Save me from SEO Hell...

paul1984

Free Member
Sep 24, 2014
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Hi, I am trying to get some advice and recommendations for any good SEO companies that you all have come across/use.
My company esafes.co.uk have been trading for over 6 years and finding a good SEO company is proving tricky. Some companies claim you need to focus on content, others say you need links but not bad links-good links.
My head is spinning and it seems like a pretty unregulated industry and it's hard to know what to believe.
Any advice or recommendations would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
 
N

Ninja Commerce

Hi Paul.

You're right, one of the hardest things about SEO is that there is so much information to take in and it is hard to know what to do.

I will try to give you some straightforward advice though:

Firstly, there is no simple "you should do X", because SEO involves a lot of stuff, links and content are included in that.

You are certainly correct that you need good links, but building good links is hard, and you really need to focus on earning them, which is where the content thing comes in. In many ways this aspect of SEO is a lot like PR.

Essentially, 90% of your SEO effort should focus on making your website better for your target audience. Either by improving user experience or by creating content that is helpful, worthwhile, enjoyable for your audience.

If your site is relatively new, you also need to focus on driving traffic to it. This is where link building can come into play, but I personally prefer to focus on link building as a way to bring in traffic and build a brand - and NOT just building links for SEO.

When looking for an SEO company, ask them what they would do for your website. Their answer should be transparent and it should be obvious how each task will either:

Help people to find your site
Help people to enjoy your site
Help search engines to crawl your site

As a rule of thumb...
Hope that helps.
 
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StevePoster

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  • Nov 29, 2013
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    Some companies claim you need to focus on content, others say you need links but not bad links-good links.
    My head is spinning and it seems like a pretty unregulated industry and it's hard to know what to believe.
    "focus on content" - not as easy as that, you need to have an in-depth understanding to your targeted audience to be able to create an engaging content for them. :rolleyes:
    "others say you need links but not bad links-good links" - You don't have to build links to look natural because your engaging content is more than enough to provide quality links for you. ;)
     
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    S

    SamApplegate

    Hi Paul.

    ThinkTraffic is spot on.

    There are lots of old-school SEOs out there that focus on low-level tasks like building links and creating content with a certain keyword density. In 2014 this isn't the best way to approach SEO.

    Take a step back for a moment and think more like a traditional marketeer. What makes your product/service unique? Why should your website rank above your competitors?

    I once had a friend that wanted to rank on the first page with his holiday lettings company. He was frustrated because no matter how many links he built, or blog posts he wrote, Google wasn't ranking him at the top.

    There was a reason for this - his website simply wasn't as good as his competitors. They listed far more properties (100's compared to his 10 or so listings), they also provided much more information on each property including panoramic images of the apartments.

    If I was searching for "holiday lets in Malta", I know which website I'd prefer to visit, and Google knows this.

    Old-school SEO is dead, long live creativity. All you need to do is justify that #1 spot and Google will find you (and other people will naturally link to you).
     
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    Hi, I am trying to get some advice and recommendations for any good SEO companies that you all have come across/use.
    My company esafes.co.uk have been trading for over 6 years and finding a good SEO company is proving tricky. Some companies claim you need to focus on content, others say you need links but not bad links-good links.
    My head is spinning and it seems like a pretty unregulated industry and it's hard to know what to believe.
    Any advice or recommendations would be greatly appreciated!
    Thanks,
    Don't go seeking recommendations from strangers on a forum...!
    I don't know for sure, but I suspect there's a service on fiver offering to do such recommendations.. :p
    Look for business owners in your local community who rank well and find out who they're using. Get at least three providers to give you proposals.
    Be prepared. Know who your customers are and what you're trying to achieve.
    Ensure you have an idea of how you will measure success. If you're unsure, then ask your SEO and ensure you understand the answer! You should be looking for ROI metrics rather than cost/number of backlinks/number of articles or suchlike.
     
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    directmarketingadvice

    Free Member
    Aug 2, 2005
    10,880
    3,527
    My head is spinning and it seems like a pretty unregulated industry and it's hard to know what to believe.
    Any advice or recommendations would be greatly appreciated!
    Thanks,

    Advice? Forget about SEO.

