What is an 'Ethical Business'?
- Thread starter windowontheworld
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The shop local to me describe themselves primarily as ethical and they explain this as knowing about their suppliers and making sure they are ethically sourced.
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It's a general rule that when someone says "to be honest" or "honestly", what follows is a whopping porkie. When I hear a company boasting about being "ethical", my natural reaction is, "so what are they doing that's unethical?". If a company is genuine, it shouldn't need to use phrases like this in its marketing blurb.
Plus - I really don't like interest groups kidnapping phrases like this. What's the opposite of an ethical company? An unethical company? Because, in their eyes, that's what we are.
Plus - I really don't like interest groups kidnapping phrases like this. What's the opposite of an ethical company? An unethical company? Because, in their eyes, that's what we are.
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- Original Poster
- #4
It's a general rule that when someone says "to be honest" or "honestly", what follows is a whopping porkie. When I hear a company boasting about being "ethical", my natural reaction is, "so what are they doing that's unethical?". If a company is genuine, it shouldn't need to use phrases like this in its marketing blurb.
Plus - I really don't like interest groups kidnapping phrases like this. What's the opposite of an ethical company? An unethical company? Because, in their eyes, that's what we are.
I see where you're coming from, and to some extent I agree with you. However, we're the most jaded people in the world; with the right emphasis, ie not trumpeted from the rooftops, could that strapline add value?
Also, I'm interested in what form anyone thinks 'Corporate Social Responsibility' might take.
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There are plenty of other terms that would work, such as "environmentally responsible". That's a claim I would listen to, but not "ethical".
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suggie
Whats in a word ?there are many people who class themselves as EXPERTS but this word is as misused as the word GENIUS or UNIQUE. They are simply setting themselves up for a fall,the first time they get it wrong with the wrong advice ,or the wrong diagnosis for example their credibility is shot, there are only a handful of true experts in the world ,like the savant who has the capacity to store and photographically memorise millions of images and words Rain Man. If you have looked I have used the word ETHICAL as an acronym to try to get our message over. There are parasites out there who are feeding off peoples misery and I do not see the problem with pointing that out .Every business or individual has to have a u.s.p and first and foremost people have to buy into you as a person,regardless of what you are trying to offer . In our particular field as in most walks of life distance selling and communication,is both safe and anonymous and it is this strength that is ultimately its achilles heel. Many Companies are making millions from distance selling via the web and telephone, but nothing beats seeing the whites of someones eyes. We are not in the business of wanting to see people get sick,but rather get to them with the right medication,before it becomes terminal.Unfortunately by being given the wrong stuff not only is it extremely costly in financial terms but also the impact on personal health and relationships goes off the richter scale.The proof of the pudding is in the eating and we shall see how we go,but for how ever long we are around as a business I know that we will be looking to raise the bar in all areas. Regards Suggie
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I guess it depends on your ethics LOL lots of people now love to say that they are ethical businesses or green businesses ,at the eco build show that I recently exhibited at there was a good bit of green washing going on.
we sell environmentally responsible street furniture memorial benches ext and can back up our claims but as a small business its easy too keep a close watch on such things.
we sell environmentally responsible street furniture memorial benches ext and can back up our claims but as a small business its easy too keep a close watch on such things.
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T
tcg
Ethics. "Conforming to accepted standards of social or professional behaviour". http://www.wordreference.com/definition/ethical
There are many different definitions but this one raises the right questions.
What is acceptable? Who says so?
What about cultural differences? In societies where people are struggling to provide food for their families is it unethical for them to buy intensively farmed eggs?
Businesses need to be sustainable and so do communities. That means taking into consideration things like culture, society, environment and economics.
To follow unsound business practices because you want to be 100% ethical is not sustainable. Just as carrying on using up the worlds scare resources at the rate we are is not sustainable. How are we going to produce in the future? What legacy are we leaving for our children?
I guess if you truly take into account the four pillars of sustainability, and your business is based upon sound principles that reflect this, then you are being ethical.
