had. I am planning on attending his Harbour club programme next year and happy to share my thoughts post that.

There are a few people in this area I am nervous of - Carl Allen, didn't like his stuff and was unsuccessful in getting a refund (his money back back gurantee is water tight in his favour). His training product is poor - the rolodex of contacts he gives is just a google search result of asset financing companies and what he won't tell you is known of them will lend without a personal gurantee. Would not recommend his ninja acquisition training one little bit. Haven't met Jonathan Jay but seems like a snake oil salesman to me. Moran Pober similar.

Anyone done The Harbour Club and have any feedback on how they found it ?

 

[The Byre]

People - there just is no brass ring, so there's no point in trying to reach for one!

Instead of scouring the Interweb, looking for that magic get-rich-quick scheme, I suggest getting some work done!

 

[Clinton]

Ultimately my thoughts are that it isn't if he is a con or not but more can someone replicate the success he has had...

Ah, that's where it all starts to fall apart.

Hundreds of people attend these courses. I suspect the large majority of them didn't end up making a single acquisition. And bear in mind I end up getting contacted by a lot of plonkers looking to buy a profitable business with no money down. They get short shrift from me... and probably everywhere else (except other sellers of courses who figure that they are mugs who'll buy anything).

I suppose like all sellers of Get Rich Quick schemes, these gurus will blame the poor results on these pupils not following the plan / not working hard enough.

I am planning on attending his Harbour club programme next year and happy to share my thoughts post that.

Go attend this course and come back and tell us about it. Actually, no don't. Use the tactics you've learnt to buy some businesses and then come back and tell us about it.

 

[Mark T Jones]

The Harbour Club teaches M&A tactics and covers a range of strategies for acquiring, fixing and selling distressed and indeed high quality solvent businesses. I have attended a couple of Jeremy Harbour's case study days in 2009 - he use to run a one day case study course which I attended in London a couple of times and found it very insightful. I do believe he is the real deal - but based solely on gut feeling, I do not know for a fact. He is a very smart guy and doing some really interesting stuff that no one else is talking about. Ultimately my thoughts are that it isn't if he is a con or not but more can someone replicate the success he has had. I am planning on attending his Harbour club programme next year and happy to share my thoughts post that.

There are a few people in this area I am nervous of - Carl Allen, didn't like his stuff and was unsuccessful in getting a refund (his money back back gurantee is water tight in his favour). His training product is poor - the rolodex of contacts he gives is just a google search result of asset financing companies and what he won't tell you is known of them will lend without a personal gurantee. Would not recommend his ninja acquisition training one little bit. Haven't met Jonathan Jay but seems like a snake oil salesman to me. Moran Pober similar.

Anyone done The Harbour Club and have any feedback on how they found it ?

Why would you expect someone to lend you money to take a punt on a business without you supporting it?

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

Hundreds of people attend these courses. I suspect the large majority of them didn't end up making a single acquisition. And bear in mind I end up getting contacted by a lot of plonkers looking to buy a profitable business with no money down. They get short shrift from me... and probably everywhere else (except other sellers of courses who figure that they are mugs who'll buy anything).

I suppose like all sellers of Get Rich Quick schemes, these gurus will blame the poor results on these pupils not following the plan / not working hard enough.

Interesting that.
I know of a guy who trains people about investing in property. By all accounts he is incredibly successful in doing so (I've seen his accounts), but from what I've heard he doesn't own a single brick of property.

I think I would always be pretty sceptical when people push these training courses - there's obviously more money to be made in selling the dream to pie-eyed newbies than there is in actually doing the thing...

 

[Clinton]

Why would you expect someone to lend you money to take a punt on a business without you supporting it?

Oh, they'll lend you money. The seller himself will lend you the entire price you're paying to buy his business! Why? Because some business owners are so desperate to get out, to get their freedom, that they'll grasp any straw. Apparently.

That's why these courses teach you to probe for seller motivation. Find out what he's really after (because, apparently, "it's not always about the money").

