What to do when a reviewer does not return a product

jacquieszym

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Oct 4, 2012
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A reviewer has had our audio product for 5 months and the review was completed a few weeks ago. He signed an agreement with us that the product was on loan and would be returned on demand to us. We have asked, but he has not returned it and does not reply to the return request.

It was a good review and after this he wanted us to agree to long term advertising on his site.
In exchange he 'd keep the product permanently. He says they only do this 'offer' if they love the product. We did not agree to this and it was not made clear this was obligatory. He has no terms in writing that you can check to get clarification. A banner for 2 years on his site would be poor exchange for a £3900 product. On major review sites you are committed to £300 for 3 months of adverts for a review and they have the product for no more than 3 months.

When we said we did not want to advertise, he said this is 'not on' and that we have tricked him into thinking we would have the adverts and therefore that he would be keeping it. He is pretty young guy (21) He approached us 2 years ago to ask to review our product. He had a reputable maker's £10000 product in his possession which we see has been advertised for about 3 years on his pages. And my husband saw this product on his visits to him. This gave him credibility in our eyes- when we saw that this maker had trusted him. His readers are young-we chose him because of that different energy and we wanted a variety of writers to review our product. My husband delivered the new product to him when it had been launched and met him a few further times. He saw him an energetic young guy, nice, interesting, keen to progress.

We have asked him either to return the product to us, pay for it or exchange commercially viable alternatives to the value of the product ( £3900). He said he had no items to exchange and cannot pay for it. He then sent us an abusive email saying we had tricked him and saying about rumours he had heard about us which nearly made him pull out of reviewing, but he 'gave us the benefit of the doubt' This was a horrible nasty extended rant and we did not sleep much last Sunday after reading it. The one thing we do have is a really good reputation with our customers. This change of tune was a total shock. From nice to nasty so quickly. We have sent 2 emails asking him politely to return the product - no response.

As we have the form he signed acknowledging the product it as our property ( and that he would return on demand to us) , could we ask the police in his area to come with us to his house to get our property back? Would they do that? Or do we just have to start this off with a solicitor's letter and then if that doesn't work the long road to the small claims. We are worried we are going to lose this product and we really cannot afford that to happen. This is such a waste of time and energy. Does anyone have any advice or has anyone been in a similar situation. What would you do?
 

Supercoach

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Send a letter Before Action - either you can draft it or get Dean (smallclaimsassistance) on this site to help you.
This is not a police matter and if you have a signed acknowledgement you are in an extremely strong position should you take legal action.
Chances are he will return the product before court action because any advice he takes will tell him the documentation is against him. Chances are also though that you will need to show you are serious before he will comply.
 
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Gecko001

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We have asked him either to return the product to us, pay for it or exchange commercially viable alternatives to the value of the product ( £3900)..

Does it say this in the contract you have with him? I would stick to what he signed. If it was only that he would return the product then that is what he should do. If he cannot then, as far as I can see, he should pay the you the resale value. If he had returned the product on time you could not have sold it as new anyway, so this resale value will be its second hand value or at least discounted "demonstration model" value.

Definitely not a police matter. Should be a straight-forward Small Claims Court matter.
 
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Wot @Supercoach said.

Review items are ALWAYS returned. I have reviewed hundreds of items back when I was a journalist for various trade mags and never did it happen that there was any kind of remuneration in exchange for a positive review and the only time I kept the review items was when they were so good, that I could not bear to part with them - so I had to pay the full RRP.

But be warned - ACT QUICKLY!
 
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Gecko001

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Wot @Supercoach said.

Review items are ALWAYS returned. I have reviewed hundreds of items back when I was a journalist for various trade mags and never did it happen that there was any kind of remuneration in exchange for a positive review and the only time I kept the review items was when they were so good, that I could not bear to part with them - so I had to pay the full RRP.

But be warned - ACT QUICKLY!

That is probably why you kept getting products to review. If you had tried to get a discount because you knew that they could not resell the review product at full price, then they would have probably struck you off their list of reviewers.

I doubt it if this young guy will continue to get products to review if he treats people who lend him products the way he has treated the OP.
 