Accountability and consciousness of all stakeholders is key.
There are many different definitions but this one raises the right questions.
What is acceptable? Who says so?
What about cultural differences? In societies where people are struggling to provide food for their families is it unethical for them to buy intensively farmed eggs?
Businesses need to be sustainable and so do communities. That means taking into consideration things like culture, society, environment and economics.
To follow unsound business practices because you want to be 100% ethical is not sustainable. Just as carrying on using up the worlds scare resources at the rate we are is not sustainable. How are we going to produce in the future? What legacy are we leaving for our children?
I guess if you truly take into account the four pillars of sustainability, and your business is based upon sound principles that reflect this, then you are being ethical.
Accountability and consciousness of all stakeholders is key.
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D
Dawg
Well, to chuck in my tuppence worth: from Wiki:
"A central aspect of ethics is "the good life", the life worth living or that is simply satisfying, which is held by many philosophers to be more important than moral conduct."*
(Emphasis mine).
This seems to imply that 'ethical' companies are after the good life; more concerned with satisfaction than moral considerations about (e.g.) 'giving' and 'responsibility'. This search for self satisfaction does of course fit in well with the view that by acting in your own interests you are maximising the wealth, and thereby happiness, of society. Thus an 'ethical' company is one acting purely in the interests of it's own shareholders, by which it maximises it's contribution to society.
Seems good to me.
This might not please those who wish to believe they hold the high ground, either ethically or morally. However they might still retain a vestigial belief in their stance which will give them pleasure and thus satisfaction, and in this roundabout way make them ethical. Good stuff.
*Singer, P. (1993) Practical Ethics, 2nd edition (p.10), Cambridge: Cambridge University Press
"A central aspect of ethics is "the good life", the life worth living or that is simply satisfying, which is held by many philosophers to be more important than moral conduct."*
(Emphasis mine).
This seems to imply that 'ethical' companies are after the good life; more concerned with satisfaction than moral considerations about (e.g.) 'giving' and 'responsibility'. This search for self satisfaction does of course fit in well with the view that by acting in your own interests you are maximising the wealth, and thereby happiness, of society. Thus an 'ethical' company is one acting purely in the interests of it's own shareholders, by which it maximises it's contribution to society.
Seems good to me.
This might not please those who wish to believe they hold the high ground, either ethically or morally. However they might still retain a vestigial belief in their stance which will give them pleasure and thus satisfaction, and in this roundabout way make them ethical. Good stuff.
*Singer, P. (1993) Practical Ethics, 2nd edition (p.10), Cambridge: Cambridge University Press
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tcg
Ethics and business don't realistically work together, as your in business to make money and giving away profits is ethically unrational to shareholders.
There is a fine line between these aspects and only the major shareholder can decide what is most ethical.
How hot is Maria
Ethics is not just about money. It is a fallacy that ethical companies are not profitable companies. In fact there is a growing understanding that, in times of scarcity, the only way to be profitable is to be sustainable.
I want to make a profit as much as anyone, but I also want to ensure that the impact of my work does not negatively effect the world.
This is one of those topics that can be argued from all sides. There is no consensus as to what it means to be ethical.
As with everything it is fine to isolate a concept so as to focus on it and understand it, but it must then be looked at in relation to its eco-system.
For a company to survive it has to be sustainable. We have been through an age where there has been an imbalance in the eco-system. We have systematically used up our natural resources and created artificial market conditions. We have exploited cultures and communities and looked towards personal gain over everything else.
We have seen that this has not been sustainable over the long term.
For me, to be ethical is to be sustainable. To be sustainable is to look at the relationship between economics, society, culture and environment.
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Techy
Alasdair,
I totally agree with you, but especially in the current climate the world doesn't actually operate on this level.
Take local government, they define work and award it to a national company not from the area. The rewards to the local people are zilch in terms of +minimum wage payments, training, development or money into the local economy.
I am a morally ethical personal but business is adminsitered in such a way that profits are maximised, irrespective of society or culture and as you know both are intertwined.
