Why do banks use 'working days'?

[Newchodge]

These days most bank transactions are automated - Direct Debit, Standing Order, Bank Transfer, all can be set up to take place on a specific day. Unless it is a Saturday, Sunday or Bank Holiday. Why is this? Does the automation not work on a weekend? Does it need the day off to have Christmas Day with its family?

If I have a direct debit that goes out on the same date each month, and that date happens to be Good Friday, why does it have to wait until the following Tuesday until it can be paid?

My bank now has an automated cheque handling service, so if I pay a cheque into my account on Monday afternoon, the money is available in my account by the end of Tuesday. If I pay it in after 4pm on Friday it will be available .... by the end of Tuesday.

I don't understand the logic.

 

[lesliedocherty]

I would imagine that with Standing Orders and Direct Debits, there needs to be some kind of human monitoring or intervention at some point incase there are issues.

 

[Newchodge]

I would imagine that with Standing Orders and Direct Debits, there needs to be some kind of human monitoring or intervention at some point incase there are issues.

I would imagine everything that a bank does needs some kind of human intervention in case there are issues, but payments by bank card go through at weekends, is there really a difference?

 

[KM-Tiger]

Does the automation not work on a weekend?

Think it comes from the days of mainframe computers where processing transactions involved carrying magnetic tapes from one location to another.

That no longer happens, but some banks have stuck to the timetable. They get to hang on to your money for a couple of days, which suits them.

 

[Noah]

I don't understand the logic.

Interest is earned every second of every day, 365 days a year.

Or maybe I'm too cynical.

 

[DmitryAleksandrov]

It possibly happen, to search any suspicious data in transactions that require accept from bank employee.

 

[Newchodge]

It possibly happen, to search any suspicious data in transactions that require accept from bank employee.

There is no way that any human has any involvement in ongoing standard Direct Debit transactions. Have you any idea how many hundreds of thousands of those happen every day?

 

[estwig]

What do you think they do with this money, while they are hanging onto it for as long as they can?

It gets gambled on the stock market to make more money, or shuffled around to cover liabilities, it's what banks do. They make money, from your money.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Interest is earned every second of every day, 365 days a year.

Or maybe I'm too cynical.

It undoubtedly has been the case, though in the current market they derive no benefit from it

Suggesting that either they hope thise day will return or simply nobody has bothered to change things

 

[Mr D]

The banks are operating processes from centuries ago.
About time they upgraded to the 20th century.

And for all that the banks are still more modern than our local government and civil service.

 

[Gillie]

Ok so this is based on banking experience of some years ago - but knowing how quickly they change <cough> they probably still have this going on.

Using debit cards needs no human interaction - if you go over your overdraft limit - you are charged, so using them means then are not stopped by human interaction.

Standing orders and direct debits are only processed on 'working days' as they literally need someone to press the button on them.

Every morning the clerk responsible for the 'lists' goes through the ones coming up with both cheques and dd's and so's and will work out if they should be paid - ie will paying them take them way over their set (unknown to client) limit. So risk management is done on them, to work out if the bank pays them, do they stand a chance of getting the money back is the customer is already heavily in to their overdraft.

You only appear on this list if you are border line / potential issue - but the member of staff will make decisions and based on those will hit that old button that says pay em!

Yes, archaic, yes time consuming, but lets not forget (this is for us older ones!) when the bad recession of 2008/09 hit, banks were screamed at for irresponsible lending - so we can't have it both ways - we just need someone to re-invent the wheel and make it a faster process.

 

[Newchodge]

Every morning the clerk responsible for the 'lists' goes through the ones coming up with both cheques and dd's and so's and will work out if they should be paid - ie will paying them take them way over their set (unknown to client) limit. So risk management is done on them, to work out if the bank pays them, do they stand a chance of getting the money back is the customer is already heavily in to their overdraft.

You are joking aren't you? The weekend direct debit goes out first thing on the Monday, for example at about 2am. Are you seriously telling me that
(a) this process is not automated
(b) a clerk is available at 2am on Monday morning but not 9am on Saturday morning

Using debit cards needs no human interaction - if you go over your overdraft limit - you are charged, so using them means then are not stopped by human interaction.

If I try to use my debit card on a Saturday when there are insufficient funds in my account, the transaction is immediately refused. That has to be automated.

 

[AllUpHere]

You are joking aren't you? The weekend direct debit goes out first thing on the Monday, for example at about 2am. Are you seriously telling me that
(a) this process is not automated
(b) a clerk is available at 2am on Monday morning but not 9am on Saturday morning

If I try to use my debit card on a Saturday when there are insufficient funds in my account, the transaction is immediately refused. That has to be automated.

It shows as going out in the middle of the night, but they have until about 2pm to bounce the dd if they choose to.

 

[Gillie]

Did you see a smiley face throughout my post?

The Monday morning dd was done on Friday - you are aware that timed events such as dd and so's show on your account some 3 days before coming out and that funds are earmarked ahead of time? Hence when you go to cancel them online you are informed you need to do so within a set time limit - usually they ask for 48 hours.