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jacquieszym

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Oct 4, 2012
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Thank you for your replies. It's great to get some feedback. We have been so stuck ad shocked by this. I have sent a one sentence email last Thursday, asking for return to us or for us to notify us to collect. No response. Sent an email today giving him 7 days to return the product or for us to arrange courier pick up.
I am thinking to see a solicitor and get a basic notice letter, of intended court action sent return demand- we did want to treat it amicably- I can't believe I am saying that! Why? We are just totally green in business- me a teacher; husband engineer. Small claims court it seems is the answer,- maybe while we wait these 7 days I should get that solicitor's letter out to him. This is so disheartening. This is a hand built, registered design, patented, piece of audio- 3 years research in the attic workshop and no wages for my husband in that time. We arranged 3 reviews obviously to get the news out and have had one excellent one from a mainstream hifi mag.Awaiting 3rd. We are a young brand- the website only was finished 8 months ago and it seems we have been conned again. The piece of paper ( as advised by a solicitor a couple of years back, as yes this happened before, but with a 'friend' who 'borrowed ' a product when we were even more green) reads;In consideration of ( our company name) making the following product available to me ( name of brand and product) I confirm that I will look after it as well as if it were my own property that I will pay for any damage o it, that no intellectual property rights in this belong to me, and that I will return it to ( our company name) on deman. signed( his signature).... dated 01/07/2016.
Thank you for the input on reviewers too- and the correct procedure to follow.
 
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jacquieszym

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Oct 4, 2012
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Wot @Supercoach said.

Review items are ALWAYS returned. I have reviewed hundreds of items back when I was a journalist for various trade mags and never did it happen that there was any kind of remuneration in exchange for a positive review and the only time I kept the review items was when they were so good, that I could not bear to part with them - so I had to pay the full RRP.

But be warned - ACT QUICKLY!

That is probably why you kept getting products to review. If you had tried to get a discount because you knew that they could not resell the review product at full price, then they would have probably struck you off their list of reviewers.

I doubt it if this young guy will continue to get products to review if he treats people who lend him products the way he has treated the OP.

That's another thing Geck001. We published the review link on our FB page and website so our followers know he has the product. Should we proclaim loudly we have not had the product back? Give it some publicity, even in a chilled out fashion to let others know a little of what is happening?
 
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STDFR33

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That's another thing Geck001. We published the review link on our FB page and website so our followers know he has the product. Should we proclaim loudly we have not had the product back? Give it some publicity, even in a chilled out fashion to let others know a little of what is happening?

No.

Social media shaming is for people that want a free voucher for KFC.
 
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jacquieszym

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That is probably why you kept getting products to review. If you had tried to get a discount because you knew that they could not resell the review product at full price, then they would have probably struck you off their list of reviewers.

I doubt it if this young guy will continue to get products to review if he treats people who lend him products the way he has treated the OP.

But how will others know he is doing this if no one says anything? I wondered if he had done this before. Is that how he got the £10K product? If we had seen some review of the reviewer it would have been very helpful to us. Can we say nothing about this then? That's what I meant by a simple " Wake up send our product back we need it" on FB. Yes I know it is stupid Facebook, but that is where he and many people live.
 
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Gecko001

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But how will others know he is doing this if no one says anything? I wondered if he had done this before. Is that how he got the £10K product? If we had seen some review of the reviewer it would have been very helpful to us. Can we say nothing about this then? That's what I meant by a simple " Wake up send our product back we need it" on FB. Yes I know it is stupid Facebook, but that is where he and many people live.
I agree with the others. Leave naming and shaming to the amateurs and revenge to those who want to first dig two graves (sorry about the cliché). Behave business-like in your dealings with this person. Deal with your issue with this person and leave others to deal with the £10K products.
 
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jacquieszym

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Just had a response from him to our email of this morning:

"I will sort this out when I return from holiday but as I said I was flying last week and am no longer in the country. When I get back I will sort everything out with you"

I guess we could go round even so, with the paper showing it is our property and ask for it. My husband met them before when he took the product there.
 
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jacquieszym

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I agree with the others. Leave naming and shaming to the amateurs and revenge to those who want to first dig two graves (sorry about the cliché). Behave business-like in your dealings with this person. Deal with your issue with this person and leave others to deal with the £10K products.
Yes I agree too actually...just getting totally frustrated and we just don't know the ropes. We have always acted so 'properly' and business like and others have not...but we will keep our integrity and off i go to get a template for that letter of intention of legal action.
 
