Why do some people

[52Carman]

Why is it the people who do not have much money moan about the rich and grumble. Also why do people who do not have that much money always buy materials items on finance get into massive amounts of debt just for a car etc? They have to know its the entrepreneurs who offer them jobs so why moan?

Take for example my wife's mum she works at Currys and always asks me for money like loan for a new car and said if I had this much money etc but yet again she blows half her wages a week on doing the lottery regardless of the odds. Don't get me wrong they are really nice people just moan about people who have success? I am also a down to earth man not stuck up my own backside. I am just curious as to why this happens?

I have tried to ignore it but its people I know it seems to me. People who do have money do not show it off (exempt some I know). Then you have the people who do not have much money seem to get finance and live well out of their means and income bracket? - Why does this happen?

I feel like saying I work very hard to get where I am and I took out credit cards/ overdrafts years ago to finance me, it was never handed out to me on a plate but I know if I said this it would cause a meltdown within the family. When I sold my company it seemed to be like I turned into a charity.

How do you deal with it? -

(please keep within the subject)

P.S sorry for spelling and grammar. I know its bad I left school many years ago with 0 results.

 

[SuffolkDesigns]

I agree.
My business is relatively successful, My family doesn't want for anything yet we still drive around in a 15 year old volvo with 200,000 miles on the clock. It starts every morning and gets me where I want to go. Would never dream of taking a loan for a "nice" car. When this one dies I will probably just buy another old banger for £1000'ish for cash and get on with it.

I never borrow money for luxuries, holidays etc are all paid for up front or we don't go.

 

[MikeJ]

Did you ever get that website you were looking for here?

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=187451

 

[alwaysinamess]

I am the complete opposite to the Suffolk Designs I have always lived beyond my means and the first thing I bought when I could was BMW 5 Series 535d M Sport, I borrowed 15K from the bank saying it was for plant and machinery, I did not need to borrow it but it was there waiting for me to accept it, I only had to pay £800 back in interest over 2 years, the car was valued at 33k when I bought it, I paid about 22k for it, I think it is worth 15k - 18k now 3 years since I had it.

Each to there own but I love unsecured credit & I love using there money for anything I can, there is a difference though in that if you cant afford to use it, but I still would !

If its offered or am able to receive it I will take it.

 

[greengecko]

I am the complete opposite to the Suffolk Designs I have always lived beyond my means and the first thing I bought when I could was BMW 5 Series 535d M Sport, I borrowed 15K from the bank saying it was for plant and machinery, I did not need to borrow it but it was there waiting for me to accept it, I only had to pay £800 back in interest over 2 years, the car was valued at 33k when I bought it, I paid about 22k for it, I think it is worth 15k - 18k now 3 years since I had it.

Each to there own but I love unsecured credit & I love using there money for anything I can, there is a difference though in that if you cant afford to use it, but I still would !

If its offered or am able to receive it I will take it.

At least you're honest, most people (unfortunately) take this approach nowadays; I have no problem with this apart from if/when they moan if it turns around and bites them.

I like to buy as much as possible outright, probably from seeing the financial stress caused by debt in my upbringing.

 

[Psl]

If I don't have the cash to buy it, it doesn't get bought.

 

[Richie N]

Sorry but aren't you having a moan here?

 

[crphillips]

Oh man. Not this dude again.

 

[MikeJ]

Afraid so. Wonder if it's a BMW or Mercedes that he's driving these days.

 

[52Carman]

If I don't have the cash to buy it, it doesn't get bought.

Very simple and people should follow that.

 

[alwaysinamess]

You would never buy a house though ?

You would always be renting. I never get these thoughts. Surely if your offered credit you take it so you dont risk your own money, that is how I see it.

I never ever want to risk my money if I can use someone elses, once you have lost it, its very hard to get it back. If its not yours, it does not really matter in the grand scale of things.

 

[greengecko]

You would never buy a house though ?

You would always be renting. I never get these thoughts. Surely if your offered credit you take it so you dont risk your own money, that is how I see it.

I never ever want to risk my money if I can use someone elses, once you have lost it, its very hard to get it back. If its not yours, it does not really matter in the grand scale of things.

The only flaw I can see in your previous post of borrowing £15k for "machinery", which was used to buy a car, is that if for some reason you needed another loan in order to keep the business afloat or to invest in an area you would be unable to obtain it.

Not disagreeing on something like a mortgage, but easier to prioritise this above a flash car (just my opinion).

 

[zli205]

Consumption ability and economic ability coexist

 

[Aurora Baltika]

We want to spend money we don't have on things we don't need to impress people we don't even like.

 

[movietub]

It's a really weird thing that seems to affect British people more than any other, this disdain and jealousy of people that do well.

The working class/grass roots (PC term??) part of society seem to focus on pride in a back to front manner. I lived on a pretty trashy council estate in Sheffield for a while and people rattled on about being 'proud to be common'. Which when you think about it is nothing to be proud of at all, on the basis that you should never be proud of anything you didn't earn or achieve. Sadly generation upon generation are bought up to accept and in fact defend their supposed lot in life, it's almost like a religion. It is quite literally a class barrier.

