Are you a Christian?

[DCE]

B

Remember it was not rebuilt after this attack, so you'll find no more occurrences to it being destroyed again.

At last you have the point, as Jesus said it would be totally destroyed never to be rebuilt again, he was spot on with his prophesy, never would earthly Jerusalem be the centre of true worship to God ever again.

(Luke 13:34-35) .*.*.Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent forth to her—how often I wanted to gather your children together in the manner that a hen gathers her brood of chicks under her wings, but YOU people did not want [it]! 35*Look! YOUR house is abandoned to YOU.

 

[Subbynet]

At last you have the point, as Jesus said it would be totally destroyed never to be rebuilt again, he was spot on with his prophesy, never would earthly Jerusalem be the centre of true worship to God ever again.

Ah, you qualify this with "centre of true worship", because you know as well as I do that it was used and still considered as a centre of worship. For centuries to come wars were fort by all religions in Jerusalem.

Please answer that point.

 

[DCE]

Ah, you qualify this with "centre of true worship", because you know as well as I do that it was used and still considered as a centre of worship. For centuries to come wars were fort by all religions in Jerusalem.

Please answer that point.

They were no longer God's chosen people a special possession which God had protected throughout history prior to 70 C.E.

That is the point that is being made.

 

[cjd]

Given that the new testament wasn't written until around 70AD (let's say 60-100) and given the political situation, it wasn't much of a bloody prediction.

And considering that after the walls had come tumbling down the end of the world was due to follow, it seems a little silly to make much of the puny fulfilled prophecy whilst ignoring the second rather more important one. Don't you agree?

 

[Subbynet]

They were no longer God's chosen people a special possession which God had protected throughout history prior to 70 C.E.

That is the point that is being made.

Here you go DCE - have a goal post, feel free to move it any time you wish.

Your point is only correct if the prophecy is correct, and you cannot answer the point about Jerusalem still being a major place of worship - which according to you was meant to end.

 

[DCE]

Here you go DCE - have a goal post, feel free to move it any time you wish.

Your point is only correct if the prophecy is correct, and you cannot answer the point about Jerusalem still being a major place of worship - which according to you was meant to end.

Since what year and by whom?

 

[Subbynet]

Since what year and by whom?

Since the beginning of time and by all three of the Abrahamic religions. Even today we have a power struggle between the Jewish state of Israel and the predominately Muslim Palestinian people.

 

[DCE]

Since the beginning of time and by all three of the Abrahamic religions. Even today we have a power struggle between the Jewish state of Israel and the predominately Muslim Palestinian people.

Since when did the Jews move back into the land and become a recognized state?

Who took over from the Jews from 70 C.E. as being God's chosen people.

 

[Subbynet]

Since when?

Please expand... I have no idea what your asking. I thought I just answered this point.

 

[DCE]

Please expand... I have no idea what your asking. I thought I just answered this point.

Since when did the Jews move back into the land and become a recognized state?

Who took over from the Jews from 70 C.E. as being God's chosen people.

 

[Subbynet]

Since when did the Jews move back into the land and become a recognized state?

The "Recognised" state is a trick on your part, as it only has to be recognised by its own people. Those who control the land make the rules.

Who took over from the Jews from 70 C.E. as being God's chosen people.

Lots of people took over, repeatedly over history (Jews, Christians, Muslims), and the Jews are back in charge right now.

As for the "God's chosen people" part, again this is another red-herring, and accordingly the Jews will say its them, the Muslims will say its them, and the Christians will say its them...

 

[DCE]

The "Recognised" state is a trick on your part, as it only has to be recognised by its own people. Those who control the land make the rules.



Lots of people took over, repeatedly over history (Jews, Christians, Muslims), and the Jews are back in charge right now.

As for the "God's chosen people" part, again this is another red-herring, and accordingly the Jews will say its them, the Muslims will say its them, and the Christians will say its them...

Who do you think the true religion is, are they all approved by God, what do you think?

 

[Subbynet]

Who do you think the true religion is, are they all approved by God, what do you think?

I think a real God wouldn't want anyone to pray to them or to even acknowledge there existence.

Anyways, why would God choose a man-made religion? Shouldn't God be above the idea of religion as he/she (it) knows the ultimate truth and must have created all people no matter what they believe?

 

[DCE]

I think a real God wouldn't want anyone to pray to them or to even acknowledge there existence.

Anyways, why would God choose a man-made religion? Shouldn't God be above the idea of religion as he/she (it) knows the ultimate truth and must have created all people no matter what they believe?

You are absolutely right in what you are saying "Why would God choose a man-made religion?

He would not, you have hit it right on the button.

So if what you are saying is correct than, all the religions on the earth must be false?

 

[Subbynet]

You are absolutely right in what you are saying "Why would God choose a man-made religion?

He would not, you have hit it right on the button.

So if what you are saying is correct than, all the religions on the earth must be false.

Absolutely... They're all false, created by man for the purposes of controlling man.

