Windows update problem (Surprise, surprise)

[Ashley_Price]

Okay, I have had Windows 10 since it rolled out late last year and had no major problems with it.

This morning I come in to find it needs to make a major update - I wasn't overly concerned because this has happened a couple of times since having Windows 10 and all went smoothly.

After getting to about 70-odd percent updated the computer rebooted (no surprise, it said it may need to do this several times, and had done it at around 25% updated). When it came back up it went to a black screen with the circle of dots just going round and round.

After an over an hour nothing had changed so I began to wonder if it had just got stuck (I had seen this happen before). So, I crossed my fingers, powered down the PC then restarted. It started to boot up, but then came a message saying "Attempting to recover installation" then went back to the black screen with the circle of dots. And again it has now been like this for nearly three-quarters of an hour.

Do I just leave it, should I try rebooting again or is this the sign of something majorly wrong? I cannot get on with any work, etc., until the PC is working again. So I am stuck here looking at the dots going round.

Any advice?

 

[fisicx]

Sell the computer and tell the wife you are going to bed for the rest of the year.

If the above isn't acceptable take it to your nearest PC repair man and hope for the best.

 

[Ashley_Price]

Oh great! It turns out this is a major update and I shouldn't have rebooted. I now have to wait and see what happens, but it could be hours... and I might have messed it up as it was writing to the operating system when I rebooted.

 

[Ashley_Price]

Sell the computer and tell the wife you are going to bed for the rest of the year.

If the PC cannot sort itself out, I may well be doing this!

 

[scstock]

Can you revert to the last backup?

 

[SteveHa]

I've had exactly the same here - except I get stuck in a complete boot loop. The only fix has been to revert back to the previous build and defer all updates going forward.

 

[Ashley_Price]

I was told by my tech support firm that now, because I rebooted, I have to wait and see if the computer can continue to finish the update as it was probably writing to the OS at the time I rebooted, and should have left it be.

Having rebooted could have corrupted it. It is STILL at the small dots going round, but I was told it could take hours now. I am probably going to leave it until the morning and see if there are any changes when I come in.

Fortunately, I remembered most of my stuff is "in the cloud" so I can just log on from another machine and carry on as normal.

 

[14Steve14]

I recently had this large update and did wonder about switching everything off when it appeared to have stalled, but decided not to. The update completed in a few hours and everything seems to be working correctly. Saying that it has changed lots of things.

Hope your completed successfully in the end.

 

[Bradley Holmes]

The fact that it was a massive update really should have been communicated before it started.
It took one of the machines in the office here a full hour to update the other day.

How is your computer looking this morning?

 

[John Blakeman]

With the latest Windows 10 Update, Anniversary Edition, build 1607, Redstone 1. There's an Active Hours option that stops reboots during times you're likely at your computer working.

Slightly ironic that this is the update that is causing your trouble during office hours.

 

[Ashley_Price]

Slightly ironic that this is the update that is causing your trouble during office hours.

I usually get into the office at 8am and I don't leave the PCs on overnight. So, as soon as I switched on it started the update.

The only "clue" was the evening before when I shut down the PC is said it needed to install updates, but then it often does that anyway.

Anyway, I now have the PC back, all working well and fully updated, plus all my files are intact.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

It says a lot about the brains of the developers of these systems that they cannot supply a moving % Bar that works so you are not left wondering, it's no wonder we get such crap software when they do not understand the basics of looking after the owner of the machine

 

[Ashley_Price]

I guess it's like most things, when you're designing something, you set it up how you know it works... forgetting that others won't see it that way. Who would think to "focus group" an installation and upgrade screen to see how people would prefer it to be.

 

[John Blakeman]

Creating an accurate % bar is counter productive, programmers can only go on estimates.
Ask Google the question:
why are there no accurate percentage bars or time estimates

HowToGeek dot com has a good article.

"Ultimately, the progress bar inaccuracy boils down to the fact that it is trying to determine a time for something that is nondeterministic. Because computers process tasks both on demand and in the background, it is almost impossible to know what system resources will be available at any point in the future – and it is the availability of system resources which is needed for any task to complete."

In other words if a program was running at 100% CPU we'd get more accurate estimates. However there wouldn't be any CPU left to handle impromptu mouse and keyboard inputs or updates to the monitor with where your mouse cursor has gone, making your user experience rather crap.

 

[fisicx]

There is still the whole issue of automatic updates. Back in the good old days, Windows would let you know there was an update, you could check which ones you wanted and then make your own decision about when to update. All of that flexibility has gone. You can't even prevent the update, you can delay in some versions but you can't stop it happening.

I understand all the guff about keeping things up to date but it shouldn't be forced on me, I like to have control over my PC and what I do with it. And have to reset everything each time there is an update.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

It does not have to be a % bar just a counter showing present and final count

 

[ffox]

It does not have to be a % bar just a counter showing present and final count

After getting to about 70-odd percent updated the computer rebooted (no surprise, it said it may need to do this several times, and had done it at around 25% updated).

