Worldpay Mobile - does anyone use it? Sounds too good to be true!

[TheBigCheese]

Hi everyone

As I was looking for business card threads list night I came upon someone suggesting Worldpay Mobile for card payments (yes I'm obviously rubbish at searching the forum! )

Currently I use Streamline through the FSB and pay:
£15 + VAT a month rental
£4 + Vat a month to upgrade it to a broadband terminal
£10 minimum service charge a month (sometimes hit this as many customers pay cash)
40p per debit card
2% per credit card

Worldpay Mobile seems to be a terminal that talks to your mobile via bluetooth and uses the mobile to authenticate payments over the phone network...or I think over wifi.

The charges seem to be just pay for what you use without even a terminal charge.

The charges are:
65p per debit card
3.3% per credit card

This sounds brilliant for me, especially as it's wire free except for charging (anything to cut down on wires is welcome) but I wonder what I'm missing...it sounds too good to be true.

I don't like that it says it can around 30 seconds to authenticate...I've decided to upgrade my normal terminal because of the time it takes to process transactions.

I think customer not present transactions have to be done via a website as well which is a bit weird.

So...has anyone used one? Got one? Had one?

What do you think of it? How do customers find not getting an automatically printed receipt?

How do you find it for customer not present transactions?

I would really appreciate any replies as this could potentially save me a really good dollop of cash a year!


Thanks.

 

[Talay]

You need to understand that this is not just wire free but mobile. You can get wireless bluetooth terminals which are good for a few metres from the base station but this Worldpay one is truly mobile, based on the connectivity of your mobile as you say.

You can take customer not present (CNP) payments as answered in their FAQ here https://mobile.worldpay.com/faqs

I have this and the Elavon Mobile Merchant. Elavon is not limited to £25k, though Worldpay does not say what will happen when you reach £25k (they are hardly going to stop business with you are they ). I have the ability to run 100% CNP through Elavon, though they would be more happy to limit it to 80% I believe. Any initial nonsense about maxing out at 20% CNP was swiftly blown away.

Elavon is £99 to "buy" or £10 a month for 12 months. No further payments are due and no minimums per month.

I need mobile, so I am faced with higher costs than a fixed terminal, which is itself another rip off but I'm using Worldpay more as it offers 65p on debit cards against the Elavon 2.95% on everything. Break even is £22.03 when 65p per item starts to be cheaper than 2.95%. The Worldpay 3.3% on credit cards against the Elavon 2.95% is marginal. Of course, I have not included the extra Elavon £99 one off fee here.

I got Elavon first. If Worldpay had been out then, I may well have taken that and not taken Elavon. However, we will soon come up against the £25k on Worldpay and it will be interesting to see what they do then. My guess is that it will simply be removed after the trial is over or before for half decent customers.

 

[Websitehandyman]

Well can't comment on this product but I used Worldpay for many years without any problems. The agreement I was on was cheaper then paypal with not monthly fee at all. But when they changed the terms I couldn't then afford to stay with them so that's a pity.

 

[TheBigCheese]

Thank you both for those replies!

Especially thank you Talay for such a detailed answer. I'm going to read through it carefully with my partner and probably come back with a few more questions about it!

It does sound like a really good and most importantly, cheap solution!

One thing I'm not clear on, is the transaction sent through the phone as a standard data transfer...it doesn't do anything with dialling through the phone does it?

Do they just use the 3G connection or will they use wifi if it's available (which it is all the time).

I also saw that it said transactions can take up to 30 seconds to process which is quite a while to stand there with a customer, is that normal or can it be quicker if it's over wifi (assuming that feature is there)?

Thanks!

 

[Talay]

I can't confirm whether it is actually using the phone's mobile connection or the internet connection to process the transaction but it isn't a lengthy process. It is certainly quicker than when you go to a shop and they are not always on and have to wait for the machine to dial up a connection.

I guess they have to cover their backsides with a "can take up to 30 seconds" statement.

Is it cheap ? Yes and no. It isn't cheap if you could process at 20p a debit card and 1% for credit cards. If you are on low volumes then that extra 2% against a £20 minimum would be an extra £1000 in sales.

