What are your thoughts on Estate Agents? (no swearing please)

[Christophe JD]

So... you're going to put your house on the market...

Do you lean towards a traditional High Street Estate Agent?
If so, a small one office agent (pay around £1200), a larger independent (£2000), or a big corporate (£3000)

Or, do you go for the online agents with 'local people'?
a la Purple Bricks, Yopa, Sarah Beeney's, etc... (£900/£1000)

Would you like to 'see' your agent, or happy just to have one off contact and do the rest through a call centre?

What about something in the middle? An online agent with a local office (not high street), but you still get the face to face service... accompanied viewings, same person on the end of the phone, etc... (and pay between £1000 to £1500)

 

[ethical PR]

If you're carrying out market research put together a properly constructed questionnaire with a link.

You'll get better quality information and it's easier to analyse results.

Feedback without demographics is pretty meaningless.

Estate agents don't base cimmussion on size of agency but % of sale.

 

[Christophe JD]

Where I operate, and the average value of houses we all charge a fixed fee, rather than percentages nowadays.
Was more interested in hearing peoples thoughts on the different types of agents and which type they'd go for

 

[fisicx]

I'd prefer not to use one at all. They charge a lot of money for doing very little. They have no idea how to take pictures, write copy or sell a house. Their skill seems to be limited to putting the property on right move.

Most of their time seems to spent asking for copies of documents they have already been sent. And if the sale is a little bit out of the ordinary they don't have a clue what to do.

This is personal experience in the last 5 sales. But if I can't do it myself, then I would always use an independent.

 

[patientlady]

If I moved again I would def try no sale no fee online option. They will only place on Right move anyway, which is the extent of there advertising the property.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

I think they advise a selling price that helps them sell as quick as possible rather than the real value price that could be quite a bit higher but only take a bit more effort to sell
Sadly most people take the advised price as gospel

 

[Ticks]

I hate estate agents! We were selling a 2 bedroom flat in Fulham. We were told it would go easily. It was a complete pain! I don't think I would use a traditional estate agent ever again, did nothing for the extortionate fee. My husband went round a lot of estate agents and chose the one he liked because he liked the guy he met. We found out he was the head of the team and we never saw him again just a load of complete muppets. So that was a huge black mark against them.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Depends on the property

for fairly standard, lower value properties Purple Bricks have been great

For more individual or expensive properties I would look to deal with an independent agent who actually cares about the property and the area.

Under no circumstances would I use one of the slippery, spikey-haired big high street agents

 

[Mark T Jones]

I think they advise a selling price that helps them sell as quick as possible rather than the real value price that could be quite a bit higher but only take a bit more effort to sell
Sadly most people take the advised price as gospel

More often than not., the likes of Mann & Co and Foxtons will dramatically over value in order to trap you into signing a 12 week contract

Like you say, people unfortunately love to be duped into false 'values' on their own property. Once on the market they will march through a procession of unengaged buyers and urge you to accept any offer made

That is the rogue end of the spectrum. To counter the horror stories, I can cite a couple of dealings with true professionals - the best being an agent who handled the sale of a 'project' property following my divorce

The usual range of bad selling tactics, and one family-run local agent who commented 'not everyone wants a property in this condition, but I have a few buyers on my books who will pay about £350K

5 viewings and 2 on-target offers - and professional follow up.

 

[MikeJ]

I think they advise a selling price that helps them sell as quick as possible rather than the real value price that could be quite a bit higher but only take a bit more effort to sell
Sadly most people take the advised price as gospel

The "% of sale price" model is the cause of that. Why spend three times longer trying to get an extra few percent of your fee. The fixed price model isn't better.

What would work is a "fixed price plus a bigger percent of anything over target". That would get them working for you.

 

[Paul Norman]

There is much about many estate agents that is frustrating. Looking around, for example, at properties on the market, suggests that they have done little or no research on property values. The pictures are aweful. The descriptions are borderline lies.