But, it's still an estimate. I have 3 Win 10 machines, all similar spec, yet the same update will take vastly different times to complete. There are too many variables.
Auto updates are always going to be an issue, it's the same with Android and IOS. The problem with switching auto off and doing selective updates is that eventual you find yourself needing something that requires an OS update from way back and you then have the task of applying either a rollup or several interdependent updates to get where you need to be.
MS really do need to include notification of the update size at the time of the 'updates are required' message. Then at least we'll know what measure of pain is due.
The alternative of shifting across to Linux with all the manual configuration is just too much for most individuals or SMBs to consider.
The OP did get his machine back with no further intervention, so I guess that says something good about the update process. However, even if the PC had not recovered it could have been rebuilt from scratch quite easily with Win 10, especially if it had been properly backed up.

 

[The Byre]

Everywhere I look, I see people screaming from the rooftops about auto-update problems with Windows 10.

Many of these updates mean that older programmes stop working.

On the 'progress bar' topic - we have an industrial machine that has several processes that it has to go through and all these have progress bars. We know that the bar is not a perfect representation of time - we ain't THAT thick! - but it is there to tell us that it is working and to tell us what part of the process it is at.

That's all people require - rocket science it am not!

 

[ffox]

Many of these updates mean that older programmes stop working.

I've not seen this - apps that work with Win 7 will generally run okay on 8, 8.1 and 10. Do you have any specific references?

There is a percentage counter -

After getting to about 70-odd percent updated the computer rebooted (no surprise, it said it may need to do this several times, and had done it at around 25% updated).

It's just that it has no relationship to real time. For example 70% may take 1 hour, but the remaining 30% may take 3 hours. Even on identical spec machines the updates take different amounts of time.

 

[The Byre]

Do you have any specific references?

I'll have a shoofti and report back - it's mostly plug-ins to other programmes that get the wobbles, though a few oldies, like 'Flying Fonts' just stop altogether.

It's just that it has no relationship to real time.

We don't want or need a time - just for any programme that is doing something that takes more than a few seconds to tell us (1) WHAT it is doing, (2) how far it has got with that part of the process, (3) that it is actually still working and has not lapsed into a coma or is caught in a "10 goto 10" loop!

 

[fisicx]

It keeps wanting to update programmes and features I have disabled or removed. That's why I want the control back. And it wants to install things I will never ever need.

 

[Ashley_Price]

The problem/issue was more than likely my fault for turning off the machine, when I shouldn't have done.

I've never had a problem with updates before.

There's an Active Hours option that stops reboots during times you're likely at your computer working.

Interestingly, the computer has just said it needs to restart and I can either have it done outside of active hours, or restart now. I will leave the PC on this evening so it can restart outside of active hours. I just hope I don't come in tomorrow and find the PC not working again.

 

[ffox]

The problem/issue was more than likely my fault for turning off the machine, when I shouldn't have done.

I've never had a problem with updates before

I ran this update on a Linx 10 32GB overnight last night. Can't say how long it took, but it was fine this morning. The only issue was that there was insufficient space on the C: drive and I had to designate running it from an SSD card.

Another thought on this though. Computers, for me, are business tools and the biggest issue is that of lost time while a PC updates or repairs itself. If a business critical computer dies and cannot be recovered it is the cost of the down time to the business that matters more than the value of the computer. I recently purchased a new Surface tablet. The time from unboxing to a level where I could use it effectively - just 53 minutes.
That has to be a plus for Windows 10.

 

[Ashley_Price]

If a business critical computer dies and cannot be recovered it is the cost of the down time to the business that matters more than the value of the computer.

If you have computers that are that critical to your business, then you should have them on a maintenance and support contract.

Admittedly, my computer wasn't THAT important, but it was about half a dozen files that were on there that I needed (now backed up). I could have got along quite easily without the PC that went down because so much of my stuff is "in the cloud".

 

[ffox]

If you have computers that are that critical to your business, then you should have them on a maintenance and support contract.

Having worked in IT since 1986 and in IT support for much of that time I have to say that, sadly, maintenance and support of even the highest level will not get a critical computer back on line very fast. SLAs only ever guarantee a response time and rarely a fix time. The thing about Win 10 is that a replacement PC can be up and on line very much faster. That is the case wheather the machine is built by the user, or by support.

 

[Ashley_Price]

Here we go again...

So, yesterday the computer said it needed to restart and could do so either outside of active hours, or "restart now". I told it to restart outside of active hours. Left the PC when leaving the office at 5pm, came in this morning to find the black screen with the little dots going round again. Been like it for over two hours now. Grrrr.

 

[Bradley Holmes]

When you took the computer in to get fixed did they say anything about the HD being old? Maybe it´s on the way out.

 

[Ashley_Price]

When you took the computer in to get fixed did they say anything about the HD being old? Maybe it´s on the way out.

