No One Dies Because of Old Age
- Thread starter Swisaw
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- Original Poster
- #5
What do you know about human biology? I don't think you know better or more than me. At least I use the arguement of one of the famous doctor in America to support my case? You have not shown anything to support your case.
This is a free platform to discuss any subject and this subject doesn't harm anything. So why are you asking for first aid from moderator?
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Quite right. The subject doesn't harm anyone and might confirm the title.
We won't die of old age because we will be bored to death first.
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I read it and was taken with this paragraph, particularly the bit I've highlighted in bold:
"Peal an apple and leave it for a while. You will see it gradually becoming reddish. This is oxidisation. The apple has rusted; loaded with free radicals. As a rule of thumb, old food, foods exposed to air for long time, butter, margerine, oil including olive oil, fried food, cut food like peeled and cut carrots in bags are all oxidised food and the worst of all of them is oil and fried food. I still use extra vergin olive oil because it it is full of antioxidant. I don't let it become oxidised further. I buy it in small plastic bottles. Whenever I use some of it, I don't let air goes inside the bottle. I squeeze the bottle to get rid of the air, after that I put back the cover. |I buy my fresh fruit and vegetable at places with high turnover and I don't buy a lot. This ensures they are fresh and consumed in few days without becoming old and oxidised."
Swisaw - what do you think is taking up the 'empty' space in the bottle after you have squeezed it, a vacuum?
John
and was taken with this paragraph, particularly the bit I've highlighted in bold:"Peal an apple and leave it for a while. You will see it gradually becoming reddish. This is oxidisation. The apple has rusted; loaded with free radicals. As a rule of thumb, old food, foods exposed to air for long time, butter, margerine, oil including olive oil, fried food, cut food like peeled and cut carrots in bags are all oxidised food and the worst of all of them is oil and fried food. I still use extra vergin olive oil because it it is full of antioxidant. I don't let it become oxidised further. I buy it in small plastic bottles. Whenever I use some of it, I don't let air goes inside the bottle. I squeeze the bottle to get rid of the air, after that I put back the cover. |I buy my fresh fruit and vegetable at places with high turnover and I don't buy a lot. This ensures they are fresh and consumed in few days without becoming old and oxidised."
Swisaw - what do you think is taking up the 'empty' space in the bottle after you have squeezed it, a vacuum?
John
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Not read any of it, but what "empty space" are you talking about?
If you squeeze the bottle, until what ever is in it reaches the brim and put the top back on, their is no empty space.
Think of it as a toothpaste tube, you roll from the bottom and there is never any empty space.
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E
Excel Expert
It would seem that the Dr is very light on proof himself. From his Wikipedia page.
Shinya is also known for his claims about health benefits of enzyme supplementation. However, some of his claims in commercial advertisements have been criticized as deceptive.
Shinya has authored many books, of which the most well-known, Living without Disease: A Miracle Enzyme Determines Life is said to have sold more than a million copies in Japan.
In advertisements, Shinya has recommended taking enzymes from consumed food. There he cites a medical paper that reports a decrease in the secretion quantity of three kinds of digestive enzyme (and bicarbonate) from the pancreas. The article speculates that this is due to aging, and does not discuss intake of nutrients, so it is irrelevant to his claim. He also says[2] that in recent years vegetables are poorer sources of nutrients, and that it is difficult to obtain sufficient enzymes from consumed food alone. His evidence for this is a chart based on references for 1963 and 2008 which shows values of beta-carotene, vitamin C and iron found in spinach and carrot, from which he appears to infer a comparable enzyme deficit in all vegetable food sources.
He claims that his prescription of [Kangen®] water has 0% cancer recurrence rate without clinical data or independent corroboration.
So what we have is a retired doctor, who has become million selling author with a vested interest in selling books but not in producing scientific proof. I did a quick Google of his name and the only people really talking about him are basically bloggers. The words "theory" and "believes" comes up time and time again but not mention of evidence or practical/scientific studies. Which all makes me think, as such a highly regarded surgeon in Japan, why has the Japanese government, medical bodies or universities jumped on the opportunity to prove it
Shinya is also known for his claims about health benefits of enzyme supplementation. However, some of his claims in commercial advertisements have been criticized as deceptive.
Shinya has authored many books, of which the most well-known, Living without Disease: A Miracle Enzyme Determines Life is said to have sold more than a million copies in Japan.