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Scott-Copywriter

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But how will others know he is doing this if no one says anything? I wondered if he had done this before. Is that how he got the £10K product? If we had seen some review of the reviewer it would have been very helpful to us. Can we say nothing about this then? That's what I meant by a simple " Wake up send our product back we need it" on FB. Yes I know it is stupid Facebook, but that is where he and many people live.

You can if you like, but it makes it far more likely that he will retaliate by dragging your brand through the mud on social media as well.
 
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Paul Norman

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Do not start a social media war with this guy. He will bury you.

Business is painful, especially in those early days.

The correct procedure for attempting to recover the item have been set out above, and should be followed to the letter. Be polite and firm at all times, and go to court only as a last resort.

I agree this guy has behaved poorly, but in business people do that, regretably. Let someone else have the war, you quietly press on with your business - which I presume involves selling reasonable numbers of this item.
 
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That is probably why you kept getting products to review. If you had tried to get a discount because you knew that they could not resell the review product at full price, then they would have probably struck you off their list of reviewers.

Proper reviews do not work like that. The PR agency or marketing dept. of the manufacturer will contact the magazine and offer that item for review. They have no control over who does the review. The mag then picks a technically competent reviewer and he or she puts the item through its paces, tests the performance, looks inside, etc. and writes it up, usually about 1,000 words.

At he end of the review period, the item is picked up by a courier at the manufacturer's expense. It is tested for function and sent to the next reviewer for the next magazine review. Even if it is a silly $5 item, it must be sent back.
________________________

BTW, as stated above, ignore everything this joker says, do not contact him, just send a letter before action and follow that up with immediate action. If he is not there to defend himself in court, tough!
 
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jacquieszym

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Do not start a social media war with this guy. He will bury you.

Business is painful, especially in those early days.

The correct procedure for attempting to recover the item have been set out above, and should be followed to the letter. Be polite and firm at all times, and go to court only as a last resort.

I agree this guy has behaved poorly, but in business people do that, regretably. Let someone else have the war, you quietly press on with your business - which I presume involves selling reasonable numbers of this item.

I agree. But no. We are not going to balance the books on the sales we have from this beautiful product and my husband will have to work on something else. We cannot afford to lose this one.
 
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14Steve14

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As you have sent him emails with deadlines, make sure you follow these up quickly. There is nothing worse than to say you will do something then not do it. If he is local, go and see him, give him one last chance to return your item, if he refuses, hand him the letter of intent, and carry out your threats and take him to court.
 
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I agree. But no. We are not going to balance the books on the sales we have from this beautiful product and my husband will have to work on something else. We cannot afford to lose this one.

That's what all poor people say!

£3k here, £3k there and pretty soon, if you think like that, you have blown the price of a new car.

Business is about chasing down EVERY detail, answering every call, replying to every email and minimising every cost. It does not matter how large the company or how wealthy you are personally, a fish rots from the head.

Use your head - I always know when I am talking to a poor person, as they throw money away and don't pay attention to details.
 
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As you have sent him emails with deadlines, make sure you follow these up quickly. There is nothing worse than to say you will do something then not do it. If he is local, go and see him, give him one last chance to return your item, if he refuses, hand him the letter of intent, and carry out your threats and take him to court.
 
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STDFR33

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Thank you for that. He has responded to the latest email from my husband saying he is 'on holiday' and will sort things out on his return. Doesn't give dates. I will wait until Monday as that was my email deadline. Then send the letter of intention to take action if he does nothing. Hopefully he will sort this out but it doesn't sound promising. Don't really want to do the 4 hour round trip just to have frustration and then anger. It takes over your life and it could get nasty. I don't know. We have a lot of new things that are not getting done because of this. If he would answer the door to us, he would probably answer our emails properly

Why have you created another account?
 
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That's what all poor people say!

£3k here, £3k there and pretty soon, if you think like that, you have blown the price of a new car.

Business is about chasing down EVERY detail, answering every call, replying to every email and minimising every cost. It does not matter how large the company or how wealthy you are personally, a fish rots from the head.

Use your head - I always know when I am talking to a poor person, as they throw money away and don't pay attention to details.
.
 
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jacquieszym

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That's what all poor people say!

£3k here, £3k there and pretty soon, if you think like that, you have blown the price of a new car.

Business is about chasing down EVERY detail, answering every call, replying to every email and minimising every cost. It does not matter how large the company or how wealthy you are personally, a fish rots from the head.

