Brexit negotiations

[Mr D]

I can't see how that can help. If we cnnot import any food there won't be any in the food banks.

Hence the term 'briefly'. Known source of food available for free.
And don't diss the supply chain of the food banks, its not your regular supply chain. Impact on it yes, stop it no. I for one would not suggest that churches (of various religions), voluntary groups and shops would stop the donation of food.

 

[Newchodge]

Hence the term 'briefly'. Known source of food available for free.
And don't diss the supply chain of the food banks, its not your regular supply chain. Impact on it yes, stop it no. I for one would not suggest that churches (of various religions), voluntary groups and shops would stop the donation of food.

You are entirely missing the point. There won't be anyh food imported for the donors to donate.

 

[Mr D]

You are entirely missing the point. There won't be anyh food imported for the donors to donate.

And you have no food in the house to donate?
OK.

Others will. Plus stuff the big shops donate through Fareshare that cannot be sold but can still be consumed.

There are people in this country who will share what little they have with those in need. You may choose not to emulate them which is of course your choice. And their choice to do as they please.
Multiple ways of sharing, food bank is just one. Some community centres & religious groups also run a soup kitchen / weekly meal prepared on site or nearby.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

You are entirely missing the point.

That is Mr D's purpose in life. Missing the point.

 

[Mr D]

That is Mr D's purpose in life. Missing the point.

Apparently not.

 

[Cobby]

Apparently not.

Still waiting for you to answer that very simple question to show you are debating here in good faith and not just trolling...

Where, in the question... "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union?"

...does it say:

• ...we must leave the Single Market?
• ...we must leave the Customs Union?
  

 

[Cobby]

Hence the term 'briefly'. Known source of food available for free.
And don't diss the supply chain of the food banks, its not your regular supply chain. Impact on it yes, stop it no. I for one would not suggest that churches (of various religions), voluntary groups and shops would stop the donation of food.

There are expected to be severe food shortages.

The Government themselves are planning a stockpile of non-perishables so that there will be some form of rationing available to prevent people starving. (This whole thing is insane I can't believe we're having to raise this in a debate - how is this reality!?)

People who normally donate food will not have any food for themselves, let alone extra to donate.


Come on, Mr D, I had this conversation with a 14 year old this morning and she grasped it instantly. It's not that complicated.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

The Government themselves are planning a stockpile of non-perishables so that there will be some form of rationing available to prevent people starving

The government already have a vast supply of food in storage. Spam and baked beans anyone?

Th perceived danger is holdups at customs. Another danger is overseas suppliers not granting credit to a country who break their word as Raab is currently threatening.

 

[Mr D]

The government already have a vast supply of food in storage. Spam and baked beans anyone?

Th perceived danger is holdups at customs. Another danger is overseas suppliers not granting credit to a country who break their word as Raab is currently threatening.

You can live on spam and baked beans for a while.
Not the greatest health wise long term but can handle that. Solve the obesity crisis in a month!

 

[Newchodge]

You can live on spam and baked beans for a while.
Not the greatest health wise long term but can handle that. Solve the obesity crisis in a month!

Possibly. BUT WHY, ON EARTH, ARE WE PLANNING TO DO IT?

 

[Mr D]

Possibly. BUT WHY, ON EARTH, ARE WE PLANNING TO DO IT?

Because government and the media appear to think there is an obesity crisis and it needs solving regardless of what you or I want to eat.

As for Brexit, the voters voted and the political parties got the bit between their collective teeth and rode off tilting at windmills.
I'm fairly sure the politicians could cancel Brexit now. The longer they leave it the more damage to undo or have to live with - a firm that spend millions relocating a chunk of its operations overseas won't easily be tempted back. Stopping it to later start again or not - the one thing we are now short of is time. Wasted 2 years already and could do with 20 years.

I'm not so confident that a 2nd referendum could be done prior to 8 months time, what with the summer break etc.

Be quicker to call a general election and run on a campaign to scrap Brexit, then scrap it once in power. Or try implementing the particular leader's vision of one side of the negotiating table. That's not the same as implementing the particular leader's vision of Brexit.

 

[Clodbuster]

Oh dear Chickenlicken - the sky is falling down.

 

[Cobby]

Oh dear Chickenlicken - the sky is falling down.

