What is and isn't acceptable to use in a new business name?

[scm5436]

ok, so we're looking for a new name for our website as the opinion here is that the current name potentially infringes someone's copyright.

So, what is acceptable? In our case the we used an obscure phrase from a franchise to promote that franchises licenced products, but that is apparently deemed unacceptable.

But trying to think of a name that has no connection to anything that has previously occurred is just stupidly difficult.

One suggestion that we liked, for our space themed products, was "Dark Star". It's kind of memorable, space related and the domain we're looking at is available.

But a quick google search reveals that there is a 1974 film called "Dark Star" (no, me either). So does that mean that, because there was once a film called Dark Star that the particular combination of words is now off limits for all time?

Or can we use it if we're using it in a way that is completely unrelated to the film, selling a completely unrelated range of products is that ok? For example if we are selling licenced space themed mugs, from say the BattleStar Galactica franchise, could we call the website "Dark Star Mugs"? Clearly there is no relation between the film and the product we sell, and therefore no attempt to associate ourselves with the film.

 

[fisicx]

But a quick google search reveals that there is a 1974 film called "Dark Star"

Damn right! One of the greatest SciFi films ever, along with 2001, Silent Running and Dark City.

If you are selling movie/TV stuff keep it really simple and call it something like 'scm5436' as this gives you room to flog whatever you want and the business develops.

 

[scm5436]

Damn right! One of the greatest SciFi films ever, along with 2001, Silent Running and Dark City.

ok, great. but does anyone actually have an answer to my question?

 

[fisicx]

I gave you an answer.

 

[scm5436]

I gave you an answer.

But not to the question I asked.

 

[fisicx]

Don’t use anything specific. Keep it very generic so you can sell what ever you want.

So Dark Star will probably be ok.

 

[Darren_Ssc]

The name 'Dark Star' isn't so great that it's worth the potential bother.

Searching for 'BattleStar Galactica Mug' throws up a random bunch of website names - none of which are movie related, barring 'fromthemovies' which is generic enough to be considered no-risk.

 

[scm5436]

ok, thanks for your advice on keeping the name generic (although Dark Star is pretty generic in terms of products) but my point is that whatever generic sound name we come up with, it's been used somewhere else before - unless we start making up new words or randomly throwing together pairs of words until we find one that hasn't been used before.

So is there a legal issue with using, as an example, "Dark Star" in our store name if that name happens to have been used before.

Or are we allowed to use it if it's in a non-related area?

Also, in this case, Dark Star is an actual (scientific) thing. Like a gas giant, or supernova, or blackhole. So if someone names a movie after a "thing" that existed before the movie, can the movie "hijack" the word? (Note: Supernova and Blackhole also happen to be films, so does that rule out Blackhole Plumbing? SuperNova Demolitions?)

 

[Graham Tyers]

Unfortunately there is no 'allowed' or 'not allowed'.

No matter how tenuous, anyone can threaten you with action if they think you have abused their IP for your own benefit.

I would recommend avoiding the risk of action altogether and make up a unique name.

 

[scm5436]

No matter how tenuous, anyone can threaten you with action if they think you have abused their IP for your own benefit.

ok, but what does that mean "abused their IP"??? I mean there must be some "general" rules about what is allowed and not allowed. Sure anyone can sue anyone for anything, but at the end of the day there has to be a law somewhere that says something, then it's just a matter of interpretation. So what does the law say?

I don't need a cast-iron solid "sue proof" guarantee, I just need a "this is what's generally ok, this is what's not generally ok, so proceed at your own risk".

 

[Graham Tyers]

If you want to use a particular name because you think that doing so will give you a leg-up, then whoever believes they own the IP in that name has a claim over the value of your leg-up advantage.

Whether they come after you for it depends on the value the owner assigns to it, whether or not they can demonstrate a detriment, and whether or not the costs of retrieving it will be worthwhile.

The rule is, other people's IP belongs to them, not you.

Get creative, come up with something unique that suggests the right theme, but is as safe as you are comfortable being.

 

[obscure]

ok, but what does that mean "abused their IP"??? I mean there must be some "general" rules about what is allowed and not allowed.

