What global warming?

[Internationaltrader]

yep tiny changes over thousands of years....no the huge jump that started wahat 130 years ago..about the time of the Ind. Revolution..but that's just a coincidence right?


So deniers are you denying the world is actually ewarming up? Yeah you say things like "it hasn't warmed at all ove rthe past 7 years...." Completley ignoring the 130+ year upward trend ( and getting faster)

Or are you denyign CO2 increase in the atmosphere does actually increase temperature....?

Which one?

Or...do you have no idea what the hell it is al laobut and just want to deny everythign that means higher taxes?

Curious..


Ok I'll eave it there now.

 

[Davek0974]

Yes it happening, yes it man made. I do not argue anymore I jsyt point people to the facts

Please point us to the facts

 

[Big Pete]

Please point us to the facts

The facts are its the biggest money making scam ever created by the elite ..

The sun is hotter and warming ALL the planets , hence why earth changes ..
It will sort itself in time and no doubt they will say "Look what we did ! we saved you " and the sheeple will say well done here`s some more money so you can keep controlling it

 

[MASSEY]

Humans being in control of the world environment is quite ludicrous when you think.

I'm surprised these eco nuts aren't trying to ban curry to help cap methane levels.

 

[Mixture]

All of your optimism amazes me.

The real question should be, if you do believe that climate change is caused by humans, and your wrong, then there is no harm done. More than likely the atmosphere will be improved and pollution will be reduced etc. We will be more sustainable for when the oil, coal and gas run out.

If you believe climate change caused by humans is fake, and you carry out your business as normal, consuming none renewables like they are going out of fashion (no pun intended) and your wrong, then where does that leave us...

 

[hmmm]

All of your optimism amazes me.

The real question should be, if you do believe that climate change is caused by humans, and your wrong, then there is no harm done. More than likely the atmosphere will be improved and pollution will be reduced etc. We will be more sustainable for when the oil, coal and gas run out.

If you believe climate change caused by humans is fake, and you carry out your business as normal, consuming none renewables like they are going out of fashion (no pun intended) and your wrong, then where does that leave us...

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
the "if your wrong" quote is the classic way to play with minds.
the power of fear.
you nor i will ever know if we are right or wrong.
climate change can happen fast or slow.its done it many times before.if the river thames ices over what would you think?
is it normal for that to happen?
yes it is.its done it before it will do it again
will places with trees and fertile land become dry and useless ?
yes they will.its happened before.
will there be major disasters with many dying?
yes there will its happened before
do you measure the amount of "crap" coming from volcanoes and compare it to what we do?
there is no true fact to prove beyond doubt that we (humans) are changing the "normal cycles.
there is no doubt we pollute the earth. there is every reason for us to do what we can to minimize pollution .it goes without saying.
you cannot change the world .it will change you before you change it
the biggest threat pollution of any kind has is to humans and not the earth.
this should not be about pushing fear it should be about doing what i right.humans arent good at those things because of money service to self and greed (granted there are many that arent this way ,but not enough).so until humans put humans first do not expect change any time soon

 

[Mixture]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
the "if your wrong" quote is the classic way to play with minds.
the power of fear.
you nor i will ever know if we are right or wrong.
climate change can happen fast or slow.its done it many times before.if the river thames ices over what would you think?
is it normal for that to happen?
yes it is.its done it before it will do it again
will places with trees and fertile land become dry and useless ?
yes they will.its happened before.
will there be major disasters with many dying?
yes there will its happened before
do you measure the amount of "crap" coming from volcanoes and compare it to what we do?
there is no true fact to prove beyond doubt that we (humans) are changing the "normal cycles.
there is no doubt we pollute the earth. there is every reason for us to do what we can to minimize pollution .it goes without saying.
you cannot change the world .it will change you before you change it
the biggest threat pollution of any kind has is to humans and not the earth.
this should not be about pushing fear it should be about doing what i right.humans arent good at those things because of money service to self and greed (granted there are many that arent this way ,but not enough).so until humans put humans first do not expect change any time soon

What is achieved by believing it is all a natural cycle?

Never over such a short period has the volume of co2 that has been released since the industrial revolution entered the atmosphere. Are you saying that such a massive release of gasses is to have no effect what so ever on our climate?
Billions of tons of co2, long stored and suddenly released. It's the effects we are seeing now.