So, if the owners are after bragging rights - "I sold my business for £1M" - then give them bragging rights in the form of a deal structure that has a headline price of £1M but designed such that the vendors never actually gets any money out of the deal (a deal where, for example, the entire price is an earn out based on some completely unrealistic earnings projection).

Or play them like a fiddle. Here's one of the plans:
- Offer full asking price (subject to DD)
- Get the vendor more and more excited about this big payday coming up
- Encourage him to make plans, book a cruise of a lifetime etc etc.
- Drag the transaction out and keep dragging it out
- He'll take his eye off the ball and earnings will suffer (and you can help distract him by asking a million DD questions)
- Use the tactics in the book to keep chipping away at the price and moving more and more of it away from cash and towards deferred payments / earn out
- The performance will keep dropping.
- Rinse and repeat.

Eventually the business will be in the doldrums and he'll be fed up and you'll be the only buyer around willing to proceed with a transaction. And it'll be on your terms

Another plan involves manipulating the owner into a position where you can blackmail him / hold him to ransom.

And then there's the using of the business's assets to raise the necessary finance - pawn the stock, factor the debtors, screw some suppliers. What you then have is a business you acquired for £1 but a business that can't service the debt and with whom no supplier wants to have any dealings.

For the record, some businesses are sold for a song. Rover was sold for £10. But these tend to be distressed businesses. Further, the buyers need to be people of very serious business standing and with substantial assets behind them. Why else would banks relax their covenants and landlords offer rent holidays to assist the business get back on its feet?

 

[AllUpHere]

Interesting that.
I know of a guy who trains people about investing in property. By all accounts he is incredibly successful in doing so (I've seen his accounts), but from what I've heard he doesn't own a single brick of property.

I think I would always be pretty sceptical when people push these training courses - there's obviously more money to be made in selling the dream to pie-eyed newbies than there is in actually doing the thing...

Not altogether a stupid plan though is it. I could teach people how to set themselves up as marketing consultants and easily earn 6 figures. It wouldn't actually take long to teach them most of what they need to know. I'll hire some swanky hotel, charge a couple of hundred people 10 grand a go, and Bob's your Uncle.
After I've done that for a while I'll set up a training academy to teach people how to teach people to become marketing consultants.
Rinse and repeat, jobs a goodun.

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

Not altogether a stupid plan though is it. I could teach people how to set themselves up as marketing consultants and easily earn 6 figures. It wouldn't actually take long to teach them most of what they need to know. I'll hire some swanky hotel, charge a couple of hundred people 10 grand a go, and Bob's your Uncle.
After I've done that for a while I'll set up a training academy to teach people how to teach people to become marketing consultants.
Rinse and repeat, jobs a goodun.

Quite right! After seeing said accounts I'm racking my brains about what I could run training courses on...

 

[Mark T Jones]

Oh, they'll lend you money. The seller himself will lend you the entire price you're paying to buy his business! Why? Because some business owners are so desperate to get out, to get their freedom, that they'll grasp any straw. Apparently.

That's why these courses teach you to probe for seller motivation. Find out what he's really after (because, apparently, "it's not always about the money").

So, if the owners are after bragging rights - "I sold my business for £1M" - then give them bragging rights in the form of a deal structure that has a headline price of £1M but designed such that the vendors never actually gets any money out of the deal (a deal where, for example, the entire price is an earn out based on some completely unrealistic earnings projection).

Or play them like a fiddle. Here's one of the plans:
- Offer full asking price (subject to DD)
- Get the vendor more and more excited about this big payday coming up
- Encourage him to make plans, book a cruise of a lifetime etc etc.
- Drag the transaction out and keep dragging it out
- He'll take his eye off the ball and earnings will suffer (and you can help distract him by asking a million DD questions)
- Use the tactics in the book to keep chipping away at the price and moving more and more of it away from cash and towards deferred payments / earn out
- The performance will keep dropping.
- Rinse and repeat.

