Lord Sugar's comments - opinions!
- Thread starter NickD
- Start date
I think it is just that a lot of engineers are not commercially aware and too stuck in the detail/design of what they are doing.
That said, I remember hearing that engineers make the best CEO's... plus they have the ability to invent things and then hire the sales and marketing guys to sell it.
That said, I remember hearing that engineers make the best CEO's... plus they have the ability to invent things and then hire the sales and marketing guys to sell it.
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There was a study of Fortune 500 CEOs and where they came from within the company. I seem to recall that marketing (not including sales) was top.
The suggested explanation was that marketing is a strategic business growth activity and that's what companies want from CEOs: strategy and business growth.
Steve
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Alan Sugar is a half wit....... Good lord Gibson, one day you'll surprise us all and say something that isn't completely banal.
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An engineer constantly seeks perfection, and spends time and energy getting there. A businessman spots the point when it can be sold, and stops there, saving further development for later. Engineers want to keep developing. Lord Sugar sold cheap bottom end products and did well - you can imagine the engineers saying "If we make this plastic part out of metal, it will last longer" and you can imagine Sugar saying "bugger that, who cares if it only lasts a couple of years, then we sell them the better version". Engineers, with obvious exceptions - as our members here - think differently!
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Good point Paul
I'm an engineer by trade. I'm also a good businessman but I'm not going to get all messed up by taking that comment by Alan Sugar personally. I'd rather just get on with it and quietly know that it's not always the case.
It's probably got some foundation in truth to be honest. People who concentrate solely on the technical aspects of what they are doing are often not good business people. If I concentrated solely on the engineering aspects of my business I wouldn't be.
I'm an engineer by trade. I'm also a good businessman but I'm not going to get all messed up by taking that comment by Alan Sugar personally. I'd rather just get on with it and quietly know that it's not always the case.
It's probably got some foundation in truth to be honest. People who concentrate solely on the technical aspects of what they are doing are often not good business people. If I concentrated solely on the engineering aspects of my business I wouldn't be.
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2617.
That's the number of times my "banal" posts have been thanked.
The fact that you don't get any value from my contributions to UKBF isn't my problem.
So I suggest you take whatever personal issue you have with me... and share it with someone who cares...
Steve
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Good find.
I think that supports my comment earlier that being "the sort of logical thinker who can get an engineering degree should hardly be an obstacle".
What I find strange here on this thread is that people don't distinguish between engineers who want to be engineers and engineers who decide they'd rather be businessmen.
Surely these people have different personalities?
Steve
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G
GeorgeStrait
Stop being a child Steve, I said that Sugar wasn't generalising - which you claimed he had. I admitted, when I realised, that is was Nick that quantified (rather than Sugar) the experience behind the statement, and hence why Sugar said it.
Why do you still continue to see that no sweeping generalisation was made, but rather a comment based on one man's experience?
So to keep things really, really simple for you:-
If Sugar had said "engineers can't make good business men" then that would be a generalisation.
He DID say "I have yet to meet a engineer.........". See the difference? No you probably don't do you.
That is all I ever said in my first post.
I think you'll find, Steve, that that is why Sugar is worth millions and on a top rated tv show - he knows exactly what he said to stir up controversy, whilst saying nothing that is in anyway liable if you listen to all of what is said. If you like him or not he sure isn't stupid.
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You don't see how ironic that remark is?
See the link I referenced in post 23. According to that, he fired the guy because
(a) the guy was an engineer
and
(b) because Sugar had "never come across an engineer that can turn his hand to business".
That's a case of generalising, is it not?
You're assuming that one person can speak for another. Unless Nick was saying "Alan Sugar told me...", he's guessing.
We don't know that Sugar based the decision on 2 engineers failing in business... or whether Sugar based the decision on 2 engineers failing at business plus having known a whole lot of engineers, none of whom seemed to have a business brain.
There's a big difference between...
"I knew 2 engineers who went into business... and they both failed, so I don't think engineers make good businessmen".
and
"I've known dozens of engineers and none of them seemed suited to running a business, and the only 2 I know who started businesses both failed. So I think engineers don't make good businessmen".
As I keep saying, it all comes down to sample size.
You're leaving out the bit where he fired the guy and used the fact he was an engineer to justify his decision.
Unless, of course, the reference I linked to in post 23 was wrong. In which case, why didn't you mention that at the time?
Yes, as I said on page 1, "I suspect he doesn't believe it. Basically, he's an attention-seeking gobshite".
Steve
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G
GeorgeStrait
Well I've given up, there is nothing really to agree to disagree on. My one and only point (that I have admittedly laboured to death) is that is wasn't a generalisation.
I'll agree to the fact that Steve is wrong, knows he's wrong, but won't admit he's wrong because he's not yet mature enough
So I'm done here until it moves on.
Actually I'll give it a go.
Wouldn't Mr Alan Sugar have dealt with probably hundreds of engineers (software, electronic etc) in his Amstrad days?
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He asked me questions, I answered them.
Though I don't know how many times I can find a different way to ask the question, "How many engineers is he basing that generalisation on?".
It is, after all, the basis for his comments... and will show whether he's making an idiotic generalisation based on 2 people, or a reasonable generalisation based on dozens of people. (Or something in between.)
Anyway, it seems guvna has disproven the assumption that engineers can't run businesses.
And, if that's the case, whether Sugar is basing his beliefs on 2 engineers or 200, he's simply wrong.
Steve
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OK, then please add me to your ignore list.
As I pointed out, I've added enough value to this forum to be thanked over 2,600 times.