What is significant is that customers are far happier to put their cards into what looks like a real machine than one of these mini card readers attached to the phone. I think that comes from familiarity with card readers. They have also heard of Worldpay and sometimes Elavon and it is an easier convince than some izettle nonsense or other "homemade" type of processor.

Some will obviously get differing feedback but that is what I have experienced.

 

[TheBigCheese]

Well I've just realised after pondering why the Worldpay Mobile site doesn't have a sign up option, that it's just a trial at the moment! *facepalm*

So I'm now looking at the Elavon option that you use...seems to be exactly the same idea!

 

[chalkie99]

Hope not because I have just signed up and, if you think about it, Talay says he is using it already.

I have had to post off a direct debit mandate as part of the proces so would be pretty sure it is available.

Go to https://mobile.worldpay.com/ and enter your e-mail in the box to the right.

You get an email with a link to go through the application though, to my surprise, my mail went straight to the junk folder so I almost missed it.

Whilst I am replying , many thanks to Talay for great information. This really does look better than the other new to market options I have been studying. Talay, can you give a time estimate for set up?

 

[smo]

Ours was set up and working in about a week.

Its been really good, we've not used it much as its only for when we are out and about at a show or christmas fiar type event but for the no-fee convenience it far outweighs the slightly higher card charges than our other merchant accounts.

The system works well, connection is bluetooth to a smartphone and the android app is simple to use and works through 3G over the mobile network. I dont know if it would use wifi if that was available as generally we're in a field or such like.

Obvious drawbacks are mobile reception - it has no online fallback should that not be available but they do give you card slips so I presume we could manually process the details later if needs be.

The receipt system is very clever, a mobile number or email address and within seconds the purchaser has a receipt.

All in all we are very impressed with ours.

 

[TheBigCheese]

Hope not because I have just signed up and, if you think about it, Talay says he is using it already.

You've signed up to the Worldpay mobile version? How did you go about doing that?


I think for us at least we can't actually do it. I was speaking to Elavon yesterday and they told me that customer transactions have to be 80% face to face and only 20% customer not present...we over 50% of ours are CNP so it's ruled it out completely.

I don't think I'm going to be able to get round having a mobile terminal take over from a static terminal!

 

[chalkie99]

You've signed up to the Worldpay mobile version? How did you go about doing that?

Er........ as described in my reply.

On the link I gave you look at the box on the right side which says "Sign up today".

Enter your email address in the first box.

Confirm your email address in the second box.

Click the "Sign Up" button.

You will receive an email instantly with a one time only log in link. Log into this choosing your own password.

Now you have various forms to fill in such as Company Number, trading length, etc. etc.

There is a part where you have to estimate CNP, maybe you could enter a low percentage to get accepted and then see what happens?

After submission you get a confirmation email and you need to print off a direct debit mandate to allow them to bill the commission which you send Freepost to an address in Gateshead.

 

[Lucky7CompSolutions]

Most of the mobile solutions i have read are pilot schemes so nothing is set in stone but i suppose it depends on how much interest they receive.

 

[Lucky7CompSolutions]

Quickbooks are doing it in the UK now http://www.intuit.co.uk/mobile-payment-solutions/pilot-register.jsp

 

[TheBigCheese]

Er........ as described in my reply.

On the link I gave you look at the box on the right side which says "Sign up today".

D'oh! I wasn't awake when I read that reply. Thanks!

I've contacted Worldpay and I'm waiting for them to ring me back...been waiting half the morning now, I thought they'd be keener for sales!

I'd rather know what the CNP limit is before going ahead, I'd like to cancel my normal terminal and use this, which would save me £300+ a year in rental alone!

I'm a bit bothered that they may chuck me out of the trail if I go over the CNP limit or if they withdraw the trail or go live with the product and put the prices up. If for any reason I needed to cancel it I'd have to take out a new contract rather than just have it rolling which is a pain...hmmm frying pan or potential fire...

 

[RyanMitchell]

I see alot of Mobile Payment Companies nowdays..

Here's another one : https://www.judopay.com/

2.9% + 29p sounds cheaper than the others.

 

[smo]

The problem with judopay and other no-name companies with the ammount of fraud about will your customers be entirely happy using them and do their terminals and systems look as professional as the big guys?

 

[chalkie99]

I see alot of Mobile Payment Companies nowdays..