In advertisements, Shinya has recommended taking enzymes from consumed food. There he cites a medical paper that reports a decrease in the secretion quantity of three kinds of digestive enzyme (and bicarbonate) from the pancreas. The article speculates that this is due to aging, and does not discuss intake of nutrients, so it is irrelevant to his claim. He also says[2] that in recent years vegetables are poorer sources of nutrients, and that it is difficult to obtain sufficient enzymes from consumed food alone. His evidence for this is a chart based on references for 1963 and 2008 which shows values of beta-carotene, vitamin C and iron found in spinach and carrot, from which he appears to infer a comparable enzyme deficit in all vegetable food sources.
He claims that his prescription of [Kangen®] water has 0% cancer recurrence rate without clinical data or independent corroboration.
So what we have is a retired doctor, who has become million selling author with a vested interest in selling books but not in producing scientific proof. I did a quick Google of his name and the only people really talking about him are basically bloggers. The words "theory" and "believes" comes up time and time again but not mention of evidence or practical/scientific studies. Which all makes me think, as such a highly regarded surgeon in Japan, why has the Japanese government, medical bodies or universities jumped on the opportunity to prove it
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And if you are using disposable plastic bottles for your drinking water you are absorbing chemicals from the plastic. Which is why they are only reccomended as single use items.
Swissaw, your knowledge of the human body is woefully lacking. People don't die because of their diet, they die because of telomeres in chromosomes.
Swissaw, your knowledge of the human body is woefully lacking. People don't die because of their diet, they die because of telomeres in chromosomes.
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Unless it's a type of bottle I've not come across before, plastic bottles tend to try to regain their original shape once you stop squeezing and it's even harder with a glass bottle
John
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Unless it's a type of bottle I've not come across before, plastic bottles tend to try to regain their original shape once you stop squeezing and it's even harder with a glass bottle
John
I think you should try it, then come back to this thread. Nature doesn't like vacuums.
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Not sure what you mean? The bottle, obviously, can never have a vacuum in so that space would be filled with air would it not?
John
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- Original Poster
- #23
It should be like that on the basis of a simple common sense. But many independent researches have confirmed about the possibility of an endless life span. Apparently free radicals cause us to age on the long term. Gradually the aging weakens our body and our immune system stops. After thar we die. So it seems it has nothing to do with our gens. So if we some how control free radicals we could live very long and remain young always.
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- Original Poster
- #25
But for metabolic process to take place correctly, you need oxygen, some thing you can not do any thing about. It is a a fact the more oxygen you inhale, the healthier you become because your body functions better to produce enzymes especially immune enzymes to neutralise metabolic byproducts like free radicals.
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That is complete bollox. I don't know where you get this research but it's a lot of twaddle. Everything you state is hearsay and cod medicine.
I didn't even mention genes - I said telomeres on your chromosomes. Genes =/= Chromosomes.
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E
Excel Expert
The other problem with the free radical theory is that we need free radicals in order to live. Another wiki quote
"Free radicals play an important role in a number of biological processes. Many of these are necessary for life, such as the intracellular killing of bacteria by phagocytic cells such as granulocytes and macrophages. Researchers have also implicated free radicals in certain cell signalling processes,[6] known as redox signaling."
Then there is the fact that we also breath in free radicals that are in our atmosphere.
Removing free radicals from our diets and bodies is impossible and would be as harmful if we could achieve it.
"Free radicals play an important role in a number of biological processes. Many of these are necessary for life, such as the intracellular killing of bacteria by phagocytic cells such as granulocytes and macrophages. Researchers have also implicated free radicals in certain cell signalling processes,[6] known as redox signaling."
Then there is the fact that we also breath in free radicals that are in our atmosphere.
Removing free radicals from our diets and bodies is impossible and would be as harmful if we could achieve it.
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- Original Poster
- #30
Prove it!!! I don't know anything about this but I depend on expert openion. Dr H Shinya clearly states because of deep breathing like abdominal breathing more oxygen goes into our blood. This causes our temperature to rise. A body with a higher temperature can generate more and better quality enzymes including immune enzymes, which lead to a healthier state.
I have seen this from my experience. Last week I had a severe sore throat and was planning to go to emergency service of Newham Universtiy. It was early morning and I was reading 'The enzyme factor 2' of Dr H Shinya. I came across the advice of abdominal breathing. After that I started exercising abdominal breathing. It didn't take too long I felt my throat was healing. Later I forgot sore throat and going to hospital. How do you explain that?