It does rather feel that way at the moment! :|

 

[Deleted member 59730]

There is a new petition up........

https://www.change.org/p/theresa-may-mp-give-people-a-final-say-on-brexit-deal

 

[Mr D]

There is a new petition up........

https://www.change.org/p/theresa-may-mp-give-people-a-final-say-on-brexit-deal

Will it achieve anything different than the previous few dozen?
You are better writing your MP.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Will it achieve anything different than the previous few dozen?
You are better writing your MP.

Why not do both?

My MP is a blind follower of Rees-Mogg. Not really surprising as he also believes that the earth was created about 4400 years ago by a divine fairy.

 

[Mr D]

Why not do both?

My MP is a blind follower of Rees-Mogg. Not really surprising as he also believes that the earth was created about 4400 years ago by a divine fairy.

There are people who believe anything.
Met a guy once who believed everything started from a big explosion somewhere in space.
Its also the name of a popular modern version of Friends on TV based in the US.


Perhaps a new MP needed in 2022 in your area?

 

[Clodbuster]

Perhaps a new MP needed in 2022 in your area?

Then again - perhaps the majority agree with him, but they must be incompetent and stupid then.

 

[Cobby]

There are people who believe anything.
Met a guy once who believed everything started from a big explosion somewhere in space.
Its also the name of a popular modern version of Friends on TV based in the US.

A good metaphor for Brexit and its presentation so far.

On one side the Christians who rely entirely upon faith and need to evidence to validate their beliefs. On the other side you have science, relying on data, evidence and observable, repeatable results.

Both are apparently "equal".

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Both are apparently "equal".

Except to the Brexit Broadcasting Corporation which has said that the side relying on lies has now established the reality and the BBC no longer need to report the issue impartially according to reporter Nick Robinson.

 

[Mr D]

A good metaphor for Brexit and its presentation so far.

On one side the Christians who rely entirely upon faith and need to evidence to validate their beliefs. On the other side you have science, relying on data, evidence and observable, repeatable results.

Both are apparently "equal".

Have you seen this explanation you have been told about? Have you seen this explosion or this fairy?
Or are you going on what you are told? Going on faith in what others tell you.

Did you believe in the Higgs Boson Particle before 2012? Have you seen one since? Science relied on evidence and observable, repeatable results decades later than the theory was proposed. But have you seen it or have you been told about it and going on faith in what you are told?

Did you vote on Brexit referendum based on what you were told by others?

Religion and science has been known to change over time.

 

[Cobby]

Except to the Brexit Broadcasting Corporation which has said that the side relying on lies has now established the reality and the BBC no longer need to report the issue impartially according to reporter Nick Robinson.

I quite often see it referred to these days as the Brexit Broadcast Corporation, which is pretty accurate.

Check out this piece: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44957900
It's the BBC offering free advertising for the fund-raising attempt by one of the law-breaking cheats involved in the illegal Vote Leave campaign. Helping him raise the profile of his fundraising effort. The BBC.

 

[Cobby]

Have you seen this explanation you have been told about? Have you seen this explosion or this fairy?
Or are you going on what you are told? Going on faith in what others tell you.

Did you believe in the Higgs Boson Particle before 2012? Have you seen one since? Science relied on evidence and observable, repeatable results decades later than the theory was proposed. But have you seen it or have you been told about it and going on faith in what you are told?

Did you vote on Brexit referendum based on what you were told by others?

Religion and science has been known to change over time.

"Science is a religion"? Really? Wow.

There's a religion thread in here somewhere, I suggest you take your weak-sauce attempts at trolling over there and leave this thread to Brexit discussion.

 

[Mr D]

"Science is a religion"? Really? Wow.

There's a religion thread in here somewhere, I suggest you take your weak-sauce attempts at trolling over there and leave this thread to Brexit discussion.

Now you are making stuff up.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

I have just heard on LBC that Bristol city council have a plan for when we leave for "civil unrest"

You lot up there had better get in quick if you want to relocate to somewhere safe as I only have space for three portacabins

 

[Mr D]

I have just heard on LBC that Bristol city council have a plan for when we leave for "civil unrest"

You lot up there had better get in quick if you want to relocate to somewhere safe as I only have space for three portacabins

Quite possible its a plan from several decades ago, taken out and dusted off any time there's a riot or other major civil unrest.
Whether its any use....?

There's a story about Hurricane Katrina hitting New Orleans a few years back. They had a plan set up for emergency evacuation. Except no one had told the people who were a major component of the plan of their part in it - bus drivers. Great plan, poor implementation.

