We're out - what does it mean to you?

[threenine]

This is what we should be discussing how can we best spend the massive additional

uuhm!! It's going to be another 2-3 years at least before there is any additional!

It's not like there is an instant pot of cash free tomorrow. that supposed additional £350m a week is only going to be free a good while away now. We'll have plenty of time to think about how we're going to spend it.

 

[bharris]

Right. Any financial problems that result from the referendum result are because of politicians not taking control. Absolutely nothing to do with the result itself. Course not.

Does it not occur to you that those politicians fighting (and lying) for Brexit have a responsibility now to act? Which they are not doing.

Everyone has a responsibility, in particular our elected representatives regardless of party. They all work for the good of the people who elected them. That in my book doesn't mean resign because the people disagree with you. Everyone in a position of power should be working together for the good of the country. We have a great opportunity which if we carry one bickering and squabbling like playground children the opportunity will pass. Unfortunately our PM hit the self destruct button. He needed to create calm and organise a plan of action. NOT run and hide in fact no statement would have been better. We are no left no leadership in government, a comedy Labour party who seem to have chucked all of themselves off a cliff and a vindictive personal agenda ridden SNP leader. Perhaps they are all now looking for alternative carrier paths now the EU gravy-boat option has been turned off. Unfortunately the pro Brexit politicians have no remit to start planning for the future.

It's not like there is an instant pot of cash free tomorrow. that supposed additional £350m a week is only going to be free a good while away now. We'll have plenty of time to think about how we're going to spend it.

The sooner we plan the sooner people calm down and normality will be restored. Meanwhile fortunes will be made by banks on the exchange rates and people who import will suffer.

Like i said i am disappointed with both Brexit camps, the media and shocked by the public reaction.

 

[japancool]

Right. Any financial problems that result from the referendum result are because of politicians not taking control. Absolutely nothing to do with the result itself. Course not.

Does it not occur to you that those politicians fighting (and lying) for Brexit have a responsibility now to act? Which they are not doing.

I certainly agree that the politicians have a responsibility now to get the best deal for Britain, But I do think that Cameron isn't the right person to do that, so it makes sense now to pick the right people to do it - which they should have done before the result, but it's too late for that now.

But one thing I do think is that British business and the economy is more resilient than we sometimes give ourselves credit for. We'll find a way to cope and carry on whatever the final outcome - it's not like we're not used to coping with unfavourable circumstances and legislation.

Perhaps the Consumer Contracts Regulations will be repealed and replaced with something more equitable!

 

[japancool]

I think the time has never been more appropriate for this.

 

[threenine]

That in my book doesn't mean resign because the people disagree with you. Everyone in a position of power should be working together for the good of the country.

Firstly, I think people should realise, it's just a job, and like any other job, if you don't like what you're doing or you've been asked to do something you don't agree with, you can resign and go find a job you want to do. You cannot deny people that right. Especially in a democratic society.

Secondly, We all have to accept, the nation has voted for change, change is uncomfortable, change is uncertain and there is no direct route to change.

There is going to be upheaval there is going to uncertainty. The nation voted for it, the nation got what it voted for.

 

[sm9ai]

Why are people mentioning £350 million, that has been proved to be a lie! I believe a more accurate figure, from the lse, is 30p per person per day.

Anyway, business wise, I import electronics, if the pound doesn't recover, electronic devices will go up in price.

 

[japancool]

Why are people mentioning £350 million, that has been proved to be a lie! I believe a more accurate figure, from the lse, is 30p per person per day.

Anyway, business wise, I import electronics, if the pound doesn't recover, electronic devices will go up in price.

I believe I gave the figure of £115 million a week earlier in the thread.

 

[Deleted member 226268]

.
Democracy is rapidly being taken over by Capitalism.
Only money will dictate who is in power, not the politicians.

.

 

[ShirleyM]

Right. Any financial problems that result from the referendum result are because of politicians not taking control. Absolutely nothing to do with the result itself. Course not.

Does it not occur to you that those politicians fighting (and lying) for Brexit have a responsibility now to act? Which they are not doing.

It amazes me how any country NOT in the EU manages to survive and do very well. We could not only survive, but do better than be dragged down by the EU. We want democracy, we want sovereignty, we want to make our own laws. We want self government, and we would have to try damn hard to do a worse job than the EU.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

My main gripe about Cameron and the Joker is that they organised this vote and were so sure they would win by using and restricting government facts to the other side .