Eventually the business will be in the doldrums and he'll be fed up and you'll be the only buyer around willing to proceed with a transaction. And it'll be on your terms

Another plan involves manipulating the owner into a position where you can blackmail him / hold him to ransom.

And then there's the using of the business's assets to raise the necessary finance - pawn the stock, factor the debtors, screw some suppliers. What you then have is a business you acquired for £1 but a business that can't service the debt and with whom no supplier wants to have any dealings.

For the record, some businesses are sold for a song. Rover was sold for £10. But these tend to be distressed businesses. Further, the buyers need to be people of very serious business standing and with substantial assets behind them. Why else would banks relax their covenants and landlords offer rent holidays to assist the business get back on its feet?

Sounds like a fun scam. I might have a go at it.

Though, the context of my post was referring to finance companies taking PGs. Which they would be insane not to.

 

[billybob99]

Oh, there are also plonkers like Moran Pober teaching the same BS (a guy who attended Jeremy Harbour's course a few years ago and figured there's more money running these courses than in implementing the BS they teach).

Pretty much like Forex then

More money in education and teaching others than trading yourself.

 

[Sak07]

Mark Jones: PG's almost certainly would be required for borrowing against the assets agreed. The LBO model isn't one I can see being terribly successful at the SME level - the number of companies that can sustain cash flows to pay off new debt & be worth the hassle & risk (PG) are absolutely tiny.

Clinton: Thanks for your thoughts. I do believe that a small % of people with the knowledge actually have the where with all to be able to execute and to execute in a manner where are parties are happy. I have done 2 deals previously: one 100% cash and one 75% earn out. The latter was very small, the owner could not sell (had tried for many years): he wanted 40k for the business, on a earn out basis he has made 45k (over 5 years) with a final payment to come next year. The option for this guy would be closing down with nothing, at least through the deal he has had a half decent serious of payments (granted he has taken risk that I didn't run the thing into the ground). Of course we would all like 100% but small companies have a habit of going bust, are incredibly risky (I haven't found any bodies yet) & the pool of cash only buyers is fairly small. I am no expert at all just my thoughts.

 

[Clinton]

I have done 2 deals previously: one 100% cash and one 75% earn out. The latter was very small, the owner could not sell (had tried for many years)

When owners are unable to sell, there's a reason. It's usually because it's not an attractive business, it's making a loss, it's on the decline, it's highly reliant on one person, whatever.

And, like you found, you can do deals with them that involve a large (or 100%) component of deferred payment (or even earnout) i.e. your £1 deals.

But that's not what the sellers of these courses pitch. They don't claim to tell you how to buy distressed businesses for a pound.

Nah, that isn't a catchy enough line.

So they claim that if you sign up for their course they'll teach you how to buy solid, profitable, established businesses for a pound.

I'm subscribed to the email newsletters of all these people and the sheer unadulterated bullsh*t some of them pump out on a regular basis is simply amazing. JH is a bit on the milder side and he does disclose that some of it is about buying distressed businesses.

But below is an extract from Jonathan Jay. Even if you have no money to invest, this is what he'll show you:

I'd like to share with you all my business buying secrets so you can buy 6 businesses within the next 12 to 18 months. 6 businesses that each pay you a £10,000 monthly consulting fee.

Once you have 6 businesses in your portfolio, I'd like to show you how to sell a business a year and acquire a business a year. This keeps 6 businesses in your portfolio and gives you a 7-figure payday ever year.

So, you can start with nothing and be earning 6 x £10,000 per month pretty soon. £720K a year by next year this time in consulting fees, plus the profit you'll make from selling businesses.

This time next year, Rodney, you'll be a millionaire. You'd be a plonker to not pay this guru a few grand for his "business buying secrets".

 

[Sak07]

Clinton: Thanks. Agree on those points re distressed businesses, though isn't the big issue that there is not a huge number of cash rich buyers looking to buy unsexy (engineering, HVAC, manufacturing) SME's ? As someone who may be selling at some point in the near future it seems incredibly difficult. And as a buyer - I fully understand the risks, it's a very tricky market and probably not helped by the calibre of business brokers - though I suspect you have more insight on this than me ?

