Business losses due to staff

[AnneLou]

In my line of business, stock and cash losses are an inevitable aspect. We do our best to minimise them with training etc. but I am interested in how other retail businesses deal with losses caused by staff failings.
As the new living wage kicks in next year, I don't think it is too much to expect staff to knuckle down more and I don't see why my business should keep paying for mistakes made by others.
I will give some examples - I operate a pub/hotel business:-
Food/drink ordered by customers, inattention by staff results in customers leaving without paying.
Till being down at the end of the trading day.
Staff failing to add drinks or food to the till before the customer pays - resulting in losses at stocktake.

Like everyone else, we have had thieves! Not many, and we usually find them out quite quickly. The issues I'm more concerned with are "mistakes" which we could write off in the past when wages matched the skills we needed. Things are about to change though and I am interested in how other retailers deal with some of these issues.

 

[Ian J]

I operate a pub/hotel business:-
Food/drink ordered by customers, inattention by staff results in customers leaving without paying.

In my local pub/restaurant the staff take a swipe of my credit card if I set up a tab

 

[Andrew Chambers]

AnneLou I'm not sure how the above post would help. It's not going to cut down on drinks/food not being added to bills and other staff mistakes, which I'm guessing is the issue. It will cut out the walk-outs if you insist everyone runs a tab, to a degree. And of course not everyone wants to run a tab and a party of customers will still pay cash for their rounds.

It's all down to training and having experienced and enthusiastic staff. If you pay minimum wage you usually get minimum experience/enthusiasm.

This thread might be better in the Retail section.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Obviously holding or swiping a card will almost eliminate the proble.m of customers leaving without paying.

An effective eons system will help to manage other issues - coupled with the above it will create a useful cross- check on what staff are entering

The truth is that in your trade, staff will tend to be transient and perhaps not dynamic, but putting in place some simple, e fee time systems and training will help

Above that, being respected as a boss make s a big difference!

 

[Andrew Chambers]

Obviously holding or swiping a card will almost eliminate the proble.m of customers leaving without paying.

An effective eons system will help to manage other issues - coupled with the above it will create a useful cross- check on what staff are entering

The truth is that in your trade, staff will tend to be transient and perhaps not dynamic, but putting in place some simple, e fee time systems and training will help

Above that, being respected as a boss make s a big difference!

100%, in any retail environment you need to treat and pay your staff well. It's cheaper in the long run than paying minimum wage and treating them like monkeys. Respect the staff and (in most cases, there will be exceptions) they will respect you and the business.

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

In my line of business, stock and cash losses are an inevitable aspect.

Food/drink ordered by customers, inattention by staff results in customers leaving without paying.

Till being down at the end of the trading day.

Staff failing to add drinks or food to the till before the customer pays - resulting in losses at stocktake.


Like everyone else, we have had thieves! Not many, and we usually find them out quite quickly. The issues I'm more concerned with are "mistakes" which we could write off in the past when wages matched the skills we needed. Things are about to change though and I am interested in how other retailers deal with some of these issues.

Hi AnneLou,


Deductions from wages – perfectly legally, done in proportion to earnings – are a means to encourage improvement, and are used in your sector often. It encourages better attention, and peer pressure to help ensure all transactions are done properly.

100%, in any retail environment you need to treat and pay your staff well. It's cheaper in the long run than paying minimum wage and treating them like monkeys. Respect the staff and (in most cases, there will be exceptions) they will respect you and the business.

Minimum wage is increasing in April, an increase of 11% from a year before. That’s going to require that all staff are paid well, regardless of how well they work, or how much they contribute (or don’t) to the employer. The idea that paying well is the answer to everything is just crazy to my mind... but then I do make a living out of advising on disciplinary/capability procedures, not recommending rates of pay, so I may be bias.



Karl Limpert

 

[Mark T Jones]

I would say that treating/rewarding staff is the key here as opposed to paying more - this is accepted as a low wage environment.

However low paid staff can be motivated by being made to feel involved and with subtle, low cost rewards

 

[Andrew Chambers]

I would say that treating/rewarding staff is the key here as opposed to paying more - this is accepted as a low wage environment.

