What are the real dangers

[PeteA]

What are the dangers of copying someones Terms and then using poetic licence?

It is not something I would do but I am aware it is common practise.

Pete

 

[autolycus]

The fact that they may not mean what you think they mean, and may therefore not give your business the level of protection you think they do?

 

[bwglaw]

It is theft of copyright and you will not know if the terms and conditions do go some way in protecting your business until it is challenged. In the end you may find you are paying more than you would if you had a set drafted to your requirements.

Lawyers are not touting for business but trying to make clients see sense in paying a far less amount to prevent a problem rather than pay far more to resolve a problem.

Prevention is better than cure?

 

[Antonia @limeone.com]

I do think that many people work on the principle that what they don't know won't hurt them. Lawyers tend to see only the people with problems so know that poor terms and conditions can ruin a business.

We acted recently for a client recently who had fallen out with a business whose terms were cut and pasted from a US site. This lost them a cool £10K PAYE and a further £35K on unfair dismissal as the contract bestowed employment rights on the contract worker who was our client.

The average lowest costs of sorting out problems is around 4 times the cost of the terms and conditions. I have never understood this sort of 'wisdom' but know, from looking at many sites that many decide to 'convert ' others' terms and conditions.

 

[PeteA]

I guess the answer for small businesses on a low budget is www.e-terms.co.uk

 

[bwglaw]

I guess the answer for small businesses on a low budget is www.e-terms.co.uk

Suggest you read:

http://www.e-terms.co.uk/about.php

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

The problem is even though court cases cost much more, Lawyers drafting these documents also costs a lot of money for businesses on small budgets. You have to admit the chances of being taken to court for whatever reason is pretty slim when you consider the percentages of Businesses being taken to court (obviously the chance is higher depending on what kind of market you enter, what branding you choose, what activites you participate in etc).

Of course it can happen and there is every chance it might but when you have a small budget and you have to fork out quite a bit of it for a document which probably wont come into use unless there is a special circumstance it just seems like a waste, speaking from the entrepreneurs point of view.

PS: Jonathan roughly how much would an average T&C for an E-commerce website cost to be professionally made by a Lawyer (in a very rough price range)?

 

[Antonia @limeone.com]

It is a good point you make, as I have long held the view that for most people legal stuff is a 'grudge' purchase. You only pay for it when absolutely necessary and the value might be years away when you find yourself in hot water and the contract comes into its own.

The question I raised earlier today is really looking at what customers want, not what lawyers want to sell them but what customers percieve as value for money.

Appreciate all and any views you have on this.

 

[bwglaw]

With the increasing existence of 'legal consultancies' they may be better served for the small business and the legal profession is changing the way legal services will be provided to consumers and businesses.

As a lawyer I find it totally unacceptable to 'sell' and only 'provide' what the client needs. Some law firms encourage some lawyers to become 'sales executives', which is fine to a certain extent but clients needs come first before profit.

I had a client earlier looking to instruct us to undertake some work but refused because I knew full well that the client wanted 'cut corners' which would cause him great difficulities later. I could have done what he wanted me to do, take the money and run! I know he will thank me later!

Jonathan

 

[Top Hat]

The problem is even though court cases cost much more, Lawyers drafting these documents also costs a lot of money for businesses on small budgets. You have to admit the chances of being taken to court for whatever reason is pretty slim when you consider the percentages of Businesses being taken to court (obviously the chance is higher depending on what kind of market you enter, what branding you choose, what activites you participate in etc).

Of course it can happen and there is every chance it might but when you have a small budget and you have to fork out quite a bit of it for a document which probably wont come into use unless there is a special circumstance it just seems like a waste, speaking from the entrepreneurs point of view.

PS: Jonathan roughly how much would an average T&C for an E-commerce website cost to be professionally made by a Lawyer (in a very rough price range)?

Actually its quite easy to find people who are copying you
http://www.copyscape.com/

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

Actually its quite easy to find people who are copying you
http://www.copyscape.com/

Yes but if you don't copy someones page then legal action will never be involved. If someone copies your website and you want to take them to court then you can pay for the legal documents and assistance, it's up to the person involved.

 

[Leon]

I had a client earlier looking to instruct us to undertake some work but refused because I knew full well that the client wanted 'cut corners' which would cause him great difficulities later. I could have done what he wanted me to do, take the money and run! I know he will thank me later!

correct me if I am wrong, but if a lawyer cut corners then that wouldn't be proper legal representation whether they were asked to or not. If a lawyer is allowed to pick and choose according to what the client wants then that opens up a huge grey area of legal responsibility. At present if negligent representation leads to damage there is a remedy, this would surely muddy it? Totaly applaud your stand.

just my oppinion

 

[Antonia @limeone.com]

Clients in the course of requesting advice may not understand the implications of their requests. If cutting corners is their aim most lawyers will not act under those restrictions and ask the client to go elsewhere. There is a legal difference though in cutting corners and being negligent.

 

[bwglaw]

Completely agree with Antonia. One client asked me to do a one-page simple agreement....but an agreement is never simple for anyone and indeed for the kind of agreement they need to reduce any risk and exposure of litigation.

Lawyers should manage client's expectations and put needs first even if cost may be a deciding factor, at least they have been advised. There is a very thin line between cutting corners and being negligent, especially if the lawyer is aware of the risks.