Re Jonathan Jay, crickey. The bloke doesn't sit right with me, absolutely full of it. Anyone believing this deserves to be ripped off.

 

[The Byre]

More money in education and teaching others than trading yourself.

If that were true then these 'Get Rich Quick!' merchants would be multimillionaires!

But when you look closely at them, the house is either on a mortgage or rented, the flash cars are leased and the companies they claim to have either owned or 'turned around' don't seem to have had anything to do with them - ever!

I am always reminded of Micky Most's words to some idiot from EMI telling people how to succeed in music - "If you know so much, where's your Lear Jet? Mine's at City Airport, but where's your's?"

 

[Clinton]

, though isn't the big issue that there is not a huge number of cash rich buyers looking to buy unsexy (engineering, HVAC, manufacturing) SME's ?

Er, I don't know who you've been talking to but there is no shortage of well funded buyers.

And there is nothing sexy or unsexy. If it's a profitable business with a good management team and good prospects, it doesn't matter what sector it's in!

But, yes, sellers of these courses would like you to believe that there are some "unsexy" sectors and some amazing deals available there. Being the geniuses that they are, they have spotted the big profit in all those sectors that the (smart) investors have missed!

...it's a very tricky market and probably not helped by the calibre of business brokers - though I suspect you have more insight on this than me ?

The "calibre" of business broker depends on the size of the business. A typical £5m deal will be led by a corporate finance firm charging £40K in advance fees and who need to earn a total of £200K to £300K on the deal.

If you're selling a hair dressing salon for £50K, even a 10% commission of £5K is a drop in the ocean for the 500 or so hours one would need to spend on the job. Yes, it takes that many hours, or more, if doing a proper job. No qualified, clued up, experienced individual is going to work for £10 an hour in this industry. Heck, I wouldn't work for even £100 an hour! What type of broker do you expect on a 5% commission if the business is only worth a couple of hundred grand? You usually get this type.

But when you look closely at them, the house is either on a mortgage or rented, the flash cars are leased ...

Actually, some of them have made a ton of money from these courses. I've seen their balance sheets at Companies House.

 

[Sak07]

Er, I don't know who you've been talking to but there is no shortage of well funded buyers.

And there is nothing sexy or unsexy. If it's a profitable business with a good management team and good prospects, it doesn't matter what

Errr - so the large % of businesses that have no management team in place, exist in a declining sector and struggle to make a profit through the cycle should what !? Re who am I talking too - based on recent experience (9 years of looking). If you can shoot me your contact details I know one one guy who is desperately looking for cash rich buyers

 

[Mark T Jones]

Re Jonathan Jay, crickey. The bloke doesn't sit right with me, absolutely full of it. Anyone believing this deserves to be ripped off.

Harsh; but partly true.

Pretty much every scam relies on a mixture of greed and laziness - just lead with cheap, easy or quick (any 2 will do)

 

[Clinton]

Errr - so the large % of businesses that have no management team in place, exist in a declining sector and struggle to make a profit through the cycle should what !?

They should be put to sleep (and sooner rather than later).

If you can shoot me your contact details I know one one guy who is desperately looking for cash rich buyers

I'll pass, thanks. If he's the right type of client for me he'll find me the same way that other clients find me (and he'll get the same automated replies if his business is too small or not an attractive enough business for me to take on).

Sure, everybody wants cash rich buyers. But they need to have a worthy business first! If they have a good enough business then they need to hire the right type of expertise to represent their business... and pay well for that expertise.

Well funded buyers want to deal with the professionals, they don't want to deal with every Tom, D*ck and Harry business owner who thinks their crap business is worth a million quid.