The problem with the above belief and way of life is that it only makes sense so long as you stay within that little bubble. And any of us that live outside of that bubble are not right, we don't fit in. We prove that sustained hard work and self belief actually do work and can make things better. In most countries people that do well are seen as inspirational. Drive a sports car in Italy and the poorest person will think 'nice car - I would like one, one day'. Drive one in a poor part of the UK and at best people will deliberately ignore it or say ignorant things about it. At worst they will spit at it. I do speak from experience.

 

[businessfunding]

If I don't have the cash to buy it, it doesn't get bought.

What are you trying to do; put me out of business:|

 

[raineshoe]

You would never buy a house though ?

You would always be renting. I never get these thoughts. Surely if your offered credit you take it so you dont risk your own money, that is how I see it.

I never ever want to risk my money if I can use someone elses, once you have lost it, its very hard to get it back. If its not yours, it does not really matter in the grand scale of things.

What a horrible selfish, greedy and mean attitude, although typical of people these days.

Unfortunately, although you clearly can't see it you are not only risking everyone elses money you are ultimately risking your own too. We all pay in the long term for this greedy approach to life as we are seeing now with the problems with the banks, insurance etc.

 

[alwaysinamess]

The only flaw I can see in your previous post of borrowing £15k for "machinery", which was used to buy a car, is that if for some reason you needed another loan in order to keep the business afloat or to invest in an area you would be unable to obtain it.

That's a good point but I think if I had to then I would just sell the car, I bought it 10k under its market value, although I love it, only the business and working hard got me the car, if it had to go it would and then Id work hard to get myself back to that point.

 

[raineshoe]

If I don't have the cash to buy it, it doesn't get bought.

Same here and we have no debt apart from a mortgage which everyone has to have ultimately to buy a house.

 

[WJP]

I never ever want to risk my money if I can use someone elses

Good luck if you ever need serious investment in your business then.

 

[movietub]

I see no problem in a business borrowing, so long as it can pay it back. The cost of a loan is simply another business expense. If borrowing 100k to take advantage of a growing market costs 20k but brings in 40k extra cash then it's a good idea. It's actually good socially and economically that all our businesses can quickly get cash when it is most needed.

Borrowing money to buy a new pair of shoes or a laptop, that's a bit crazy. I really don't understand why credit cards are ever applied for!!? I mean, what good can come of such a device?

Maybe back in the day when you needed a cc to shop online or over-seas, but a debit card works just as well these days.

 

[businessfunding]

Borrowing money to buy a new pair of shoes or a laptop, that's a bit crazy.

Maybe back in the day when you needed a cc to shop online or over-seas, but a debit card works just as well these days.

But again this takes no account of circumstances or context. What if the new shoes were for an important job interview, or the laptop was a necessary tool to get your business up and running?

You would be hard pressed to set up as a litho printer without borrowing money, whereas a home based consultancy can probably be started from personal means - which is the more viable business model?

 

[alwaysinamess]

Borrowing money to buy a new pair of shoes or a laptop, that's a bit crazy. I really don't understand why credit cards are ever applied for!!? I mean, what good can come of such a device?

.

Its insured for one, and if anything goes wrong you have added protection, Debit card is a licence for people to take money and get shafted.

If you pay for items by paypal on a CC most likely you will get your money back if you have a issue, if you pay by debit card you wont.

They are couple of basic advantages, If I bought a laptop for and say it got nicked the CC company will pay out.

 

Same here and we have no debt apart from a mortgage which everyone has to have ultimately to buy a house.

How do you work that out?:|

 

[movietub]

But again this takes no account of circumstances or context. What if the new shoes were for an important job interview, or the laptop was a necessary tool to get your business up and running?

You would be hard pressed to set up as a litho printer without borrowing money, whereas a home based consultancy can probably be started from personal means - which is the more viable business model?

The rest of my post did take into account circumstances - I specifically said that borrowing money to make money is common sense, so long as it makes more money faster than saving to buy what you needed and missing an opportunity etc.

So yes, that would cover a laptop or whatever for work use - and my extension I suppose shoes for job interview!

I meant getting in to debt simply because you want to own an item that you can't afford there and then, and that won't give you any sort of return to offset the cost of borrowing.

 

[movietub]

Its insured for one, and if anything goes wrong you have added protection, Debit card is a licence for people to take money and get shafted.

If you pay for items by paypal on a CC most likely you will get your money back if you have a issue, if you pay by debit card you wont.

They are couple of basic advantages, If I bought a laptop for and say it got nicked the CC company will pay out.

All these services/insurances/guarantees provided by cc companies carry a cost which is ultimately worked in to the total cost you pay to use a card. In theory it can work if you always pay off your card, but statistically we know that doesn't happen as a rule, virtually all cc users end up paying at some point.

You can get similar levels of protection from most banks current accounts these days for a few pounds a month - along with other perks that are less useful of course. I think I pay £3 a month for a slightly upgraded account which comes with a high level of purchase protection. I don't know what the average cost is of using credit cards but I'm willing to bet its a lot more - unless we are to believe the credit card companies make no money..