    It's clear you don't have the ability to tell a good SEO from a bad one.

    That's not a criticism, because it's opaque, unless you know SEO, it's incredibly difficult to tell who is good.

    Unfortunately, these days Google punishes bad SEO - rather than just ignoring it - so there's a price to hiring the wrong person.

    So, as I said, forget about SEO. There are plenty of other ways to promote your business.

    Steve
     
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    positivesparks

    Free Member
    Jul 25, 2014
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    Truro
    Hi Paul, I'd say look to work with someone who has an overall plan for growing your business online. I am a web marketing soul who believes SEO is less powerful than it was 2/3 years ago, because of the way our organic results pages have changed. For example, I can see that you have some good page 1 rankings for some relevant keywords, I can also see that you get less traffic from your organic rankings than you did back towards the end of 2012? This I'm guessing isn't all down to loss of rankings, but also down to there simply being more ads on the results pages for some of your highly commercial keywords - ads push the organic rankings further down, which in turn means you can have the same organic ranking you did 3 years ago but actually get less traffic from it today than yesterday.
    I'd say you need a plan that's going to grow your business online, not just enhance your organic rankings because that might not give you the commercial result you are after!
    As a couple of clever people have mentioned above, I think you do need to look at content marketing - which can both help your organic traffic and help to build your social traffic too.
    I have some quick data grabs I did on your site that you might like to see? These will help you look at where you are so, then anyone you speak to re SEO or anything else you will do so with some key facts about your business on line in hand - PM me if you would like these. Good luck with it all!
     
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    Content is the king, backlinks are the citizens.
    Good king+good citizens+more citizens = Prosperous / Thriving Kingdom.
    Good king, bad citizens = Required social reforms.
    Bad king, good citizens = Non-allocation of resources

    Content is what drives and directs your campaign. Backlinks fuel it's longevity.
     
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    Content is the king, backlinks are the citizens.
    Good king+good citizens+more citizens = Prosperous / Thriving Kingdom.
    Good king, bad citizens = Required social reforms.
    Bad king, good citizens = Non-allocation of resources

    Content is what drives and directs your campaign. Backlinks fuel it's longevity.

    Rubbish the web is a democracy not a dictatorship.

    Content is king is the old wives tale today.
     
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    Agreed you need a good SEO to tell a good SEO.

    Figuring out a good SEO is the easiest thing, however common sense is required.

    Go to google. Type in "SEO service providers" or similar keywords that are generic to this niche. You have your list of good service providers with proven past performance on the first page. :)

    Wanna find a service provider local to your region.... use common sense. :)
     
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    Figuring out a good SEO is the easiest thing, however common sense is required.

    Go to google. Type in "SEO service providers" or similar keywords that are generic to this niche. You have your list of good service providers with proven past performance on the first page. :)

    And where do you think the "SEO service providers" that you mention get the budget required to rank page 1 for these trophy phrases........?:p
     
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    And where do you think the "SEO service providers" that you mention get the budget required to rank page 1 for these trophy phrases........?:p

    See, you answered the question yourself.

    1. I would want to work with a financially stable company as compared to a broke freelancer working from home.
    2. Premium services are always expensive. If you want your SEO provider to rank you for competitive keywords working at $250 USD / month, I'm sorry but eventually you'll end up feeling cheated or writing a bad review on BBB.
     
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    2. Premium services are always expensive. If you want your SEO provider to rank you for competitive keywords working at $250 USD / month, I'm sorry but eventually you'll end up feeling cheated or writing a bad review on BBB.
    You mean two peanuts and a banana won't cut it. Geesh... I remember the good ol' days...
     
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    ronnie7272

    Free Member
    Aug 28, 2010
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    My head is spinning and it seems like a pretty unregulated industry and it's hard to know what to believe.
    Any advice or recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

    Ask the SEO companies if you can speak to their clients. Make sure you can speak to a range of clients from low budget/low competitive keyphrases to high budget/high competitive keyphrases. What's most important is not where they are ranking today but find out their history of ranking over the years. You don't really need to worry about issues such as content or link building, all you need to know is whether they produce results.

