The End Of UKIP

[Cobby]

If I said that all Remainers were deluded and were not right thinking, as you did with UKIP, wouldn't you consider that to be an insult?

No, see, that's a generalisation. What we might ask you to do would be to try and justify your generalisation. Just for a laugh.

 

[ShirleyM]

You attacked me personally because I commented on UKIP generally. Do you not understand the diference?

Right, let's try again.

You said: That is a broad insult, and tells much about you, ie. anyone who doesn't agree with you is automatically deluded and not 'right-minded'.

You attacked me personally because I commented on UKIP generally. Do you not understand the diference?

You could report me and let the mods sort it out, but as far as I see it, your comments were much more insulting than mine, and you insulted a whole bunch of people directly.

 

[Newchodge]

Give me strength.

 

[Cobby]

you insulted a whole bunch of people directly.

lol

I don't think the mods care about this kind of stupid bickering to be honest, they have better things to worry about!

 

[Cobby]

Give me strength.

Let it go, friend.

 

[Newchodge]

Let it go, friend.

You're right, mate.

But it is quite hard!

 

[ShirleyM]

You're right, mate.

But it is quite hard!

Like being falsely accused of racism? Yes, it is quite hard.

 

[Cobby]

Like being falsely accused of racism? Yes, it is quite hard.

Well, you're lucky that didn't happen!

 

[ShirleyM]

Well actually, it was when you posted about the nasty coloured foreigners coming here with the sole purpose of raping our white women, about a week ago, and when you were challenged you never responded.

Edit: sorry john I read this as coming from Shirley, who made that comment. This was not aimed at you.

Meaning it was aimed at me? Why? I've never said anything remotely racist. It's in your imagination.

You may have accidentally misinterpreted something, but I can't think what, because I am not racist. I judge people on what they say and do, not on their colour or race.

ShirleyM said: ↑
For a start, few are genuine refugees. The majority are economic migrants and are young single males, not families. For once, I agreed with Cameron that they should be returned to Syria, or whichever homeland they come from, and supported in a safe area there, or even in a neighboring Muslim country.

It is the behaviour of these so-called refugees that causes the problem. It doesn't matter whether they come from Syria, or the Antarctic. We should not invite in anyone who does not respect our western way of life. The devastation and fear they have caused is totally unacceptable. Sweden and Germany are now the rape capitals of the world, thanks to Merkel's undemocratic invitation. The police and press in Germany have been silenced, as happened with the Rotherham grooming gang in the UK. you need to look beyond the main stream media to get a view of what is really happening in the EU.

Many EU countries are calling for their own referendums and many EU citizens are hoping Brexit will pave the way.
Click to expand...
Oh My God. these nasty dark coloured foreigners are coming here for the sole purpose of raping our white women. And the EU wants to help them do it. I never realised.

Get a grip, woman.

This was your post and my response to which you never gace an answer.

So, it was you who mentioned nasty dark coloured foreigners, wasn't it.

As I said earlier there is nothing racist in my comments, only in yours. I was complaining about the actions of people, not their race or colour.

Well, you're lucky that didn't happen!

Really? It looks like I was accused of racism to me, and to others, too. I let it drop once I had proven my innocence and I didn't keep harping on about it by playing the 'victim'.

 

[Cobby]

Really? It looks like I was accused of racism to me, and to others, too. I let it drop once I had proven my innocence and I didn't keep harping on about it by playing the 'victim'.

Oh, my apologies. I thought you were still talking about not understanding the difference between a generalisation and an insult, not the bit where you accidentally bundled talk of refugees and rapists together in a way that made it look like you were talking about them being the same thing. Sorry!

 

[ShirleyM]

Apology accepted.

 

[DishonestDave]

the bit where you accidentally bundled talk of refugees and rapists

Which bit?

 

[Cobby]

Which bit?

It is the behaviour of these so-called refugees that causes the problem. It doesn't matter whether they come from Syria, or the Antarctic. We should not invite in anyone who does not respect our western way of life. The devastation and fear they have caused is totally unacceptable. Sweden and Germany are now the rape capitals of the world, thanks to Merkel's undemocratic invitation.

That bit.

 

[DishonestDave]

That bit.

There is nothing wrong with pointing that out. Though the statement is slightly inaccurate, Sweden has the third highest rapes per capita in the world. I'd imagine that would be different if there was full reporting.

Sweden has stopped reporting on the background of rapists, but when they did 53% of perpetrators were foreigners. That was in the 90s when there were far fewer foreigners. The population is still only 15% foreign.