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E
Excel Expert
And that is proof? Come on Swisaw you will really need to provide real evidence - a sore throat that comes and goes is neither here or nor. You don't even know what caused your sore throat let alone why it went away. Perhaps breathing differently has the same effect that people have when breathing in to paper bags to stop panic attacks - it does nothing medically but provides a placebo effect that calms them down. I have to say you seem to be in a hurry to accept these alternative theories and that I believe is resulting you suffering placebo effects which you are taking as further proof.
According to the Wikipedia page this is nothing more than a theory, with zero studies carried out and only anecdotal chart based research as any kind of proof.
This theory has come from a top flight medic in Japan who used to treat top level politicians and royalty (according his Wikipedia page). This is advice that pharmaceutical companies, universities, scientists and governments listen to right around the world - yet not one of them is acting upon it or even researching it further, despite it being free knowledge in the public domain. That tells us a lot more than you changing your breathing patterns and stopping a sore throat.
Have you also not noticed that the only people pushing this professionally are those that make money doing so. First of all we have the doctor himself who has a million selling book to sell (he seems to put lots of work in to selling that compared to his efforts to prove things). Then we have alternative health shop type websites selling related products and these are followed up by bloggers selling advertising space to the above.
According to the Wikipedia page this is nothing more than a theory, with zero studies carried out and only anecdotal chart based research as any kind of proof.
This theory has come from a top flight medic in Japan who used to treat top level politicians and royalty (according his Wikipedia page). This is advice that pharmaceutical companies, universities, scientists and governments listen to right around the world - yet not one of them is acting upon it or even researching it further, despite it being free knowledge in the public domain. That tells us a lot more than you changing your breathing patterns and stopping a sore throat.
Have you also not noticed that the only people pushing this professionally are those that make money doing so. First of all we have the doctor himself who has a million selling book to sell (he seems to put lots of work in to selling that compared to his efforts to prove things). Then we have alternative health shop type websites selling related products and these are followed up by bloggers selling advertising space to the above.
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- Original Poster
- #32
Where you got yours? I don't know about your telomeres or chromosons or genes. But there has been a lot of researches proved free radicals causing aging. Once I saw a tv program about two persons under test to see how free radicals affects their body. One of them was only eating an apple a day and the other was dieting normallly. At the end of the test the one living normally found out aged longer than the other. But the other was suffering from malnutrition.
According to Dr H Shinya eating too much frish fruits and vegetables helps your body to generate a lot of good quality enzymes, which help to neutralise free radicals to protect aging. Before that I saw a tv news about if you eat too much fresh fruit and vegetable you shouldn't die. It was expressed boldly like that but they didn't say way. Obviously that research confirmed Dr H Shinya claim.
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I don't have to prove it: you were the one who said it was a fact. It is not a fact. It is stupid drivel which you should be able to see past as you are, after all, an adult and not a child who believes in fairies and any old fantasy "an expert" tells you. Aren't you?
You link the most ludicrous elements in some vain hope of magic which you are also too old for. Your "expert", Dr Shinya has been shown to be a charlatan and a fraud, something which someone with only rudimentary medical knowledge would see in an instant. Why don't you read some real science instead of this cobblers about enzymes, or as it was last time around, a perpetual motion machine. (How is that going by the way? Still being hidden by the CIA, or alien lizards dressed as the Royal Family? No, don't tell me. Please.)
Why your throat got better will almost certainly be explainable by simple medicine, not by some soft brained vodoo from deep in the bowels* of Idiotville.
*Booga. Here comes Dr Shinya and his merry enzymes again.
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In which you need to do some reading. We die because of cell death - where we are unable to create new cells (which is what happens throughout our lives).
Whilst there has been much research on the effects of free-radicals on aging, eliminating free radicals from your diet will result if an early death. What you can do is increase you intake of anti-oxidants to help counter the effects of excess free-radicals.
Once you have an understanding of how the cell works (in particular mitochondria and rDNA) then you will see the flaws in your hypothesis.
A bit like trying to put arrestor hooks on a 747.
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- Original Poster
- #35
Well, it doesn't harm me if I apply his ideas for a while. I believe I have already benefited fromk his ideas. Now because I chew my food a lot, as he advises, I have noticed intestinal improvement quicker than his claim. He claims chewing your food alot continually leads your stomuch to stop creating stingy gases after 6 months. I noticed this improvement soon I started chewing my food.