When my tech support took the PC away, they never said it was getting old, the whole unit is only about 3 years old.

 

[John Blakeman]

You could run a diagnostic program called Seatools from Seagate on your computer overnight to determine the health of your hard drive for peace of mind.

 

[Ashley_Price]

You could run a diagnostic program called Seatools from Seagate on your computer overnight to determine the health of your hard drive for peace of mind.

I could... but not while it's sitting there with the little white dots going round.

Plus, I've read somewhere that these tools can sometimes be harmful to an aging HD?!

 

[John Blakeman]

To have a chance of being harmful to your HDD it would need to be on the edge of failing, which would mean anything that accesses the drive could push it over the edge... booting Windows, loading programmes or files, saving etc..

You could use a programme called HDD Tune, a free (for personal use) tool, that can view the internal SMART data of your HDD (an internal health meter). This data can also give you an idea of how far gone a HDD is and is less likely to cause a poorly HDD to give out while performing the check.

 

[SteveHa]

The time from unboxing to a level where I could use it effectively - just 53 minutes. That has to be a plus for Windows 10.

Bah. I installed Linux Mint to a bare machine for my girlfriend, and fully updated yesterday in 20 minutes.

 

[Paul Pitchford]

Hi,

I doubt that this is hardware related based on the fact the machine seems to operate OK once booted. If you can get the machine booted into "Last Known Good Configuration" it may be worth clearing the Windows Update cache and letting it download and do the upgrade again as my gut feeling it that the update doesn't seem to be working as it should; maybe missing files or corruption based on the reboot mid update.

If it won't boot into a "Last Known Good Configuration" then boot to Safe Mode and try to use System Restore to restore the O/S to an earlier restore point prior to the first update and then do as mentioned above.

Hope you find a resolution.

Paul.

 

[Craiga24]

Hi there,

I only found this place by this post so thank you for that haha

Windows 10 is a bit of a nightmare especially when it comes to updates and this anniversary edition(Ill get to that)

As for the tools. It is worth just checking the S.M.A.R.T. This is information on the state of the drive. An excellent tool I use it a free tool called HDDSCAN. Install and select your drive and click the smart button. What you are looking for is any warning triangles especially on the Current pending count. Regardless of what some advise this is not usually a good sign, yes your hard drive may last a bit longer but it will fail. Consider backing up the drive and replacing it. What you want is greens across the board when you get the S.M.A.R.T report from HDDscan.

With regards to the updates they could be related to the hard drive failing or one of many things. In my experience (I also run a small computer repair business) it may be that the update fiels are corrupted due to the mid update shutdown or there is some other corruption on the files.

I would recommend cleaning out the software distribution folder, running a disk clean on the drive and then restarting the update procedure. (see link below there is a guide on how to do this half way through)

As for the windows anniversary update I have had no end of problems with updates for customers and bizarrely a problem with the system partition is becoming a common solution in my experience. I have been asked about this that often and had to do it that many times that I actually wrote and article on it to refer people to.

Just realised it wont let me post links yet so you will have to search for hddscan via google. The post I refer to on our site can be found by going to the our blog section of our website and is title

"Windows 10 Anniversary Update Problems and solutions"

I am sure your tech guys will have the issue in hand for you but if you need any advice feel free to drop me a PM Ashley

Craig

 

[Ashley_Price]

It's all been sorted thanks, and computer all fine and dandy again.

 

[SteveHa]

@Craiga24, from your blog, "In particular one that prevents the update from been installed and sends the PC into a reboot loop was rather frustrating."

Which solution fixed this. It's driving us nuts on my work computer.

 

[Paul Pitchford]

Microsoft released a fix for this yesterday according to their reports. You can find it by searching Google for "Windows 10 1607 Script Fix". Sorry I can't post a direct link but I do not have enough posts right now.

Hope that helps.

 

[Craiga24]

Hi SteLacca,

I found this was caused by 2 things. The OS build version caused an update to get stuck. You can resolve this by running the upgrade assistant (solution 3) What we also found tho was that the upgrade assistant would not run because the partition was too small. So if the upgrade assistant fails look at increasing the SYSTEM Partition by a couple of hundred MB to allow the upgrade to run (solution 5)

I feel for you I have had another couple that have failed in different ways just yesterday (customer PCS) so I am now trying to find a solution for those issues. This update is becoming the bane of my life hahah

Edit: Thanks Paul gonna have a look at that

 

[Paul Pitchford]

If you've got more machines with the same problem @Craig24, I'd give the fix a try from Microsoft. It's an official patch for the anniversary update. May save you messing with the system partition etc.

 

[SteveHa]

The upgrade assistant had failed on a previous attempt, as had the full iso. Trying the script fix, now. There's no issue with the system partition. Disk isn't partitioned into multiples, and has a couple of hundred GB free.

Fingers crossed, guess I'll know in an hour or so. Good job I'm not bad busy today.