Europe should we stay in or get out?

[Deleted member 226268]

Three years ago a lot of Greek's personal bank accounts were raided overnight.
Up to 60% of the contents.
Little hope of ever having their money back.

Now their pensions are being raided, backdated to January 1, so now they have to give
that last 6 month's payments back.

Their V.A.T. rate has recently increased to 24%
27% unemployment.

Why the hell is Greece still in the E.U. ?

Spain is in a similar position right now, with more debt than it is actually worth in total.
20% unemployment.

Can the Spanish expect overnight bank raids on their accounts and V.A.T. rises.

If we leave, can we expect that our own V.A.T. will rise ?

Everything is crumbling down, worrying about the question of being IN or OUT
is going to be decided for us.

When one Country collapses, all the rest will follow rapidly.

 

[MikeJ]

Despite this, the Euro is strengthening against the pound.

 

[MikeJ]

You do realise Cyprus and Greece are different countries, don't you? It was Cyprus that raided the bank deposits.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

You are failing to understand economics.

You are taking one piece of information and ignoring all the other bits of the jigsaw.

Oh I understand economics quite clearly, thank you.

I'm also able to look at the rather obvious causation links. Every time a new opinion poll comes out favouring leave, the Pound drops sharply. Every time one comes out favouring remain, the Pound goes up. Or are they just coincidences too?

Sterling's most recent sizeable rise, around the 25th of May, coincided with 7 opinion polls in a row showing remain in the lead. It has plunged since. Coincidence?

Despite economic growth, traders have also set up short positions against the Pound to the tune of billions in the past couple of months - more than any other time since UK recession. Is that a coincidence as well?

There are, of course, dozens of factors at play regarding the value of Sterling. Some will add positive weight to the currency whilst others will add negative weight. However, it is the EU referendum which has pulled the Pound to such steep lows which only look set to get worse.

This theory also comes with a big dose of common sense. Traders simply do not like short-term uncertainty on the run up to the EU referendum, and dislike long-term uncertainty in the event of Brexit even more.

 

[john1989]

Oh I understand economics quite clearly, thank you.

I'm also able to look at the rather obvious causation links. Every time a new opinion poll comes out favouring leave, the Pound drops sharply. Every time one comes out favouring remain, the Pound goes up. Or are they just coincidences too?

Sterling's most recent sizeable rise, around the 25th of May, coincided with 7 opinion polls in a row showing remain in the lead. It has plunged since. Coincidence?

Despite economic growth, traders have also set up short positions against the Pound to the tune of billions in the past couple of months - more than any other time since UK recession. Is that a coincidence as well?

There are, of course, dozens of factors at play regarding the value of Sterling. Some will add positive weight to the currency whilst others will add negative weight. However, it is the EU referendum which has pulled the Pound to such steep lows which only look set to get worse.

This theory also comes with a big dose of common sense. Traders simply do not like short-term uncertainty on the run up to the EU referendum, and dislike long-term uncertainty in the event of Brexit even more.

I don’t think you do.


You are now saying ‘dozens of factors at play regarding the value of sterling’. This is despite your original comment that is it ENTIRELY the referendum influencing the pound. Which is it?


I’ve already explained the position of traders. The low interest rates encourages traders to offload the currency which subsequently devalues it. Nothing to do with the referendum.

 

[MikeJ]

Maybe Hargreaves Lansdown know something?

https://www.hl.co.uk/news/articles/eu-referendum-implications-for-sterling

 

[john1989]

Maybe Hargreaves Lansdown know something?

https://www.hl.co.uk/news/articles/eu-referendum-implications-for-sterling

Interesting.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35822037

 

[KM-Tiger]

From the BBC:

Donald Tusk: Brexit could destroy western political civilisation

What complete and utter crap. And some of you want to be governed by such idiots?

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

I don’t think you do.

You are now saying ‘dozens of factors at play regarding the value of sterling’. This is despite your original comment that is it ENTIRELY the referendum influencing the pound. Which is it?

That's not what I said though, is it?

You asked me:

Do you honestly believe that the pound devaluing is entirely down to the looming referendum?

Yes. It is entirely down to that.

And it is. This persistent decline at these levels is due to the EU referendum.

It has direct and in-direct effects as well, of course. As mentioned in Mikej's article, Brexit will cause the Bank of England to change their strategy with further quantitative easing which will suppress the Pound even more.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

I cannot believe that the Leave campaigns accuse the pro-EU campaigns of "Project Fear" and scaremongering, then come out with stuff like this:

Disgusting.

 

[john1989]

That's not what I said though, is it?

You asked me:





And it is. This persistent decline at these levels is due to the EU referendum.

