What license do i need for the tv in the counter of our takeaway? URGENT

smalltowngirl

Free Member
Mar 21, 2018
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So our takeaway is quite small and we currently have a tv that lets customers watch tv shows. We recently got contacted saying we needed to pay for a PPL and PRS license so we got one and now we got a letter saying there's been a change which means we need to pay for a license for tv shows as well. As we only show tv shows, does this mean we can just pay for the tv shows one and not the PPL and PRS?
 
C

Caledonian TV

Who sent you this letter? The short answer is you will still need PPL/PRS as the TV shows inevitably include music.. MPLC licence??? I'll need to dig further into that! - I'm hearing about both a 'Motion Picture Licencing Corporation' and a 'Motion Picture Licencing Company' - And frankly, both stink to high heaven!

 
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smalltowngirl

Free Member
Mar 21, 2018
2
0
Who sent you this letter? The short answer is you will still need PPL/PRS as the TV shows inevitably include music.. MPLC licence??? I'll need to dig further into that! - I'm hearing about both a 'Motion Picture Licencing Corporation' and a 'Motion Picture Licencing Company' - And frankly, both stink to high heaven!


Yes the letter was sent by MPLC (Motion Picture Licensing Corporation). Got the letter in the post today saying there's been some changes
 
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C

Caledonian TV

...The 'corporation' version seems to be American,in the UK it's:
Motion Picture Licensing Company (International) Limited. Company number 02790268
They represent somewhere around 900 of the big studios and producers, and operate on the basis that you're unlikely to be running a TV that doesn't show some of their member's content at some time...

In my view the copyright laws in this country need changing to kick them - and the PRS/PPL into touch as far as broadcasts are concerned (because when you make and/or transmit a film, TV or radio show you pay royalities for it!) - But it's not how the law works; and these self-serving shysters get a way in.

I think the only way round it is to 'lock' the TV onto a rolling news channel! Or pay up :( ...sorry!
 
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paulears

Free Member
Jan 7, 2015
5,653
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Suffolk - UK
Er, you apply on line for a tv licence!http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/business-and-organisations
Then you need to consider the channels you will show - PRS's wording is this
For TV channels that feature music videos or music programming in the majority of their broadcast schedule.
So putting on a music channel clearly needs treating like playing the radio. It appears that incidental, or limited duration music - maybe the music 3 mins at the end of the Politics Show, doesn't.

If you play music, from TV or radio, you should pay. The TV licence covers the rest.
 
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C

Caledonian TV

I'm afraid Paul it seems this lot are staking their claim on much the same basis as PRS/PPL, only they represent a number of big production houses and are claiming in respect of their composite works - i.e. films etc. The TV licence doesn't cover it.

https://www.gov.uk/showing-films-in-public - They're mentioned here.

I'm still not 100% on what gives them rights as a blanket collection agency - and there is a lot about their website and set-up that quite frankly stinks! In fact, I'd go so far as to say that it is itself non-compliant with the law; I might even report them to CH!

The address shown on the site doesn't match that at CH for instance, and 4 Saffrons Rd, Eastbourne BN21 1DG appears to be a house! The actual registered address is
C/O Skadden Arps Slate Meagher & Flom UK LLP 40 Bank Street
Canary Wharf London E14 5DS.

Why the disparity?

Like PRS/PPL they would only have rights to collect on behalf of their members - and who exactly they are is not clear either... TBH - I'd like to find out more about them; and discover whether they've got any case law behind them!

As I say, the CDPA really needs modified to kick shysters like this into touch. PPL/PRS for all their fake piety have done a great deal to damage commercial radio in this country (and therefore limit the opportunity for musicians to promote themselves) and I'm afraid this bunch of greedy barstewards steping in and trying to take a skin off the top of the takeaway telly isn't working in my interests or those of anyone I know!
 
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Caledonian TV

A little more information...

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/...data/.../section-72-broadcasts.pdf

https://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk...ense-to-play-Copyright-law-explained-for-pubs

...Obviously anywhere that has a TV 'playing' is in much the same position as a pub. As far as I can make out, the 'Canary Warf' lot are an American law firm. I can't find a list of who MPLC represent!

To me, this is just 100% sharp practice! Why aren't our legislators protecting us from sharks like this?
 
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paulears

Free Member
Jan 7, 2015
5,653
1,661
Suffolk - UK
I really can't do this again, but in response to caledonian's post.

PRS and PPL are member organisations. ANYONE who produces IP content - as in the composers, studios, musicians etc can join and while the system is nowhere near perfect, it offers the ONLY chance most of us have of getting paid. Most countries operate similar systems and it does mean that if somebody in America uses a piece of English music created by a member, and that user is an individual or company who operate legally and morally, then a payment may be triggered.

It costs nothing to join as a member, membership fees are only deducted once you have earnings. Many members never get anything, but the system exists so that if a piece of their music gets picked up and used in a radio advert, or youtube video - money is earned. It's considerably more than Spotify and iTunes pay, but does of course miss loads of use by smaller video companies and small venues, as they distribute the income by a system that favours the big names, and big broadcasters like the BBC and independent radio.

I'm VERY happy to leave it in the hands of PRS, MCPS and PPL, because without them, I have no way of generating any money for my work. It's quite common for PRS to require 1% of the box office take at theatres - and with thousands of seats at lots of dosh - that is a sizeable amount of money. The theatres would prefer not to pay, but it's simply a running cost.

Frankly - I understand people hate the idea of paying for music - that's a common opinion, but these people are not music makers, they are music consumers. On this forum we spend lots of time responding to people who have had logos pinched, business names copied, product designs stolen - and everyone says this is terrible and needs stamping out - trace them to the IP court iOS the common cry. Music though generates the total opposite response. I don't know why!

If anyone isn't a member of PRS, and finds out their IP content has been used, PRS (and PPL) have a nice simple system where you stick in a claim, and then you sign up and get the money. They do have funds collected they are unable to distribute, and always happy to pay it out.
 
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C

Caledonian TV

Paul... I've worked in television for nearly 40 years; and actually used to teach copyright law as one of my specialisms. So I'm VERY well aware of what PRS/PPL are... And how they work.

And, as far as collecting for music that the needle time has already been paid for - i.e. little shops and garages playing a radio broadcast in the background - as far as I'm concerned they're nothing but a bunch of low life profiteering shysters! - There was even a case a few years ago where one of their petty thugs tried to slap a charge on some wee wumman in a paper shop in the @rse end of Fife who was singing to herself! - Let's not pretend this is in the interests of musicians!

As I say - they've done HUGE damage to commercial radio (and radio generally) as many a workplace has now fallen silent! Or are using 'prs free' sources - And that's taking the bread-and-butter out the mouths of advertisers, programme makers and the musicians who would otherwise be promoted, alike.

For example http://www.lfmradio.co.uk/page34.html

Nobody's arguing against musicians getting paid! But profiteering?

The thread is abut a new bunch of profiteers on the street... Exploiting a loophole that's appeared in the law - a new bunch of shysters who, quite clearly, DON'T represent the entireTV industry - and in fact, are so 'holier than though' they're not even complying with the law of the land themselves!
 
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