In fact, they go to great lengths to avoid dealing directly with vendors of small businesses (most of whom have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to valuing businesses and assessing / quantifying risk!) Owners of businesses are an absolute nightmare to deal with in these scenarios. They talk their business up, play down the extent of the business's reliance on them, have unrealistic price expectations, they are so much hassle! They have no idea what they're doing. They don't have the first clue about how to play the game.

And this applies no matter how good they are at running their own business or how many years of experience they have in business.

If the business is big enough to afford a proper M&A or corporate finance firm to represent them, they'll get access to all those well funded buyers.

I know many well funded buyers. I wouldn't dream of introducing them to a business owner who isn't smart enough or rich enough to afford proper representation!

 

[The Byre]

isn't the big issue that there is not a huge number of cash rich buyers looking to buy unsexy (engineering, HVAC, manufacturing) SME's ?

Quite the opposite - right now money is cheap and in growing over-supply and there is a burning need to park it somewhere that creates value over the long term.

Also, sexy isn't sexy. Engineering, food, building materials, medical supplies - companies that make stuff people actually need and want to buy. Now those are 'sexy'.

Yet another idiotic internet portal site is not sexy. In fact, that sort of hot-air balloon usually is not anything! Just hot air!

 

[Sak07]

Clinton : I understand - all talk....

Brye: Yep money is cheap for unicorn Tech ideas that can wrap institutional money up it promises and stories - but I dont see it trickling down to small SME's not in the UK anyway. Happy to pointed in the right direction though, as mentioned very much a vested interests on both sides here. So in the absence of anything tangible - it's easy to see how the BS pedalling trainers can convince so many. The odd one may even be doing it rather successfully.

 

[Clinton]

Clinton : I understand - all talk....

LOL, yeah, what do I know

It's amazing how dumb some business owners can be after spending decades in business. Like those expecting to get a list of names of funded buyers!

How can people build successful businesses when they are so thick? Actually, no, saying that, the reason why I don't deal with the smaller businesses is because I've found that owners of larger businesses tend to have a better appreciation of how much they don't know. And they are willing to pay for proper advice.

but I dont see it trickling down to small SME's not in the UK anyway.

There's plenty of trickle down happening. There is demand at all levels. If you aren't seeing the money you need to consider whether you have a business worth acquiring

 

[The Byre]

I dont see it trickling down to small SME's not in the UK anyway.

If a small company runs without the buyer having to work in it for for it, then there is plenty of money - but companies like that are rare. Most are just jobs by another name.

Yep money is cheap for unicorn Tech ideas that can wrap institutional money up it promises and stories

That game is rapidly coming to an end - and Unicorn Tech that is just another online BS idea is a game that is overplayed. Idiotic schemes like WeWork and similar are teaching all but the most foolish a lesson.

But there is still a great deal of high-roller gambling going on, esp. around California and Silly-Con Valley as too much money chases investments in dead-beat companies, driven by pure metrics and algorithms and without any true understanding of the technologies or the markets.

 

[Sak07]

Clinton: Looking forward to your training programme: "Sell your business for 100% cash" - upsell access to your "registered all cash buyers" list. You'd be fighting them off - you can rant about "short shrift with me" for anyone not able to prove £4m in liquid cash in the bank...

Brye: Completely agree - jobs by another name. And there are many of them - worse those running them often neglected the pension contributions with the goal of selling price being my pension. They realise too late, getting ripped off to part with several thousand £ upfront by a broker (who last week was a foxtons agent) and the business goes several years with zero interest till the owner shutters it. Meanwhile experts are banging about on "plonkers" - well this plonked is trying to find solutions that benefit all. Short shrift with me - yep...likewise

 

[Clinton]

Clinton: Looking forward to your training programme: "Sell your business for 100% cash" - upsell access to your "registered all cash buyers" list.

You just don't get it, do you? Professional buyers, properly funded buyers (not to mention PE firms etc) don't want to deal directly with the likes of you.