Since Sweden has been allowing immigration from the kind of countries that are at the bottom of the Global Gender Gap Report it is not surprising that rape is exploding in Sweden, tripling in the last 15 years:

There are quite a few countries that are not on this list that would probably be right at the bottom, like Afghanistan and Iraq.

If people are coming into your country from countries where women are treated, at best, as second class citizens, they aren't going to leave that at the door with them. A few examples:

In Afghanistan it is enshrined in law that a woman should sexually submit to her husband at least every four days.

The 49 countries where you can rape your wife.

74% of people in the Middle East and North Africa harbour anti-Jewish sentiment.

Support for polygamy, a trait of an alpha-ruled society in which woman are 2nd class.
20,000 polygamous marriages in the UK.

Vast majorities who believe a wife should always obey her husband.

Vast majorities who think homosexuals are immoral.

Unfree press.

Support for killing people who leave a religion.

Colossal homicide rates.

Vast numbers of women who have had their clitorides bashed off.

And the vast over-consumption of welfare and over-representation of 3rd world immigrants in crime statistics. (don't have time to fish out all the links on that)

I don't want this pouring into the country where I live, even more than it already has, as evidenced by such things a Voodoo sex trafficking, the new police units to deal with things such as honour crimes and arranged marriages, girls who have their genitals mutilated here, gender segregation, countless examples of women being blocked from positions in the Labour party, rape gangs that target on identity, drug trafficking, sex trafficking and so on.

As for refugees, they don't qualify as refugees by the time they have reached Germany or Sweden.

 

[Cobby]

There is nothing wrong with pointing that out. Though the statement is slightly inaccurate, Sweden has the third highest rapes per capita in the world. I'd imagine that would be different if there was full reporting.

Sweden has stopped reporting on the background of rapists, but when they did 53% of perpetrators were foreigners. That was in the 90s when there were far fewer foreigners. The population is still only 15% foreign.

Since Sweden has been allowing immigration from the kind of countries that are at the bottom of the Global Gender Gap Report it is not surprising that rape is exploding in Sweden, tripling in the last 15 years:

There are quite a few countries that are not on this list that would probably be right at the bottom, like Afghanistan and Iraq.

If people are coming into your country from countries where women are treated, at best, as second class citizens, they aren't going to leave that at the door with them. A few examples:

In Afghanistan it is enshrined in law that a woman should sexually submit to her husband at least every four days.

The 49 countries where you can rape your wife.

74% of people in the Middle East and North Africa harbour anti-Jewish sentiment.

Support for polygamy, a trait of an alpha-ruled society in which woman are 2nd class.
20,000 polygamous marriages in the UK.

Vast majorities who believe a wife should always obey her husband.

Vast majorities who think homosexuals are immoral.

Unfree press.

Support for killing people who leave a religion.

Colossal homicide rates.

Vast numbers of women who have had their clitorides bashed off.

And the vast over-consumption of welfare and over-representation of 3rd world immigrants in crime statistics. (don't have time to fish out all the links on that)

I don't want this pouring into the country where I live, even more than it already has, as evidenced by such things a Voodoo sex trafficking, the new police units to deal with things such as honour crimes and arranged marriages, girls who have their genitals mutilated here, gender segregation, countless examples of women being blocked from positions in the Labour party, rape gangs that target on identity, drug trafficking, sex trafficking and so on.

As for refugees, they don't qualify as refugees by the time they have reached Germany or Sweden.

That's interesting. Whereas Shirley's post (no doubt unintentionally) equating refugees to rapists was simply lazy reasoning, you've made a conscious, concerted effort to create and defend a direct causal link.

Well, at least we know where you stand on the issue!

 

[ShirleyM]

That's interesting. Whereas Shirley's post (no doubt unintentionally) equating refugees to rapists was simply lazy reasoning, you've made a conscious, concerted effort to create and defend a direct causal link.

The migrants and refugees from the Middle East have different views of the 'rights' and 'equalities' of women. That is fact, not conjecture.

Unless the governments and police start recording more data, eg. the nationality of perpetrators then we cannot have actual data, but it does appear that governments are afraid for these details to become known by the public and the media, so they try to hide it away rather than dealing with it, and they also shy away from prosecuting anyone who is not a white European, as happened with the Rotherham grooming gang. I quote from the article: “It is difficult to give a precise answer, because Swedish law forbids registration based on people’s ancestry or religion."

Here is a link to one pro-EU rag, The Independent, who also examine the rise in the number of rapes with the rise of non European immigration, ie. from the Middle East.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...er-of-sexual-assaults-in-europe-a6800901.html

 

[Cobby]

Cool, this latest post, instead of trying to clarify any argument about the problems of multiculturalism, conflates two separate issues (refugees from the middle-east and EU migration), then doubles-down on trying to label them all as rapists. Quite to what end, I'm not sure.