Sustainability is realistically just a fee earner for all the environmental bodies / companies that have popped up and (in my view) they are only really interested in making a few bob whilst appearing intentional.
The biggest issue I see with your thoughts is money...
The public sector of this country operates on corruption and as long as this is the case, nothing can be ethical.
You never answered my real question, on Maria!!!
I totally agree with you, but especially in the current climate the world doesn't actually operate on this level.
Take local government, they define work and award it to a national company not from the area. The rewards to the local people are zilch in terms of +minimum wage payments, training, development or money into the local economy.
I am a morally ethical personal but business is adminsitered in such a way that profits are maximised, irrespective of society or culture and as you know both are intertwined.
Sustainability is realistically just a fee earner for all the environmental bodies / companies that have popped up and (in my view) they are only really interested in making a few bob whilst appearing intentional.
The biggest issue I see with your thoughts is money...
The public sector of this country operates on corruption and as long as this is the case, nothing can be ethical.
You never answered my real question, on Maria!!!
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tcg
Interesting. I have just been talking about "constrained views" on Twitter with someone on UKBF. In my view this is a great example.
We are increasingly cynical. Yes there have been instances where "green washing" has coloured our view of ethical claims. There is a movement to try and squeeze every ounce of marketing potential out of best practices claims.
But ethical practices are good for business. It is a shift in the way we approach business. Yes there are people who abuse the message. Yes we are not naive enough to believe many of the claims. But just because people are abusing the messaging, just because there are some dishonest businesses out there, does not mean the pursuit of ethical business practices is wrong, or that it does not have any real benefits.
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Of course I agree that 'the pursuit of ethical business practices' is a good thing, who wouldn't, but I would disagree that "its a shift in the way we approach business". That's the tag businesses promoting themselves under the ethical slogan say but its not new and again it implies old businesses are somehow not ethical. (As an aside - I doubt there is anyone where who would say 'I am unethical and ethics don't matter at work').
Taking issue with the 'new approach' philosophy there were always the Lever's and Cadbury's of the world who took 'ethical' trade to a level unheard of by today's standards. To claim its a 'new way of doing business' is another misuse of the word to me and again just takes it towards marketing speak. Having ethics at work is not a fundamental shift but tagging 'ethical' to businesses is just a current fashion and is ceasing to have much in the way of meaning. To my cynical mind anyway - there are a lot of consumers who will respond well to it as a tag.
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tcg
Indeed, we will always find examples of companies that are ethical and successful, just as we will always find examples of businesses who are unethical but use the ethical tab. To argue that we are not having to shift the way we do business because there have always been one or two examples of ethical businesses is flawed logic.
Our history has been characterised by shifts in paradigms. The way we live our lives today is vastly different from the way we were living it 200, 100, 50 and even 10 years ago. With each "advance" and as we move between paradigms there is always conflict between the old, established paradigm, and the new one. The world, it's language, its cultures and societies are all geared towards the prevalent paradigm. It takes time for harmony to be restored, if ever at all. It is not uncommon for certain views and beliefs within particular societies to remain, even after several paradigm shifts
We are currently using up our natural resources at an unsustainable rate. Our industry and business practices are creating irreversible damage on the earth. Our lust for cheap credit and consuming beyond our means has contributed to leaving our financial institutions in a mess. Our views of other cultures and societies are antiquated and ill informed.
In order for businesses to survive into the future we have to look at these issues. We have to ensure we are following sustainable business practices. We need to take a look at the relationship between the way we consume, the way we produce and the way in which we use our resources.
The definition of ethical is changing. We are in the middle of this shift. It is not possible for us to carry on the way we have been doing. It is just not working anymore. Take a look at the redundancies, take a look at the increase in people becoming bankrupt. What about all the companies going into administration?
Shifting the way we do business might well equate to marketing speak to you, but to me it is a matter of survival. It is the way in which we can rebuild the economy and address the imbalances we have created.
