Sole Trade -v- Limited Company

Now what id like some help with based on my current situation is, is it best to become a 'Limited Company' or 'Sole Trader'. Going on the HMRC pages and taking the little test they offer it would seem that Sole Trader would be the way forward and i also feel like this is the right move for me.

Sadly, it is a decision that only you can make, but your decision now does not need to be final.

It may well be that for now sole trader is the best option, but once you finish Uni - particularly if you have a student loan - a limited company might then become your preferred option.

One of the biggest positives of a limited company is that as it is a separate legal entity from you as an individual, thus the income you receive from it can be controlled to best advantage (something you can't do as a sole-trader). So, if building up cash from the work undertaken is the most important, then you can reduce the amount you pay yourself (which might also mean that you then do not have to make student loan repayments and although the debt goes up in line with inflation, it is one of the cheapest methods of finance around - so pay it off later if you have other calls on your money). Building up cash in the company is of high importance in most new ventures (unless you have a rich suger daddy to put money in) as it means you can expand without running out of cash (the cause of many early business failures).

It is also not too difficult to convert from sole-trader to limited company, but do get advice from an accountant because if you don't do it right you can be liable to pay tax on something you haven't earned.
 
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Just wanted to say you are not best having an old car in a limited company. You get taxed (the benefit in kind) on the list price of the vehicle and not the market value. If you are determined to have a company car then you need to go for a very fuel efficient car to avoid a lot of tax. Best medium cars are BMW 1 series and Golf blue motions.
Also corporation tax is on its way down for larger companies but for smaller companies it is static.
 
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There has been a wealth of posts on this subject, some giving excellent advice and some giving not so good advice.

I am not sure what mine falls under but will give you my thoughts.

First things first, consider the IR35 question before moving on.

Once satisfied, tax considerations.

Currently, on annual net profits of £50,000, the company option will save you up to £3437 per year in tax. (I am working on the basis of personal allowance salary balance dividends)

Differential pension treatment between that of a company and as a sole trade or partnership will also benefit you.

So in tax terms it first appears to be a no brainer.

Unfortunately there is a lot more to consider.

If you go limited then your accountants fees will most likely rise by iro £1,000 compared to a non incorporated trade. This will reduce the tax gain.

If you run a car through the business then depending on the car you drive this will also have a significant impact on your tax bill. An older car would mmost likely be more attractive through a limited co - a gas guzzling 4x4 would be much more beneficial running through a sole trade or Partnership.

Tax credits can be adversely affected by your choice due to dividends being grossed up - so exactly the same actual income would be treated differently for tax credits and affect the amount received.

Corporation tax rates / income tax rates - The former is rising, the latter is falling.

This government has moved the goalposts with regard to taxation of small companies more in the last five years than in living memory - who knows what is next? Income shifting will be in in some shape or form in one year, and don't rule out NI on dividends for close companies (once the election is out of the way, of course)

And once you have incorporated and got all of the reliefs then you won't get any more, or find it as easy, to go back the other way should the above come to fruition.

Then there is all the other stuff that is always bought up:

Limitation of liability - How important is that to the business?
Perception - How important is that to the business?
Administration - How good are you at it?
Directors Duties - More onerous than that of a sole trader
Loss relief - Important consideration
Associated companies - If so could increase the company tax rate.
Profit extraction - In particular dividend paperwork must now be watertight and can only come from profit.
Critical illness cover - Los salary / high dividend, are dividends taken into account by your insurers? If not could be a nasty surprise when you most need the cash.

The trouble is that a lot of advice given is to go limited due to the immediately apparent tax advantages of low salary / high dividend, and people are quick to take it up due to them naturally wanting to retain more of their hard earned profit. Yet many of the above points are not always considered and they need to be.

Don't get me wrong - my opinion is that the limited company route remains an attractive solution to many, but those who decide to go into it should do so with their eyes open and aware of the full facts. And what suits one doesn't always suit another - there is no standard answer without knowing the full facts of someones business, and even their personal traits.

Don't make this decision lightly.
Just wanted to say you are not best having an old car in a limited company. You get taxed (the benefit in kind) on the list price of the vehicle and not the market value. If you are determined to have a company car then you need to go for a very fuel efficient car to avoid a lot of tax. Best medium cars are BMW 1 series and Golf blue motions.
Also corporation tax is on its way down for larger companies but for smaller companies it is static.
 
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Just wanted to say you are not best having an old car in a limited company. You get taxed (the benefit in kind) on the list price of the vehicle and not the market value. If you are determined to have a company car then you need to go for a very fuel efficient car to avoid a lot of tax. Best medium cars are BMW 1 series and Golf blue motions.
Also corporation tax is on its way down for larger companies but for smaller companies it is static.