Every company in the UK that has dealings within the EU has already made plans on exactly how it would effect them and what measures they would take with either result

Why has Cameron not made the government departments have plan out so that it started today with whet the plans so far were and a expected timetable rather than just stating "Im Out" good luck

And the Joker comes out of hiding and states you idiots have buggered the country but I will do my best when the world crashes down on you

History was yesterday lets move on making the country even greater than it is and kill the negativity about the unknown, its seldom as bad as we first imagined

 

[threenine]

country even greater

Over the top you go!

What is this "Great" ? How is this "Great" different to what I view how "Great" Britain is today?

On the whole that lets make Britain great is an empty sound bite

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Over the top you go!

What is this "Great" ? How is this "Great" different to what I view how "Great" Britain is today?

On the whole that lets make Britain great is an empty sound bite

"Great" Britain stems from historic times and simply denotes the difference from Little Britain which is the French region of Brittany. Even earlier Little Britain was Ireland.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

There is always someone to slag off the country list like the Joker's in No 10 & 11

How would you improve things give more power to a un-elected group of 29 people, join the federal state where there is no reason to have a UK government, what future do you see?

 

[threenine]

Pretty much the same as the present. A global society striving to put aside nationalistic ideals. Striving for the betterment of humanity.

 

[Pish_Pash]

It amazes me how any country NOT in the EU manages to survive and do very well.

I really liked Nigel Lawson's soundbite (to a remain supporter)....

"It may come as a shock to you, but most of the world is not in the European Union, and most of these countries are doing better than most of the EU."

 

[RBS]

So we voted out. What effect will that have on you?

I`m in big trouble - because I make profit here in UK in GBP but invest it abroad in EUR. When it was 1.30 I waited for REMAIN result and expected to bounce back to about 1.40. But exchange rate has dropped badly - I`m not prepared to exchange as this rate. I`m now sitting on stack of UK currency and don`t know what to do with it.

 

[Pish_Pash]

I`m in big trouble - because I make profit here in UK in GBP but invest it abroad in EUR. When it was 1.30 I waited for REMAIN result and expected to bounce back to about 1.40. But exchange rate has dropped badly - I`m not prepared to exchange as this rate. I`m now sitting on stack of UK currency and don`t know what to do with it.

As it goes, I've about €55,000 sitting in a euro account (from Amazon EU marketplace payments) that I've been waiting to exchange to Sterling for some time (like 18 months!)...the rate went heavily against me so I toughed it out - infact 0.81 is my 'status quo' point ...as I type, EURGBP is trading at about .835 - I'm being greedy now, but I'll only pull the trigger at 0.85 or higher (it may not get there for a while yet, but I'm now confident it will)

 

[Swisaw]

We have democratically inflicted serious damage to ourself. EU becomes almost a no go zone for us.

 

[Carl "Excel-Expert" Nixon]

Which part of Wales are you living in?
A few years ago, millions of pounds, (Euros?) of EU money was spent resurfacing roads in Mid Powys, after a particularity hard winter. 8 Million IIRC. They'd be dirt tracks by now, without that money.
Add that to the Farm Subsidies, which I know basically fall into a black hole, but some leaks out to the wiser community.
The councils are bankrupt because of pure bad management and corruption.
Believe me, I'm related to a couple of County Councillors (and civil servants). The incompetence and pure criminality would be astounding, if it it wasn't for the fact that I know it's perfectly normal.
This area is crying out for better roads, and more trading estates, has been for years.
Some work has been done, not nearly enough.
That EU money isn't going to be replaced with money from another source, there's no knight in shining armour coming to sort the place out, just a bunch of crooks, laughing their heads off.

I'm in Tonypandy. Here we see EU spending on road widenings, upgrading buildings to offices (mostly empty), trading estates and a few other bits and pieces. Most people here travel to Cardiff to work and pass countless empty units etc on their commutes.

Kind of missing my point there. We are talking about perceived values, not real values - two very different things.

People do not care about roads, it is simply something that they dont have a passion about (passion is the important part of my theory). The fact that the council cant afford it and had to go to the EU does not even register with most users of the road. BTW The EU is just as incompetent when it comes to money management as the councils - probably even worse. When I see a big EU project I see two rounds of squandered money (sometimes 3 if the Welsh government is involved)

People dont care about the grants that farmers get either (unless they are in the farming sector). They dont physically see the money being spent, how it is spent and strongly suspect it goes to rich land owners (even if it is not true). All most people see of farms around here is cows or sheeps in a field. People cant perceive a value there.

What we end up with things is visible EU projects that no one is passionate about or people perceive as being low value. No one is going to go protesting because there isnt a trading estate at location X, they are not going to protest over the condition of a road or that a road is to narrow. They are not going to protest that the local farmer hasnt got a new tractor.

