Recommended accounting software for a new limited company?

D

Deleted member 315707

I use Quickbooks desktop + a one off purchase of Transaction Pro Importer (which cost me about £120) ...it covers all my bases. Subscriptions truly are the spawn of Satan.

Everyone is different, I'm sure it works for you. As I've said a couple of times now, it's not about the cost, it's about the value for many people. To write off cloud software because it's a subscription is just the opposite of opposing your desktop software for having to pay £120 in one lump.

Personally I loath installing software, manually updating stuff, inputing transactions and generally wasting time on admin. I'd rather have my time back, know that my businesses are ready for MTD and help advise other clients to be in the same position.
 
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I can suggest following software to be used
  • FreshBooks helps users address recurring invoices and subscription easily. It supports online payment collection via credit cards, PayPal and Google Checkout.
  • FreeAgent is a feature-rich, cloud-hosted accounting platform intended to help small businesses and freelancers.
  • Zoho Books is a smart accounting solution designed to manage small businesses’ cash flow and finances. It is known for its ease-of-use, helping users make intelligent business decisions.
From above three I used and recommend Zoho books.
 
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I must say that is some pretty poor advice been dished out by cloud software haters who clearly have not used the software in any depth. Making comments that anyone who recommends cloud should be taking out and shot is disrespectful and the comments should be treat with the contempt they deserve,

A product like Xero will give you so much more than simple easy access. It is connected, links to your bank account via bank feeds, it can link to other apps like PayPal, amazon go cordless etc. it will automate 80% of the bookkeeping process giving you the time to focus on developing the business.

You should choose a system that will not just work for you now, but in the future the will grow with you.

Desktop software is out of date and if you are choosing something now for the future desktop software is not it as its already out of date, does not really work with bank feeds and other time saving add ons, and still largely relies on manual data entry which takes time which is what we are all short of.

I would also worry about starting with something that was free as it is unikely to be supported very well and may disappear one day leaving you in the lurch.

If your business cannot afford £10 per month to keep your finances in good order without spending all your time on them you maybe need to think if you have got a business
 
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Pish_Pash

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Feb 1, 2013
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.If your business cannot afford £10 per month to keep your finances in good order without spending all your time on them you maybe need to think if you have got a business

For Xero, it's £27.50 a month if you need multiple currencies (& nowadays, certainly any online retailer worth his salt ought to need multiple currencies).

Oh wait, if I sign up to day I get 30% off .....yay! Oh bugger, even though it seems like Im going to get 30% off for life (or at least a year), it turns out it's only for four months ...after that, I'm fully invested & they can muller me....should I trust trust a company with murky offer such as this?

You see this is why (more than anything) I hold out from migrating to Saas ....you're basically hopping into bed & having a love child with them ......& they're going to keep coming right at you for ever increasing maintenance knowing it's a complete headache to walk away.
 
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As an on line trader they tend to deal with high volumes of low value transactions, so the benefits of automation should be obvious. For e commerce to be successful it needs to have scale, which needs to be controlled. as they grow they will have further needs like inventory management and fulfilment type software all which will work with Xero. I have clients who can fulfil 1000 items per day from the own site, they do this because they built proper systems to allow the business to grow. They didn't do it using free or cheap software.

Also the headache to move is a myth put around by people who don't know. Movemybooks is a free service which converts your data onto that of other platforms in about 10 minutes so no big head aches at all.

Even at £27.50 the time costs it saves are huge and will be one of the smallest overheads in your business compared to the money you will spend on amazon, ebay and paypal fee, PPC etc.

Perhaps he should consider delivering all his items on a peddle bike to avoid the cost of the postage.
 
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DontAsk

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Desktop software is out of date and if you are choosing something now for the future desktop software is not it as its already out of date, does not really work with bank feeds and other time saving add ons, and still largely relies on manual data entry which takes time which is what we are all short of.

Give it time. I lived and worked through the "thin client" revolution. Then PC became so cheap that everything went back to the desktop.

What goes around comes around, again and again :)
 
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D

Deleted member 315707

Give it time. I lived and worked through the "thin client" revolution. Then PC became so cheap that everything went back to the desktop.

What goes around comes around, again and again :)

That's a bit like saying the internet won't take off.. people won't buy music subscriptions... people like DVDs, streaming will never take off.. Cloud Accounting is just another software tool which has been moved to the cloud which makes a lot, maybe most, businesses more efficient.
 
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DavidWH

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I think it will come around when people realise they're being fleeced.

Look at Apple, sales on the iPhone are down, perhaps people know it's just full of gimmicks and no real substance, keeping their existing and perfectly functional phone for longer.

I could easily afford to buy new phones, but what I opted to do was buy reconditioned phones for a fraction of the price. Does the same thing.

The cloud will work for some businesses as you say, tradespeople who are out on road going site to site.

Our setup requires a desktop installation of Sage, and their cheapest perpetual offering provides (until April) all the functionality we require.

We pay for Sage Cover to enable the bank feeds, which on checking works out at £14.00 a month (although paid annually). I am happy to pay that, as it saves me an hour or so entering data.