However low paid staff can be motivated by being made to feel involved and with subtle, low cost rewards

Na, pay them well and obviously treat them well. By pay well I'm not talking stupid money but above the market average. Combine that with flexibility (on both sides) hours and everyone is happy.

 

[Andrew Chambers]

Hi AnneLou,


Deductions from wages – perfectly legally, done in proportion to earnings – are a means to encourage improvement, and are used in your sector often. It encourages better attention, and peer pressure to help ensure all transactions are done properly.





Minimum wage is increasing in April, an increase of 11% from a year before. That’s going to require that all staff are paid well, regardless of how well they work, or how much they contribute (or don’t) to the employer. The idea that paying well is the answer to everything is just crazy to my mind... but then I do make a living out of advising on disciplinary/capability procedures, not recommending rates of pay, so I may be bias.



Karl Limpert

I don't think a 11% increase means staff are "well paid". Also, whilst it maybe legal to make deductions from wages that is the way of the s*it employer looking for equally s*it staff on the least they can pay.

Staff are the soul of any business. And Karl, I appreciate you are looking at this from a legal stance, but a legal stance isn't how you retain decent staff. It's give and take, and if a good employer gives then the staff don't " take" but give more. Win win.

 

[john1989]

If someone is incompetent or constantly making mistakes, paying them more isn't going to change that.

There needs to be good training from the start, and consequences for making a habit of mistakes.

 

[Andrew Chambers]

If someone is incompetent or constantly making mistakes, paying them more isn't going to change that.

There needs to be good training from the start, and consequences for making a habit of mistakes.

I agree, you pay more to get and retain the good staff. Be stoopid to pay the inadequate more!!

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

I don't think a 11% increase means staff are "well paid". Also, whilst it maybe legal to make deductions from wages that is the way of the s*it employer looking for equally s*it staff on the least they can pay.


Staff are the soul of any business. And Karl, I appreciate you are looking at this from a legal stance, but a legal stance isn't how you retain decent staff. It's give and take, and if a good employer gives then the staff don't " take" but give more. Win win.

I’m not going to debate the “Living Wage” here, but an 11% increase is a hefty sum for both an employer & an employee to pay/receive in a year.


But I don’t believe that “decent staff” are what AnneLou describes when she says:

Food/drink ordered by customers, inattention by staff results in customers leaving without paying.

Till being down at the end of the trading day.

Staff failing to add drinks or food to the till before the customer pays - resulting in losses at stocktake.


Like everyone else, we have had thieves!

These don’t sound like staff a retail business would want to retain.


Karl Limpert

 

[tony84]

I agree with the above, swipe of the card should remove the walk outs. Can you 100% blame the staff for that or are there times when they are very busy and struggle to keep on top?

Till being down is part and parcel in a busy pub (I used to own a pub).

Adding drinks/food to the tab, odd - is it not ordered through the till system? If not, then again if they are run off their feet keeping your customers happy can you 100% blame them for this? Its another sign that you may short on staff?

Im not sure what to suggest but its easy to blame the staff. I have been there and looked at how people work and felt like banging my head and then theirs against a brick wall. But sometimes you have to take a step back and look at whether it is your fault or theirs and be honest. Dont forget, to them its a job, to you its your business. They have a very different perspective.

Maybe look at your processes, some of the things you mention I do not think are entirely the employees fault. You will always get chancers and if the staff are running around its difficult for them to take orders, serve and keep an eye on everyone. You list some things going wrong and im sure with some changes you could cut down on the issues.

 

[Andrew Chambers]

I’m not going to debate the “Living Wage” here, but an 11% increase is a hefty sum for both an employer & an employee to pay/receive in a year.


But I don’t believe that “decent staff” are what AnneLou describes when she says:




These don’t sound like staff a retail business would want to retain.


Karl Limpert

My point is decent employers are already paying above the upcoming living wage. And they will be retaining the quality staff.

The OP, as you have pointed out, isn't getting these decent staff because she's paying as little as possible.

No it's not all about the hourly rate, it's a combination of factors, most of which won't come within the "legalities" of employment law.

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

My point is decent employers are already paying above the upcoming living wage. And they will be retaining the quality staff.

The OP, as you have pointed out, isn't getting these decent staff because she's paying as little as possible.