But. The truth is this. If I was selling my house I would use one. If I was buying a house, I would pop into the local agents to see what was around. And every house purchase and sale I have made in my life has involved an estate agent. And the real hold up on the transactions has seldom been the fault of the estate agent involved. And if the estate agents told people what their houses were really likely to be worth, there would be friction.

So I am back to here. There are good agents, and some very, very bad ones. And house sales/purchases are becoming more complex as much because of other factors as estate agents.

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

Estate agents/letting agents - both the same thing to me - useless and greedy S.O.B.s who want money for nothing.

My Landlord (who is also a very good friend of mine) decided to give up his properties to a larger "chain" as he was trying to get his life sorted out with less work and more "me" time for him and his then partner...

He was charged - £900 upfront with a £200 contingency for "repair work" which was a complete joke... then charged a further month's rent (£395) when they put in the tenant... that HE had already interviewed and told him to go to them for keys!

It then took a further 2 months before he was paid his rent... with the usual 10% charge discounted from his monthly payment (which he was fine with)...

THEN to top it off... the chap rings the letting agents to inform them of an issue with the electrics... who then proceeded to pass on to him the Landlord's number to get permission off him to get an electrician in... and then charged the Landlord £90 for the privilege?! £90?!!? WTF for?! - They already took £200 for repair work so why the hell didn't they just get an Electrician in?!

My Landlord, then sent around his own Electrician to sort it out... and was then charged a further £20 for the bloody key, that the Electrician didn't even go around for as he already had a Master key?!

12 months into the contract - he contacts them to tell him that he's going to cancel their services... and he's charged another £480 for leaving them?!? WTF are they on?

To put it politely - Letting agents/Estate agents = money laundering scum bags who can't hold a real job down - so charge the earth for no service and no idea on how to run a business.

There... Managed it without swearing!

 

[Mark T Jones]

To put it politely - Letting agents/Estate agents = money laundering scum bags who can't hold a real job down - so charge the earth for no service and no idea on how to run a business.

There... Managed it without swearing!

But relying on second hand, jaundiced opinion

I have rented out a property in Sutton for 12 years. As usual, I chose a privately-owned local agent to manage it

My own mistake was in thinking I could cut them out and earn more

Error 1 - went to the Council, who actually paid me an incentive. The start of an 18 month horror story worthy of a documentary (included guns, drugs and prostitution)

The original agent actually helped me to resolve the matter despite being unpaid

Error 2: I advertised and found my own tenant. The actual cost was marginally less than the agent's fees but time hassle and lost rent made it a costly alternative

Next turn, I chatted with a cheaper, apparently more pro active agent - who made promises that were frankly ludicrous. Took references and read their contract - absolutely dreadful

Happy to return to the original agent who takes a hands-on approach to running the property

As with all things, it really is about how you buy.

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

Ahem... sorry, Mark but no... hardly second hand when I actually work with the guy I'm the one that rang to cancel the contract

I am also aware how estate agents/lettings agents work as a tenant and previous home owner.

 

[domainguy]

I don't think they do much for their fee. If I could post directly on rightmove I wouldnt use one.

 

[MikeJ]

Ahem... sorry, Mark but no... hardly second hand when I actually work with the guy I'm the one that rang to cancel the contract

I am also aware how estate agents/lettings agents work as a tenant and previous home owner.

That's what second hand is though. It wasn't you, but the guy you work with.

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

Shouldn't jump to conclusions Mikej

I work with him - as an equal he's not my boss - just my landlord and very good friend - we had the discussion about using the letting agents - we also had the discussion to withdraw from the contract.

It's his money not mine that's the only difference between us - hence why I know everything about his business, his life and how he was treated by the letting agent.

 

[MikeJ]

BUT IT'S NOT YOU!

 

[BTON Agency]

Wow - a lot of misconceptions on here regarding estate agents. I could go on and explain why using an online agent could potentially lose you thousands of pound as opposed to saving a few hundred on the fee but feel looking at the comments this would be of little use due to the rather fixed views.

What i will say is a traditional full service estate agent gets paid on results. and believe me i have 20 years experience the hard bit is not finding a buyer its getting the very best price and keeping a chain together and getting the sale to the finish line.