 

[raineshoe]

How do you work that out?:|

What do you mean "how do I work that out?"

Easily I should have thought.

Obviously if I want to buy a house these days I'd need a mortgage to do it as very few people could buy one outright.

Apart from that I have no debt as I pay my credit cards off monthly in full and do not have any overdraft or anything else outstanding. I live within my means and if I can't pay for it I don't have it.

My business has no debt either. If we can't buy something we again don't have it.

Not difficult if you budget carefully and wisely.

 

What do you mean "how do I work that out?"

Easily I should have thought.

Obviously if I want to buy a house these days I'd need a mortgage to do it as very few people could buy one outright.

Apart from that I have no debt as I pay my credit cards off monthly in full and do not have any overdraft or anything else outstanding. I live within my means and if I can't pay for it I don't have it.

My business has no debt either. If we can't buy something we again don't have it.

Not difficult if you budget carefully and wisely.

First time buyers may have a problem paying cash in this day and age, but they only represent a quarter of house sales.

I bought my first house for 1300 quid cash before everyone went nutty.

 

[raineshoe]

First time buyers may have a problem paying cash in this day and age, but they only represent a quarter of house sales.

I bought my first house for 1300 quid cash before everyone went nutty.

Lucky you.

My Nan was always peeved as they could have bought a house in London when they were about £400.00 for a reasonable size house. My silly Grandad said "oh buying houses won't catch on" and refused to buy.... I don't think she ever forgave him that one.

 

[captaincloser]

Yeah, yeah, yeah..you are all probably correct.

What none of you can buy with cash or credit is time. Eventually the cash customer lies next to the credit card customer and time moves on.

At that point none of us own anything.

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah..you are all probably correct.

What none of you can buy with cash or credit is time. Eventually the cash customer lies next to the credit card customer and time moves on.

At that point none of us own anything.

Thats not what HMRC reckons.

You are right time is the most valuable thing we can ever have.

Funny how so many waste it.

 

[DavidAshdown]

I have to say, I find it slightly odd when people say they have never bought on credit and use the words 'if we cant afford it we dont buy it'. Its a bit naive I feel.

 

[DavidAshdown]

If I don't have the cash to buy it, it doesn't get bought.

Have you never had a mortgage ?

 

[captaincloser]

Thats not what HMRC reckons.

You are right time is the most valuable thing we can ever have.

Funny how so many waste it.

Indeed.

As for HMRC thats a job for the 'rellies' when time's up if you haven't got that organised in advance.

One of the few joys in getting older is organising stuff to screw HMRC

 

[Psl]

Have you never had a mortgage ?

Of course I have but when I replied I took it that the OP was talking about small ticket items £1,000 - £10,000 not £200k+ purchases that happen only a couple of times in our lifetimes?

 

[DavidAshdown]

Of course I have but when I replied I took it that the OP was talking about small ticket items £1,000 - £10,000 not £200k+ purchases that happen only a couple of times in our lifetimes?

I see, so in other words its ok to borrow large sums of money but not small amounts, correct ?

 

[alwaysinamess]

And its secured, which makes it the worst possible loan, CC's are unsecured so I really don't get people on this one, We all live different and I love using credit.

 

[DavidAshdown]

And its secured, which makes it the worst possible loan, CC's are unsecured so I really don't get people on this one, We all live different and I love using credit.

I'm not advocating irresponsible borrowing or for one moment suggesting people should just borrow because its there (a very big part of why the economy is in the position its in today), but there is a need in society to borrow and as long as at the time of borrowing, people feel they can afford it, then I don't get this 'If I haven't got the cash it doesn't get bought' attitude, as that simply stumps growth and prevents people from trying to enjoy better things.

Conversely, I don't get the 'buy now, pay later' attitude of lenders who simply want to sell an overpriced sofa to those who can't afford it, but structured borrowing is good.

 

[raineshoe]

I have to say, I find it slightly odd when people say they have never bought on credit and use the words 'if we cant afford it we dont buy it'. Its a bit naive I feel.

Why naive? I'd have said being sensible with your money, if you can't afford to purchase then you don't have it. Years ago you had to wait until you could afford it as there were no credit cards etc. If you live beyond your means you will eventually become a cropper and people these days buy things way beyond their means.

 

[DavidAshdown]

Why naive? I'd have said being sensible with your money, if you can't afford to purchase then you don't have it. Years ago you had to wait until you could afford it as there were no credit cards etc. If you live beyond your means you will eventually become a cropper and people these days buy things way beyond their means.

I agree with the sentiment but perhaps I should have clarified what I meant. Maybe someone cant afford to buy a house for cash but can afford it on a mortgage. In that scenario borrowing is not bad, and as I said in an earlier post, borrowing is good if used correctly, whether its for a house or a car, or anything for that matter.

Irresponsible lending and borrowing is no good for anyone and I'm dead against it but I dont believe in broad statements along the lines of 'you shouldn't buy it if you have to borrow', or 'if i havent got the cash, it isint bought' otherwise we would still all be living in poorer conditions and society, entrepreneuralism and capitalism wouldnt exist.