As I mentioned, debit cards are automated - humans merely come in to play with dd's/cheques and so's!

 

[Mr D]

You are joking aren't you? The weekend direct debit goes out first thing on the Monday, for example at about 2am. Are you seriously telling me that
(a) this process is not automated
(b) a clerk is available at 2am on Monday morning but not 9am on Saturday morning

If I try to use my debit card on a Saturday when there are insufficient funds in my account, the transaction is immediately refused. That has to be automated.

LOL - I worked nights at a bank for a few weeks temping as a data entry clerk, back in the days of earning a couple of quid more temping than the staff employed by the bank. Must have been over a hundred staff in the building at 2am.
Most not doing data entry, presumably processing / account management stuff.

A few times over recent years I've gone overdrawn on bank account without realising it, card accepted despite no overdraft. Talking just 2 or 3 quid over.
I've always transferred money to cover so not had overdrawn charges. Probably automated for the few quid to allow for certain accounts - though with banks archaic processes its hard to say.

 

[Newchodge]

The Monday morning dd was done on Friday

So why can't it be timed to come out on Saturday instead of Monday?

 

[Gillie]

Ring your bank and ask them!!

As I said, debit cards = automated - everything else = humans!

 

[AllUpHere]

So why can't it be timed to come out on Saturday instead of Monday?

You are making hard work of this. There is nobody there on a Saturday to decide whether or not to pay it.

 

[Newchodge]

You are making hard work of this. There is nobody there on a Saturday to decide whether or not to pay it.

But Gillie just said that the person making the decision had done that on Friday and then timed it to come out at 2am on Monday, because there is nobody there at 2am on Monday either.

 

[Gillie]

This is getting hard work!!

Staff oversee these and the level of staff is such that its done within 'normal working hours'.

Just because you are told that everything is instant aint quite so.

Most payments leaving your account are around and available for banking staff to see ahead of time - thats why when you ring them up they can say, they see a payment is due out the following day.

So, for the final time - the clerk is given the list first thing - they check it and decide which are paid when overdrawn already and which are not.

They make decisions ahead of time as they can see what is coming in and out.

They also on Monday morning, would check these accounts again to see if a last minute payment went through the system and if so pass it and if they see that someone removed the money from their account that was for the dd - they would then recall the payment as they have the ability to do so.

Only ever take it as set in stone, when come 5pm all your payments have left your account.

 

[Mr D]

You are making hard work of this. There is nobody there on a Saturday to decide whether or not to pay it.

Only because the bank choose not to do it that way.

These days there is no reason why a business should be only operating between particular hours.
Unless they choose to.

 

[Newchodge]

This is getting hard work!!

Staff oversee these and the level of staff is such that its done within 'normal working hours'.

Just because you are told that everything is instant aint quite so.

Most payments leaving your account are around and available for banking staff to see ahead of time - thats why when you ring them up they can say, they see a payment is due out the following day.

So, for the final time - the clerk is given the list first thing - they check it and decide which are paid when overdrawn already and which are not.

They make decisions ahead of time as they can see what is coming in and out.

They also on Monday morning, would check these accounts again to see if a last minute payment went through the system and if so pass it and if they see that someone removed the money from their account that was for the dd - they would then recall the payment as they have the ability to do so.

Only ever take it as set in stone, when come 5pm all your payments have left your account.

No wonder the banks are so incompetent!

 

[Mr D]

No wonder the banks are so incompetent!

Bad processes and little that will push them to change.
And still more efficient than some state bodies.

No simple solutions except using different processes.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Does the automation not work on a weekend? Does it need the day off to have Christmas Day with its family?

If I have a direct debit that goes out on the same date each month, and that date happens to be Good Friday, why does it have to wait until the following Tuesday until it can be paid?

My bank now has an automated cheque handling service, so if I pay a cheque into my account on Monday afternoon, the money is available in my account by the end of Tuesday. If I pay it in after 4pm on Friday it will be available .... by the end of Tuesday.

I don't understand the logic.

I know someone who is in charge of the computer systems of one of the biggest banks. One of his biggest headaches is dealing with backups and maintenance which gets done during periods of inactivity which I would guess to be weekends.

 

[Newchodge]

One of his biggest headaches is dealing with backups and maintenance which gets done during periods of inactivity which I would guess to be weekends.

That makes sense, but all weekend, every weekend?

 

[mattk]

No electronic banking transactions, direct debits (which uses BACS), Faster Payments and card transactions are processed or even checked by hand anymore, all are entirely automated.

The reason I was given as to why banks don't processes transactions over the weekend is that businesses don't want it. For example, would you want a multi-million pound BACS payment being deducted from an account on a Saturday or Sunday when all of your accounts team are at home?

Similarly, BACS payments can be returned unpaid and businesses do not want unpaid transactions being debited when they do not have staff available to monitor their accounts.

As for backups, I can assure you that banks are backing up transactions in realtime across their SAN and replicating data across multiple data centres continuously 24-hours a day, seven days a week. Banks operate in what's know as a Live-Live configuration, this means that have all of their core banking systems running in two geographically separate data centres simultaneously. Overnight backups will be taken of systems which don't need high availability and can therefore afford to "lose" up to a days' worth of transaction. Clearly this isn't acceptable on a system which supports core banking transactions.