An online agent is just a means to get your property onto Rightmove. They take your money up front and have no interest in negging the best price or sorting issues out.

In my experience (yes i am an agent) people that have used an online option will not use it again. There is also a very murky world of how online agents manipulate figures that could potentially deceive the public / investors.

It is also worth noting that not a single "large" online agent has made a penny profit they are all running at losses.

If anyone wants to debate further feel free as long as it is reasoned not just moaning and shouting stereotypes. This is a subject i am incredibly passionate about.

 

[fisicx]

It's not just the online estate agents. The ones on the high street are just as bad. When we brought our house the seller used a local agent whose billboards are plastered all over town. He was assured that all was going to plan but it turned out they had done nothing at all because it was complicated and didn't fit into the sausage factory approach to selling property.

In 30 years of using them I've only met one estate agent who provided a good service.

A typical example of of shoddy service is getting documents from the land registry. I was charged £250 for a poorly photocopied document which on examination wasn't even complete. They hadn't even bothered to check the document they had received. Useless.

I also used a letting agent for a flat I owned. The tenant ruined the decor and the agent (who visited every 3 months) didn't even bother to let me know. When I pointed out the clause in the lease that required them to do so they admitted they didn't even know that clause was in the lease and offered to arrange for redecoration if I paid them a commission!

 

[BTON Agency]

Last post was a little off topic.

To the original poster. I guess reading your comments you are looking at different options launching your own agency. Good luck you will enjoy and love it.

I would not pigeon hole an % fixed fee or upfront fee, hybrid or any other option. Get your office open and take each val separate and tailor your fee to them. Some will want no service for £500 some see the value. could always adopt the countrywide model and charge £995 up front to list and they can switch to full service at any point with the £995 knocked off the 1.5% fee.

If your advertising is spot on and you do a good job you will be fine

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

If anyone wants to debate further feel free as long as it is reasoned not just moaning and shouting stereotypes. This is a subject i am incredibly passionate about.

I don't believe I was moaning or a shouting Stereotype I gave an open and honest opinion based upon my (despite what mikej "thinks") thoughts and experience of a letting agent/estate agent.

Needless to say, my second ex-wife also works in the industry - and is loving the job - she works for a more down to earth company who's 5 main Landlords own the majority of the local town that she lives in (in the privately rented accommodation aspects).

I've seen the difficulties from all directions within the industry - including the maintenance side and property cleaning after "crap" tenants have left all the way down to being a tenant for a private landlord both exceptionally good (My current Landlord) to the worst of the worst (previous estate agent/letting agent for a private Landlord).

In fact, I believe I posted the issues that I were having here on these forums some 4 years ago.

With regards to a discussion however, you stated above that the larger companies don't make any profit and that they run at a loss... as I'm sure you're probably more qualified to assess that - from the outside and offset after dealing with such a larger company - how can such companies not be making any money when they're charging just shy of £1500 per property before the Landlord receives their monthly income some 2 months later? and to charge the standard 10% per property... when they're actually not doing anything at all to earn that 10%... most don't even "earn" 2-3% to be fair

Obviously I understand the fact of "advertising costs" being extremely over the top - but a lot of the larger companies are only a brand/franchise and not the actual estate agents/letting agents... if this is the case are you suggesting that the smaller companies that operate under the banner of larger brands/franchises are trading on an "illegal basis" within the compounds of the companies manifest/structure etc?

 

[BTON Agency]

Fisicx.

Good and bad in every industry. Go on recommendation and a lot of research. Sure its the same in your field. A lot of shark SEO"experts" out there.

Most people spend more time researching a new car than researching their agent or new home despite it being their largest asset.

Not sure why an agent needs anything from land registry? - Do you mean conveyancer? they are another massive issue as they are stuck in the dark ages and charge through the nose in some cases.

As for the letting agent, again some good some bad. But if he was inspecting the property every 3 months were you not concerned why you did not get a report back after the first 3/4 months?

Not making excuses for the agents mistakes that have cost you and stressed you over time but to tar an industry is really unfair.