 

[ShirleyM]

then doubles-down on trying to label them all as rapists.

Nobody is trying to label anyone. I assume, like myself, they have many questions and cannot seem to find the answers because the data that would help determine the cause is not retained. Some unpleasant consequences have resulted from immigration. We have to find the cause before we can effect a cure.

 

[Newchodge]

I agree, Shirley. Probably the most unpleasant is abhorrent racist attacks on people because of their perceived race or ethnicity. What do you think the cause of that might be?

 

[sirearl]

I agree, Shirley. Probably the most unpleasant is abhorrent racist attacks on people because of their perceived race or ethnicity. What do you think the cause of that might be?

Statistics.....

 

[Cobby]

Nobody is trying to label anyone. I assume, like myself, they have many questions and cannot seem to find the answers because the data that would help determine the cause is not retained. Some unpleasant consequences have resulted from immigration. We have to find the cause before we can effect a cure.

The cause of what?

Rape? Child abuse? There is, unfortunately, plenty of that type of crime carried out by the native population; it is by no means an attribute of immigration, nor should it be assigned as one to immigrants, EU or otherwise.

If you'd like to discuss the government's underfunding of the police force and justice system to such an extent that it effectively penalizes the victims of such crimes, then knock out a thread for it and go to town. Perhaps a discussion about the regressive social attitudes at play in developing nations? Go for it!
Whichever you choose, please stop trying to represent violent crime as being a direct result of immigration, it makes you look silly.

 

[sirearl]

The cause of what?

Rape? Child abuse? There is, unfortunately, plenty of that type of crime carried out by the native population; it is by no means an attribute of immigration, nor should it be assigned as one to immigrants, EU or otherwise.

If you'd like to discuss the government's underfunding of the police force and justice system to such an extent that it effectively penalizes the victims of such crimes, then knock out a thread for it and go to town. Perhaps a discussion about the regressive social attitudes at play in developing nations? Go for it!
Whichever you choose, please stop trying to represent violent crime as being a direct result of immigration, it makes you look silly.

Like the French security service.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-intelligence-chief-warns.html#ixzz4EACoxFpd

 

[Newchodge]

Like the French security service.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-intelligence-chief-warns.html#ixzz4EACoxFpd

Which does not say there have been mass sexual assaults in France. It says that France could face civil war if there were further terrorist attacks or if there were mass sexual assaults.

 

[quikshop]

it is by no means an attribute of immigration, nor should it be assigned as one to immigrants, EU or otherwise.

The apologists of the socialist Councils of Rotherham, Rochdale et al would agree with you.

 

[Davek0974]

Statistics.....

33% of people know that's not corrrect

 

[ShirleyM]

Rape? Child abuse? There is, unfortunately, plenty of that type of crime carried out by the native population; it is by no means an attribute of immigration, nor should it be assigned as one to immigrants, EU or otherwise.

You are quite right to say that not all rapists are immigrants and not all immigrants are rapists, but the simple truth that people from civilisations that do not respect women are less likely to respect them. It's common sense.

Even the pro-EU Guardian has plenty to say:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/09/germany-sex-attacks-cologne-immigration.

Of course, we can just pretend it doesn't exist, ignore the problem, blame the whistleblowers, and hope it goes away of it's own accord. But it won't.

 

[Clodbuster]

Some think they are an Ostrich.

 

[Cobby]

You are quite right to say that not all rapists are immigrants and not all immigrants are rapists, but the simple truth that people from civilisations that do not respect women are less likely to respect them.

I do not disagree with this. But this is the point where your line of logic breaks down and no matter how many times, or how loudly you repeat it, you cannot justify, either explicitly or implicitly, calling immigrants rapists. Donald Trump did it and the only people that agreed with him were his racist supporters; how do think *you'll* fare?

The apologists of the socialist Councils of Rotherham, Rochdale et al would agree with you.

Nice to see you racing for the bottom of the intellectual barrel. Go on then, elaborate your point, let's see if you can hang yourself.

 

[ShirleyM]

I do not disagree with this. But this is the point where your line of logic breaks down and no matter how many times, or how loudly you repeat it, you cannot justify, either explicitly or implicitly, calling immigrants rapists.

You're in denial and obviously couldn't be bothered to read my post properly. Here it is .....

You are quite right to say that not all rapists are immigrants and not all immigrants are rapists, but the simple truth that people from civilisations that do not respect women are less likely to respect them. It's common sense.

