What do you want from Boris Johnson's successor?

[fisicx]

After the smoking ban and the uptake of efags the must have been considerable loss of revenue. Did the uncumbent government do anything to replace the loss of tax receipts? I can’t find any figures on this.

 

[gpietersz]

You should try here where a major A-Road now has cycle lanes despite both highly wide pavements being marked as shared use, it means cycles have more tarmac than motor vehicles, busses struggle to pass each other without straying into the cycle lane and motorcycles can't filter (and it is a major commuting route. All because transept are local and they could get hold of EU money for the road resurfacing if cycle lanes were put in, so it saved the council money from their budget)

I would like to see a calculation of the net effect of cycle lanes and cycling. Where I used to live, in Cheshire, it was common to see a line of cars stuck behind cyclists, and therefore polluting more.

Cycle lanes often slow traffic as you said, again causing more pollution.

Most cycle lanes are pretty empty, which means the benefits are limited

 

[Mark T Jones]

After the smoking ban and the uptake of efags the must have been considerable loss of revenue. Did the uncumbent government do anything to replace the loss of tax receipts? I can’t find any figures on this.

From schoolboy economics I recall that fags, booze and fuel were the economic cash-cows, due to inelastic demand.

Booze & fuel seem to have reached the limit of elasticity - I'm not sure on smoking stats, but overall, the cash cows are running out. Perhaps sugar tax is intended to be a replacement?

 

[japancool]

Are you aware that if EV drivers don't charge their cars, they won't pay for electricity?

Sorry, you're talking about irrelevant arguments? You're trying to "win" this argument as much as I am, whatever that means.

If they drive their car, they pay for electricity, presumably. The point is, vehicle usage, which takes place on roads, attracts a tax, in whatever form (and something will replace emissions taxes, eventually).

You may not agree with cyclists being taxed, but the more people who use them in lieu of cars, the more incentive there is for governments to tax them. Infrastructure will need to be there to support them, so those who use it should pay for it.

 

[Mark T Jones]

I would like to see a calculation of the net effect of cycle lanes and cycling. Where I used to live, in Cheshire, it was common to see a line of cars stuck behind cyclists, and therefore polluting more.

Cycle lanes often slow traffic as you said.

The problem being is that there is no policy, just a series of ad-hoc measures and promises, to which local councils usually pay minimal lip service.

Boris did fantastic things in south London for cycling. Most of mainland Europe is fully integrated - I appreciate that land mass is on their side, but it's also the result of full, coherent policies.

No tax on EVs is a temporary concession that will not last if EVs become the norm. Given the space given to cycle lanes and their usual emptiness they probably require more infrastructure per user or per person mile travelled. They similarly cause a disproportionate amount of congestion in some places, as I said above.

It may or may not change that's surmise - the current structure revolves entirely around emissions, so would need a full policy U-turn.

I also do not understand what you mean by "equivalent motorists"

Zero-emissions.

That is like saying if users of petrol cars never buy petrol they will not pay fuel duty.

Yip - a nonsense response to a nonsense point. What are the parameters? - my wife has an E-bike - does that give her equal rights to an EV? Will she have more rights if she chares it daily?


Still, the key, unanswered question is has anyone given any thought to the cost and practicalities of implementing such a system?

 

[Mark T Jones]

You may not agree with cyclists being taxed, but the more people who use them in lieu of cars, the more incentive there is for governments to tax them. Infrastructure will need to be there to support them, so those who use it should pay for it.

I've already stated that in theory I don't have a problem with it.

 

[japancool]

I do think taxation is overcomplicated though. Why pay tax on buying a car, then tax on charging/fueling it, and then tax on using it. The tax system is compounded upon compounding continuously.

According to this, the UK's tax system is the 11th most complex in the world:

UK’s Tax and Accountancy system named 11th most complex in Europe

Learn about the complexity of the UK's tax & accountancy system, ranked as the 11th in Europe. Gain insights into challenges & implications.

www.internationalaccountingbulletin.com

Perhaps Boris's successor could simplify it. I'm sure we all agree that would be a good thing.

 

[japancool]

ow do we ring fence Rees-Moggs wealth in order to protect ourselves against communism?

How about Rees-Mogg as the next PM? Bring back flogging, poor-houses, top-hats, guineas and half-crowns and canes for gentlemen, corsets for women.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

, who ride on the pavement where possible - they’re probably terrified of riding on the overcrowded roads and where there’s no decent provision for bikes, I don’t blame them!

I always ride on the pavement for my 10 minute cycle to work for exactly that reason but dismount and step aside for the occasional pedestrian. I'm big enough and ugly enough to avoid challenges from those who holler 'you shouldn't be riding on the pavement', but would like to see some legislation and guidance that allows folk to do so in certain circumstances.