Use your head - I always know when I am talking to a poor person, as they throw money away and don't pay attention to details.

You are not talking to a poor person. I have another thriving business which I started from scratch and a meagre position 30 years ago. We follow the same practice as in that business. If you have a product that is in such a small niche and the market has moved on, sometimes you just have to make a different product. I did not mean move on to a new business, just a new product within that business. Also important not to let it take over the work you should be getting on with. No point in spending the time lamenting and worrying. We will set the legal things/small claims, in motion if after the weekend if there's no progress- I gave him 7 days. Good that they have upped the amount you can claim now to 10K.
And yes we answer every call. Our customer service also is brilliant. Just need to make money though- that is business! Otherwise it is just an expensive hobby.

The worst thing was actually his abusive email, dissing our reputation and referring to shadowy rumours, without naming them or from whence they came. That is disturbing. We have, as I said in the first post, an excellent reputation, because we work hard to do just what you've advised and more.- even if this particular business has not got off the ground financially.

The one thing we did have was that feeling of warmth that comes from doing a good job and his nasty emai attacked that. Not paying is one thing, but turning it round like that so that the business owner feels so bad is another thing and quite a con trick I think. What do you do about that I wonder- not enough to be libel but enough to make you feel very vulnerable if he passes that sort of information on. A friend who read it said it was tantamount to blackmail- the aim was to make us give in, have the advertising , give him the product?- I guess.
 
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paulears

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It sounds a little like you have not quite understood the differences between marketing and reviewing. Reviews should have no link whatsoever to do with sales. Reputable reviewers are engaged and normally paid a fee to be honest. The product is always returned at the end of the review period, normally all arranged by the supplier. Their fee is not conditional on being kind to the product. That way, when people in the know see the reviewers name, they can put a heavy weighting on their comments. People trust them. Giving these people product involves faith and conviction. Obviously, if they really hate it, you don't use the review, and of course, still pay them - but it's worth it to stop you selling lemons, which with the returns laws nowadays might even save you money. Paying somebody to review a product that is cheap enough to give away or discard is pointless. Replace reviewers by paid copywriters extolling the virtues of the worthless piece of tat - this is how the shopping channels work. Perfectly legit - but these are not reviews, they are sale techiques.

Your products appear to be substantial and expensive. If there was no written contract to the contrary, you tell them the product needs to be returned - do not accept a deal, and get it back. If they dither - then money claim on line.
 
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jacquieszym

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It sounds a little like you have not quite understood the differences between marketing and reviewing. Reviews should have no link whatsoever to do with sales. Reputable reviewers are engaged and normally paid a fee to be honest. The product is always returned at the end of the review period, normally all arranged by the supplier. Their fee is not conditional on being kind to the product. That way, when people in the know see the reviewers name, they can put a heavy weighting on their comments. People trust them. Giving these people product involves faith and conviction. Obviously, if they really hate it, you don't use the review, and of course, still pay them - but it's worth it to stop you selling lemons, which with the returns laws nowadays might even save you money. Paying somebody to review a product that is cheap enough to give away or discard is pointless. Replace reviewers by paid copywriters extolling the virtues of the worthless piece of tat - this is how the shopping channels work. Perfectly legit - but these are not reviews, they are sale techiques.

Your products appear to be substantial and expensive. If there was no written contract to the contrary, you tell them the product needs to be returned - do not accept a deal, and get it back. If they dither - then money claim on line.

I'm unsure what you mean: "Why does it sound like I don't know the difference between reviewing and marketing?" I think I do :) This reviewer certainly is having problems with his terms for review. He seemed to believe he would have the product at the end of it. But we do not agree. I have written to him, that I agree he should have fair renumeration for his work-which was a 5000 word review- but not the product! Then again he has had the product for nigh on 6 months, now he does not want to lose it- it's that good I guess :) He signed a paper when he was given the product, to say he would return the product to us on demand. One does have to trust a reviewer has integrity. If this guy does not relent, which I hope he will- he is only 21-we obviously made a mistake here. But I sure hope he does return it to save everyone some grief.
 
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ethical PR

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    ySorry I don't understand. You don't need to waste money with a solicitor. You already have a clear contract. You sent the reviewer the product to review and told them they return it after the review and it is being lent for this purpose. They have carried out the review.