 

[hmmm]

am i to believe over millions of years of co2s being around only now it matters.
what is to be achieved by thinking its not natural?
your asking me to believe that where this is now sea there has never been land .your asking me to believe that if we have an ice age its our fault
your asking me to believe were there is desert there was never anything but desert since the dawn of the earth.
your asking me to belive with only 25% of earth being land of which we occupy a small percent of it plus an even smaller percentage actually dont pollute it as many countries are playing catch up that we are big enough to do it.....sorry but i dont.....
if what you are saying is true, then by the time those that dont pollute much start doing so, then its the end. my mind cannot see anything else if what you say is true as if such a small minorty of occupied land polluting is doing what you say.then you must understand we are doomed in your mind...... i dont see it that way though

 

[David Griffiths]

Never over such a short period has the volume of co2 that has been released since the industrial revolution entered the atmosphere.

How do you know that volume hasn't been released before? What records are there to back up that statement?

Or are you using sloppy language and referring only to CO2 released by human activity?

Are you saying that such a massive release of gasses is to have no effect what so ever on our climate?

Massive in relation to what? Bearing in mind that CO2 isn't even the most abundant greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, what proportion of CO2 released today is down to human activity? Then put "massive" in context.

 

[MASSEY]

Global warming people are starting to grate on me in a similar way religious people do.

 

[David Griffiths]

Global warming people are starting to grate on me in a similar way religious people do.

They often confuse the issue of climate change and global warming with the finite amount of fossil fuels. They are quite separate issues.

 

[Mixture]

How do you know that volume hasn't been released before? What records are there to back up that statement?

Or are you using sloppy language and referring only to CO2 released by human activity?




Massive in relation to what? Bearing in mind that CO2 isn't even the most abundant greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, what proportion of CO2 released today is down to human activity? Then put "massive" in context.

Ice cores have shown that pre industrial revolution the levels of co2 in the atmosphere was quite steady, and then a massive increase of co2 because of the stored co2 in coal and oil being released.

Do you believe that a sudden release of co2 that has been stored for millions of years is not going to cause a problem?

 

[Mixture]

am i to believe over millions of years of co2s being around only now it matters.
what is to be achieved by thinking its not natural?
your asking me to believe that where this is now sea there has never been land .your asking me to believe that if we have an ice age its our fault
your asking me to believe were there is desert there was never anything but desert since the dawn of the earth.
your asking me to belive with only 25% of earth being land of which we occupy a small percent of it plus an even smaller percentage actually dont pollute it as many countries are playing catch up that we are big enough to do it.....sorry but i dont.....
if what you are saying is true, then by the time those that dont pollute much start doing so, then its the end. my mind cannot see anything else if what you say is true as if such a small minorty of occupied land polluting is doing what you say.then you must understand we are doomed in your mind...... i dont see it that way though

I fully accept we are doomed. We will wipe ourselves out long before climate change gets us.
Be it nuclear bombs, biological weapons or whatever else.

I think we've got about 2 weeks left, till the start of the Olympics and the "terrorists" attack.

 

[MASSEY]

I think we've got about 2 weeks left, till the start of the Olympics and the "terrorists" attack.

You writing terrorist and olympics in the same sentence will most likely have triggered someone from MI6's attention

 

[MASSEY]

Ice cores have shown that pre industrial revolution the levels of co2 in the atmosphere was quite steady, and then a massive increase of co2 because of the stored co2 in coal and oil being released.

Do you believe that a sudden release of co2 that has been stored for millions of years is not going to cause a problem?

Just because the c02 has increased it doesn't mean we are warming up the earth.

How do you even know man is capable of warming the earth? Scientists can't even give us a straight answer.

 

[Mixture]

You writing terrorist and olympics in the same sentence will most likely have triggered someone from MI6's attention

I would have thought MI6 would be well aware of it. After all I believe they will have planned it.

 

[hmmm]

if you feel we are doomed then there seems no point changing anything

 

[MASSEY]

if you feel we are doomed then there seems no point changing anything

In a sense there is no point to anything.

 

[hmmm]

or mass

 

[Mixture]

In a sense there is no point to anything.

Agree with that!

 

[Davek0974]

All of your optimism amazes me.

The real question should be, if you do believe that climate change is caused by humans, and your wrong, then there is no harm done. More than likely the atmosphere will be improved and pollution will be reduced etc. We will be more sustainable for when the oil, coal and gas run out.

If you believe climate change caused by humans is fake, and you carry out your business as normal, consuming none renewables like they are going out of fashion (no pun intended) and your wrong, then where does that leave us...

The point that you believe that mere humans can control the world climate amazes me.:redface:

Its not a matter of quote "carry out your business as normal, consuming none renewables like they are going out of fashion", as everyone around the world should be doing what they can realistically do to reduce usage of these rare fuels. But, taxing the hell out of a couple of countries when others are just burning the candle at both ends is foolhardy and will not make any difference, it must be tackled globally and as that will likely never happen we are back to square one.