'In 2020, 141 pedal cyclists were killed in Great Britain, whilst 4,215 were reported to be seriously injured and 11,938 slightly injured.'

I doubt any of the above were cycling on the path?

 

[simon field]

Where I used to live, in Cheshire, it was common to see a line of cars stuck behind cyclists, and therefore polluting more.

This is definitely a problem. The vast majority of those polluting vehicles (from what I see) are two tons of metal box with one single occupant, an empty armchair and an empty sofa!

 

[gpietersz]

This is definitely a problem. The vast majority of those polluting vehicles (from what I see) are two tons of metal box with one single occupant, an empty armchair and an empty sofa!

A lot of car use is for journeys that could not be done on bicycles. Can I cycle to London, or Cheshire, let alone St Andrews? Can I bring my shopping back from the supermarket on a bicycle? Very few of my car journeys could be done by bicycle. The last one was a 20 minute drive each way by car, it would be an hour and 20 minutes by bicycle. This is a journey I do once or twice a week.

I also almost always either have a passenger or luggage, or am on my way to pick up or drop off one or the other.

 

[japancool]

I wonder what increased bicycle use would mean for the high street, if people are limited in the amount of shopping they can carry.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

According to this, the UK's tax system is the 11th most complex in the world:

UK’s Tax and Accountancy system named 11th most complex in Europe

Learn about the complexity of the UK's tax & accountancy system, ranked as the 11th in Europe. Gain insights into challenges & implications.

www.internationalaccountingbulletin.com

Perhaps Boris's successor could simplify it. I'm sure we all agree that would be a good thing.

The last time the Tories tried to simply tax, the manual went from 2,000 pages to 20,000! And the number of loopholes increased exponentially...!

 

[IanSuth]

I have carried £250 of shopping on a motorcycle (when i forgot what means of transport I had arrived on with wife and we filled the trolley)

It was not a pleasant ride home even though it was only 2 miles

 

[simon field]

A lot of car use is for journeys that could not be done on bicycles. Can I cycle to London, or Cheshire, let alone St Andrews? Can I bring my shopping back from the supermarket on a bicycle? Very few of my car journeys could be done by bicycle. The last one was a 20 minute drive each way by car, it would be an hour and 20 minutes by bicycle. This is a journey I do once or twice a week.

I also almost always either have a passenger or luggage, or am on my way to pick up or drop off one or the other.

A lot of car use is for journeys that could be shared.

On a bike (not an e-bike), journeys take just under twice as long as in a car.

Things are changing, we need to think differently.

 

[alan1302]

I wonder what increased bicycle use would mean for the high street, if people are limited in the amount of shopping they can carry.

Are high streets struggling more in somewhere like the Netherlands than they are here?

 

[japancool]

Are high streets struggling more in somewhere like the Netherlands than they are here?

I have no idea. But then again, the Dutch public transport network is reportedly excellent.

 

[alan1302]

I have no idea.

You can look into that and then see if more people cycling in the UK would affect the high st.

I expect it would have a benefit if more people cycled...more parking for those that can't or won't cycle and everyone else is getting healthier and fitter...seems a win win...spending more in the shops and paying more tax, which will help pay for the roads which will need less maintenence as cycles don't tear up the roads as much as heavier vehicles.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Are high streets struggling more in somewhere like the Netherlands than they are here?

It would also be nteresting to see the retail effect of car-hostile cities such as Oxford.

As a country we really are backwards in thus respect- obviously favouring revenues from parking, congestion charges etc over any kind of meaningful move away from car obsession

Politically, cycle charging is never going to be on any leader's agenda There must be someone bold enough to have an agenda that moves away from needless use of cars

 

[japancool]

You can look into that and then see if more people cycling in the UK would affect the high st.

I expect it would have a benefit if more people cycled...more parking for those that can't or won't cycle and everyone else is getting healthier and fitter...seems a win win...spending more in the shops and paying more tax, which will help pay for the roads which will need less maintenence as cycles don't tear up the roads as much as heavier vehicles.

Coupled with a good public transport system, I agree.

I've been in a country where cycling use is high - Japan. I have never needed to use a car there, except late at night when I was drunk, or to go somewhere I was uncertain of the directions to. And even in big cities, cycling use is very high. People generally only use cars to deliver goods or if travelling a distance with their families. Two thirds of households in central Tokyo don't own a car.

But also, people don't commonly do a big weekly shop, and supermarkets are easily accessible from everywhere.

 

[DontAsk]

EV drivers do, however, pay VAT on the electricity they use for driving, which cyclists don't.

Cyclists pay VAT on their own fuel, albeit some will be zero rated.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Could Tesco's and the like give an option to do your own shopping, to be left with them for home delivery an hour or so later?