The main problem is moving is emotionally stressful. and if things are not going right you look for someone to blame. 9/10 times its the agent even though it is not their fault. I have a chain today i am dealing with i have 2 properties been ready to go for 4 weeks. but 2 links up it seems to have stalled. i cannot speak to the solicitor as too far up and i do not have authority, cannot talk to the seller as not my client. I can only chase the estate agent who i know is fobbing me off.

My two sellers / three buyers getting fed up and being nice but having a moan at me as they want to move. Nothing i can do but i bet you they will not see it that way.

So because a bad agent is in the chain the rest get tarred, is that fair?

 

[RBS]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-f-er-b-h-complained-filthy-crowded-flat.html

Typical EA.

 

[BTON Agency]

I don't believe I was moaning or a shouting Stereotype

No you definatley were not, but i have tried educating some in the past who are just very obnoxious.

Okay name an online estate agent ........ Whoever you named lost millions last year.

I have to be careful what i say as do not want to get myself or indeed this site in trouble legally.

Take a coloured house brick that could be seen as the largest online agent. They are losing millions of pounds each year not even close to breaking even.

The online advertising, ppc, tech team, tv adverts, staffing, compliance, portals, press, radio is costing them millions each month.

All the online agents together have less than 5% share of the UK housing market. They have no real service and any conveyancer or property professional will back that up.

In its present model it is not sustainable. The CEO's and Original investors have made alot of money from "seed funding and IPO's" but the real investors are yet to see a single penny in return.

Feel free to ask any questions, will do my best to answer.

 

[BTON Agency]

Typical EA.

Its unfortunate, unprofessional, should never happen but not typical!

 

[MikeJ]

Purple Bricks* are about two years old. Hardly surprising they've not shown a profit yet really. I think the internet will be the way forward in buying and selling "bog standard" property, and decent estate agents will make a living taking care of top end and odd ball work.

That's obviously my view.<removed>


* Let's name them. I'm pretty sure the world won't end
<removed>

 

[BTON Agency]

I sound like i am trying to find fault and i promise i am not.

Problem is there is no such thing as a "Bog Standard" sale - thats what they want you to think. far too many variables within chains, leases, solicitors, individuals, lenders, buyers, sellers, timescales.

Nothing is straight forward, every sale / purchase will have difficult issues to overcome.

You can also look at emoov if we are naming names, perceived big boy before PB came along, trading close to 6 years. Not a penny in profit.

Easy property going a couple of years again raised millions in funding nowhere near breaking even, Estates Direct owned by one of the wealthiest men in Britain, nowhere near making money.

The problem is agents are not very good at showing what the public receive. So you rightfully perceive in some cases we do nothing.

But anybody is more than welcome to come and spend a day with us and see what the job really entails. Its not all taking pretty pictures and opening doors, Although i wish sometimes it was.

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

But anybody is more than welcome to come and spend a day with us and see what the job really entails

Can I have a go at flying those drones you use to take videos & photos of those big country properties.

 

[DontAsk]

And the real hold up on the transactions has seldom been the fault of the estate agent involved.

I have often found I get better, faster information from the chain of estate agents than from the solicitors!

 

[Mistahclarke]

I question the need for estate agents. Personal experience puts them very low on my list of favourite professions.

 

[kulture]

On the assumption that this is a BUSINESS question and not a time out ramble I have removed a number of posts that were just flaming. Please stick to the topic.

 

[paulears]

My opinion on estate agencies is coloured by two family members who have been in the business and two friends who still work in the business. This market area is cut-throat, and target based for their workforce. Those people able to deal with stress and pressure can do well, but the big players hit their staff hard. When sales are low, tactics sink in moral content, and genuine, honest advice is difficult to get, and corners have to be cut. The smaller independents try to behave better, but have a poorer market share because the customer base is suspicious about what actually happens, and trust is 'light', as everyone needs them, but few think them good value and a necessary evil. The regulation of the industry just means they develop sneakier tactics. The big players have dynamic targets that frequently move goalposts, creating more activity from the staff with the willingness to bend rules, but not make this known, and real stress to those unable to operate at the fringes of what is acceptable.