 

[Mixture]

The point that you believe that mere humans can control the world climate amazes me.:redface:

Its not a matter of quote "carry out your business as normal, consuming none renewables like they are going out of fashion", as everyone around the world should be doing what they can realistically do to reduce usage of these rare fuels. But, taxing the hell out of a couple of countries when others are just burning the candle at both ends is foolhardy and will not make any difference, it must be tackled globally and as that will likely never happen we are back to square one.

I'm not disagreeing with you on that. Every country should be working at finding an alternative.

If we make it till the oil runs out, that will really be the end as everyone fights for what is left.

To say that mere humans cannot change the planets climate is madness. We can, and we have. Urban smog, asthma, COPD, etc.

Humans are releasing 15 gigatonnes of co2 every year. It was steady until around 250 years ago.

CO2 has been proven to trap heat, and is raising the overall temperature of the planet.

The temperature of the oceans is the major issue and is climbing at a rate never before seen.

We even manage to heat the oceans 2000 meters below the surface.

To believe otherwise is, well, wrong.

 

[David Griffiths]

Ice cores have shown that pre industrial revolution the levels of co2 in the atmosphere was quite steady, and then a massive increase of co2 because of the stored co2 in coal and oil being released.

Do you believe that a sudden release of co2 that has been stored for millions of years is not going to cause a problem?

You didn't answer the questions.

In fact I believe that the statement about ice cores is incorrect. Doesn't Al Gore travel around with a chart that shows different levels of CO2 trapped in ice cores? How is it that his chart shows variations and you say that the levels were "quite steady"?

And doesn't Mr Gore's chart indeed show a correlation between global temperatures and CO2 levels in the ice cores? But some people point out that the CO2 levels actually lag behind temperature, and don't precede it.

And that is, apparently, based on 1,000 years of data. Sounds impressive, but it's truly insignificant in the lifetime of the earth - about 4.5 billion years - I make that 0.00002%. So how can you say that this level of CO2 has never been released before? The climate has certainly been a lot warmer than it is now, and a lot colder at other times. Those changes took place with little or no contribution from fossil fuels.

And then where does human activity stand in the table of production of CO2? Not very high, I think that you will find

The whole question is nowhere near as black and white as you are making out.

 

[Davek0974]

I'm not disagreeing with you on that. Every country should be working at finding an alternative.

To say that mere humans cannot change the planets climate is madness. We can, and we have. Urban smog, asthma, COPD, etc.

Smog and asthma are not the worlds climate, smog was an effect of pollution and asthma is a medical diagnosis.

Humans are releasing 15 gigatonnes of co2 every year. It was steady until around 250 years ago.

250 years ago the worlds population was around 610m in 2012 it is around 7bn, your argument is not a fair comparison, it is completely natural that CO2 emission would increase with increasing population.

CO2 has been proven to trap heat, and is raising the overall temperature of the planet.

The temperature of the oceans is the major issue and is climbing at a rate never before seen.

Probably because records don't go back far enough.

We even manage to heat the oceans 2000 meters below the surface.

Proof please, IMHO that is poppycock as at that depth, the temperature is more likely controlled by the earths core, unless of course we are controlling that as well

To believe otherwise is, well, wrong.

So says you......

 

[hmmm]

how many volcanoes are erupting at anyone time above ground and below the sea?
how much co2 is coming from underneath the ice and from where ice once was?
it seems obvious to me that we are getting warmer but why does it have to mean we are doing it. tomorrow it could get very cold and stay that way for a very very long time.

 

[Davek0974]

it seems obvious to me that we are getting warmer but why does it have to mean we are doing it. tomorrow it could get very cold and stay that way for a very very long time.

Wetter maybe

The simple reason is that by blaming us mere mortals for all the worlds problems keeps us (well some of us) scared and willing to listen to so-called experts and obey them. It is also a fantastic way of controlling wealth and of raising funds by taxation for no reason.

 

[Mixture]

Wetter maybe

The simple reason is that by blaming us mere mortals for all the worlds problems keeps us (well some of us) scared and willing to listen to so-called experts and obey them. It is also a fantastic way of controlling wealth and of raising funds by taxation for no reason.

I am truly astounded by you people. Your kidding yourselves. It is black and white. Clear as day, and after research paper after research paper had shown that us mere mortals produce gigatonnes of co2 every year.

CO2 levels where a lot higher in the past. Then plants evolved and over millions of years, the co2 was stored until a very short term release of it all.

That is why plants grow faster with increased co2 levels. They have retained this ability.

All the 'point me to the facts' people should do some research.

Type climate change caused by humans into Google, and the results are a mix of viewpoints. You need to make your own mind up.

Some people just don't like what they hear.