    An alternative is to contact the website owner or the marketing department of a site or sites which rank well for a competitive keyphrase (doesn't have to relate to your business) and ask them if they recommend their SEO supplier.
     
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    fisicx

    Moderator
    Sep 12, 2006
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    I'm sorry but eventually you'll end up feeling cheated or writing a bad review on BBB.
    Which since nobody in the UK gives a toss about the BBB this isn't really something to worry about.
     
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    See, you answered the question yourself.

    1. I would want to work with a financially stable company as compared to a broke freelancer working from home.
    2. Premium services are always expensive. If you want your SEO provider to rank you for competitive keywords working at $250 USD / month, I'm sorry but eventually you'll end up feeling cheated or writing a bad review on BBB.


    1. I'm not sure I follow your logic, and just because someone is freelance doesn't necessarily mean that they're broke?

    2. Personally, I prefer to work with people who deliver a good service for a fair price, and paying a premium price (to most likely cover the cost of them ranking for their SEO trophy phrases) is actually no guarantee of anything.

    Here's an example of one of those 'premium services' that you mention, based on the SERPs for 'seo service providers' in google.co.uk

    #1 - hxxp://payonresultscompany.co.uk/

    Quality stuff, huh?
     
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    splinterteal

    Free Member
    Jan 7, 2014
    15
    2
    London
    just google SEO consultant... some of them are pretty good but quite expensive... thing about SEO is that it's extremely hard to find somebody that's pretty good and cheap at the same time.... i personally know SEO in & out, been working in top agency and currently doing freelance and I know only 2 guys that are at my level and they're quite expensive (we're talking agency prices)...

    easiest way to find out somebody that's good - find out who does SEO for top competitors, do some research and call em up
     
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    splinterteal

    Free Member
    Jan 7, 2014
    15
    2
    London
    So you think its a good idea to use a competitors SEO.:):):)
    let me put it this way - I had 1 client, did very good job (achieved great, long term rankings)... since then I've done SEO for 6 more competitors within the same industry

    so yeah think it's a great idea to use competitors SEO, although it might cause some issues but usually money talks :)
     
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    splinterteal

    Free Member
    Jan 7, 2014
    15
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    London
    this particular one: london plumber (currently #2, pimlico plumbers is #1) but it wasn't even the main keyword ... also there's 2nd client of mine on the same page .... each industry is slightly different as far SEO goes so you have to approach it differently ... one of the reasons I love SEO
     
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    tombuckland

    Free Member
    Jul 29, 2014
    254
    21
    Cardiff
    Saying looking for an SEO company on this sub forum is dangerous.

    I would recommend looking to work with someone local, type in "SEO city" and see who comes up. In my personal area I trust the first 3 results that appear, I would also recommend working with an individual and not an agency. Another point to the local aspect is you can personally meet up with them then, if they give off bad vibes or are "too busy" to meet you, then you know you need to run and hide.
     
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    thing about SEO is that it's extremely hard to find somebody that's pretty good and cheap at the same time....

    "You know we're sitting on four million pounds of fuel, one nuclear weapon and a thing that has 270,000 moving parts built by the lowest bidder. Makes you feel good, doesn't it?"
    From the movie "Armageddon"

    "too busy" to meet you, then you know you need to run and hide.
    I would have thought the SEO who is "too busy" would be the one you want to meet...!

    Of course the guy you really want is the guy who makes his living from his own sites. But then, such a guy is unlikely to work for a few peanuts and a banana...
     
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    RealEcon

    Free Member
    Aug 29, 2014
    117
    23
    #1 Add a blog to your website. (If no website, create business style site, with blog attached)

    #2 Start to add your own "original" helpful articles, videos, pics etc. to the blog.

    #3 Signup to one of these retargeting companies and add their retarget tag to your site/blogs footer:
    • AdRoll
    • Retargeter
    • Fetchback
    • Chango
    • Perfect Audience
    Create some nice display ads and upload them to your account and activate your ads.