It has direct and in-direct effects as well, of course. As mentioned in Mikej's article, Brexit will cause the Bank of England to change their strategy with further quantitative easing which will suppress the Pound even more.

That's exactly what you said!!

I asked if it was entirely down to the looming referendum and you said "yes it's entirely down to that".
For any avoidance of doubt, the word entirely means fully, wholly, exclusively, completely etc.

 

[quikshop]

I cannot believe that the Leave campaigns accuse the pro-EU campaigns of "Project Fear"

They're right though, the pro-EU campaign has been almost entirely about scaring the socks of the public.

 

[KM-Tiger]

Disgusting.

Is it?

Or is there some other reason France is still on high alert?

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

They're right though, the pro-EU campaign has been almost entirely about scaring the socks of the public.

Of course it will be, but that's to be expected.

The remain camp are arguing for the status quo. The leave camp are arguing against it.

It is therefore natural that the remain campaign will highlight the risks of leaving the status quo. Everyone has to know the potential effects of Brexit, however scary they may be.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

Is it?

Or is there some other reason France is still on high alert?

If you are genuinely defending a piece which basically suggests "if you don't leave the EU then Islamic extremists will carry out a mass shooting in the UK" then I really don't know what to say.

I used to laugh at the United States for seriously considering Donald Trump as president. However, as the days go by, it's becoming clear that the Leave campaign is basically a collective embodiment of Donald Trump.

 

[john1989]

If you are genuinely defending a piece which basically suggests "if you don't leave the EU then Islamic extremists will carry out a mass shooting in the UK" then I really don't know what to say.

I used to laugh at the United States for seriously considering Donald Trump as president. However, as the days go by, it's becoming clear that the Leave campaign is basically a collective embodiment of Donald Trump.

There is a reason that Muslim extremism is happening in non-Muslim countries.

What reason do you think that is?

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Disgusting.

And that is just the tortured prose ;-)

 

[KM-Tiger]

The remain camp are arguing for the status quo.

Which is actually the biggest lie of the lot as it won't be the status quo. It's an open secret in Brussels that all sorts is being held back until after our referendum.

What a lot of people do not realise is that the Lisbon Treaty handed over control of virtually anything a UK govt might do to Brussels. Two areas particularly worry me:

Defence. Do we really want the bureaucrats to be able to take us into war? Yes I guess we'll have our 3.7% vote on that, but that is all.

Criminal Justice. We already have the EAW which can see British citizens detained in foreign jails without Habeus Corpus. Do we want to see our system of law replaced with some EU code?

 

[simon field]

Politicians and campaigns have a duty to inform people of the risks and possible outcomes of a decision they may choose to make.

He's the PM for Pete's sake! Nobody listens to him. He'd probably have done better by keeping his mouth shut by the look of it. Every day there's some new threat. What's wrong with him - couldn't he have thought of them all in one go instead of drip-feeding them to the venerable?

People aren't influenced by posh eton schoolboys or their hangers-on, think tanks, bankers etc. They are influenced by their peers, their friends, family and work colleagues. You know, everyday normal people.

However - something has occurred to me: Those who wish for mummy to still hold their hand will have two years in which to form their own exit strategy! They will be able to migrate to mainland Europe and take advantage of all the benefits that the EU brings, leaving the rest of us to fester in the smouldering ruins of our once proud nation eating tripe & grass whilst you feast greedily upon kebab-meat and l'escargot!

(All washed down with as much Ouzo as you can drink.

 

[KM-Tiger]

leaving the rest of us to fester in the smouldering ruins of our once proud nation eating tripe & grass

That was supposed to happen when we did not join the Euro ...

 

[MikeJ]

Interesting.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35822037

So, he's in favour of leaving, but the point we were discussing was what would happen to the currency. His company has an article accepting Sterling is likely to fall in the event of a Brexit vote.

 

[MikeJ]

Watching ShirlyM "liking" every pro-Brexit post is very funny.

 

[ShirleyM]

The remain camp are arguing for the status quo.

KM-Tiger beat me to it, but that's the biggest Remain lie of all.

There is no status quo, and the people scared into voting Remain will eventually realise they have been lied to and sold a pup, because Remain is the risky option and they will distrust particular politicians even more than happens now.

 

[MikeJ]

Those who wish for mummy to still hold their hand will have two years in which to form their own exit strategy!

If you're going to use language like that, is it ok if we call you a bunch of racists?

 

[ShirleyM]

Watching ShirlyM "liking" every pro-Brexit post is very funny.

I like to please. I'm quite a generous person, maybe that's why I support the whole of the UK, including the 'have not's' who are suffering because of EU free movement of people.

 

[KM-Tiger]

Status quo anyone?