 

[Clodbuster]

Anyone would think Hitler's about to invade. I wasn't around but even I don't think Merkel will invade.

 

[Cobby]

There's a story about Hurricane Katrina hitting New Orleans a few years back. They had a plan set up for emergency evacuation. Except no one had told the people who were a major component of the plan of their part in it

Very much like our current government. They have abandoned evidence based arguments in pursuit of their ideology (No-Deal Brexit) and simply regurgitate dishonest "Will of the People" arguments - ironic given this:

"The government has also asked companies involved in no-deal planning to sign non-disclosure agreements to stop “alarming details leaking out”. A source told the Sunday Times: “People will s**t themselves and think they want a new referendum or an election or think the Tory party shouldn’t govern again.”

Apparently "The Will of the People" is enough reason to ruin the country, but not enough to actually let the people be informed.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

I have just heard on LBC that Bristol city council have a plan for when we leave for "civil unrest"

It could happen, if things are bad enough. In fact, I don't think it's hugely unrealistic in the event of a no deal scenario.

It's worth bearing in mind that the last series of riots weren't that long ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_England_riots. The spark had racial elements, but it quickly snowballed from there due to a range of socio-economic factors.

In the worst-case no deal scenario (which we can still avoid), there would be major disruptions to businesses, travel, jobs, public services and the supply of food and medicines.

When you have the tinder of heightened emotion that already exists between factions, and you combine that with job losses and, crucially, a shortage of food and important medicines, it's a very dangerous recipe.

What concerns me are those who continue to dismiss this as scaremongering.

Many of the reasons behind these issues are very straightforward. If we crash out with nothing, then on the stroke of midnight, many of the legal frameworks and systems will no longer apply. Full-scale tariffs and checks must start immediately, and companies in areas such as medical supply and travel will not be certified to continue what they were doing.

 

[Jeff FV]

Anyone would think Hitler's about to invade. I wasn't around but even I don't think Merkel will invade.

You are 180 degrees out of phase.

The big initial problem with a no deal is that nothing, and no one, will be able to get into the country (at least not as simply as can be done now.)

It is not about being invaded

Foodstuffs will be stuck at the borders; (I could be wrong but I don’t think) any insulin is manufactured in the U.K., ... we live in a just in time economy and a no deal Brexit will cause that to cease to work in, err, time.

On a minor, but personal note, my 50th birthday is (Thursday) 28th March 2019, I already have the following week off. For the last 18 months or so, my wife and I have decided that we would have a mini break in, perhaps, Croatia or Berlin to celebrate my big day.


If we crash out of the EU, we do so on Friday 29th March. I have deliberately put my plans on hold, and have not yet booked anything. I cannot be sure that flights will be flying (airlines & pilots will no longer be insured & licensed) I suspect that businesses- with a far greater economic clout than little old me - have been making (or more appropriately, postponing) plans too.

Just to reiterate - nobody other than leavers have ever been worried about anyone “invading” (although interesting that “leavers” use the language of invasion)

 

[Deleted member 59730]

If we crash out of the EU, we do so on Friday 29th March. I have deliberately put my plans on hold, and have not yet booked anything.

I plan to be out of the country on the 29th. Either in France by boat or in Mexico flying well before and returning well after. Not a special trip, just what I normally do at that time.

 

[Jeff FV]

I plan to be out of the country on the 29th. Either in France by boat or in Mexico flying well before and returning well after. Not a special trip, just what I normally do at that time.

I think if you are already out of the country on 29th, and not returning until “we’ll after”, you should be OK, but for a short trip (3 nights, say) the potential is is to have to spend a significant amount of that time in a queue, or find that flights have been cancelled in the immediate chaos

 

[Mr D]

You are 180 degrees out of phase.

The big initial problem with a no deal is that nothing, and no one, will be able to get into the country (at least not as simply as can be done now.)

It is not about being invaded

Foodstuffs will be stuck at the borders; (I could be wrong but I don’t think) any insulin is manufactured in the U.K., ... we live in a just in time economy and a no deal Brexit will cause that to cease to work in, err, time.

On a minor, but personal note, my 50th birthday is (Thursday) 28th March 2019, I already have the following week off. For the last 18 months or so, my wife and I have decided that we would have a mini break in, perhaps, Croatia or Berlin to celebrate my big day.