And, as far as I'm concerned, that should earn me the right to not have to listen to whiny insults from someone who thinks all my posts are "banal".
Maybe, instead of throwing around insults, you should ask yourself why, when so many people have found value in them, you're incapable of seeing any value.
Steve
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G
GeorgeStrait
Climb back down from your own back passage sir.
Your thanked % is slightly less than mine. So does that mean than my post are more valid than yours?
Now get down on your knees and show me some respect
Edit
The % may change depending on what other drivel I may have posted when you read this, but at the point of post the figures are correct!
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Where did I compare the value of my posts to yours... or, indeed, to anyone else's?
Some idiot suggested I'd never posted anything that wasn't "banal". I provided evidence to the contrary (based on the only objective measure we have).
That's all.
Are my very simply worded posts really so hard for you to understand?
Steve
PS As for % thanks, it's worth pointing out that many of us were here before the "thanks" system was introduced. That means we have a large number of posts that were unlikely to be thanked.
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G
GeorgeStrait
Is this what they call flaming?
Not flaming at all, just a argument/discussion between two adults
Fun 'aint it.
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Not flaming at all, just a argument/discussion between two adults
I think you may wish to reconsider that statement.?
It may be a good idea to check your blood pressure at the same time.
Earl
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G
GeorgeStrait
I think you may wish to reconsider that statement.?
It may be a good idea to check your blood pressure at the same time.
Earl
Thanks Earl, but trust me I enjoy this sort of thing and have been up against bigger and better than Steve and had a pint or six with them afterwards.
It's all about being grown up and not taking things at a personal level and ending the "discussion" with no hard feelings.
Don't take me to seriously will you
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Sorry Steve, you have obviously forgotten this post
No, that was the very post I was thinking about.
Yes, it contained both those words... and other words, too.
Where was the part where I compared the value of my posts to the value of the posts of another member of the forum?
Nowhere.
All I did was point out evidence that other people on the forum have valued what I've posted - and then claimed that that meant that I had made posts that weren't "banal".
Aside to other members: is this really as complicated as George seems to think? I thought it was a really simple point I made - i.e. "many thanks = I must have posted something helpful or insightful at some point".
Steve
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G
GeorgeStrait
You must get tired doing all this back tracking Steve!
Anyway, let's leave it there as never the twain will meet on this one.
I look forward to our next crossing of swords
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G
GeorgeStrait
Well if you insist, yes you may have posted something "helpful" or "insightful" but no more than me or others, as my % point proved.
We have the dignity and self-awareness not to read to much into though, unlike you.
Night night.
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Cough...
Well, when someone with no brain makes the statement
"one day you'll surprise us all and say something that isn't completely banal"
to you, I'll be interested to see what your response is.
I find it very regrettable that this forum is allowing trolls to operate on here.
It puts those of us on the receiving end in a lose-lose position.
We either ignore it and look like we agree with the insults... or reply and get drawn into arguments with idiots... arguments that don't serve anyone.
As I said, "lose-lose".
Steve
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"Never employ an engineer in Business/Sales. They're not up to it!"
Been told it at 3 different companies by senior Management.
What they mean is the Engineer won't sell a pup. They see the product is not 'right' for the customer so don't push through with the sale.
The Salesman (read chancer) can spot the opportunities and drive the company forward - until all the dodgy deals/false promises bite them.
Now, about the Bankers and Property developers with their fancy schemes...!
Been told it at 3 different companies by senior Management.
What they mean is the Engineer won't sell a pup. They see the product is not 'right' for the customer so don't push through with the sale.
The Salesman (read chancer) can spot the opportunities and drive the company forward - until all the dodgy deals/false promises bite them.
Now, about the Bankers and Property developers with their fancy schemes...!
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Thanks for asking... I'll be happy to explain it to you...
Firstly, it's not all of them, it's just you two.
It's perfectly reasonable for one person to criticise another if they're actually criticising that person for something.
You were clearly on the lookout for an excuse to attack me, but look what you attacked me on: whether or not I'd ever posted something useful.
That's my strong suit, man. I've thousands of thanks to back me up.
Only an idiot attacks someone where they're stronger.
Your criticism was, "I don't care that other people have appreciated your posts - I don't like you, so I'm going to say they're worthless."
Just stupid.
You would have been so much smarter attacking me just based on what I posted on page 1. You may have even managed to get me to say that Alan Sugar looks like a dog testicle balanced atop a Marks and Spencer suit.*
But, no, you were foolish enough to make it about all my posts. All my posts, ever.
And what exactly did you want me to do about your comments?
If you really think all my posts are "banal", were you asking me to raise my game?
I've made over 9,000 posts, melon head. If, as you're suggesting, none of them were any good, it's hardly likely to be because I was saving my good material.
Or were you telling me to leave the forum?
Well, it's not your forum. If you don't like people's posts, add them to your ignore list... or just let it go... or leave the forum yourself.
But don't be getting delusions of mod-eur and start bossing people around.
Do you think that I think all posters on here make good contributions?
Of course not. Am I so full of myself that I feel it's my job to tell them this?
No, of course not. I'm just not that ignorant.
But, no, you had to attack another forum member out the blue. I wasn't even talking to you... or about you.
Maybe you impressed people... or maybe they were astonished by your rudeness. Personally, I just thought "that guy is an idiot". And that's what I still think.
And, what's even funnier is, whatever led you to have a vendetta against me is so small and so petty, I've no idea what it is.
If I had any respect for you whatsoever, I'd try to find out... but I don't...
Has that answered your question?
If so, I'm glad to have been of assistance.
Steve
* A joke stolen from the Daily Mash.
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