Fraught with complications for highly perishable foods needing refrigeration but a dream for cyclists?

 

[IanSuth]

Could Tesco's and the like give an option to do your own shopping, to be left with them for home delivery an hour or so later?

Fraught with complications for highly perishable foods needing refrigeration but a dream for cyclists?

That is exactly what Iceland do (as long as you spend over a certain amount) and they are dealing in frozen goods.

My Local Waitrose (which is reasonably large and used for trialling new initiatives) has a scheme whereby they will loan you a goose necked bicycle trailer to carry shopping home in

 

[gpietersz]

On a bike (not an e-bike), journeys take just under twice as long as in a car.

Really? You can cycle at 35mph for several hours? That is what you would need to do to be that fast on a mostly motorway journey. You should easily win the Tour de France.

Even if you can average 25mph to do a journey that is a mixture of A road and some slower bits in half the you could in a car are a professional level cyclist. That is most of my journeys.

It is not reasonably to expect everyone to be an athlete.

Two thirds of households in central Tokyo don't own a car.

I never owned a car in when I lived in central London or for most of my time in central Manchester. This are closer (so lots of things are within walking distance), public transport is better, and its cheaper to occasionally use a taxi than run a car.

I bought a car in Manchester when we had a baby.

If you live in a smaller town, or a rural area, or many suburbs you do need a car or your life becomes very restricted

I hate driving and would far rather do without a car. I even tried public transport for almost exactly the same journey as I mentioned earlier, but when you add waiting for trains, walking to and from stations, killing time somewhere because there is so long before the next train or you had to arrive early. it turns 20 to 30 min each way, to well over an hour each way.

 

[Newchodge]

On a bike (not an e-bike), journeys take just under twice as long as in a car.

On a dual carriageway? I would agree about urban journeys, but not others.

 

[Mark T Jones]

I never owned a car in when I lived in central London or for most of my time in central Manchester. This are closer (so lots of things are within walking distance), public transport is better, and its cheaper to occasionally use a taxi than run a car.


If you live in a smaller town, or a rural area, or many suburbs you do need a car or your life becomes very restricted

I hate driving and would far rather do without a car. I even tried public transport for almost exactly the same journey as I mentioned earlier, but when you add waiting for trains, walking to and from stations, killing time somewhere because there is so long before the next train or you had to arrive early. it turns 20 to 30 min each way, to well over an hour each way.

This is the point that actually matters - what in media parlance might be a 'joined up transport strategy' - one that takes in

Car sharing
Bus
Train
cycling (hell, lets even throw horse riding in there)
Alternatives
And of course, car use in the right context.

Rail travel is mostly great for getting from one big point to another and dire when getting from non-connected rural destinations.

Buses (outside big cities) are random, and in truly rural areas mostly nonsensical (you can go to Guildford on a Wednesday, but can't come back until Tuesday). I would personally argue that these should nationalised and run as services, not businesses.

The whole tedious car vs bike debate shows a complete lack of understanding between road users - It doesn't exist in much of Europe so has to be down to policy.

The problem, as already raised, is that motorists are great revenue earners, so what incentive is there to discourage them?

 

[Elliott Coleman]

Ditch Net Zero (get fracking).
Deal with illegal migration.
Make NI for NHS optional. I'd rather pay for private healthcare.

 

[DontAsk]

On a bike (not an e-bike), journeys take just under twice as long as in a car.

Without some qualification, that is just utter tosh.

 

[simon field]

Really? You can cycle at 35mph for several hours? That is what you would need to do to be that fast on a mostly motorway journey. You should easily win the Tour de France.

Even if you can average 25mph to do a journey that is a mixture of A road and some slower bits in half the you could in a car are a professional level cyclist. That is most of my journeys.

It is not reasonably to expect everyone to be an athlete.



I never owned a car in when I lived in central London or for most of my time in central Manchester. This are closer (so lots of things are within walking distance), public transport is better, and its cheaper to occasionally use a taxi than run a car.

I bought a car in Manchester when we had a baby.

If you live in a smaller town, or a rural area, or many suburbs you do need a car or your life becomes very restricted

I hate driving and would far rather do without a car. I even tried public transport for almost exactly the same journey as I mentioned earlier, but when you add waiting for trains, walking to and from stations, killing time somewhere because there is so long before the next train or you had to arrive early. it turns 20 to 30 min each way, to well over an hour each way.

Sorry, but you will never average much more than 40mph on any journey - motorway or no motorway it’s the bit at either end that brings your average plummeting down. Have a check - you’ll be surprised.

Also, the point is that many journeys could either be car-shared or cycled. It’s just that people don’t want to. They’re happier spending needless money on fuel than being bothered to work something out.