No it's not all about the hourly rate, it's a combination of factors, most of which won't come within the "legalities" of employment law.

And AnneLou needs to make a profit, sufficient to make a living too. Not every pub or hotel operates with margins that can allow for much above the minimum wage, which is what appears to have prompted this thread.

There are plenty of employers that don't pay the NMW, so giving themselves an advantage too - as little as possible, unlike the OP.

Many good employers actually pay only the NMW. Pay is not the only incentive to attracting or retaining decent staff.


Karl Limpert

 

[AnneLou]

Thank you Karl for your defence - you are very correct in your views of our operation! We are a small operator and I have been both a good employer and hard employer over the years - I can't say I've had success in either! My company used to pay above minimum, I used to pay bonus on company performance, then NMW caught up, the economy squeezed, blah, blah, blah - you've all heard it before!
At the end of the day, there are often a number of people attracted to work in this industry who would not be tolerated elsewhere. Certain roles in my company are "pass-through" whilst seeking a "proper" job - that's just the way it is and paying £10 per hour for good bar staff isn't going to change that, it's just going to bankrupt me! I have to work with what I've got.

I've worked stupidly busy shifts with my teams and had "walk-outs" which I shrug off as we were busy and it happens. The issues I'm having trouble with is when things are quiet and staff are pre-occupied with their social lives and the tills are down and the kitchen reports more meals made than the till reports! These are surely issues which other retailers have and I wanted some examples of how other companies handle this. When I've got really mad, I've held back the days tips to cover the loss but its only punishing staff who did no wrong!

 

[Andrew Chambers]

. When I've got really mad, I've held back the days tips to cover the loss but its only punishing staff who did no wrong!

There you go. Added to the end of a post as a throw away, but there all the same.

You've basically pissed off all the staff, good and bad, in one fell swoop. Not surprised you are having problems, and you even know it!

And don't blame the minimum wage, if you can't afford to pay it ("economy squeezed" or not) then your business isn't viable. We all have certain costs that have be paid, and if you can't make a profit with those costs included then it's time to move on.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Tips are very important here, both as a motivator and a reward. What. Is your policy on distributing tips - this can be critical

Truth is, as you say it is a largely transient job so any training and rewards need to be short focuses. As one public an put it 'the best you can hope for is they keep their hands out of the till and smile at the customer'

From experience, micro management is one of the biggest de motivators in the trade. Keep an overview whilst empowering staff.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Do your waiting staff have a responsibility for a set selection of tables if not that may help sort out who is not paying attention to those who chose to walk without paying, maybe better training on clearing up the tables as soon as customers have finished etc would also help

Video camera above till is a good deterant to see who pays and what money goes out just make it obvious

Most pubs now use touch screen tills which also helps

 

[Newchodge]

Can you move to an automated ordering system, or is that too expensive - if the staff enter the order onto a screen which is replicated in the kitchen and on the till the opportunity for mistakes is reduced, however I realise those systems can be expensive. And some staff are resistant to their use.

Other than that, I think it is really a matter of training and trying to weed out the non-performers.

 

[Shopclicks]

If you are unable to manage/train all of your staff yourself, it sounds like you need to start training team leaders / supervisors. Pay them a little extra and delegate some responsibility. You'll get that extra pay back with less mistakes and improved performance. It might also help you retain a couple of your more reliable / enthusiastic staff in the long term. If you pick the right people, you'll find your job gets a whole lot easier.

 

[AnneLou]

There you go. Added to the end of a post as a throw away, but there all the same.

You've basically pissed off all the staff, good and bad, in one fell swoop. Not surprised you are having problems, and you even know it!

And don't blame the minimum wage, if you can't afford to pay it ("economy squeezed" or not) then your business isn't viable. We all have certain costs that have be paid, and if you can't make a profit with those costs included then it's time to move on.

You don't know me or my business - it's been viable for over 11 years on tight margins and paid well into the economy. Muppets like you clearly think the high street should consist entirely of slickly-oiled multi-nationals who pay nothing into the economy but can afford (but choose not to) to pay higher wages! Who are you to dictate my business to be a failure simply because I asked a curious question about how other retailers deal with staff mistakes!