You can't copy, edit, distribute, perform, broadcast, making an adaptation of the work or lend/rent copyright material without permission of the copyright holder.
https://www.gov.uk/copyright

I don't need a cast-iron solid "sue proof" guarantee, I just need a "this is what's generally ok, this is what's not generally ok, so proceed at your own risk".

It is generally OK to use something original you created yourself. It is generally not OK to use something that someone else created.

There is (or was) a comic shop in London called Forbidden Planet... which is also the name of a classic Sci Fi movie. Problem is no one (other than the shop) can tell you if they licensed the name or just went ahead and used it, or if they have ever been threatened with legal action.

 

[scm5436]

Get creative, come up with something unique that suggests the right theme, but is as safe as you are comfortable being.

How am I supposed to know how comfortable to be if no-one will answer my question about what the law actually says I'm allowed or not allowed to do??

Unfortunately there is no 'allowed' or 'not allowed'.

Well there must be one or the other, otherwise what happens when a case comes to court? The judge just says, "well this is embarrassing, apparently the law doesn't say what you're allowed or not allowed to do, so I guess we'll just flip a coin or something to decide who wins"...?​

Looking at this particular example in Wikipedia, it seems there is more than just a film that uses this name:

Astronomy
Dark star (Newtonian mechanics), a star that has a gravitational pull strong enough to trap light under Newtonian gravity
Dark star (dark matter), a star heated by annihilation of dark matter particles within it
Dark-energy star, an object composed of dark energy that outwardly resembles a black hole
Film
The Dark Star (1919 film), a lost 1919 silent film
The Dark Star (1955 film), a 1955 West German drama film
Dark Star (film), a 1974 science fiction comedy film directed by John Carpenter
Dark Star, a 1978 film distributed by David Grant
Dark Star: H. R. Giger's World, a 2014 Swiss documentary
Comics
Darkstar (Marvel Comics), a Marvel Comics superhero
Darkstars, a DC Comics superhero team
Darkstar Comics, a fictional comic book company in the TV series Spaced
Dark Star, an issue of the comics series The Transformers
Other
Dark Star, a 1929 novel by Lorna Moon
Dark Star, a novelization of the 1974 film, by Alan Dean Foster
Dark Star: The Roy Orbison Story, a 1990 book by Ellis Amburn
Dark Star, a 1991 Night Soldiers novel by Alan Furst
Darkstar, a villain in the animation series Ben 10 (2005)
Darkstar, a 2011 novella by Christopher R. Howard
Performers
Dark Star (band), an English psychedelic rock band, 1998–2001
Darkstar (band), an English electronic duo, formed 2007
Dark Star Orchestra, a Grateful Dead tribute band
Darkstar, a progressive metal band co-founded by Dan Rock of Psychotic Waltz
Albums
Dark Star (soundtrack), by John Carpenter, 1980
Dark Star, by Deine Lakaien, 1991
Dark Star, by The Supernaturals, 1993
Dark Star: The Music of the Grateful Dead, by the David Murray Octet, 1996
The Dark Star, by Volsoc, 2004
Dark Star (album), by the Grateful Dead and featuring their song "Dark Star", 2012
Dark Star, by Jaymes Young, 2013
Songs
"Dark Star" (song), by the Grateful Dead
"Dark Star", by Beck from The Information
"Dark Star", by Cinema Bizarre from ToyZ
"Dark Star", by Crosby, Stills & Nash from CSN
"Dark Star", by Delerium from Faces, Forms & Illusions
"Dark Star", by Hypnogaja from Truth Decay
"Dark Star", by I Am Kloot from Natural History
"Dark Star", by Jackal & Hyde
"Dark Star", by Mike Oldfield from Tubular Bells II
"Dark Star", by Poliça from Give You the Ghost
"Dark Star", by Tarja Turunen from What Lies Beneath
"Dark Star", by Jaymes Young from his album of the same name
Video games
DarkStar One, a 2006 video game
Darkstar: The Interactive Movie, a 2010 video game
Dark Star (No More Heroes), a character in the video game No More Heroes
Dark Star, a malevolent artifact in the video game Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
Dark Star, a 3D space shoot 'em up for the ZX Spectrum written by Simon Brattel for Design Design Software
Darkstar, special weapon in a Sci-Fi MMOFPS PlanetSide 2
Technology
Lockheed Martin RQ-3 DarkStar, an unmanned aerial vehicle
Project Darkstar, a framework for creating massively multiplayer online games
Tesla Roadster (2008), codenamed DarkStar, an electric sports car
Other uses
Dark Star Brewery, West Sussex, England
Dark Star (cave), a cave system in Uzbekistan
Dark Star (horse), an American Thoroughbred racehorse

So, while some of those people may just be winging it and hoping for the best, I'm sure many of the others will have consulted lawyers who have apparently come back and said the usage would be ok in their particular circumstances/usage.