    #4 Create a Facebook page and post your new helpful blog posts on the FB page. Then do an FB paid promotion for that post, and target all your potenial customers on FB. They will click on your paid post which will take them to your blog/site, they will get a retarget cookie placed in their browser, so you can start to show them your display adds everywhere they go around the internet. And they will likely sub to your FB page and push like/share buttons on your blog post which will bring more traffic from their friends, that will do the same creating a nice feedback loop.

    (All of this really doesnt take long once the original blog article or content is created.)

    #5 Go find industry blogs and forums and add your link to the sigs/name fields and start engaging people.

    #6 After you have written your blog post/content, write two more engaging articles add a link (within the articles) to your website or blog, then go talk to people with websites within your niche and ask if you can "guest post" on their website. (You get to promote yourself, while getting a contextual backlink back to your website/content)

    So what have you done here?

    You have created a system where you do not have to rely on SEO 100% for traffic, while at the same time you are systematically building honest clean backlinks that not only pass juice, they bring traffic and make you look good since they should be branded with your avatar showing on blogs, forums, and guest posts!

    Its not as hard as many make it out to be. You just have to setup your system and stick to it, the positive feedback loop will start, and things will really start moving along nicely:)

    Or you can go to blackhatworld and buy "private blog net" links and automated dead spam links and see how fast your site gets penalized upon the next Penguin refresh...
     
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    tombuckland

    Free Member
    Jul 29, 2014
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    Or you can go to blackhatworld and buy "private blog net" links and automated dead spam links and see how fast your site gets penalized upon the next Penguin refresh...

    Lol.

    But this:

    then go talk to people with websites within your niche and ask if you can "guest post" on their website. (You get to promote yourself, while getting a contextual backlink back to your website/content)

    So what have you done here?

    You have created a system where you do not have to rely on SEO 100% for traffic, while at the same time you are systematically building honest clean backlinks that not only pass juice, they bring traffic and make you look good since they should be branded with your avatar showing on blogs, forums, and guest posts!

    Doesn't happen in the real world. Just because someone in the industry writes a few good blogs posts doesn't mean other people are going to let him guest post on their sites....Forums I could agree with you on for traffic. But the others it doesn't really happen.
     
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    RealEcon

    Free Member
    Aug 29, 2014
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    Lol.

    But this:



    Doesn't happen in the real world. Just because someone in the industry writes a few good blogs posts doesn't mean other people are going to let him guest post on their sites....Forums I could agree with you on for traffic. But the others it doesn't really happen.

    I know what you mean.:) But depending on the niche it does work. If one is lucky enough to have a product/service that relates to women/moms than they are all set for guest posting on mommy blogs.

    If there is absolutely no way anyone in your niche will allow you to guest post, then it may be time to go high PR domain shopping, and start your own blogs for guest posting. As long as you dont create a massive personal blog net with footprints everywhere, this is a viable solution.

    I forgot to mention that checking out the competitions backlinks and going to those sites and getting links yourself should be a first goal.
     
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    Hi, I am trying to get some advice and recommendations for any good SEO companies that you all have come across/use.
    My company esafes.co.uk have been trading for over 6 years and finding a good SEO company is proving tricky. Some companies claim you need to focus on content, others say you need links but not bad links-good links.
    My head is spinning and it seems like a pretty unregulated industry and it's hard to know what to believe.
    Any advice or recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

    What I would suggest is becoming a paid up member here and asking for a review of your website in the private forums and read what sort of responses you get as they tend to be far more professional than the "pick me, pick me" variety here.

    That's what I did
     
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    Ideaswise

    Free Member
    Apr 11, 2009
    122
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    Bad SEO companies will:

    Promise you a number one ranking. (Impossible, unless they do short term spamming, or choose a term no-one searches for.)
    Offer to register you to dozens of search engines. (Worthless).
    Try to impress you with large numbers of links. ( Fewer but better links is what's wanted nowadays.)
    Deliver endless automated reports but no real analysis.
    Try and sign you up via spam emails.