 

[David Griffiths]

Some people just don't like what they hear.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

 

[Mixture]

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Difference is, if I'm wrong, it's a good thing.

 

[David Griffiths]

Difference is, if I'm wrong, it's a good thing.

Wow. Who can argue with intellectual incisiveness of that order?

 

[Mixture]

Wow. Who can argue with intellectual incisiveness of that order?

So true. Glad you have seen the light.

 

[Davek0974]

I am truly astounded by you people. Your kidding yourselves. It is black and white. Clear as day, and after research paper after research paper had shown that us mere mortals produce gigatonnes of co2 every year.

Trouble is, i don't trust 90% of these papers.

CO2 levels where a lot higher in the past. Then plants evolved and over millions of years, the co2 was stored until a very short term release of it all.

That is why plants grow faster with increased co2 levels. They have retained this ability.

Then surely if plants are reacting faster, we should soon reach a happy balance again, plant more plants

You need to make your own mind up.

Err, i HAVE made my own mind up thank you.

Some people just don't like what they hear.

Maybe some people just don't like what you're peddling???

 

[StephenW]

Climategate investigation closed - statute limit looms, cops impotent

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/07/18/climategate-investigation-closed-cops-impotent/

 

[David Griffiths]

Climategate investigation closed – statute limit looms, cops impotent

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/07/18/climategate-investigation-closed-cops-impotent/

So the police weren't getting warmer, then?

 

[StephenW]

Something new on wattsupwiththat.com

"A reanalysis of U.S. surface station temperatures has been performed using the recently WMO-approved Siting Classification System devised by METEO-France’s Michel Leroy. The new siting classification more accurately characterizes the quality of the location in terms of monitoring long-term spatially representative surface temperature trends. The new analysis demonstrates that reported 1979-2008 U.S. temperature trends are spuriously doubled, with 92% of that over-estimation resulting from erroneous NOAA adjustments of well-sited stations upward. The paper is the first to use the updated siting system which addresses USHCN siting issues and data adjustments."

See more here: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/07/29/press-release-2/

 

[Top Hat]

Potholer54 does some good videos on global warming, here's his latest
http://youtu.be/CY4Yecsx_-s

 

[Richard tj]

We run a business that in part operates on what the original poster refers to as "hype". Anyone who has even a small part to play in this debate would be aware that Global Warming results in wilder weather conditions- as we are seeing in the Uk this year alone. A number of my close acquaintances don't believe in Global warming. I've read (or tried to) a couple of books that debunk the idea, yet the arguments against Global warming seem to be based upon rather weak ideas that attack the science, rather than provide a valid argument why it's not occuring. I have yet to see any form of science that shows we are not the cause of Global Warming. At best, it side steps the issue, pointing to Solar Activity as the reason for climate change. However, the Sun's been going through a minimum and we've been experiencing serious changes in our climate, as jet streams move erratically and ocean currents change perceptably. Even without Global Warming, we've changed our climate so much that we're now indirectly killing off entire ecosystems. From Acid rain in the 80's to Ocean acidification and (CO2 deposition in the Oceans to such an extent that Coral is dying off) the disruption of entire food chains, we've got to worry.

 

[Deleted member 138839]

In reading all these comments, we have the doubters, non - believers, and believers in global warming. What concerns me do we really understand what's going on, if we are over populating the planet and its resources there must be consequences which we need to face up to? We do have a responsibility to our next generation, they are the ones who will be facing some serious environmental challenges and in the way we do business?

Stressman

 

[Davek0974]

What concerns me do we really understand what's going on, if we are over populating the planet and its resources there must be consequences which we need to face up to? We do have a responsibility to our next generation, they are the ones who will be facing some serious environmental challenges and in the way we do business?

Stressman

What concerns me is does anyone actually believe that taxing and controlling the UK to the limits all in the image of "being green" is actually going to make one tiny bit of difference globally? I think the answer is no.

If its a global problem then it must be tackled globally not piece-meal as all we are doing is offsetting our nice clean environment against the filth belching out of say India or China. Its a fruitless battle, if the whole UK stopped using fossil fuels and ceased to exist overnight, would it affect the world? I think the answer is no.

I'm not saying we should all go out and piss fuel up the walls, we have a responsibility to use this planet as sensibly as possible so it makes sense to develop and use more efficient vehicles etc, but don't tag it with the "global warming" or "climate change" banner, put it down to human responsibility, and don't tax us for doing so - that is purely profiteering.

 

[hmmm]

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/08/02/antarctica-once-covered-in-palm-trees-scientists-discover/

so the Antarctic had palm trees on it.....maybe.
if all of a sudden that happened now.the man made warming police would tell you its your fault.everyone would panic....................
wouldnt you stressman