You have implied that my business is a rampant bed of despair and desperate staff! It's not! I just want to make sure my business keeps employing, keeps paying into the public purse and keeps supporting our local economy - what's so wrong with that? Why should I allow inept staff to make mistakes which càn cost my business?

And for the record, if my business fails, what do you think will happen to the recovering drug addict we employed when no one else would give him a chance after 5 years of unemployment? Or the failed teacher who couldn't cope in the classroom and hadn't been working for over a year and was claiming government sick pay before we tried her out and kept her in employment? Local businesses contribute far more to their communities than pompous prats like you could ever understand!

Now, stay off my post if you can't offer me some practical information appropriate to the request I made.

 

[Andrew Chambers]

You don't know me or my business - it's been viable for over 11 years on tight margins and paid well into the economy. Muppets like you clearly think the high street should consist entirely of slickly-oiled multi-nationals who pay nothing into the economy but can afford (but choose not to) to pay higher wages! Who are you to dictate my business to be a failure simply because I asked a curious question about how other retailers deal with staff mistakes!

You have implied that my business is a rampant bed of despair and desperate staff! It's not! I just want to make sure my business keeps employing, keeps paying into the public purse and keeps supporting our local economy - what's so wrong with that? Why should I allow inept staff to make mistakes which càn cost my business?

And for the record, if my business fails, what do you think will happen to the recovering drug addict we employed when no one else would give him a chance after 5 years of unemployment? Or the failed teacher who couldn't cope in the classroom and hadn't been working for over a year and was claiming government sick pay before we tried her out and kept her in employment? Local businesses contribute far more to their communities than pompous prats like you could ever understand!

Now, stay off my post if you can't offer me some practical information appropriate to the request I made.

Ok, practical advice. Don't ever withold the staffs tips. You WILL destroy your business with disgruntled staff offering second rate food and service because, after all, why should they bother if you keep the tips. So that's your staff fed up. Now your customers aren't coming back because of the lack of service and quality of food.

As others have said you need to put trust in a few good emoyees and give them responsibility for others.

Not sure why it's relevant to your op as to the type of people you employ?

Also not sure why the name calling just because I pointed out a flaw in your business? If you fly off the handle with your staff in the same way that could also be a big part of the problem. I've always found with staff that carrot is better than stick, and enthusiasm is infectious.

 

[AnneLou]

Tips are very important here, both as a motivator and a reward. What. Is your policy on distributing tips - this can be critical

Truth is, as you say it is a largely transient job so any training and rewards need to be short focuses. As one public an put it 'the best you can hope for is they keep their hands out of the till and smile at the customer'

From experience, micro management is one of the biggest de motivators in the trade. Keep an overview whilst empowering staff.

We don't normally involve ourselves in tips - they are fairly distributed between staff working each day. We've been operating 11 years and have only been driven on a few occasions to hold them back when I have been one hundred percent sure errors in the till have not been made by office staff (ie. Me!) The only problem is that we have never been formal in any procedure like that.

Here is an example of the issue I have:-

I arrived on one of my sites the other evening, two staff members both chatting, bar looking a bit grubby, no service taking place. Individually, both staff members are Ok - not great but Ok. I gave them jobs to do and they instantly got busy - looking a bit sheepish at being caught out by the boss. Later on, after close down, I did the tills. They were down. We have epos tills and can check what food was prepared through the kitchen. It didn't add up either and we can clearly see some accounts have been wiped and not paid. Even after 11 years of this business, I still have the ability to see the the best in people and so I don't think either of the staff have "stolen" anything. I just think they have been inept in not controlling the customers and making sure we get payment. I also suspect they have not paid attention to the stupidly expensive till system and possibly given wrong change - resulting in the till being down! Do I really want to sack these staff? They are a bit inept, not dishonest! They have already been trained, but the issue is that there are no real consequences to their actions. They can keep doing it because other than me sneaking up on them and shaming them, there is no comeback on them.

I want my business to survive the changes in our economy and for that we have to be leaner and meaner!

 

[Andrew Chambers]

We don't normally involve ourselves in tips - they are fairly distributed between staff working each day. We've been operating 11 years and have only been driven on a few occasions to hold them back when I have been one hundred percent sure errors in the till have not been made by office staff (ie. Me!) The only problem is that we have never been formal in any procedure like that.