Here's another one : https://www.judopay.com/

2.9% + 29p sounds cheaper than the others.

Depends on the sale value. eg £10 sale on Worldpay costs 33p while on JudoPay it would be 58p.

Also remember that Worldpay charge a fixed fee for debit cards so on a £100 sale with debit card that is 65p whereas with Judo it is ££3.19.

You have to do the maths.

Then consider the other pros and cons.

Judo doesn’t need any special hardware, so we’re able to keep our initial set-up fee incredibly low. We'll charge you when your account is activated.

So they charge a fee to set you up. If the charge for that is stated on their website it seems pretty well hidden.

Transfers are always free if you have at least £100 in your account. For smaller transfers, we deduct £1 to cover our costs

So you have to keep a "float" in your account (lending them money for free) or pay a transfer fee.

£1,000 per month processing limit - as opposed to £25k per annum Worldpay.

A company I have never heard of and my customers won't have either who work out of a multiple occupation business centre against a well established processor seen on websites throughout the world.

Even the payment process is quirky - not the chip and pin type recognised by everyone.

Not having a pop at you for your link but far too many poorly thought out systems being rushed to market and, surely, only the best one or two will survive.

 

[RyanMitchell]

I never really looked into it with that much depth. I've just seen them amongst the other's out there like izettle, square etc..

They all seem to be taking up Mobile Technology so fair play to that but I suppose over time we'll see who makes it and who doesn't.

Fascinating though, how cash is becoming the 2nd option to card payments almost! I still love CASH! =)

 

[ctrlaura]

We signed up to take part in the pilot and it has been excellent, I highly recommend.

We are an online company so take most of our payments through sage pay but we also deliver locally and attend shows which is where we have been using this.

All our customers so far have been impressed with it and enjoy receiving a receipt via text or email. The transactions don't take long, I certainly haven't waited 30 seconds so far.

Downsides, it does rely on you having mobile network. That's about it!

They have also listened to feedback from the pilot and have just introduced card not present functionality.

I initially thought it was too good to be true, but so far so good!

 

[RyanMitchell]

We signed up to take part in the pilot and it has been excellent, I highly recommend.

We are an online company so take most of our payments through sage pay but we also deliver locally and attend shows which is where we have been using this.

All our customers so far have been impressed with it and enjoy receiving a receipt via text or email. The transactions don't take long, I certainly haven't waited 30 seconds so far.

Downsides, it does rely on you having mobile network. That's about it!

They have also listened to feedback from the pilot and have just introduced card not present functionality.

I initially thought it was too good to be true, but so far so good!

Who did you pilot with?

 

[ctrlaura]

Who did you pilot with?

oops sorry I was referring to the World Pay Mobile.

 

[Talay]

Hope not because I have just signed up and, if you think about it, Talay says he is using it already.

I have had to post off a direct debit mandate as part of the proces so would be pretty sure it is available.

Go to https://mobile.worldpay.com/ and enter your e-mail in the box to the right.

You get an email with a link to go through the application though, to my surprise, my mail went straight to the junk folder so I almost missed it.

Whilst I am replying , many thanks to Talay for great information. This really does look better than the other new to market options I have been studying. Talay, can you give a time estimate for set up?

Within a couple of days they were on email asking where our direct debit mandate was and as soon as we got that delivered to them, it was all sorted within a week.

 

[Talay]

You've signed up to the Worldpay mobile version? How did you go about doing that?


I think for us at least we can't actually do it. I was speaking to Elavon yesterday and they told me that customer transactions have to be 80% face to face and only 20% customer not present...we over 50% of ours are CNP so it's ruled it out completely.

I don't think I'm going to be able to get round having a mobile terminal take over from a static terminal!

You need to play Elavon a little !

Go quiet and they'll call you. Then you talk through CNP rates. In my case, it started out as 20% and perhaps 25% but after a couple of calls it went to whatever I wanted with them suggesting 100% as possible but hitting 80% would not be a problem.

You know the gambit. You want to but ......... etc.

 

[Drip Doctor]

You need to play Elavon a little !

Go quiet and they'll call you. Then you talk through CNP rates. In my case, it started out as 20% and perhaps 25% but after a couple of calls it went to whatever I wanted with them suggesting 100% as possible but hitting 80% would not be a problem.

