What do do with ethnicity and diversity data

[paulears]

An organisation I am a member of got an influx of new members who sided with some trendier older ones and started to develop ethnicity and diversity data, as they felt the organisation was not moving with the times. Indeed, the historic title was sexist - it wasn't 'The Guild of MilkMEN' but you get the idea - it's now the Guild of Milk professionals' after a lot of upset and voting.

Recently the Guild Council tried to collect data to find out for certain what the makeup is. In collecting it they upset people again by including religion, sexual orientation and other data that upset many, inlcuding me. I stick me head above the parapet and get the complaints, but I also get private mails from members encouraging me to keep asking the difficult questions.

I'm now laughing a little because the results are out. We are a predominantly male organisation, with virtually all members being straight, Christian and above 50. We also have people with bad backs, and lots who are now more in management than production. Clearly our membership is out of date, old and stuck in our ways. We do appear from the total members and the percentages to have 1 trans member - but the person who declared himself in that category did it as a protest at the question, as he emailed me.

The Council now have the data - but I'm waiting for the immediate declaration that we are racist and sexist in composition, and don't represent younger members. They'll draw bizarre conclusions, set in motion ridiculous membership drives and try to convert the membership to something new and contemporary. It will be fun.

My suspicion is simply that the organisation traditionally appealed to the workforce of the 60s and 70s, but younger people have not joined over the years, leaving us age heavy. Practically everything we do is aimed at what then current membership like. We have two succesful high quality magazines, we use an outdated list server style forum, not a modern one like this one - many still get their messages from the forum via email. The facebook group gets far less use.

The new trendys on the Council will see the results as proof we need to change and totally miss the fact that the membership in quantity are quite happy with how we are.

I think we could have predicted the outcome almost 99% accurately by looking at active members.

I'm sure there must be loads of organisations that are in the same boat. Stats showing non-diverse membership, but not enough new members to justify losing old members by change.

 

[Fagin2021]

There are indeed many organisations in the same boat.

The problem is that as the older members die off/leave/move away they are not replaced, and the organisation withers and dies.

 

[IanSuth]

I belong to a motorcycle association with the same issues

I think on average the 20 somethings expect things to happen and be reacted to quicker, very few trade/special interest associations can do that even when big things happen in their sphere. So the youngsters will belong to transient social media groups that pop up for/in response to a particular event then disappear only for a lot of the same people to populate the next similar group.

I don't know the answer but I have been proposing for years (to deaf ears) that the only sensible way forward in my opinion is to have social media co-ordinators whose job/task/role is to spot these initiating events as they occur and immediately (as in within the hour) get a group/page whatever up and going asking for peoples thoughts to fuel engagement with the organisation- but they need to sort of start and step back not try and chair it as then it becomes just a reflection of the old structures which dont attract the younger members

However i am not one of those youngsters so am on the outside looking in and am therefore likely wrong or not completely right at least

 

[Financial-Modeller]

The new trendys on the Council will see the results as proof we need to change and totally miss the fact that the membership in quantity are quite happy with how we are.

In my very limited experience of of a similar situation, those determined to effect change didn't understand the concept of happiness.

 

[AllUpHere]

I've never really understood the need to force diversity. To me, to try to positively discriminate is still discrimination.

Some clubs and organisations are always going to lean a certain way.

I shoot a lot, and live in one of the most affluent areas in the country. Shooting appeals to a certain demographic, but does depend slightly on the type of shooting. If you go to a well funded game shoot you can almost guarantee that you will be there with a bunch of middle aged (or older) affluent males who all have a very similar accent. If you shoot at a club the membership will be a little more working class, but still a fairly tight and distinctive demographic. This isn't through discrimination, it's simply because shooting stuff seems not to appeal to other demographics.

I suppose if we really think about it, we need to work out why certain demographics stay away from certain things. If it's simply because they have no interest in it, all is well; if they stay away because they don't feel as though they would be welcome, that's a big problem.

I would love to post that all groups I frequent would be inclusive, but that would be a lie. I've taken gay friends shooting and not even given it a second thought. Would I take a bloke in a dress to a very traditional formal shoot where most of the members have their guns delivered straight from the Purdey gun rooms, not a chance; they would get a very hard time.

Anyway, it would appear I've gone full circle with this and as such may not even have a point. Ignore me, and talk amongst yourselves.

 

[Ozzy]

The problem is that as the older members die off/leave/move away they are not replaced, and the organisation withers and dies.

Exactly this, it's a problem across the board in so many areas of society. Hell even these forums are impacted with trendy "TikTok" and the likes getting the trendy new businesses compared to an old fashioned forum.
I'm a VP of our local Chamber and we have these conversations, as does the FSB and I know the IoD have a major issue with numbers reducing because their members keep dying of old age!

The best analogy I can give was a round table I was at talking about schools preparing students for the world of work. It was run by the LEP and everyone round the table was predominantly old, grey hair white (balanced mix of men and women though). Everyone was complaining that most kids starting out in work don't know how to use email and write letters...
I challenged the thinking and asked, could it be possible we are the problem and not the children? Are we just trying to hang on to a time gone and in fact we should be adapting for the future and not try hanging on to the way business was in the past? That led to an interesting and actually quite productive discussion.