Way too general. Each case should be looked at on its own facts, and it is impossible to cover all cases with a statement like this.

In fact the ONLY time that I have had a company car is when it was and old vehicle and I can assure you that it was the best route to take.

And quite why you needed to make the same (incorrect) point twice in successive posts defeats me.
 
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Hi

Apologies for posting twice, Im new on this and my computer froze and I wasn't sure if I had posted or not. I dispute the "incorrect" element though.

As an accountant in a large independent practice, working with owner managed businesses for over 10 years, we often get asked to calculate the cost of company cars v having them outside the business and it is our experience (and I can only basis my comments on this) we have always found that unless the car in question is extremely fuel efficient then the car is better outside the business. I gave caution against an old car as a company car, as I have experience of a client who did this against our advice and ended up with a very high tax bill. My comments are mearly my opinion and yes while general, I thought that was the point? As with all things everyone has different opinions.

I would urge anyone looking into incorporating to sit down with their accountant and see what is best for you and make sure you discuss all options as David mentioned.
 
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. I dispute the "incorrect" element though.

As an accountant in a large independent practice, working with owner managed businesses for over 10 years, we often get asked to calculate the cost of company cars v having them outside the business and it is our experience (and I can only basis my comments on this) we have always found that unless the car in question is extremely fuel efficient then the car is better outside the business. I gave caution against an old car as a company car, as I have experience of a client who did this against our advice and ended up with a very high tax bill. My comments are mearly my opinion and yes while general, I thought that was the point? As with all things everyone has different opinions.

Just because you have always found something to be the case doesn't mean that the opposite can never be the best option. Yes, you can generalise and say that most of the time it's better to keep old cars outside the company, but to imply that that is the case all of the time is wrong.

There are circumstances where the benefit on kind of an old car is lower than the actual running costs. In fact those circumstances are probably more common now than they were when I had an old car as a company vehicle.

Over the years that I've been in practice, I've done the calculations often enough as well and agree that most of the time it's not worth it. I'm making the point that generalising is wrong.
 
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Hi there,

I have a full time job but want to start a business. I don't want to quit my job as of yet. So basically want to start trading see how it goes and then quit my job once I can see it being beneficial to focus on full time.

Unless I get very lucky it is likely I will muddle thorough for first six months to year generating little profits

Obviously if my employer finds out I might be in trouble. Does anybody has any advice on this.If i become a director i have to declare this to my employer. If I am a sole trader I still would have to pay income tax. I am happy and obviously have to pay tax but don't want my employer to find out that i am doing a second business in my free time!
 
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Sole trader route is good. National Insurance is very low. Can offset expenses against profits. You need to register as a sole trader though.
Type "Sole Trader Registration" into Google for details.
 
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Sole trader route is good. National Insurance is very low. Can offset expenses against profits. You need to register as a sole trader though.
Type "Sole Trader Registration" into Google for details.

second time you have posted this :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
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Might be a bit of a moot point - but does anyone else think this sticky's possibly not in right place?

I would of thought the general business forum might've been better for it - as there's more things to consider when debating incorporation than accounts. Maybe not, but it might get more exposure, considering its quite a common topic...

Just a thought.
 
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Might be a bit of a moot point - but does anyone else think this sticky's possibly not in right place?

I would of thought the general business forum might've been better for it - as there's more things to consider when debating incorporation than accounts. Maybe not, but it might get more exposure, considering its quite a common topic...

Just a thought.

Yes I agree, and I'm not actually sure it's of much use now with so many old posts and incorrect/misleading information.
 
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Jason Dormer (DFL), who wrote the original post is out of the office today but I have spoken to him and he is happy to update the post for the forum.

Kind regards

Zöe
 
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I hope that we won't lose all of the great comments and posts when it is transferred - that is what makes the forum
It's a shame that there can't be two threads. One which is locked and available for posting only by "approved" forum members and one that is open for general posting. Would make it much easier for anyone who actually wanted the answer rather that their having to read hundreds of posts many of which say very little and some of which are clearly incorrect :cool:
 
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It's a shame that there can't be two threads. One which is locked and available for posting only by "approved" forum members and one that is open for general posting. Would make it much easier for anyone who actually wanted the answer rather that their having to read hundreds of posts many of which say very little and some of which are clearly incorrect :cool:

good point Bob - but this is a forum. Some sites (say Business Zone but not fourms) post articles or blogs but I think a forum is open to all to post whatever within the rules :)
 
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I’ve recently registered myself as a sole trader with HMRC but as I’ve resided in the UK just few months ago I do need to ask some things you guys.