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Its heading off-topic, but again, I would disagree there
I don't think the system is dead and an alternative one will arise in its place. We took the ride up and we are now taking the ride down, its the way of the world and has been for a long long time. This one is sharp, but its not the end and its not going to lead to a great long term leap in both business and consumer behaviour. As an alalogy, people drive down the motorway and see a car upside down and smashed up on the hard shoulder. For the next 20 miles they drive more carefully, then a bit faster, then a bit faster, and the following day they're back to how they were before. We are all short-term creatures and while at the time it seems the end of the world, we forget, move one and don't really change behaviours. Ethical business will maintain the position it always has - everyone thinks its important, some will be more demonstrative than others, and some consumers will treat it as more important than others. And hopefully another band-wagon will come along and the 'ethical' slogans will fade away.
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tcg
Doesn't that worry you? I find that incredible. We understand what has gone wrong and why we are in this mess and your solution is just to carry on and not change the way we behave? Do you really believe that?
Do you not see any link at all between your attitude and the mess we find ourselves in?
I wish you luck. You are going to need it.
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Does it worry me? Its what humans as a group do - it doesn't take a genius to work out that digging stuff up, burning it to make other stuff out of yet more stuff we've dug up, to then chuck it away and bury it again is a tad daft, but its what we do and will do for centuries to come yet. We have a huge capacity for just carrying on regardless, or only learning lessons in the very very short term. And once the economy picks up off we will trot again exactly as we were before. In 5 or 10 years it will be just a footnote in economic history.
People will choose a 'green' or a branded 'ethical' product if its cheaper or better than the alternative but only when its the best or cheapest option, but for the majority it will not be because they care about the wider impact of it. There is a green market out there, as there is an ethical market out there, and good luck to the businesses looking to exploit it and make money from it. There are always some people willing to part with cash for what they think is a good thing, whether it is or not, or else homeopathists wouldn't exist and idiots wouldn't spend money putting candles in their ears to try and clear wax.
And you misread my post, nowhere did I talk about solely about 'my' attitude, I was predominantly talking about how I see the attitude and behviours of society as a whole. I suspect the car crash analogy would apply to pretty much every driver and if a mangled wreck doesn't get us to change our behaviour permanently, what makes you think something like an economic downturn will?
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tcg
Sure. The only way to meaningfully change the way we consume is to change the way we produce. We need to mainstream sustainability. You are absolutely right when you say there needs to be more value to an ethical product other than the fact that it is ethical.
Ethical is not the selling point. Value is the selling point. A bad ethical product or service is still a bad product, despite its ethical badge.
The point here is not to labour the ethical label. It would be crazy to expect someone to adhere to 100% ethical practices at the expense of their organisation. But we need to understand the larger picture. Something is not working. We are running out of resources, and taking a closer look at how we are consuming or producing is important for our future generations.
Take your car analogy. Accidents are not just about speed. Sure the natural reaction is to alter the only variable you can at the time, and that is your speed. But there are other variables at play. Driving on worn or flat tires is just as dangerous as speeding. Checking your brakes is another action you can take. If your car is older testing the shock absorbers is another step.
Car manufacturers are changing the way they make cars so that accidents happen less frequently and use less fuel. Many people are against light weighting a car for example as they feel it will be less safe, yet through strengthening various touch points and frames in a car, and using lighter alloys means that the cars are actually stronger and safer in an impact.
We can also take a completely different view and instead of just looking at the strength of a car on impact we can look at how we can ensure cars are less lightly to get into accidents in the first place. Millions in research goes on designing cars so they can stop quicker, they they will be less likely to go out of control, that shock absorbers are more effective, that the weight of the car is better balanced. Understanding how cars interact with their environment is different conditions is essential.
So yes, we can take the immediate step of slowing down at the scene of an accident, but, we can also alter so much more than just our speed to ensure we are accident free.
Sorry if my last post came across as patronising and you felt I had misread/heard you. I just do not believe we have the luxury of picking up the pieces in a few years time when things get better. I feel we need to act now and we need to evolve the way we do business. We have come to the point where everything has changed.