So clearly, given that list of things using the phrase darkstar, if a film or book or song or comic or character or video game or company uses a particular name then that doesn't then prevent the name from ever being used again in another film or book or song or comic or character or video game or company.

So therefore the law must allow usage in some circumstances and not in others. So what are those circumstances? what is allowed and what is not allowed?

Is no-one here able to describe the law in laymans terms?

 

[Darren_Ssc]

You can be challenged on any word or phrase you choose to use.

The chances of success regarding such a challenge depends on where those words have been used already.

A word you made up and can prove you made it up - almost zero

Your 'Dark Star' example - much higher than zero

If you want some kind of guarantee consult a lawyer but I doubt he/she will give you the kind of guarantee you're looking for?

 

[scm5436]

If you want some kind of guarantee consult a lawyer but I doubt he/she will give you the kind of guarantee you're looking for?

I'm not looking for a guarantee. I just want to know what the law says!

 

[Darren_Ssc]

I'm not looking for a guarantee. I just want to know what the law says!

https://www.gov.uk/topic/intellectual-property/copyright

Mentioned previously here by Obscure

 

[paulears]

I'm sorry but you're just asking an impossible question. The Law does not give examples that X is right, or Z is OK. It sets the framework, formulates the rules and the legal profession determine strategies for winning cases based on the case law.

Copyright is one of the more complicated one. Only a judge can answer your question, and of course other judges can then decide if the first judge was right on his opinion, not fact, in the dodgy cases. Eventually, you reach the most senior judge who gives their opinion, and as the senior judge - you go no further than their opinion of how the law wording balances against the individual case. That's how our legal system works. Learned opinion being better than a forum members opinion.

You ARE looking for a guarantee - you want, but cannot have, an absolute answer - that is what the courts do.

Of course you can find examples of people who have happily winged it ..... so far.

My A Level and ancient understanding of the law is that if you choose a name because you hope the public make the link with your intended subject, then you deliberately chose something you should have known belonged to someone else. You cannot say that as there are stars in the sky, then "star" is ok, and because people make a long journey to your shop, they've made a trek. So your Star Trek name is perfectly OK, and the stock with the name, the characters and other stuff is coincidence. Do you think a judge would agree. The law contains no mention of these words. It just talks about rights holders and ownership. People have even mentioned some of the legal wording. That's as good as it gets.

I would view it like this. if you use a name you know sets people's minds so they know what your business does, then that name needs to be conflict free.

Can't you use a safe title the Sci-Fi shop, but if you want to use "event horizon" then even though that's a scientific term, you could find it's a copyright claim in waiting - as are other terms that make the lightbulbs in the head light up!

 

[scm5436]

https://www.gov.uk/topic/intellectual-property/copyright

Mentioned previously hereby Obscure

Finally. Thank you. And thanks to obscure as well, I completely missed that post - it appeared while I was writing mine and I just didn't see it.

 

[The Byre]

I have a business and that business has a name. The name is not unique. There is a furniture shop, a theatre, a recording studio, a bar and an IT company by that name (and possibly loads of others as well).

BUT

The name is unique to my type of business. If someone opened a business in the same field and used the same name, I would be forced to hit them with litigation and do so as hard and as quickly as possible.

The list you have given for Dark Star is, therefore, also a list of about 50 things that you cannot do with that name, such as a comic book, a novel, a film or a video game.

You could, however, publish a song by that title, as the song title has been used some 12 times and whoever was first failed to litigate to protect their song title.

Chances are, you are OK with that title, as it has been used for so many odd things and so often. But you would find out if it is OK soon enough if you do use it - depending on how deep the pockets are of whoever wants to protect the name.