    You never at any point agreed advertising on the reviewers site and they do not have a signed contract from you to this extent.

    Why haven't you sent a letter before action? Lots of templates available online including on the CAB website. It's clear the reviewer has not intention of letting you collect the item.

    There is nothing to stop you sending a letter today. Keep it factual. Say that he was lent the product for review on the basis that it was returned on demand and that he signed a contract with you to that affect. That despite your best efforts he has refused to communicate with you about the return of the product.

    That although he offered you advertising on his site in return for the item you declined his offer because you felt the value of the advertising didn't relate to the value of the product.

    Give him 14 days, if you hear nothing further then file a claim.

    My bet is he has sold it, damaged it or simply just doesn't want to give it back. Either way this is his issue not yours.
     
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    I'm unsure what you mean: "Why does it sound like I don't know the difference between reviewing and marketing?" I think I do :) This reviewer certainly is having problems with his terms for review. He seemed to believe he would have the product at the end of it. But we do not agree. I have written to him, that I agree he should have fair renumeration for his work-which was a 5000 word review- but not the product! Then again he has had the product for nigh on 6 months, now he does not want to lose it- it's that good I guess :) He signed a paper when he was given the product, to say he would return the product to us on demand. One does have to trust a reviewer has integrity. If this guy does not relent, which I hope he will- he is only 21-we obviously made a mistake here. But I sure hope he does return it to save everyone some grief.

    And you still do not understand how reviews work.
    • YOU do not pay for the review!
    • You also do not commission the review.
    • 5,000 words is far too long, nobody will read all that!
    • Reviews are not conducted by some random bloke with a blog, but are commissioned by accredited media, i.e. those that actually have stands at the various international trade shows for your industry.
    • Reviews should be done by someone with in-depth knowledge, both technical and industry-wide, of the market. They must have access to a laboratory for testing technical stuff and they must have the breadth of knowledge to bench-mark it against other similar products.
    Now stop playing games with this delinquent juvenile and follow the advice here (e.g. as outlined by @ethical PR ) and teach him a valuable lesson!
     
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    jacquieszym

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    Hi. I downloaded a template for the notice of legal action letter.I will send that on MOnday if we have not had resolution. My email said if he did not resolve this within 7 days - ie arrange collection/return or pay for product then it would have to become a legal issue. As he is only 21 and because we had such a wild letter from him, I do want to keep this chilled if possible. As well because he sent that 'blackmail' type email I give him until Monday ( as he is out of the country on holiday)He responded yesterday, he will sort it out when he gets back - he did not say how. Then I send the template from Lovetts. I am glad I am not going to have to pay a solicitor, but I would like to know what they would say about the weird email we received from him when we asked for return (and he was angry as he said he expected to keep it in lieu of advertising) regarding 'rumours' and 'bad things' about us and how we should view this- ignore, challenge, request info?
     
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    jacquieszym

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    Hi The Byre, I understand what you are saying! We have had 'proper' reviews from magazines also. He is not a random bloke with a blog. But I do agree we made a mistake. He is young and is proving to be delinquent when he does not get what he wants. He has an online review magazine and reviews regularly for about 4 years. He's had one or two top products- one worth £10K and the 8K from competitors. I don't want to be the one who teaches him a lesson if it costs us more than being conciliatory. I have already said in email I agree he should have some renumeration for his work. So too late to back out of that I guess. But at least that might get us the product back
     
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    jacquieszym

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    Yes but I already said I felt he should have some renumeration for his work. So I backtrack, when/if we get the product back? That's not very honest behaviour. I'd like to drive the 4 hour round trip to his house if it would have a chance of being a fruitful effort. We have the paper saying it is our property. Even if he is not there and it is his parents, would we get it? I feel it may be a depressingly low chance that no one will answer the door even if they are in. And I also feel very nervous about this guy after the nasty stuff in the email he spouted. He may still bury us on facebook if those are his true colours. Tread carefully.
     
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    ethical PR

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    OMG. Please just focus on what needs to be done.

    1. Letter before action (did you specifically say in your previous letter that if he didn't return the item within 7 days that you would take him to court?
    2. If so, come this Monday, don't chase, just file the papers (I bet you won't hear from him)
    3. Why are you letting other issues cloud your judgement. It doesn't matter whether he is young or if the threatens to bad mouth you. If he does you can also take him to court for this too if it defamatory.