It does seem to me that dodgy tactics are indeed employed, but kept personal, so the company can distance itself from the staff if they get found out. My family members have experience with a number of well known chains, and all do the same things. Like synchronised swimming, the surface is professional and serene, while underneath everything is thrashing around to keep that head above water. Would I trust an estate agent to give me good honest advice? No.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Sorry but Amazon has not ever made a profit the shareholders are happy to wait for dividends whilst the share price increases at a good rate every year they just invest all the money back into the company

 

[MikeJ]

Amazon made a profit of £513 million in the first quarter of this year.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36163479

 

[MikeJ]

I know that's off topic, but he started it

 

[profitxchange]

Have moved a lot in my lifetime. Always use EA's. choose on basis of individual, resources, negotiating capability and job stability. I always want on person to deal with my sale from end to end. Last EA negotiated the whole chain's prices up so I could buy my next house. Problem area can be the legal beagles so EA needs to be able to handle them as well.

 

[suitontherun]

And btw forgive me for asking but when oh when will the government regulate estate agents!?

It's absurd how regulated banking, insurance, pensions are and how little regulation applies to estate agents. Given the sector transacts huge amounts of money on our behalf its ridiculous that our only recourse, when things go wrong, tends to be to a 21 year old with too much gel in their hair. Sort it out PM May!

 

[BTON Agency]

And btw forgive me for asking but when oh when will the government regulate estate agents!?

They have to comply with Money Laundering, Data Protection, Estate agents act, Must be part of a redress scheme, must have PI, and are policed by NTSEAT, If they are letting properties they need to have a deposit protection scheme - ALL OF THIS ARE MUST HAVE MINIMUMS.

In other words they need to comply with a lot of regulations. What regulations would you like bought in?

If the criminal agents are not doing the above, they will also not take a Micky mouse course that identifies a terraced house from a detached one. All that does is drive up costs for the law abiding agents which in turn will past the costs onto you the public.

 

[suitontherun]

Ok.. ok.. let me re-phrase.. when will the govt introduce substantial regulation and protection for consumers. There needs to be a govt managed (locally or centrally) agency. Energy companies have considerable policing by OFGEM. Telcos have OFCOM. I could go on...
Data Protection applies to all businesses.. Money Laundering..yes, of course! HMRC also make sure you pay taxes due... All the MINIMUM protections you mention are just that pathetic minimum!

I worked in financial markets for many years.. the level of compliance and regulation is 100 times what estate agents face. As examples:

1.) Advertising and marketing must be accurate. If I was compensated for every false piece of marketing an estate agent sent me over the years I would a very wealthy man.

2.) Transactions are recorded property and managed properly. If a banker/investment management firm agrees a price with an customer that is it. Done and dusted. This is not the case with the sales and letting of (residential at least) property. Buyers of property are often gazumped. Do that on a banking trading floor and you will be done for market manipulation. Letting agents play all kinds of games.. pushing prime properties that arent even available to draw in customers.. pretending properties are "just about to be let" when they arent to drive 'a close'..

3.) Proper systems for complaints and redress. How many estate agents have proper complaints procedures and publish statistics on resolution of complaints and customer satisfaction.

4.) A respect for timeliness, deadlines. The financial services world, for its sins, tends to abide by time lines and deadlines. Estate agents run riot over any promises related to time. How many million stories of tenants chasing letting agents for boiler repairs or home sellers chasing estate agents for delivery of promises.

There just isnt any real punishment for the industry. Look at banks and PPI. Even brokers like ICAP who don't take risk but facilitate trades have been hit with big fines. How many of the large estate agencies have been systematically fined, for what I'm sure a lot of the forum users agree, are systematic failures of duty over the years?

Yes regulation and proper avenues for redress do imply cost but through modern technology doesn't have to be significant.

Ultimately, you can write off my call for more regulation and a proper ombudsman style govt agency but the proof is in the pudding. The estate agency business has an incredibly poor reputation (certainly here in England). There is a reason why the public are using simple websites now rather than full estate agents.. confidence is gone. I didn't create the reputation.