He claims drinking ionised water is very useful. Since I got my water ioniser my blood prressure has changed to ideal pressure, to under 120.
Now I eat brown rice and steamed vegetables. that is his advice also. if you do online search you will see brown rice is very nutritious. Steamed vegetable is a lot tastier than boiled one and quicker and cheaper to cook. You need just a little water. After puting the fire one, the vegs ready in five minutes. I think I have already recovered the cost of his books from the use of gas for my cooking.
Well I have not lost anything but got few good things. That is not bad.
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E
Excel Expert
Statistically comparing one persons diet against another's would not prove a single thing other than maybe things about those two individuals, so the apple v's non apple diet comparison does not mean a thing in the context of that TV show.
It is impossible to get rid of free radicals. We breathe in 11,000 litres of air a day and our air contains free radicals (both from natural sources and pollution). Unless we filter our air supply you are only stopping a percentage of the free radicals you consume in a day. (Changing your breathing patterns will do nothing to change that at all).
Then there is also the fact that we actually need free radicals in our systems. Or the fact that free radicals are generated during exercise. I would suggest the chances of you reducing the amount of free radicals in your body is next to zero.
The side effect of all this is that you are being more selective about what you are putting in your body. It is higher fibre, more nutritional, better vitamin content etc - all of which makes you feel better because you are eating more healthily.
It is impossible to get rid of free radicals. We breathe in 11,000 litres of air a day and our air contains free radicals (both from natural sources and pollution). Unless we filter our air supply you are only stopping a percentage of the free radicals you consume in a day. (Changing your breathing patterns will do nothing to change that at all).
Then there is also the fact that we actually need free radicals in our systems. Or the fact that free radicals are generated during exercise. I would suggest the chances of you reducing the amount of free radicals in your body is next to zero.
The side effect of all this is that you are being more selective about what you are putting in your body. It is higher fibre, more nutritional, better vitamin content etc - all of which makes you feel better because you are eating more healthily.
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#
What you have actually discovered is that deep breathing is a natural pain relief. Your throat stopped bothering you because you calmed down and relaxed. I have given birth to two babies using nothing but proper breathing as pain relief and I can vouch that it works. It does not cure your sore throat though.
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- Original Poster
- #38
Free radicals entering our body by breathing is negligible when compared with the huge amounts of free radicals generated inside our body. Each cells of our body generates free radicals 24 hours as metabolic byproduct. So it is impossible to make our body free from free radicals. This is the first time I hear that free radicals have benefits. I did some online search but couldn't find any. But I find the following from the link underneath it:
http://bsherman.net/freeradicals.htm
Anyway it is impossible for us to have a body free from free radicals but we can stop free radicals cause damages by a healthy diet, moderate physical activity and drinking a lot of water.
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- Original Poster
- #39
So what is the difference between pain relief and cure? I could say now that my throat completely cured. Before some times I woke up from sleep because of the pain. So I had to do abdominal nose deep breathing to control it. Apparently ubdominal nose breathing is an important retual of yoga exercise as my son informed me when I brought it to his attention.
But why deep abdominal nose breathing calms and relaxes? there must be an explanation. The only explanation available is the one given by Dr H Shinya. You get rid of a lot of co2 and get a lot of oxegyn in your blood stream. This increases metabolic activity, which increases body temperature. A higher body temperature produces more and higher quality enzymes including immune enzymes. Too much high quality enzymes in your body makes your body healthier, which causes calming and relaxing.
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What is the difference between pain relief and cure?! When you have pain relief you stop hurting but you still have a condition. When you have a cure you don't have the condition any more. (I thought that was obvious.....?)
As far as I am aware nobody is 100% certain why deep breathing helps pain relief, and some think it is a psychological reaction rather than physiological. This might be interesting. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19487995
If you are genuinely interested in this topic, I would recommend you get hold of a book called "Bad Science" by Ben Goldacre before you do anymore reading on the internet or watch any more TV programs. It teaches you how to understand when pseudo scientists are talking BS. One of the best books I have read in my life.
As far as I am aware nobody is 100% certain why deep breathing helps pain relief, and some think it is a psychological reaction rather than physiological. This might be interesting. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19487995
If you are genuinely interested in this topic, I would recommend you get hold of a book called "Bad Science" by Ben Goldacre before you do anymore reading on the internet or watch any more TV programs. It teaches you how to understand when pseudo scientists are talking BS. One of the best books I have read in my life.
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