Start closing schools, libraries and vital services and people will get really passionate really quickly because they have a perceived and often personal value associated with those things.

All of that is just pure theory, but I have been doing a bit of an experiment with the Mrs. When talking with people around town we ask "What does the EU do for you personally" or "Have you benefited directly from the EU". It stumped almost everyone we asked. Some could remember seeing EU flags on things like restored halls, theatres and parks but that was it. Not scientific I know but I think it reflects how most people see EU projects.

Again this is perceived value v's real value.

 

[Carl "Excel-Expert" Nixon]

We have democratically inflicted serious damage to ourself. EU becomes almost a no go zone for us.

Why? Is Trump building a wall?

Care to mention any particular country who has expressed even the slightest interest in shutting down trade with us?

 

[Carl "Excel-Expert" Nixon]

I really liked Nigel Lawson's soundbite (to a remain supporter)....

"It may come as a shock to you, but most of the world is not in the European Union, and most of these countries are doing better than most of the EU."

I missed that one, but it does sum it up nicely.

Only 8% of the worlds population or 14% of the worlds countries are inside the EU. We have perfectly free trade with them which is fantastic. On the flip side 92% of the worlds population / 86% of the worlds countries are outside of the EU and we can only trade with via treaties designed by a committee of 28 countries who all have their own individual needs and interests to take care of.

I would rather have slightly limited access to the 14% of the worlds countries and complete access to the other 86% than the other way around.

 

[mhall]

It's all nonsense really, if what we sell is good enough, people will want to buy it. If they want us to buy things, they will make it easy for us to pay for them. Pretty basic really.

The government lost the referendum on local policies. I think it is pretty much accepted that immigrants generate more income than they are given in so called benefits. They are an asset to the country. The trouble was, the surplus they created has never been given to the areas who had them - it was all kept in London (who all, surprise surprise, voted to Remain).

If the government had said to the North and Midlands "you are getting an awful lot of immigrants, let us help you support them to generate wealth" the areas would have seen the benefits of immigration and the vote might have been different. Instead, pet projects in London had the money. It is shocking to see how many M.P.s are so obviously out of touch with the people who voted for them. Cameron should have taken a lofty stance of "I'd rather we stay in but I will but out and do as the electorate tell me, either way I will support the decision". Osbourne should never have tried to blackmail the electorate. As I said, the Remain camp lost on local policies, not Europe.

But, we are where we are, it's not the end of the world. It's going to be a messy divorce and the other half is going to get nasty, as in many divorces. Put your high heels and lippy on and face the future with a brave face.

 

[MikeJ]

I missed that one, but it does sum it up nicely.

Only 8% of the worlds population or 14% of the worlds countries are inside the EU. We have perfectly free trade with them which is fantastic. On the flip side 92% of the worlds population / 86% of the worlds countries are outside of the EU and we can only trade with via treaties designed by a committee of 28 countries who all have their own individual needs and interests to take care of.

I would rather have slightly limited access to the 14% of the worlds countries and complete access to the other 86% than the other way around.

Except the 8%/14% are the ones on our doorstep, and the 86%/92% are much further away, quite often much poorer and have existing trading arrangements that they're probably quite happy with.

 

[Paul Norman]

Interestingly, I was talking to a largish building company this morning.

Their forward order book has just halved. I know we are not allowed to speak of these things, and I know that it is early days, but for that company, mass layoff of staff is going to happen right now. In an area of high unemployment.

Of course, we still don't know. But I do know this. We have to start caring.

A business person I am aware of said 'If the price of leaving the EU is a few years recession I would gladly pay it'. That, to me, is a problem as an attitude, and shows a boss with no heart. Because he won't pay the price. The work force will.

 

[Carl "Excel-Expert" Nixon]

Except the 8%/14% are the ones on our doorstep, and the 86%/92% are much further away, quite often much poorer and have existing trading arrangements that they're probably quite happy with.

For physical goods and services Europe is dead handy and an asset, but as of yet there is nothing to indicate there will be additional trade barriers in a post Brexit world. The UK doesnt want barriers, EU countries dont want barriers, businesses dont want barriers and the people don't want barriers. So who is going to put up unwanted barriers that harm both sides of the equation?

We export services all around the world and as we move more and more in to the digital realm unrestricted access to the rest of the world is going to only get more and more important. And with the rest of the world we have trade deals designed by committee, often with committee members that dont share our interests (they will be after a certain market, we will be after another) so we end up deals that are not tailored to us - they are a one size fits all for 28 countries. That can not be good for any of the nations involved as each does not get what it fully wants.