From April Sage then want another £10.00 a month for the MTD addon. An addon I will use once a quarter. £10 a month sounds very reasonable, until you realise it will only get used once a quarter to submit a VAT return, so it's actually £30 per VAT return, compared to the zero we're paying now. So I'll happily pay £20 a year for a bridging software, £5.00 for each return, and it will take 5mins rather than two minutes.

If I took both Sage subscriptions, I be paying £24 a month, for outdated, yet perfectly functional software.

I can get the latest Sage 50c, for £18.00 a month, MTD compliant, bank feeds, and all the updates sage can think of included.

As I've paid my sage cover until September, and I only paid that for the Bankfeeds, sage support have been next to useless when I've had issues, I'll be using a lower cost MTD solution until at least September, where I may switch to 50c, because it will work out cheaper for the same functionality.

However... If you're small business, not VAT registered, with very few transactions, and don't really need the 'cloud', why wouldn't you pay £99 for Sage Accounts Essentials, that will be sufficient for the next few years?
 
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Pish_Pash

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Perhaps he should consider delivering all his items on a peddle bike to avoid the cost of the postage.

You're assuming those using desktop aren't automated?

You speak of all those cool time saving, add-ons (that you pay extra for...therefore it's not £27.50pcm anymore)...I just roll my own (but if I couldnt or won't ...they're available for desktop too).

Sure, cloud offerings are fine for many ...but in the main, they're a wheeze for the software houses - kerching.
 
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Clinton

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    My kids used to get very excited at the toys they got at Christmas.

    Then they grew up.

    I expect the same of all the 'cloud and SaaS solve all the world's problems' evangelists :)

    When it comes to technology I'm way ahead of most people. I've also owned several tech companies. But what I know is not a patch to a friend of mine, Guise Bule. He's written a great piece about this slide into the morass of SaaS: Subscription Psycho.

    His follow up articles to that are also worth reading.
     
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    D

    Deleted member 315707

    I don't know how you reach that conclusion. Clearly it's wrong. They all took off in a big way, but where are CD and DVD sales now? Even vinyl is coming back round in a small way.

    I'm not sure what you mean, my point is a lot of people used to think that they wanted to own something, their software, their DVD, their CD, now for a lot of people they don't.

    Vinyl represents a tiny fraction of the market and for very different reasons. For most people it's a collection, the experience of walking into a specialist shop and selecting music at leisure.

    I struggle to understand why a business wants to own their desktop accounting software, most I have worked with, once they understand the benefits, have never looked back... sure there are always going to be some who can't/won't, but for the most part, people save time and therefore money.
     
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    All of which offer cloud solutions! You have nicely illustrated then point that the cloud accounting market is stagnating.

    I suspect that there is an error in Johnny's post and that rather than 'Xero and QuickBooks aren't rapidly gaining new users' he meant 'Xero and QuickBooks are rapidly gaining new users'

    John
     
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    And Sage? Difficult to mistype "tumbling" for anything meaning the opposite

    I don't believe that was a mistake, I could be wrong but I think Johnny is using Sage as an example of company with, predominately, desktop based rather than cloud software.

    i.e.

    Xero & QB = Cloud = Good
    Sage = Desktop = Bad

    That's the way I read his post but I'm sure he'll be along to confirm...
     
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    D

    Deleted member 315707

    I think maybe I wasn't clear.. Sage, a primarily desktop based business, is failing relatively and yet QuickBooks and Xero, both very much cloud focussed businesses, succeeding for no reason. I.e. there must be a reason why people are flocking to cloud based accounting.. it was a double negative

    Hint it saves time for the vast majority of businesses...
     
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    D

    Deleted member 315707

    I use both Sage (desktop and cloud) and Xero and Xero, for example, saves me no more time than Sage desktop does.

    I have no idea about your business so cannot comment but I have yet to find a business that has not saved time moving to the cloud. There have been numerous studies and not one I've seen has ever said that desktop software is the way forward...
     
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    They don't break out their totals... 400k businesses use Sage 50 Desktop so presumably this is worldwide.

    They muddy the waters somewhat by having a product called Sage 50 in various countries round the world despite them being completely different programs (i.e. what they call sage 50 in the US in not the same as Sage 50 in the UK).

    Across all their Sage 50 'level' programs worldwide, they have a lot more than 400K (which, as Sage Instant is now branded Sage 50 Essentials, will be their UK figure) users.
     
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    D

    Deleted member 315707

    How did simply changing from desktop to cloud save them time?

    There is not one size fits all but top things I have seen are..
    1. No software to install, always up to date
    2. No backing data up
    3. No need to send backup to accountant, realtime advice
    4. Anytime anywhere access for as many staff as you like
    5. Mobile app taking photos of expenses
    6. Easy to use
    7. In product live support
    8. Online direct bank feeds with rules
    9. Automating accounts payable
    10. Auto reconciliation with GoCardless, Stripe, Paypal
     
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    D

    Deleted member 315707

    Across all their Sage 50 'level' programs worldwide, they have a lot more than 400K (which, as Sage Instant is now branded Sage 50 Essentials, will be their UK figure) users.