 

[DCE]

Absolutely... They're all false, created by man for the purposes of controlling man.

So they create fear in man saying, if you do not do what I am telling you, you will go to a place called Hell, but if you pay me money I will pray for you, so your loved one's don't go to hell and into everlasting torment.

Total rubbish would you agree?

F.E.A.R. False Evidence Appearing Real

 

[Subbynet]

So they create fear in man saying, if you do not do what I am telling you, you will go to a place called Hell, but if you pay me money I will pray for you, so your loved one's don't go to hell and into everlasting torment.

Total rubbish would you agree?

F.E.A.R. False Evidence Appearing Real

That's pretty much how all people are forced into doing something.

Mums tell the kids to eat all their dinner, otherwise you get no pudding.
Police tell drivers not to drink, otherwise you'll get a ticket.
A mugger would say give me all your money or I'll break your legs.

If you can show that to be false evidence, then you have a point.

Don't you agree?

 

[DCE]

That's pretty much how all people are forced into doing something.

Mums tell the kids to eat all their dinner, otherwise you get no pudding.
Police tell drivers not to drink, otherwise you'll get a ticket.
A mugger would say give me all your money or I'll break your legs.

If you can show that to be false evidence, then you have a point.

Don't you agree?

If you buy a TV, the fear factor comes into play, you must insure it because it could break down.

£12 a month should do it.

You have your TV working for ten years, it would have cost you £1440.00 in payments to cover it, fear factor, what a money spinner, the TV only cost you £200.00

Church's etc, have become rich with the use of the fear factor would you agree?

 

[Subbynet]

If you buy a TV, the fear factor comes into play, you must insure it because it could break down.

£12 a month should do it.

You have your TV working for ten years, it would have cost you £1440.00 in payments to cover it, fear factor, what a money spinner, the TV only cost you £200.00

Church's etc, have become rich with the use of the fear factor would you agree?

Your question actually proves my point. For some reason you think £12 per month for a £200 TV is a good deal? Some people might think so, but others would know its a scam.

Have your exaggerated the cost of insurance to induce "fear factor" for the point your wishing to make?

 

[cjd]

Apparently the threat of hell is a fear factor, but the threat of death with no chance of an afterlife isn't. The reason for this is that JWs have preferred not to believe in Hell.

"Believe this and you won't go to hell" = Threat
"Believe this and you won't die" = Opportunity

Simple really.

 

[DCE]

Apparently the threat of hell is a fear factor, but the threat of death with no chance of an afterlife isn't. The reason for this is that JWs have preferred not to believe in Hell.

"Believe this and you won't go to hell" = Threat
"Believe this and you won't die" = Opportunity

Simple really.

(1 Corinthians 15:25-26) 25*For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. 26*As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing.*.*.

Believe it or not, it will happen, its that simple.

 

[Top Hat]

Believe it or not, it will happen, its that simple.

No it won't

 

[cjd]

Believe it or not, it will happen, its that simple.

Jolly odd think to choose to believe in. Why can't you believe is something nice instead?

 

[bdw]

Jehovah’s Witnesses do not claim to be inspired prophets. They have made mistakes. Like the apostles of Jesus Christ, they have at times had some wrong expectations.

I ask again, have you ever got anything right?

 

[DCE]

I ask again, have you ever got anything right?

(Matthew 24:14) 14*And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

That is exactly what is happening today.

Jehovah’s Witnesses are doing that work.

In some 236 lands, more than seven millions of Witnesses are telling people what the Kingdom will do, and they are helping them to conform to the righteous requirements of God, whose will it is to end all suffering and pain.

(Isaiah 2:2-4) : 2*And it must occur in the final part of the days [that] the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will certainly be lifted up above the hills; and to it all the nations must stream. 3*And many peoples will certainly go and say: “Come, YOU people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, and we will walk in his paths.

That is a prophecy that is also being fulfilled today.

 

[Beachcomber]

Right - I'm now convinced DCE is a computer program, not a human being.

 

[bdw]

Jehovah’s Witnesses do not claim to be inspired prophets. They have made mistakes. Like the apostles of Jesus Christ, they have at times had some wrong expectations.

That is a prophecy that is also being fulfilled today.

I ask once again, have you ever got anything right?

.

 

[DCE]

I ask once again, have you ever got anything right?
.

Absolutely, becoming subjects of God's Heavenly Kingdom Government, which is going to bring about God's original purpose for the earth and mankind.

(Psalm 37:10-11) 10*And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more; And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be. 11*But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.

(Psalm 37:34) .Hope in Jehovah and keep his way, And he will exalt you to take possession of the earth. When the wicked ones are cut off, you will see [it].

 

[bdw]

If that's a fulfilled prophecy I am a Jehovah's Witness. Now stop the nonsense and try to discuss this intelligently - with facts.

You are not doing much to advance your organisation I am afraid but you seem to be convincing yourself if no one else.