Here is an example of the issue I have:-

I arrived on one of my sites the other evening, two staff members both chatting, bar looking a bit grubby, no service taking place. Individually, both staff members are Ok - not great but Ok. I gave them jobs to do and they instantly got busy - looking a bit sheepish at being caught out by the boss. Later on, after close down, I did the tills. They were down. We have epos tills and can check what food was prepared through the kitchen. It didn't add up either and we can clearly see some accounts have been wiped and not paid. Even after 11 years of this business, I still have the ability to see the the best in people and so I don't think either of the staff have "stolen" anything. I just think they have been inept in not controlling the customers and making sure we get payment. I also suspect they have not paid attention to the stupidly expensive till system and possibly given wrong change - resulting in the till being down! Do I really want to sack these staff? They are a bit inept, not dishonest! They have already been trained, but the issue is that there are no real consequences to their actions. They can keep doing it because other than me sneaking up on them and shaming them, there is no comeback on them.

I want my business to survive the changes in our economy and for that we have to be leaner and meaner!

That post sums up almost everything that is wrong with your business from management structure and housekeeping to staff training and motivation and everything in between.

I'll leave "your" thread now as you wouldn't constructive criticism and advice from a Muppet.

 

[Bradley Holmes]

If you have food orders getting to the kitchen but not getting put in the till consistently then there is a change you need to make in your processes, I´d sit down with your waitstaff and tell them there is a problem with the food ordering process and work out a process together for that one.

1. take order from customer
2. add it to till
3. take to kitchen

Or something like that, have each order tagged with the staff members name, so you can check up and track who is making the mistake and let them know.

If someone has wiped out a customers bill from the till, the action should have been tagged with the username of the staff member, Ask that member to explain what happened.

Do you allow staff to have their phones behind the bar?

 

[NathanJ]

Interesting thread. I used to work in the hospitality recruitment industry and often hear of these problems from independents.

One of your comments was interesting AnneLou. You get the feeling that a job at your property isn't 'proper'. There's that perception within the hospitality industry and it has to stop. I can categorically say that it's a nonsense (not a dig at you).

For people who decide against going to University for extra studies in their search for the ideal career, the hospitality industry can offer great opportunities for warm and friendly people who want to learn and develop their skills. Sure, it's long hours, but there are opportunities to become a General Manager or Operations Manager and achieve 40k - 60k within a matter of a few years. For people who have little desire to continue development through Uni, it's a good option.

I would really start to re-consider your approach to the recruitment aspect of your business. Only you know your brand and the type of staff who will fit into that 'identity', but I would highly recommend that you start thinking more about honing in on your staffs longer term aspirations. It's not a bad industry at all.

It would be naive to think that you'll keep staff for the next 5 years and they'll all be superstars, but actually, if you can get them to a stage where they're ready to progress within a national chain or major hotel chain, then it's job done. You get committed people for 12-18 months, they get a good future.

Build a plan to progress new starters, new pay scales and coach your guys through. Incentivise and make them feel valued. You should start seeing results within 1-3 months.

Good luck in 2016. I hope you sort these few problems, and if you'd like any further advice, feel free to drop me a PM. Although I'm not actively involved in recruitment right now, I can potentially point you in the right direction for training services and ad support for candidate attraction.

 

[AnneLou]

Do you allow staff to have their phones behind the bar?

No, phones are not allowed. Epos tills at one site are new and give pretty accurate info. Staff do not often attempt to wipe "walkouts" as they know we can easily tell. They are more inclined to leave a report to explain what happened and we accept that as just one of those things. The epos at the other site is not so clever but not very old either. Staff have discovered they can just wipe walkouts and we have to take time to check and track back. No consequences.

 

[AnneLou]

Thanks NathanJ - you got me with the recruiting! Its not my strong point. We have been very good at recruiting and retaining some roles long term. We have long-standing chefs and domestics. We try to look after them and they like the hours we can offer. We do also have some long-standing bar staff. Some of our past staff have come back to us when they realise that we're not so bad after all. Many of our employees are on their first job - naive and with few life skills!