 

[MikeJ]

If you're going to use language like that, is it ok if we call you a bunch of racists?

Call us cowards again. That was very funny.

where did he go anyway?

 

[MikeJ]

I like to please. I'm quite a generous person, maybe that's why I support the whole of the UK, including the 'have not's' who are suffering because of EU free movement of people.

But your generosity stops at the border?

Different coloured skin? Let 'em starve, eh?

 

[john1989]

But your generosity stops at the border?

Different coloured skin? Let 'em starve, eh?

When did this become a discussion of skin colour?

Quite poor that you have to resort to accusations of racism. Not uncommon amongst the remain, however.

 

[KM-Tiger]

But your generosity stops at the border?

Different coloured skin? Let 'em starve, eh?

I doubt it.

If we really want to help people with different coloured skins, in Africa for instance, then out of the EU we could reduce or eliminate tariffs on their agricultural produce and buy more of it.

Win, win. We get cheaper food, they prosper through selling more of it.

 

[MikeJ]

Around the point when people started worrying about Turks coming here? Different religion, different coloured skin..... it so often boils down to this.

 

[john1989]

Around the point when people started worrying about Turks coming here? Different religion, different coloured skin..... it so often boils down to this.

Nothing to do with skin colour. More their backwards thinking ... Turkish newspaper yesterday stated "50 perverts dead". These people will never integrate into a western society.

 

[simon field]

If you're going to use language like that, is it ok if we call you a bunch of racists?

Me, racist? I'm quarter Ukrainian, married to a half Puerto-Rican lol!

 

[MikeJ]

What does that have to do with it? You mean only British people can be racists? That's racist.

 

[simon field]

Call us cowards again. That was very funny.

where did he go anyway?

We collectively set up an account as 'amberlamps' just to get the party started

 

[Newchodge]

When did this become a discussion of skin colour?

Quite poor that you have to resort to accusations of racism. Not uncommon amongst the remain, however.

Well actually, it was when you posted about the nasty coloured foreigners coming here with the sole purpose of raping our white women, about a week ago, and when you were challenged you never responded.

Edit: sorry john I read this as coming from Shirley, who made that comment. This was not aimed at you.

 

[ShirleyM]

Edit: sorry john I read this as coming from Shirley, who made that comment. This was not aimed at you.

Meaning it was aimed at me? Why? I've never said anything remotely racist. It's in your imagination.

You may have accidentally misinterpreted something, but I can't think what, because I am not racist. I judge people on what they say and do, not on their colour or race.

 

[Newchodge]

ShirleyM said: ↑
For a start, few are genuine refugees. The majority are economic migrants and are young single males, not families. For once, I agreed with Cameron that they should be returned to Syria, or whichever homeland they come from, and supported in a safe area there, or even in a neighboring Muslim country.

It is the behaviour of these so-called refugees that causes the problem. It doesn't matter whether they come from Syria, or the Antarctic. We should not invite in anyone who does not respect our western way of life. The devastation and fear they have caused is totally unacceptable. Sweden and Germany are now the rape capitals of the world, thanks to Merkel's undemocratic invitation. The police and press in Germany have been silenced, as happened with the Rotherham grooming gang in the UK. you need to look beyond the main stream media to get a view of what is really happening in the EU.

Many EU countries are calling for their own referendums and many EU citizens are hoping Brexit will pave the way.
Click to expand...
Oh My God. these nasty dark coloured foreigners are coming here for the sole purpose of raping our white women. And the EU wants to help them do it. I never realised.

Get a grip, woman.

This was your post and my response to which you never gace an answer.

 

[ShirleyM]

Oh My God. these nasty dark coloured foreigners are coming here for the sole purpose of raping our white women. And the EU wants to help them do it. I never realised.

Get a grip, woman.

So, it was you who mentioned nasty dark coloured foreigners, wasn't it.

As I said earlier there is nothing racist in my comments, only in yours. I was complaining about the actions of people, not their race or colour.

You are a patronising hypocritical unpleasant person. Now stop seeing what you want to see, and making up imagined comments. You don't usually need a reason to throw insults. Why start now?

Get a grip. man!

ps. I rarely answer baited and loaded questions.

 

[Newchodge]

So, it was you who mentioned nasty dark coloured foreigners, wasn't it.

As I said earlier there is nothing racist in my comments, only in yours. I was complaining about the actions of people, not their race or colour.

You are a patronising hypocritical unpleasant person. Now stop seeing what you want to see, and making up imagined comments. You don't usually need a reason to throw insults. Why start now?

Get a grip. man!

ps. I rarely answer baited and loaded questions.

Just interested to know why you never responded to that original dialogue?