 

[DCE]

If that's a fulfilled prophecy I am a Jehovah's Witness.

Maybe one day, you will recognize God's purpose for the earth my friend.

 

[bdw]

No, I am afraid I won't my friend.

I prefer to deal in facts and the facts are that there is no evidence whatsoever of the existence of any god and plenty of evidence that much of the stuff that was written about religion (and your prophecies) was just nonsense.

At my age I have had plenty of time to think about this, to recognise and conclude that most (all?) religions are scams devised to benefit a few at the expense of many - a way of keeping the proletariat in line if you like. These are my conclusions and they will do for me.

Enjoy the one life you have.

 

After doing some reading on here, I see why there are more religious people than there are non-religious.

 

[bdw]

I don't think there are Cath. As an old secularist I have found it encouraging to see the number of people in here who are happy to admit that they have no religion and it really is quite shocking how humanists are still excluded here in the UK.

From Last week...

For the first time humanist representatives will lay wreaths at the official Remembrance Sunday commemorations in Edinburgh and Belfast this year. However a request from the British Humanist Association (BHA) for armed forces humanists to be included at the Cenotaph in London has again been refused.

The Department for Culture, Media and Sport dismissed the BHA's request, citing 'limited space at the Cenotaph' and a need to receive permission from the Royal Household as reasons to continue the exclusion of representatives of humanist servicemen and women. In its response, the government stated that it had invited 'fourteen faith leaders' to participate, and was working closely with the 'Faiths Unit' at the Department for Communities and Local Government to ensure 'faith representation' at the ceremony.

By contrast, humanists in Scotland were issued with an invitation from the Royal British Legion Scotland to participate in the parade and lay a wreath on the stone of remembrance, humanists in Northern Ireland have been given permission to join with other representatives in the service being held in Belfast, and in at least nine areas in England, local humanist groups will be participating in remembrance events.

Why on earth should humanists be excluded from events like this because of their beliefs when all sorts of cranky, minority religions are included?

.

 

[DCE]

I don't think there are Cath. As an old secularist I have found it encouraging to see the number of people in here who are happy to admit that they have no religion and it really is quite shocking how humanists are still excluded here in the UK.

From Last week...
Why on earth should humanists be excluded from events like this because of their beliefs when all sorts of cranky, minority religions are included?.

I was surprised to learn that humanist belong to the Armed Forces.

 

[bdw]

Why did this surprise you?

:|(Perhaps you have been taking this "Onward Christian Soldiers" stuff too seriously.):|

 

[Ambassador]

Let us be tolerant of everything that we can, let us be charitable toward all that we cannot tolerate but let us not imagine for a minute that we are called upon to take a middle-of-the-road stand, never knowing exactly what we believe.

A Christian is one who has become such after deep thought ad proper consideration, who has allowed the Word of God to search his heart. He has felt the sense of his own sin and his need to be released from it. He has come to believe that Jesus Christ is the only one who can release him from his guilt and he has committed himself without equivocation or reservation to Jesus Christ as his Saviour.
Some get converted on enthusiasm and then backslide on principle.
I like the sinner who means business... he will stand up and say "I don't believe it and I won't do it!" he will give himself time to cool off. He will meditate and listed to the Word. He will give it serious thought and slowly but surely will make up his mind that the way of Christ is the way he must take and when he becomes a Christian, you've got somebody!

 

[quikshop]

He will give it serious thought and slowly but surely will make up his mind that the way of Christ is the way he must take and when he becomes a Christian, you've got somebody!

Or you could have just typed "religion is a crutch for the emotionally weak and lonely".

 

[bdw]

A Christian is one who has become such after deep thought ad proper consideration, who has allowed the Word of God to search his heart.

Actually I would say that this applies to about one in a thousand. Most christians that I know were raised to be christians by their parents (like I was in a half-hearted way). They accept it because they have never known anything else or seriously considered the alternatives. They were indoctrinated with dogma as children and basically told to believe in some god or they would rot in hell. In other words most of them are christians because they fear the consequences of being anything else.

This applies to most religions. I think I mentioned a while back that if religion was not taught to children and only presented to them in adulthood most of them would find the concept totally ridiculous.

 

[Ambassador]

Quickshop: That is what is refreshing about the Bible, it is about real people who WERE flawed and made mistakes.

To the other comment it is true that you bring up a child in the way they should go and they won't depart from it, but regardless of values or ideals you cannot escape conscience which judges conduct in the light of the moral law and excuses or accuses. Conscience refers to right and wrong and the relation of the individual to that which is right or wrong. It is individual and exclusive, it singles you out as though nobody else existed, an inward and moral awareness. A light that lighteth every man.

 

[cjd]

Conscience refers to right and wrong and the relation of the individual to that which is right or wrong. It is individual and exclusive, it singles you out as though nobody else existed, an inward and moral awareness. A light that lighteth every man.

And what has knowing right from wrong got to do with religion?