    I'm quoting their own numbers, they do not specify. To put into perspective where the market is headed. Intuit (a cloud first company) share price doubled, Sage (a desktop first, with a confused cloud offering company) share price flat at best... Down 20% in the last 6 months or so..
     
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    Using Sage 50 as an example as that is the software I'm most familiar with.

    1. Updates every now and again taking no more than a few minutes.
    2. Backups can be automated so no time lost there.
    3. Possible with Sage Drive.
    4. Again, possible with Sage Drive albeit, admittedly, tied to a PC.
    5. Add ons available to do this (as there are with Xero)
    6. I'm not 100% convinced by this albeit, as I've used Sage 50 for 20 years, I can enter things faster than I can with Xero.
    7. 'Live' Help is available although it is a phone call rather than live chat.
    8. Available in Sage.
    9. Available in Sage.
    10. Available in Sage via addons.
     
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    D

    Deleted member 315707

    1. Updates every now and again taking no more than a few minutes.
    No updates required at all, look at all the mania with MTD, with Xero, guess what, you're ready!
    2. Backups can be automated so no time lost there.
    To where? Who is responsible? Could these go missing?
    3. Possible with Sage Drive.
    Unfortunately in practice it's not. Sage Drive rarely works as advertised.
    4. Again, possible with Sage Drive albeit, admittedly, tied to a PC.
    Again, I've worked with many accounting practices who Sage Drive has never been fit for purpose. It's also not live, it's designed to be checked in and checked out, two people can certainly not work on the same copy at the same time in different locations.
    5. Add ons available to do this (as there are with Xero)
    Included with both Xero and QuickBooks Online
    6. I'm not 100% convinced by this albeit, as I've used Sage 50 for 20 years, I can enter things faster than I can with Xero.
    The difference is that most transactions are matched or just coded, QBO and Xero do this en mass using machine learning. This is not available in desktop software.
    7. 'Live' Help is available although it is a phone call rather than live chat.
    Live support cannot see a live version of what's happening without remote desktop into a PC. What is this? The 80's?
    8. Available in Sage.
    Sadly the rules just don't work like Xero's do with both direct and indirect bank feeds. Most accountants and users say it takes longer to use a bank feed in Sage than to manually type!
    9. Available in Sage.
    Not with different personalities for a different tone of voice with different clients.
    10. Available in Sage via addons.
    Unfortunately the way Sage 50cloud connects with GoCardless, Stripe and Paypal means reconciliation again takes longer than doing it manually. With Xero or QuickBooks it's magically happening for you.

    A calculator and quill could probably get you your invoices raised and that's how a lot of people now view Sage.
     
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    Some good points well made, still nothing that, for me at least would make it worth the move and, before you think I'm 'anti cloud' my Payroll is and has been for four years, done in a cloud payroll program.

    I didn't realise that the expenses app was part of Xero, I had thought it was an add on.

    One thing that does happen, all to often on the forums is that Xero, QB or whatever, get recommended with no real idea of what the OPs requirements are and there are, undoubtedly users for whom the current cloud offerings won't work - there was a poster earlier in the thread who uses some industry specific software that links to Sage but not Xero so for him, cloud is simply not an option regardless of any recommendations.

    I've been using Xero for about a year now and have done a lot of work with their API and there are at least two limitations that appear, from the outside at least, to be completely arbitrary:

    1. Xero recommend no more than 1000 invoices per month. Why, with a what I assume is a SQL database at the backend, why have such a limit? I appreciate that it isn't a hard limit but it is one that they document.

    2. The inability to have two contacts with the same name. So, if John Smith from London and John Smith from Newcastle buy from me I have to add a number or some other to their name just to make them unique. The Xero database has a unique ID for each customer anyway so there is no logical reason for this limitation. Changing it appears, from what I've seen, to be one of the most requested features and has been for a long time and yet you still can't do it...

    John
     
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    the numbers quoted above for user numbers are way out of date. At Xerocon this year Xero announced 375k users in the UK with QBO lying second with 335K and reagent with 100k

    Xero has grown numbers 40% in last 12 months

    Cloud has about 20% of the whole business market of 5m small businesses

    With regards time saving the biggest difference is from bank feeds and products like receipt bank, I have clients with restaurants etc who have 500 invoices + per month and used to take hours to input in Sage and only take a fraction of that time using receipt bank (which would not work with desktop in early days but I believe it does now)

    Also I have a lot of commerce jobs who have huge numbers of small transactions and links to amazon, PayPal etc save a lot of time managing all that.

    Also the API access allows you to do a lot of good reporting easily which would have cost a fortune to do if you had to do them in excel but I appreciate not everyone needs good MI
     
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    Haindiary

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    I use Xero Review as the ultimate alternative to QuickBooks. Incredibly comfortable. but in the early stages of the company $ 70 a month is a bit too much. Manages the accounting part, salary, taxes. Generally all. The best solution if you do not want to hire anyone.
     
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