You know the gambit. You want to but ......... etc.

Hi Talay,

I wanted to take advantage of the discounted rate for the Worldpay machine if I am referred by a current user. I don't suppose you would do me a favour and refer me, I think they will give you a £15 Amazon voucher for your troubles!

I know it's cheeky, but it seems a bit daft paying £59.99 when I cold pay £39.99 and the referrer gets something too!!

Please feel free to PM me if you are interested.

Many thanks,

 

[smo]

I use the worldpay system and have done since beta testing. If you want a referral drop me a PM.

 

[rob's taxi]

Hi

I am a sole trader taxi business and interested in going with WorldPay to take mobile card payments. Have WorldPay still got the discounted rate terminal offer? I don't really want to pay £59.99 but if I can get it for £39.99 as someone mentioned that would be great. Can anyone advise. Thanks.

 

[LMDServicesUK]

The problem with judopay and other no-name companies with the amount of fraud about will your customers be entirely happy using them and do their terminals and systems look as professional as the big guys?

Just an observation re JudoPay, re fraud, not sure what the Poster meant but JudoPay is PCI level 1 compliant, and completely trustworthy.

It is also the fastest growing MSP in the UK currently, so we must be doing something right !

It is backed by one of the major Merchant Services Providers just like all the other major Mobile Providers. The only fraud issues we have had so far are with merchants whom we have had to close their accounts down due to fraudulent behaviour.

So just a word of warning to anyone who thinks they can open a JudoPay account and defraud us, you will not succeed..

On a more general note the Mobile solutions are very good but they are designed for 80% plus F2F instant fulfilment transactions, they are not designed to process deposits or CNP transactions.

I note Talay's comments but be careful if you sign up for a Merchant Account service and then exceed the terms of engagement you have agreed, you run the risk of having your account shut down for misuse, and if this happens no other Merchant service Provider will ever offer you a facility. So please be careful when you apply and be honest, if you are not you will be caught out.

If you are looking for comparative options check out www.cardswitcher.co.uk or www.paymentbrain.co.,uk both good sources for independent quotes / information.

Hope this helps

Mark

 

[smo]

How can Judopay be compliant with anything, according to their demo on their website you dont even enter a pin number????

What I was getting at with my origional post was quite simple - there is a LOT of fraud about, if you hand over your mobile and ask them to enter their card number without any chip/pin terminal who is going to believe its genuine and not an attempt to skim cards.

I KNOW that with my worldpay mobile terminal it looks professional and has all commmon security people expect to see in a shop - this inspires confidence, simply handing over a mobile and asking for card numbers doesnt.

 

[LMDServicesUK]

I Think you fundamentally misunderstand how Judo works.

With Judo the customer puts THEIR card details into THEIR mobile phone (simple mobile not a smart phone required), all we ask for is the Merchant ID, long card number and their CVV number. If the payment is approved both the cardholder and the Merchant get a text confirming the payment has been processed OK.

Contrary to what you believe we have had little or no resistance to this approach, if fact it is the iZettle type readers which involve putting a card in a card reader which is connected the MERCHANTS phone not yours that unsettle customers.

So again how can there be a card scamming risk if the customer is putting their details into their phone ?

However you are correct the customer must be comfortable with the methodology, and so far we have had few if any objections to this approach. Furthermore a Major benefit to the Merchant is that they will never have to register as PCI Compliant as they will never handle card holder details unlike some of the other PAYG solutions currently on the market.

Rgds

Mark

 

[smo]

Well thats certainly not clear on their website.

So, how does the customer get the app for paying? How will they get the merchant number??

It seems to be getting worse and worse, not better!

 

[LMDServicesUK]

The customer does not need an app just a simple mobile phone, and the merchant tells the customer their 6 digit ID no which they then enter as part of the transaction.

There is a free app available for both IOS and Android if you want but it is not mandatory to use the service.

It is very straightforward, I am struggling to see what is complicated about it ?

Ring a landline number, enter the merchant ID, put in the amount you are paying, your card number if you have not used the service before (otherwise we recognise your phone number and ask if you want to use the same card details), put in the amount, confirm it and finally your CVV number. If then approved they get an SMS text message, the merchant gets a confirmation of payment message.