    Any of the above, run and don't look back.
     
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    webgeek

    Free Member
    May 19, 2009
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    OP: Spend the long winter nights learning all about it yourself with the help of Fresh Bananas.

    Nodding in agreement - if you know enough to do the job well, you'll know enough to speak with prospective service providers and separate the wheat from the chaff. You may not have time to actually do the job, and run your company, but you will be able to take on some of the activities needing done, thus controlling your costs.

    If you know what needs done and an SEO agency/consultant knows what needs done, and you're able to do many of the tasks they can do anyway, it frees them up to do the online marketing things you aren't as skilled at (technical, ppc landing pages, conversion rate optimisation, etc).

    Since many of them are the ones paying for some apps/tools, or have developed their own, you should be asking what they've got and how can it help you. Competitive or comparative backlink reports can be done in seconds on some systems, which manually would take ages. The same is true for keyword research, including finding what keywords your competition ranks for and how much traffic they likely get as a result.

    Finding duplicate content within the site, or amongst external sites - that's easy with the right tools. But if you're suffering from a penalty or loss of rankings, figuring out what caused it and how to fix it is something that make or break a company financially. Do you want to wait 3 to 6 months to find out your theory was wrong and you've got to now come up with a new one, and wait another 6 months?

    Get them on point doing things like segmenting your visitors to identify the common traits amongst buyers. You may find that limiting PPC to rural areas will double your profits, or that those short tail keywords you want as trophies are terrible a paying the bills - so you can refocus on the long tail.

    Finding the pages that have high exit rates/bounce rates, the devices that do great or poorly - the analysis and plan as a result is something you won't get overnight, no matter how good the Fresh Bananas training program.

    If you're hiring a consultant, then let them navigate while you pedal, fast. If you're hiring a service provider, then share the work load.

    Remember, a lack of experience means that someone is experimenting on your site, with you footing the bill and taking all the risk. Might as well roll the dice yourself if you are feeling lucky. Or, get someone who's been there and done that enough times to do it in their sleep, pay the extra overhead for reduced risks, and hope for the best.
     
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    Ask lots of questions...

    A good SEO should be able to cite case studies they've been involved in, recent events / algorithm updates and have a deep understanding of different techniques and how they exploit / work with the algorithm as it stands.

    If you spot any sales rubbish or they stutter - you've found a dud!

    If your guy could talk the hind legs off a donkey and goes into incredible detail regarding past works and where the industry is going, you've found a gem!

    Also, a good SEO has a blog, read it! You should be able to get a good indication of technical ability in the way they present themselves online - after all it's what their profession is all about!

    Simples!
     
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    SEO Lady

    Free Member
  • Business Listing
    Aug 28, 2009
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    www.seolady.co.uk
    I'd concentrate on increasing your conversion rates from your current traffic and optimising use for mobile devices.

    You have 4 seconds to impress, get across your call to action and tell the first time visitor what to do next when they want to find something. Make it super simple for them to see it at a glance. This 4 seconds is crucial.
    • If your bounce rate is sky high then use this as another benchmark to improve.
    • Goals - Setup goals URLs to see how / where people enter on the site, where they go.
    • Look for top exit pages. Top bounced pages.
    • Why do people bounce / exit?
    • Time spent on site - more than a couple of minutes? Less than 60 seconds?
    It's true that SEO would improve the number of visitors to any website, but if the website in question is not marketed right or optimised for mobile, then spending money on SEO is a waste of cash.
     
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    4na

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    Oct 18, 2014
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    Hi Paul-INE

    SEO isn't dead, backlinks are a must but you only need approx 10 good links, finding back-links, you need to know where to look for them, thats the key.

    Content IS king, but it is HOW you write your content to get noticed and valued on Bing, Google, MSN & Yahoo for top ranking.

    Someone wrote "Content is king is the old wives tale today." Does not know what they are talking about.

    Nobody knows where their next customer is coming from, it could be via any one of these search engines.

    Had a quick peep to see how many inner pages you have and switched off at 510 pages and counting, why? You should cut back to 50 of your strongest pages.
     
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