If we crash out of the EU, we do so on Friday 29th March. I have deliberately put my plans on hold, and have not yet booked anything. I cannot be sure that flights will be flying (airlines & pilots will no longer be insured & licensed) I suspect that businesses- with a far greater economic clout than little old me - have been making (or more appropriately, postponing) plans too.

Just to reiterate - nobody other than leavers have ever been worried about anyone “invading” (although interesting that “leavers” use the language of invasion)

Airlines already making plans - Ryanair? putting on tickets that it may not be valid if no deal is reached.

I've renewed my most important med last week, new ones have 18 months on them. Can survive without other meds for a few weeks or months though long term effects not great.
While people may not be able to officially stock up, the pharmacy companies may well stock up on some things.
Which of course impacts cashflow for them....

I suspect cashflow will be a limiting factor for a number of companies in stocking up prior to leaving.

 

[KM-Tiger]

Foodstuffs will be stuck at the borders; (I could be wrong but I don’t think) any insulin is manufactured in the U.K., ... we live in a just in time economy and a no deal Brexit will cause that to cease to work in, err, time.

Insulin is manufactured in the UK, at two locations I understand.

And there is no particular reason for border delays of goods. we are signatories to the WTO Trade Facilitation Agreement, which provides, amongst other things, for rapid customs clearance. The port of Felixstowe handles hundreds of thousands of containers each year from all over the world. There isn't a queue of ships as customs is dealt with efficiently, mainly electronically. So we have have a working system that could be applied to other ports, eg Dover.

That said, the just in time model may well have to adjust. But if businesses know they must, they will.

 

[The Byre]

Insulin is manufactured in the UK, at two locations I understand.

It's the little things that trip one up.

We all think about key medications, such as insulin and blood supplies - but what about scalpels and catheters, swabs and sutures, syringes and needles? None of these things are made in the UK and without them people die.

 

[thetiger2015]

I imagine that disaster will be averted at the last minute....by our government agreeing to anything and everything just to keep the wheels turning and to avoid such situations as planes being grounded and trains stuck at the other side of the tunnel.

When people voted 'out out out' they clearly weren't thinking about who had their hand on the tiller. It wasn't going to be Cameron, he would of fluffed it up too but he was already one foot out of the door by the time of the vote.

Be in no doubt. The UK is going to pay for this decision. It's not the whole getting out of the EU thing, it's more about our completely useless government. All of them. They're all completely useless at negotiating and they only want to feather their own nests.

I imagine everything will carry on as normal, except we'll be paying more for all of the things we already do. Imports will go up, export costs will go up and any hope of growing an economy within the UK will be taxed to death as soon as the shoots begin to show their heads.

In theory, the UK should of been able to negotiate and push its way out and everyone would have smiles on their faces. Unfortunately, our negotiating is done by twits....and that's never going to end well.

 

[KM-Tiger]

It's the little things that trip one up.

We all think about key medications, such as insulin and blood supplies - but what about scalpels and catheters, swabs and sutures, syringes and needles? None of these things are made in the UK and without them people die.

So we continue to import them. So what?

I don't understand where this myth that all imports will stop if we leave the EU without a trade deal is coming from. It's nonsense. You don't need a trade deal to trade. Our biggest (and most successful) trading partner is the USA, with whom we have no trade deal.

 

[The Byre]

So we continue to import them. So what?

Oh, I absolutely agree!

I was merely pointing out that if we are to go into Corporal Jones mode and start panic buying and hording, then we have to horde everything from fly-spray to bubble-wrap!

This is the Millennium Bug all over again! Nothing will happen. Brexit will be cancelled (or so watered down that it will be in name only!) and we can all calm down and go back to scratching ourselves whilst watching telly and waiting for Death.

 

[KM-Tiger]

then we have to horde everything from fly-spray to bubble-wrap!

Yes, I wonder how much fly spray we will need to deal with the plague of locusts?

 

[Jeff FV]

So we continue to import them. So what?

I don't understand where this myth that all imports will stop if we leave the EU without a trade deal is coming from. It's nonsense. You don't need a trade deal to trade. .

Of course we will continue to trade & import, no one is saying that.

The immediate concern with a no deal Brexit is that those imports will get bogged down as they will now need customs checks that imports from the EU do not currently need. Given the sheer volume of “stuff” arriving from the EU every day, even adding on checks that will only take minutes will have a significant impact on the flow of goods through our ports

Even if it is simple and “frictionless” it will be harder to trade with the EU than it currently is.