Hope this helps.

 

[StevensOnln1]

What security is in place to prevent payments being made via Judopay using a stolen phone if that phone had previously been used with Judopay and therefore had the owner's card details stored and linked against that phone number? How do you verify that the caller ID is legitimate and hasn't been spoofed?

 

[smo]

Sounds like an awful system, no PIN security which is worldwide (almost) standard now and yet they dont use it??

Relying on a merchant and a customer to get a merchant number right on recital and entry and passing the buck of security and fraud onto the customer by making them do it all rather than the trade thus switching the responsibility and blame.

The system stinks of a fraudsters playground with little or no security and no comeback for those subject to fraud from it.

 

[LMDServicesUK]

What security is in place to prevent payments being made via Judopay using a stolen phone if that phone had previously been used with Judopay and therefore had the owner's card details stored and linked against that phone number? How do you verify that the caller ID is legitimate and hasn't been spoofed?

OK good question.

If a customer tries to use a stolen phone that is already registered with Judo and has a card registered as well, assuming the owner has not already reported it stolen, then the thief would need also to know the CVV number for the card as registered against the phone and also the expiry date (no record of this information is ever held on the phone itself) as we will always ask for one or both of these items as part of the payment process, even if the phone / card is already registered with JudoPay.

JudoPay is updated in real time from the same "hot" card and phone lists as used by the mobile networks and card schemes, so as soon as a card or phone is reported lost or stolen it is immediately blocked on the management platform that runs Judo.

With regards to the spoofing of a caller ID, this would not help as we would check the incoming number against the network "hot number" lists as part of our security processes.

This is the same for all the PAYG merchant operators, as we are all trying to ensure the likelihood of this kind of fraud is minimised.

Suffice to say whilst Judo is very simple and straightforward to use from the Merchant and customers perspective, there is some highly sophisticated technology that monitors and seeks out / tracks fraudulent behaviours, just like in the Chip & PIN world, so the risk posed by this kind of event in our experience to date has been absolutely minimal.

The sad fact is that most card fraud is still committed with PIN number abuse or card cloning through modified Chip & PIN readers rather than anything more sophisticated, hence why PCI Compliance is now such a major requirement within the industry.

 

[LMDServicesUK]

Sounds like an awful system, no PIN security which is worldwide (almost) standard now and yet they dont use it??

Relying on a merchant and a customer to get a merchant number right on recital and entry and passing the buck of security and fraud onto the customer by making them do it all rather than the trade thus switching the responsibility and blame.

The system stinks of a fraudsters playground with little or no security and no comeback for those subject to fraud from it.

Smo

I think your lack of understanding of this product shows in your comments, yes it does not use a PIN number, it uses the expiry date and CVV number, for the card in the same way as if you order goods and or services and pay for them by card over the Phone.. You never use a PIN number when ordering by phone..

Suffice to say the service is very popular and very successful, but as I will keep saying it is what the customers are happy with that is important, and as for your comments about a fraudsters paradise, how exactly ?

It is not designed for high value transactions, where the use of PIN numbers (and its inherent liability transfer away from the Merchant ) are more important.

Let us remember that this is a product for Businesses who do not or will not sign up for a conventional Merchant account with terminal, PCI Compliance etc.

It is an entry level service to enable people to offer a service like all the other PAYG products out there.

Once they outgrow it they move to a more conventional solution having proved the value of such a facility to their business.

Perhaps you have been bitten either as a Merchant or a consumer, so in which case you must do what you think is right, based on your own personal experience, but please do not make wide ranging comments about a solutions security, when you are not in full possession of all the facts as to how it operates, or infer it is inherently unsafe when you have no empirical evidence to support such a position.

We like every other Merchant Service Provider are regulated by Visa, MasterCard, the FSA and various other Financial Regulatory Authorities, and I am very happy to report the only fraud we have had to deal with so far is dodgy merchants..

If we let our Merchants and customers down they won't be our customers for very long..

Mark

 

[rob's taxi]

Hi

I have checked WorldPay's website and if a friend refers you they are still offering a £15 Amazon voucher for the referrer and £20 off the terminal for the new user. Can I be cheeky and ask if there is anyone who would be willing to refer me? If so I would be really grateful if you could you PM me.