I am just quoting the people of all the countries affected. We in the UK have seen an increase in forced marriages, FGM, child brides, honour killings, polygamy, etc. Who is responsible for those?

Quikshop was correct in that the Rotherham and Rochdales grooming gangs were concealed from the public. Do you have an opinion why?

 

[billmccallum1957]

Child brides & polygamy are not just for "immigrants", pop over to the US of A and have a chat with some Mormons. Who do seem to be predominately lighter skinned.

 

[ShirleyM]

Child brides & polygamy are not just for "immigrants", pop over to the UiS of A and have a chat with some Mormons. Who do seem to be predominately lighter skinned.

I don't care what colour they are. It should not happen in civilised countries where there are laws to prevent it.

 

[Newchodge]

You're in denial and obviously couldn't be bothered to read my post properly. Here it is .....



I am just quoting the people of all the countries affected. We in the UK have seen an increase in forced marriages, FGM, child brides, honour killings, polygamy, etc. Who is responsible for those?

Quikshop was correct in that the Rotherham and Rochdales grooming gangs were concealed from the public. Do you have an opinion why?

OK

How many of those relate to EU immigration?

 

[Ian J]

I don't care what colour they are. It should not happen in civilised countries where there are laws to prevent it.

He was referring to the USA and not a civilized country

 

[Cobby]

You're in denial and obviously couldn't be bothered to read my post properly. Here it is .....

I am just quoting the people of all the countries affected. We in the UK have seen an increase in forced marriages, FGM, child brides, honour killings, polygamy, etc. Who is responsible for those?

You're still doing it. You're still trying to mention them all in the same sentence trying to imply stereotypes.

Quikshop was correct in that the Rotherham and Rochdales grooming gangs were concealed from the public. Do you have an opinion why?

Quikshop seems to be trying to do what you're doing. He wasn't clear on what his point was either.

I don't care what colour they are. It should not happen in civilised countries where there are laws to prevent it.

See, your problem is with law enforcement. That wasn't so hard, was it?
You should be getting angry at the government for cutting back our police force, not all foreign people because a few of them are criminals.

 

[Clodbuster]

You should be getting angry at the government for cutting back our police force,

And you are prepared to either increase your tax or perhaps contribute to this increase plus all the other increases that "must" be made?

 

[billmccallum1957]

I do find it hard to understand why a thread about the end of UKIP has become a debate about race, immigration and sex crime. grrrrr !!!!

Anyone who has worked at the front line dealing with asylum seekers, refugees and migrants will tell you that the majority of people who do come to this country come for the right reasons, but as always, there will be a minority who manage to taint the rest.

If you didn't already know, we have had racism, discrimination, and sex crimes in this country long before the EU issue raised its head, Ian Huntley, Harold Shipman, Fred West, Peter Sutcliffe & Jimmy Saville are just a few notable examples who were not immigrants.

Can we have some sensible debate, instead of the cr*p?

 

[MikeJ]

I do find it hard to understand why a thread about the end of UKIP has become a debate about race, immigration and sex crime. grrrrr !!!!

I don't.

 

[quikshop]

You should be getting angry at the government for cutting back our police force, not all foreign people because a few of them are criminals.

No-one is pointing that finger at all foreign people Cobby, that would be racist. Doesn't the cultural justification from wherever it originates for abusing women make you angry Cobby?

 

[john1989]

You're still doing it. You're still trying to mention them all in the same sentence trying to imply stereotypes.



Quikshop seems to be trying to do what you're doing. He wasn't clear on what his point was either.



See, your problem is with law enforcement. That wasn't so hard, was it?
You should be getting angry at the government for cutting back our police force, not all foreign people because a few of them are criminals.

Why not just cut immigration?

We can't keep increasing services such as health, policing and education to meet an unlimited demand.

 

[Cobby]

And you are prepared to either increase your tax or perhaps contribute to this increase plus all the other increases that "must" be made?

Ah yes, either taxes go up or I personally pay a security bill. These are the only two options the government have and is definitely the reason our law enforcement budgets keep getting cut.

No-one is pointing that finger at all foreign people Cobby, that would be racist.

Intentionally or not (and I'm starting to believe its the former), they are.

Doesn't the cultural justification from wherever it originates for abusing women make you angry Cobby?

Wherever *what* originates? Can you just once manage not to conflate immigration with sexual abuse?
I already said, if you want to have a conversation about regressive cultural attitudes in developing countries, I'll be right by your side deploring them. If you want to have that conversation in this thread and keep talking about immigrants in the same breath with a wink and a nudge, then you're on your own.