 

[lesliedocherty]

This is getting hard work!!

Staff oversee these and the level of staff is such that its done within 'normal working hours'.

Just because you are told that everything is instant aint quite so.

Most payments leaving your account are around and available for banking staff to see ahead of time - thats why when you ring them up they can say, they see a payment is due out the following day.

So, for the final time - the clerk is given the list first thing - they check it and decide which are paid when overdrawn already and which are not.

They make decisions ahead of time as they can see what is coming in and out.

They also on Monday morning, would check these accounts again to see if a last minute payment went through the system and if so pass it and if they see that someone removed the money from their account that was for the dd - they would then recall the payment as they have the ability to do so.

Only ever take it as set in stone, when come 5pm all your payments have left your account.

Thanks for taking the time to make some sense of it, appreciated

 

[Ally Maxwell]

Kind of what Mattk says above.

BACS (so by default DD and SO) are processed by overnight batch. Weekends generally run different batch processes (such as audit/accounting) and not some of the standard weekday processes. There are a myriad of reasons for this. Trying to earn interest on your money is not one of them.

 

[DontAsk]

Faster payments work at the weekend with some institutions.

 

[Newchodge]

No electronic banking transactions, direct debits (which uses BACS), Faster Payments and card transactions are processed or even checked by hand anymore, all are entirely automated.

The reason I was given as to why banks don't processes transactions over the weekend is that businesses don't want it. For example, would you want a multi-million pound BACS payment being deducted from an account on a Saturday or Sunday when all of your accounts team are at home?

Similarly, BACS payments can be returned unpaid and businesses do not want unpaid transactions being debited when they do not have staff available to monitor their accounts.

As for backups, I can assure you that banks are backing up transactions in realtime across their SAN and replicating data across multiple data centres continuously 24-hours a day, seven days a week. Banks operate in what's know as a Live-Live configuration, this means that have all of their core banking systems running in two geographically separate data centres simultaneously. Overnight backups will be taken of systems which don't need high availability and can therefore afford to "lose" up to a days' worth of transaction. Clearly this isn't acceptable on a system which supports core banking transactions.

Well, that makes a great deal more sense than an army of Bob Cratchetts standing at their desks checking ledgers for direct debits! Thanks

 

[bazzais]

Its the calls from any error they are trying to manage - not the transactions themselves - there would be no point in managing the customer if it went through on saturday night when they give everyone a sunday off.

 

[bazzais]

Everything is digitised and wingged these day - no-one is going through transactions of any kind - you would need the exact amount of population to card holders just to follow everything. Even the likes of CHAPS and BACS is not monitored unless you go over the floor limit for fraud investigation

 

[bazzais]

Thats why there is a minimum transaction on cards in some stores - not for the cost but becuase they dont get authority for anything under the floor limit - thats how you can borrow money and get fined on a card that offers no credit - its good as a student though as you can always buy a pot noodle in a garage that doesnt abide by the floor limit as its all saved and done at the end of the night or week to save the burden on the network - mind you I have not been a student for years - but 4.99 was the max I used to spend on any card

I dont understand the delay in payments, they are just dosing around in all honesty in my opinion - i dont think they make any money off it. Just making a dinosaur walk - takes a big stick across the bum.

 

[Mr D]

Thats why there is a minimum transaction on cards in some stores - not for the cost but becuase they dont get authority for anything under the floor limit - thats how you can borrow money and get fined on a card that offers no credit - its good as a student though as you can always buy a pot noodle in a garage that doesnt abide by the floor limit as its all saved and done at the end of the night or week to save the burden on the network - mind you I have not been a student for years - but 4.99 was the max I used to spend on any card

I dont understand the delay in payments, they are just dosing around in all honesty in my opinion - i dont think they make any money off it. Just making a dinosaur walk - takes a big stick across the bum.

Perhaps that why some places would not allow card payments below the floor.

 

[bazzais]

That why some places let you use the card beow the floor limit - cos it doesnt effect them. putting someone into debt without permission is illegal and not coverd by protection

 

[obscure]

Well, that makes a great deal more sense than an army of Bob Cratchetts standing at their desks checking ledgers for direct debits! Thanks

But it's not as romantic (in a Victorian "working by candlelight in an unheated office while slowly dying of TB" sort of way).

 

[Usman Aslam]

LOL: I worked at night in a bank for a few weeks as a data entry clerk, in the days of earning a couple of pounds more than the staff employed by the bank. There must have been more than a hundred employees in the building at 2 am.
Most do not do data entry, it probably processes / manages the account.

Sometimes, in recent years, I have overdrawn in a bank account without realizing it, card accepted despite not having overdraft. Speaking only 2 or 3 pounds more.
I have always transferred money to cover, so I did not have overt charges. Probably automated for the few pounds to allow certain accounts, although with the banks the archaic processes is difficult to say.

 

[SteveHa]

To the OP, Shhhhhhhh. Talk like that will cost us our bank holidays.