  • How can I get any certificate or letter proving and confirming name and activity I’ve chosen for my business?
  • Am I allowed to use business name on my letterheads without mentioning my name?
  • Do sole traders use UTR number the way companies use their registration number ( as “identification” number) ?

I did do a search on the above in the internet but you are my last hope to get some real answers.
 
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  • How can I get any certificate or letter proving and confirming name and activity I’ve chosen for my business?
As far as I am aware no such official certificate exists in the UK. Most people start a business and that's it.

Am I allowed to use business name on my letterheads without mentioning my name?
No. Your business correspondence should include your name.
  • Do sole traders use UTR number the way companies use their registration number ( as “identification” number) ?
No. Your UTR should only be used in communication with HMRC. Sole traders do not have identification numbers. If you want your business to have a certificate of incorporation and an identification number you must register it as a limited company.
 
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As far as I am aware no such official certificate exists in the UK. Most people start a business and that's it.

The Incorporation Certificate would confirm your name and company registration number, but not your business activity...
 
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I haven't read the entire thread, just the first post. You mention a tax saving from net profits but a company expenditure that a sole trader would not have is Corporation Tax. Say for example it is a one man / small business. If he/she goes out and earns £100k business, the net profit in the ltd company will be lower than that in a sole trader and the difference will probably be greater that the tax saving, due to Corporation tax.
 
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I haven't read the entire thread, just the first post. You mention a tax saving from net profits but a company expenditure that a sole trader would not have is Corporation Tax. Say for example it is a one man / small business. If he/she goes out and earns £100k business, the net profit in the ltd company will be lower than that in a sole trader and the difference will probably be greater that the tax saving, due to Corporation tax.

Would you not need to consider Income Tax, though?
 
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I haven't read the entire thread, just the first post. You mention a tax saving from net profits but a company expenditure that a sole trader would not have is Corporation Tax. Say for example it is a one man / small business. If he/she goes out and earns £100k business, the net profit in the ltd company will be lower than that in a sole trader and the difference will probably be greater that the tax saving, due to Corporation tax.


See here for a comparison ....

http://www.cheapaccounting.co.uk/blog/index.php/why-are-you-a-sole-trader/
 
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Hi All

The only thing I would say that a limited company will give you better control in terms of taxation. For example, you don't have to pay income tax in advance like sole traders. Also a limited company is a way forward. Cheers.

Company Formations 123
A leading company formation agents in UK. Please visit our site to find more about our cash back deals.
 
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Hi All

The only thing I would say that a limited company will give you better control in terms of taxation. For example, you don't have to pay income tax in advance like sole traders.

Sole traders don't pay income tax in advance, either. If you think about the actual payment dates, that's pretty obvious.

They may pay with less delay than limited companies but they do not pay in advance.
 
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Yes, everyone is right. But I know about a lot of cases where traders will not get any contract if they are not a registered company and registered for VAT. Get the business first, then you will have money for all professional services or for any tax bills. ;)
 
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Yes, everyone is right. But I know about a lot of cases where traders will not get any contract if they are not a registered company and registered for VAT. Get the business first, then you will have money for all professional services or for any tax bills. ;)

Assuming there is no problems in the incorporation...and you can still honour the contracts...? :D
 
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Guess someone's already mentioned this, but, tax and legal issues aside,

- A limited company,
- with a name that reflects your niche,
- with a proper-looking address for correspondence and
- a local telephone number.

... looks a lot better on paper than 'Joe Smith trading as Magnificent Company Agency'. Help you get business, IMHO.
 
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I've ploughed through these 24 pages and I have a question/issue that I don't think has been raised. The tax issue always seems to start from the premise of "on profit of £x you can save up to £y" - all well and good, but is the profit figure itself always going to be the same in a given situation? Surely there are also differences in the gross-to-net calculation, as it were? Different deductions and allowances that apply between ltd co and s/e?

For example, do you get identical allowances for use of the home - portion of mortgage interest, council tax, utilities, etc., as a co. director as you do as a self employed person? Assuming not, given the different status, does one typically gain or lose on this aspect?

For another example, it has been mentioned that the accountant's fees might be higher. So, disregarding anything else whatsoever, that would make the ltd co's profit figure lower than the sole trader's profit for an otherwise identical set of figures, wouldn't it?

In essence, then, as I sit here thinking that on my profit of 40k from s/e, ltd co. looks a good route to follow, can I be reasonably confident that ceteris paribus, had I been a ltd co this year, my profit would still be 40k (from a gross of 45k FWIW) ? (OK, £40k minus a bit for accountancy fees!). Or are we, in fact, not quite comparing like with like when we make this simple comparison?
 
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