    If you have promised to pay him for a review (big mistake) then pay him (I presume and hope you made payment conditional on the safe return of the reviewed item in the same condition it was given to him).

    You have already let this go on for six month - just get it sorted.
     
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    jacquieszym

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    If he does bad mouth that is important. As someone said earlier- he will bury you on facebook. Reputation is pretty important! According to the small claims courts, you need to show that you have attempted to mediate and given someone the chance to do what you ask; to do the right thing. Going to court because he bad mouths or spreads rumours will not help us; just cost us money, time and nerves. Best to try and sort things out first so he does not bad mouth us. Give him a chance to do so. The review was only published at the end of November. No one asked him for the product back until two weeks ago- not 6 months ago; Then he said he was going on holiday. And it is true he is on holiday.
     
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    ethical PR

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    Look Jacquie

    You are the one who mentioned he had the product for 5 months - sorry thought you said six.

    1. You have already tried to sort things out - he has refused to play ball - take him to court

    2. I know about the importance of reputation management - it's what I do for a living. Do you really think sorting things out with him without court proceeding, will stop him bad mouthing you on social media and forums?

    3. Much more likely the threat of court action will

    Anyway I am not sure why you came on these forums as you seem determined to do it your own way whatever advice you are given. You have used your approach are still no nearer to getting your stuff back - that should tell you something :)
     
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    paulears

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    What concerns me is that you thought the 21 year old understood - 21 yr olds rarely have any life experience, or pretty well any experience to do constructive reviews. You also perhaps need to consider the actual type of review. In depth - superficial - non-technical - very technical - experienced users - new users? Most critically the reader category. Getting this right is extremely important. I've been looking at on-line reviews today for a product costing five figures. Out of all the reviews only two sources offered the info and content I needed - the rest were (in terms of helping me) rubbish. What kind of item are you talking about?
     
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    jacquieszym

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    Look Jacquie

    You are the one who mentioned he had the product for 5 months - sorry thought you said six.

    1. You have already tried to sort things out - he has refused to play ball - take him to court

    2. I know about the importance of reputation management - it's what I do for a living. Do you really think sorting things out with him without court proceeding, will stop him bad mouthing you on social media and forums?

    3. Much more likely the threat of court action will

    Anyway I am not sure why you came on these forums as you seem determined to do it your own way whatever advice you are given. You have used your approach are still no nearer to getting your stuff back - that should tell you something :)

    Hi. My way is your way. This is the second week without permission. He had it 5 months and then the review was written. Then 2 weeks ago we asked for it back. We will be taking action on Monday if he does not comply. I came on here to work it out; to talk to someone about it. Hear your views. That's a forum isnt it? I have written to him last weekend- 7 days or we will start court action. Talking and listening to your opinions helps. Thank you.
    I have to give him the 7 days and it will be interesting to see what happens. Much prefer it if he comes to his senses. Court requires you to have made reasonable attempts to avoid court action. Give the person the chance to act properly. 7 days. Meanwhile, I have his parents phone number and I am going to call that tonight. I have written points to find out"

    a) Is he is there? ( If he is I talk to him)

    b) ( If he is not there) "When will he be back" ( from holiday?)

    c) If he is away: "We need to pick up our product /property- we have the paperwork he signed to say it is on loan and must be returned on demand".

    d) If they say no. "That is unfortunate as having the product back before Monday is the only way we can avoid our solicitor taking legal action against your son for theft".
     
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    paulears

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    Jan 7, 2015
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    That is unfortunate as having the product back before Monday is the only way we can avoid our solicitor taking legal action against your son for theft
    Whoa! So you are calling their son a thief? That's a very risky thing to do, you also infer that even though he is a thief, you won't take action if he returns it? Take legal action? Yes - but not for theft, because the conditions as described are flaky - and he clearly thought he could keep the goods. You also look a bit of a twit in Court. Imagine Judge Judy - "so you gave him the goods for 5 months and the review didn't happen. Then he did it. Now you are accusing him of being a thief? Baloney!" You're just angry he doesn't want to return the item, which after five months use, he's started to consider as his own.

    That's probably not true - but in court, if he says all this - would the judge really side with you? You are getting all hot under the collar now, when it should have been months ago! The court consider balance of probability and reasonableness - the views here should make you see that other people view this differently to you, as will the court.
     
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