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tcg
Only time will tell whether you or I have called it right on that one. I don't think it will change one iota in the medium to long term, you do. Let's have a pint in 10 years and see which way it went, loser pays.
Sounds very civilised.
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Hi,
Online business is the outfit of working from home and with a computer and internet connectivity; one is well placed to work from home. Though working from home does not necessarily mean one will be running their own business, for there are companies who employ people to work from the comforts of their own homes.
Online business is the outfit of working from home and with a computer and internet connectivity; one is well placed to work from home. Though working from home does not necessarily mean one will be running their own business, for there are companies who employ people to work from the comforts of their own homes.
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Hi Joy,
Truly interesting perspective over home based business. Yes, Home based business is the best way to earn money without any kind of stress and other hassles. But, we need to develop a good downline...
.
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what is ethical? we really try to practice what we preach
Well for us our 'ethical' stance shapes how we run our business at every level. For us it's certainly not just a label.
giving back - we adopt a charity of the year that we support through pro bono and financial support, each member of our team is given 6 days a year that they can use to provide free support to the cause of their choice and we provide free PR training for charities and not for profits
environmental - we use fairtrade products, low energy lightbulbs, green energy suppliers, use local independent suppliers where possible, recycle paper, cardboard, toners and cartridges, specify all our print using recycled materials and use public transport wherever feasible
work/lifestyle balance we pay for CIPR (Public Relations Professional Body) membership for our staff, provide them with an individual training programmes and training budget, have flexible working options, give staff the day off on their birthday and take the team out once a month.
Please don't tar us all with the same brush, some of us really try to give the word real meaning in terms of our business practices
__________________
Best wishes Helen, Upward Curve PR
Tel 020 8974 7230
Well for us our 'ethical' stance shapes how we run our business at every level. For us it's certainly not just a label.
giving back - we adopt a charity of the year that we support through pro bono and financial support, each member of our team is given 6 days a year that they can use to provide free support to the cause of their choice and we provide free PR training for charities and not for profits
environmental - we use fairtrade products, low energy lightbulbs, green energy suppliers, use local independent suppliers where possible, recycle paper, cardboard, toners and cartridges, specify all our print using recycled materials and use public transport wherever feasible
work/lifestyle balance we pay for CIPR (Public Relations Professional Body) membership for our staff, provide them with an individual training programmes and training budget, have flexible working options, give staff the day off on their birthday and take the team out once a month.
Please don't tar us all with the same brush, some of us really try to give the word real meaning in terms of our business practices
__________________
Best wishes Helen, Upward Curve PR
Tel 020 8974 7230
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F
FreeBusiness
Hi Helen
Nice try but until businesses pay the full costs they create they are not ethical. (Pollution = transfered costs) They may be trying to be ethical, that is a diffierent subject. Capitalism motivated by greed will never be an ethical business form .. ergo Time for a new business model.
Hyperatives are a hybrid of the cooperative and sole proprietorship models displays strengths of each and eliminates the weaknesses of both. It does not use money or need money to initiate. It has the ability to eliminate all public services and incorporate housework into the GNP.
robert
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Dear Robert
It's not a 'nice try'. It's what we do. We operate an ethically run business working with organisations and companies whose values we share.
I am not claiming that we are a co-operative or not for profit.
In a mixed economy like we have here in the UK, different business and operational models operate side by side.
It's not a 'nice try'. It's what we do. We operate an ethically run business working with organisations and companies whose values we share.
I am not claiming that we are a co-operative or not for profit.
In a mixed economy like we have here in the UK, different business and operational models operate side by side.
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FreeBusiness
Hi
I did n't mean that personal what I meant was that regardless of how any individual may try to run an ethical business so long as all out puts are not fully accounted for costs are being transferred onto other people and in no ones language is this ethical.
I have designed a new business model that is not a cooperative and it is not a sole proprietership but it takes elements from both. It prevents costs from being transferred, it is able to protect the ocean fisheries and air from people who would take from without proper recompense.
Robert
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