Over the years, we have got a lot more professional with many aspects but it is hard keeping up with it all. I'm not educated in HR, Health and Safety or Marketing - I've had to learn as I go. Asking for advice when needed or simply by cocking up and picking up the pieces. Contrary to postings by other forum users, I refuse to believe that makes me a failure. I'm proud of the fact that my little company has provided employment and livelihoods for others.

I will try to bear in mind your advice about the perception of not being a proper job. I've got some meetings scheduled for after the New Year so I will ask our staff how they perceive their role.

 

[The Byre]

Can you move to an automated ordering system, or is that too expensive - if the staff enter the order onto a screen which is replicated in the kitchen and on the till the opportunity for mistakes is reduced, however I realise those systems can be expensive. And some staff are resistant to their use.

Other than that, I think it is really a matter of training and trying to weed out the non-performers.

This and only this!

If you are not running a modern and integrated system with POS tablets, registering table, sever, credit card details and sending these to the kitchen, then you are making a big mistake.

At the daily or weekly stock-take, you will see that you have sold 25 pork pies and that you had 40 in the cooler, but there are just five on the shelf, i.e. ten pork pies at £5 each or a staggering £50 walked out of the door! No staff can mess with each other's orders by binning or altering a ticket. The meals can be labelled and the server marks them as completed once served, so no more confusion over which table ordered the scampi, etc. and no more forgotten tables or bills.

It makes running scams like not running through the till, not booking an up-sell (counting straws!) having 'private' supplies brought in, running phantom till rolls and walk-outs that never walked in much, much more difficult.

And you can get these things either on rental or tied to a bank deal. They come in all shapes, sizes and prices, as software only, or with dedicated tablets, suitable for steamy kitchens and greasy fingers. Trying to run a restaurant without one today is just (to quote that great thinker, poet and philosopher Dizzy Rascal) 'Bonkers!'

Here's a list of 72 suppliers of turnkey EPoS systems - pick one! http://www.approvedindex.co.uk/epos-systems/companies

 

[Bradley Holmes]

Staff have discovered they can just wipe walkouts and we have to take time to check and track back. No consequences.

Well, that doesn´t really sound like a staff member is a little bit inept like you put it. It sounds like they are deliberately hiding things from you. If a customer walks out without paying that´s one thing, but if the server then goes in and tries to hide it then that server needs training.

 

[Opinion87]

In my line of business, stock and cash losses are an inevitable aspect. We do our best to minimise them with training etc. but I am interested in how other retail businesses deal with losses caused by staff failings.
As the new living wage kicks in next year, I don't think it is too much to expect staff to knuckle down more and I don't see why my business should keep paying for mistakes made by others.
I will give some examples - I operate a pub/hotel business:-
Food/drink ordered by customers, inattention by staff results in customers leaving without paying.
Till being down at the end of the trading day.
Staff failing to add drinks or food to the till before the customer pays - resulting in losses at stocktake.

I assume you monitor all your wastage and get correct accounting treatment? Line cleaning, tapping kegs, spill trays etc. all add up. I can't for a moment understand how staff can let a customer leave without paying- if my staff ever did this--let alone on a regular basis--they wouldn't be employed for much longer. Tills being down at the end of the day is usually just carelessness, but anything over £10.00 or anything that is a round number always gets checked. If you have a major problem with tills being down I would suggest explaining to the staff that their tips will be used to balance the tills at the end of the night.... I don't know the legality of that but I bet your tills wouldn't be short much longer.

Certain roles in my company are "pass-through" whilst seeking a "proper" job - that's just the way it is and paying £10 per hour for good bar staff isn't going to change that, it's just going to bankrupt me! I have to work with what I've got.

I think this is very, very wrong. Good bar staff are essential to, well, running a bar. As the saying goes, if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. I have bar staff on NMW and I have bar staff well above that- there's a noticeable difference in how much effort, attention and love they put in to their jobs.

The epos at the other site is not so clever but not very old either. Staff have discovered they can just wipe walkouts and we have to take time to check and track back. No consequences.

Can you not set up Void "Reasons" on your EPOS? Any Voids on our tills bring up a menu and staff have to choose, ie. "Price Check", "Wrong Item" etc. You can quickly spot if people need more training, if they're opening the till more often than they should be and so on. We're wet only so I have no idea if/how that would work with food.