I am rather sceptical about Judopay as it is only an App on a mobile phone. I am not happy to hand my mobile over to my customers especially when some of them can be very drunk after a night out! Also a terminal with Worldpay does look more professional and gives customers added piece of mind and security with entering their PIN.

Thanks
Rob

 

[LMDServicesUK]

Hi Rob

You should go with what you are comfortable with however with Judo , the customer uses THEIR mobile phone to make the payment not yours, you just tell them your 6 digit Judo ID when making the payment, and there is no app required to do the payment. It is an option if the customer uses Judo regularly that they can download if they have a smartphone.

Re the very drunk angle, you will have the same challenges whichever system you go with but our feedback has been you guys cope with this as a normal operational hazard !

Hope you find a helpful member re the referral..

Kind regards

Mark

 

[Drip Doctor]

Hi,

Just got my Worldpay pay as you go chip & pin reader this morning, but no joy bluetooth connecting it to my phone. Got frustrated with it and rang the helpline: apparently I have the wrong type of phone - you need one with not only above version 2.1 android, but also one with a high pixel density screen as well.

They offered to refund the cost of the reader and sympathised with my situation given that the website does not mention this limitation which I would have checked before I paid for it had I know.

Also, the reader is the crap square looking one not the swish one with the visa logos, so all in all not very many dotted I's and crossed T's all round.

In case anyone else has a Samsung Galaxy Ace - it won't work!!

 

[LMDServicesUK]

And you all criticise Judo for being "too simple"..

All you need with us is a simple SMS capable mobile phone !

Sorry I do sympathise really, and WorldPay should have made it clearer as to what their min requirements were on their Website, I hope you get a full refund..

Please PM me if you want to know more about JudoPay.

Rgds

Mark

 

[smo]

Smo

I think your lack of understanding of this product shows in your comments, yes it does not use a PIN number, it uses the expiry date and CVV number, for the card in the same way as if you order goods and or services and pay for them by card over the Phone.. You never use a PIN number when ordering by phone..

Suffice to say the service is very popular and very successful, but as I will keep saying it is what the customers are happy with that is important, and as for your comments about a fraudsters paradise, how exactly ?

It is not designed for high value transactions, where the use of PIN numbers (and its inherent liability transfer away from the Merchant ) are more important.

Let us remember that this is a product for Businesses who do not or will not sign up for a conventional Merchant account with terminal, PCI Compliance etc.

It is an entry level service to enable people to offer a service like all the other PAYG products out there.

Once they outgrow it they move to a more conventional solution having proved the value of such a facility to their business.

Perhaps you have been bitten either as a Merchant or a consumer, so in which case you must do what you think is right, based on your own personal experience, but please do not make wide ranging comments about a solutions security, when you are not in full possession of all the facts as to how it operates, or infer it is inherently unsafe when you have no empirical evidence to support such a position.

We like every other Merchant Service Provider are regulated by Visa, MasterCard, the FSA and various other Financial Regulatory Authorities, and I am very happy to report the only fraud we have had to deal with so far is dodgy merchants..

If we let our Merchants and customers down they won't be our customers for very long..

Mark

Never been bitten as I dont use dodgy services

I'm a merchant with multiple merchant accounts and processing tens of throusands of transactions. We've not had a chargeback in 21 years and have never suffered fraud either so I must know something as clearly we're doing it right around here!

The whole idea of handing over merchant numbers and expecting people to ring up a 3rd party and pay is just rediculous and I dont see how any consumer with all their marbles would trust such a system.

 

[LMDServicesUK]

Hi Smo

You are obviously an established Merchant to whom Judo would never fit your business requirements, it is designed for businesses who have never taken card payments before and do not want to have to take out a conventional contract with all the associated costs and restrictions or just want to try out the demand without making a major financial commitment.

Again what is hard about ringing an easy to remember landline number and them quoting a 6 digit number as provided/displayed by the Merchant.

I agree Judo would not suit your business as you are already established so would not need such an entry level solution, but I can only observe that the success of the service to date suggests customers are more than happy to use the service, and have very little concerns with regards the way it works.

Kind regards

Mark