The reality is most membership type organisations that have been around a few years are probably out of date and out of touch. The existing members will be happy the way things are otherwise they wouldn't be members, but they are going to die at some point and fresh blood needs to come in below them. That fresh blood will have new values, new beliefs and new ways of doing things. The established members in any organisation either need to adapt or accept they are on their way out, and that applies to businesses too...and I include myself in that.
Oh I miss the simpler days, such as stopping off at callboxes to phone the office for my messages rather than carrying a mobile around all the time, and communication by letter rather then instant responses expected from emails!

 

[fisicx]

I'm a member of a classic car club and it's no different. Membership is slowly dwindling because the board are old school and don't want change. They like to talk about clutches and wheel bearings down the pub or at car shows when everyone else wants to get out and drive their cars. The other issue with classic cars is each marque has a demographic related to the cars they grew up with. Followers of Austin Healy's will be older than those who like Hot Hatches. You won't ever get diversity.

 

[japancool]

The taxi industry is not very diverse in the area where I live.

 

[peppermintlover]

I think that you finding out about this data is a step closer to a better time in your organization. It is true that a lot of organizations need to adapt to the current state of the majority of the workforce if its members want it to continue existing. However, I do also understand the position that if this is done, the essence of what that organization has to become "that organization" can be lost in the transition. This is why careful planning and execution is really necessary to be able to properly and gradually open your organization to the younger population.

 

[Caledonian TV]

We are a predominantly male organisation, with virtually all members being straight, Christian and above 50....

My suspicion is simply that the organisation traditionally appealed to the workforce of the 60s and 70s, but younger people have not joined over the years, leaving us age heavy.

Yes, I noticed the G** had changed it's name... I'll turn 60 in about 14 months time. Got my ACTT ticket in 1979 and completed my 'time' in '83. I've been 'strongly encouraged' by various people from time to time to join over the years. - But never have.

What put me off was stuff like 'To qualify you will be required to have at least three years' professional experience in any branch of television. You will be entitled to vote on G** matters, use our official logo, and append MG** to your name.'

At 21 (1983) I found this pretentious... 'to qualify' as a fledgling professional ******man I'd had to spend four years as an apprentice and complete a course of study based on a City and Guilds syllabus with extra bits 'nailed on' by the IBA... and that was just the beginning of my studies and training. This didn't entitle me to any post-nominals (letters after my name). Just frequent reminders from my gaffers that I was just about at the stage where they could take the stabilisers off...

At 42, (2004) with some entitlement to post-nominals representing thousands of hours of academic study, not to mention a quarter century of experience; I was again 'encouraged' to join.

By this stage I found the line not just pretentious but offensive...

By that time I was lecturing in TV production and turning out students who, after 2 years and at least 2400 hours of study would have an HND - but still have to put in another two years and another 2400 hours before they would be entitled to post nominals...

I found this cynical aping of genuine academic achievement somewhat desperate and pitiful and something I wanted nothing whatsoever to do with. - And off course, there are worse examples in 'the trade' which popped up in the late 80s... an 'institute', for example, that for a few quid and a mickeymouse 'assessment' offers the lazy and the feckless letters that scream 'CHARLATAN' to anyone in the know...

I just wasn't going to go there! - And I know many others who felt similarly.

The G** does at least require some real experience and is somewhat respectable, but still...

I've always pictured the G** headquarter as fake-oak-panelled, pipe-smoke filled, grey-jumpered and insecurely clutching the straws of vacuous pot-nominal pomposity. And there's maybe your problem... at 58 going on 59 I'm hardly in the young up and coming category.

Gathering virtue-signalling statistics isn't going to prove or reveal anything.

If you work in any of the creative industries you can expect about 1 person in 3 that you work with to be LGBT; out or otherwise. I don't know anyone who cares (what anyone else's orientation is) or ever did - although I could name many a cheerful chappie who enjoys horse-frightening for the sport; homophobia being such a pitiful affliction.

Ethnicity? Hmmm... There are bits of Roma in my background and a big chunk of my family is Hong-Kong Chinese; don't worry though, you'd never know to look at me! Religion? Well don't expect to work for the BBC if you're a working class scheemie from the Red Road who (though irreligious) happens to have attended a Catholic State school...

People are a mish-mash; it's the way humans are wired and I suspect most people do understand this. But, if you do happen to be a mongrel, well you won't feel comfortable in an 'old boys' club and that's been the case for many a long year... My point being you can analyse the stats 'till you're blue in the face. But frankly, that won't solve a basic problem... If the G** was seen as old, stuffy, pretentious and irrelevant to young people 35 years ago; what do you think it attracted over all those years and why do you think it's running out of them?

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Can I suggest this thread actively encourages female members to contribute followed by a campaign targeting 16 year old Tuck Shop entrepreneurs!

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

I have a strong dislike for equality for equalities sake. In the 2012 London Olympics there were 10 Men's and 3 women's Boxing weight classes. In Paris 2024 Men's Classes drop to 7 and Women's increase to 6.
One would be forgiven for thinking that this is a reflection on greater participation by women, the reality being that in the UK, where major expense and promotion to elevate female boxing to dizzier heights has had little effect on the 96% male 4% female divide. In the name of perceived equality no consideration has been given to the safety reasons for the traditional 12 boxing classes and in reducing the men's weight groups opportunity is being denied.