 

[Mark T Jones]

To focus on staff engagement I think some of the advice on here is too 'big picture' for bar/waiting staff

Consider setting some small, basic guidelines (rules) just examples

When there are no customers, there is always something to do
Staff don't congregate to chat - they can talk along the bar but not in groups
When customers are at the bar, if they are alone, talk to them, if they are in groups, face them with bottom against the back counter
Always make eye contact - even if you are serving - by the time they reach the bar

Just ideas, but you get my drift

 

[japancool]

@AnneLou, you say you caught the two staff being idle when you arrived on site. So my question to you is, was there an on-site supervisor for times when you are not there, and if so, what was he/she doing?

 

[Mr A P Davies]

Have you got a long term member of staff, who you trust?
How do you get on with them?

I've never worked in a bar, I have worked in various different gangs, in different jobs.
One guy in particular, still to this day cannot work out why he never made any money. (He's now retired)
Amongst the 20 or so others, He had three right hand men, well paid, been with him over 15 years. One would turn up so drunk he could hardly move, one would do very little after lunch, and not much more in the morning, the other one would spend most the day on the phone, and smoking dope. No one could stand the sight of them.

These were the ones who imposed his will on site.

He thought the world of them.
They made him feel good.
Yes Boss, right away Boss, nothing to much trouble Boss, can I shine your boots for you Boss......
He loved it, wouldn't hear a bad word said against them, and they robbed him blind for years.

He could have asked me what the problem was, but he wouldn't have listened if I told him, because he was so wrapped up in his own legend, and they massaged his ego for him.

 

[Andrew Chambers]

Have you got a long term member of staff, who you trust?
How do you get on with them?

I've never worked in a bar, I have worked in various different gangs, in different jobs.
One guy in particular, still to this day cannot work out why he never made any money. (He's now retired)
Amongst the 20 or so others, He had three right hand men, well paid, been with him over 15 years. One would turn up so drunk he could hardly move, one would do very little after lunch, and not much more in the morning, the other one would spend most the day on the phone, and smoking dope. No one could stand the sight of them.

These were the ones who imposed his will on site.

He thought the world of them.
They made him feel good.
Yes Boss, right away Boss, nothing to much trouble Boss, can I shine your boots for you Boss......
He loved it, wouldn't hear a bad word said against them, and they robbed him blind for years.

He could have asked me what the problem was, but he wouldn't have listened if I told him, because he was so wrapped up in his own legend, and they massaged his ego for him.

Exactly, blaming your staff, yet singing their
praise's at the same time is ignoring your own failings. End off.

But that's a negative comment, apparently, no matter how true.

 

[sirearl]

And AnneLou needs to make a profit, sufficient to make a living too. Not every pub or hotel operates with margins that can allow for much above the minimum wage,

Maybe these types of business should not exist.?

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

And AnneLou needs to make a profit, sufficient to make a living too. Not every pub or hotel operates with margins that can allow for much above the minimum wage,

Maybe these types of business should not exist.?

Really Earl? You don't think a business that provides a living to owners/shareholders & its employees shouldn't exist. Should they be regulated out of existence? Please explain why? What do you want instead, state-controlled/owned everything?



Karl Limpert

 

[Andrew Chambers]

Really Earl? You don't think a business that provides a living to owners/shareholders & its employees shouldn't exist. Should they be regulated out of existence? Please explain why? What do you want instead, state-controlled/owned everything?



Karl Limpert

Well I presumed Earl meant that these type's of businesses should be run far more efficiently/effectively so that staff could be paid above the minimum wage and wouldn't need to have their fingers in the till (which, let's face it, is happenig here, just seems that no one wants to say it). That would be far more beneficial to the owners/shareholders and employee's. After eleven years the business shouldn't still be having the problems mentioned on this thread, or at least not to the extent it's a major problem that the owners don't know how to minimise.

 

[MOIC]

The OP needs a manager in each establishment and a software program to eliminate the discrepancies.

The software order/management system will pay for itself within a year or two.

Not to have either, in this kind of business, is simply asking for trouble.

The idea that opening/running a business to keep people employed and contribute to the economy, is quite frankly, nonsense.

If a business cannot sustain itself and make a profit, it should close.

Have a great 2016!