They want to deal with the pros who can give them the right data, in the format they need, to assess the opportunity. They don't want the kind of bullsh*t sales brochures that business owners put together themselves about how fantastic the business is, what great prospects it has etc. etc. (And I explain here why those brochures are rubbish)

So form whatever opinion you want about whether I can or can't introduce you to funded buyers. The issue remains that I won't. I have a reputation in the industry, a huge reputation, and I'm not going to risk that by introducing any old numpty to funded buyers ...quite simply because that's not how it works.

And you do come across as a numpty.

Take my word for it or not, I don't care, but the problem in the market is a shortage of quality businesses; there is no shortage of well funded buyers.

If you're not finding these funded buyers then you don't have a solid business with a proper teaser followed by a proper information memorandum presented by a firm that knows what it's doing. Tip: Give up on selling and go work on making your business worth acquiring!

 

[Sak07]

Clinton: Thanks for the free advice - wasn't really what was asked but you clearly wanted to demonstrate your "knowledge" so there you go. Re Numpty, lovely - I was actually very polite till you starting talking down to me. Cheers, best of luck.

 

[@unitygroup]

Hello all,
I was looking for a new business to invest in, and as I was googling I came across a blurb for the above business.
They offer training to provide services to businesses that are "distressed", in order to turn them around, re-jiggle their set-up to make them a bit more buoyant.
They don't seem to be offered on franchise sites, but their set-up appeals to me.
Does anyone have any insights or experiences of these people?

I can't seem to find any reviews of them anywhere. They recently held a 3-day seminar in London.
(just as a background, I am already working as a freelance software developer, and am looking for additional skills to expand my repertoire.)
The only thing that fussed me was the long lead-times to getting any income. Also, the fact the businesses to be approached would be distressed. Also that Harbour Club seem to have so few reviews anywhere.

thank you for your consideration.

Hi Paul,

This is Jeremy Harbour from the Harbour Club.

We often seem to get pegged as focussing on distressed deals, but actually that is just one structure (we use 12 different ones). Our real focus is on M&A of owner managed businesses typically sub 10m annual profits without needing capital or borrowing from the bank. So these are creative solutions to M&A. It is not for everyone, it is a sophisticated strategy and you learn it from doing it. So what we do with the harbour club is we create a community of deal makers with our own social platform (APP), so you do a three day intensive bootcamp and then you can drop into a group within the community that suits your target or geography and work together with people to get your first deal done.

We don't follow the usual seminar formula, so its one price no upsells no next thing you have to buy just all up one price. If you see stuff for a few hundred quid by any training organisation it is normally just an opportunity for them to pitch you. We are deal makers, its all we do all day long, I do a handful of Harbour Club seminars each year and thats it, I share warts and all what worked and what went horribly wrong and as a result the happy side effect is I get quite a few joint venture opportunities. in fact my biggest deal this year (2019 at time of writing) came trough the community, hat was an engineering company doing 92m in revenue and 10.8m of profit (EBIT), and that worked really well for both parties as they didn't have the confidence to go after that deal, but had created a good relationship with the decision maker. So it is a very virtuous circle.

Follow me on Linked in or ask Jon at Harbour Club office for reviews and examples we have hundreds since 2009 !

 

[@unitygroup]

They seem come to you courtesy of messers Dewie, Cheetem & Howe.

The website lists a company as being the latest 'turnaround' object - yet the main protagonist is not listed anywhere as a person of significant influence or as a director. I have looked at a couple of others from the past and the same thing applies. He is a ghost!

Hi Main protagonist here.

I live in Singapore we do deals in UK, US, Canada, NZ, Australia, Singapore and a few other places. They are completed by Unity group or Five5ifive Both of which I own and am sole director (Singapore companies) I have been doing deal for over 20 years, and when you look on companies house you dont see the whole picture you can see who is now PSC or current directors (plus past appointments) I am only ever a shareholder and generally for as short a time as possible. Calling me a ghost is also pretty amusing... try google? you can find books I have written, companies taken public, I do stick out a little bit in the industry.

its like saying 'Jeff Bezos?' nah I looked on companies house in the UK he's a no one.