 

[simon field]

Without some qualification, that is just utter tosh

Which qualifications do I need to know how to ride a bike, and to know how long it takes?

These ones:

1) My commute is just under 10 miles. This takes just over 20 minutes in my car. It takes a shade over 35 minutes on my bike.

2) My sons live in another town. It takes 50 minutes in a car, 90 minutes by bike.

3) This is all at a leisurely pace.

4) Lots of people could do lots of little things and they all add up.

5) You should cut down on the pork pies mate, get some exercise!

 

[Ricardo LGA]

The best way to sort many of those things out is to remove government's involvement. Police and defence need government control; the rest could be given to the private sector to work out.

That does not work. Private companies exist to make profit.

 

[DontAsk]

Sorry, but you will never average much more than 40mph on any journey - motorway or no motorway it’s the bit at either end that brings your average plummeting down. Have a check - you’ll be surprised.

I would stop digging if I were you. It all depends where you live and where you are going, i.e., personal circumstances.

 

[DontAsk]

3) This is all at a leisurely pace.

Perhaps you need to drive a bit faster. I was taught to make progress when learning to drive.

 

[Newchodge]

I would stop digging if I were you. It all depends where you live and where you are going, i.e., personal circumstances.

For example, the last kilometre of my journey home includes a gradient of 12% and is 9% on average. I can get up there in the car, (having just driven 15 miles on motorway (not available to bike) and A road at 70 mph) in 3 minutes, it would take me a minimum of 20 minutes on a bike, despite the Round Britain cycle race doing it in 4 minutes.

 

[NeilHarries]

More tax incentives for small business, reduction in red tape and removal of IR35.

 

[simon field]

I would stop digging if I were you. It all depends where you live and where you are going, i.e., personal circumstances.

Yes, it does. Which means that lots of people *could* do things if they wanted to.

Rather than having such a negative ‘can’t do’ attitude, try thinking about ways we can all do our bit.

 

[simon field]

Perhaps you need to drive a bit faster. I was taught to make progress when learning to drive.

But then I would crash into the car in front.

So, a stupid idea.

 

[simon field]

For example, the last kilometre of my journey home includes a gradient of 12% and is 9% on average. I can get up there in the car, (having just driven 15 miles on motorway (not available to bike) and A road at 70 mph) in 3 minutes, it would take me a minimum of 20 minutes on a bike, despite the Round Britain cycle race doing it in 4 minutes.

It’s very surprising what you can achieve on a bike once you’re fit, and extremely rewarding.
Can’t beat that good old endorphin rush to start the day ?

 

[sarky]

Like the energy companies?

Yes. I'm old enough to remember the nationalized ones.

 

[IanSuth]

More tax incentives for small business, reduction in red tape and removal of IR35.

Removal of IR35 won't happen although you might get a rationalisation of how it is implemented.

I was working in recruitment when it's reason for existence was happening. Throughout the early 2000's a score of "payroll" companies were badgering agencies that if they got their temps to become contractors they could save on the employers NI contributions, pensions and holiday pay.

Look at the maths- a fairly normal temp doing the job of an average £26k person would be getting £13ph, the holiday pay to cover 28 days means add 12% (works 46.4 weeks accruing the 5.6 weeks hols), then add NI at 12.8% (including on holiday but i cant be bothered with freepay) means add another 12.8% then 3% for pension. 13 x 1.12 x 1.128 x 1.03 = 16.92, that is before you have covered anything other than direct wages and tax on those. A margin of about 50% on hourly rate is as much as clients will stomach (and many want a discount) so £13/19.50. That gives £2.58 or 15% actual margin from which you have to pay everything including the credit costs of clients wanting to pay 30-60 days from invoice (which is days after payment of wages).

So many many agencies either left the temp/contract market or started pushing temps to be contractors through PSC's or umbrellas, suddenly they could tell workers they would actually pay them £14 and not make them take time off for holidays or pay into a pension (many warehouse workers had no interest in a paying into a Uk Nest pension they wanted £ now especially if only in UK short term), they would also tell the companies they would charge them £19 not £19.50.

so £13/19.50 became £14/19 and everyone was happy ?

Except now no £1.86 going to the govt in Employers NI

Also the umbrellas and PSC providing companies were very very aggressive on claiming every allowance going - "your base is the agencies office so you can claim mileage to the client daily, plus you can make subsistence claims for lunch" so what had been a way of working for real small companies and the specialist IT contractors doing Niche jobs ended up being a way to charge less for Min wage warehouse people.

The govt cottoned on and what had started as a scheme to ensure Highly paid consultants in the public sector weren't just avoiding tax was suddenly rolled out to cover the entire of industry with threats that if people were found to be disguised employees the end user would be liable.