6 Out of the top 10 economies in the world are outside the EU (US, China, Japan, Brazil, Russia, India) - we can not fully tap those markets if we are operating under a one size fits all deal. Then we have countries like Canada, Australia, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Taiwan, Korea, Hong Kong, South Africa and so on that there is more potential in.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Except the 8%/14% are the ones on our doorstep, and the 86%/92% are much further away, quite often much poorer and have existing trading arrangements that they're probably quite happy with.

This came up in a public debate I went to. The big problem with that scenario is that many of those countries are not very good at paying for their imports. The big hope that the UKIP speaker mentioned was Ethiopia. Swapping trade with the EU for trade with poor countries does not look like a good deal to me.

 

[Carl "Excel-Expert" Nixon]

Interestingly, I was talking to a largish building company this morning.

Their forward order book has just halved. I know we are not allowed to speak of these things, and I know that it is early days, but for that company, mass layoff of staff is going to happen right now. In an area of high unemployment.

Of course, we still don't know. But I do know this. We have to start caring.

A business person I am aware of said 'If the price of leaving the EU is a few years recession I would gladly pay it'. That, to me, is a problem as an attitude, and shows a boss with no heart. Because he won't pay the price. The work force will.

Do you think orders are being cancelled simply because of a Brexit vote or because of the uncertainty of what happens next while the process and direction is thrashed out.

I remember similar things happen when the coalition government came in. For a good few weeks people didnt know what it meant for them and lost confidence for a few weeks. A couple of building projects in Cardiff froze and later unfroze because of that.

 

[Paul Norman]

Do you think orders are being cancelled simply because of a Brexit vote or because of the uncertainty of what happens next while the process and direction is thrashed out.

I remember similar things happen when the coalition government came in. For a good few weeks people didnt know what it meant for them and lost confidence for a few weeks. A couple of building projects in Cardiff froze and later unfroze because of that.

The reason given is a bit of both. My opinion (see caveats elsewhere) is that it is mostly an on hold decision whilst the uncertainty works through. The large building projects involved are, essentially, investment based ventures, and in the short term (myself included) better short term returns with lower risk are available elsewhere. Thus, for a short term, myself, and, clearly, other business people are not taking on new projects in the UK. This will change, either into a permanent staying away, or a return. Which of those will not depend on the referendum question, which is no longer a question, but on the economic performance of the UK, and on the perceived risk factors.

 

[Carl "Excel-Expert" Nixon]

Putting things on hold while the dust settles and decisions are made is something we see elsewhere (elections etc), so I'm fairly convinced there is a lot of that going on. There will of course be some on hold simply because money is on the wrong side of the exchange rates.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

We have democratically inflicted serious damage to ourself. EU becomes almost a no go zone for us.

What are you moaning about now, you have told us the world will end companies going bankrupt left right and center, people leaving the UK in droves, Prime minister moving house

This should be great news for your removals company moving bankrupt office equipment to stores moving the PM into his new house helping people move to new places, your roads will be clear of all traffic as no nasty lorries around doing import and export

Your not a friend of the Joker at No11 are you

 

[threenine]

Your not a friend of the Joker at No11 are you

I just subscribed you up to the Mail on Sunday. Do you want the Daily Mail too?

 

[MartCactus]

I don't get those calling the EU undemocratic. The "unelected" there are chosen by our elected governments. Our elected governments have repeatedly rejected giving more power to the European Parliament (which is elected). Why? Because its less power for our elected national governments of course.

In the UK our democracy is pretty flawed - as you learn at law school, we're ruled by "The Queen in Parliament". Well the Queen isn't elected, and neither is the upper chamber of Parliament. We're hardly a shining beacon of democracy to the EU.

Personally I think its time to have Boris as PM, and Farage as Deputy. They've told us how great life outside the EU will be - how the NHS will be awash with money, we'll all be rich and I won't have to endure nasty foreign people with their foreign languages on our streets, and how all the talk of us losing access to the free market, or having a recession were scare mongering. So lets let Boris and Farage show us how great life under them will be. Then perhaps 3 months later, when the unmitigated disaster of seeing these clowns in charge, we can have a general election, get a proper government that can govern, and we can all get back to work.

 

[MartCactus]

For physical goods and services Europe is dead handy and an asset, but as of yet there is nothing to indicate there will be additional trade barriers in a post Brexit world. The UK doesnt want barriers, EU countries dont want barriers, businesses dont want barriers and the people don't want barriers. So who is going to put up unwanted barriers that harm both sides of the equation?

The whole concept of the single market is based on barriers to those who are not part of it. If the EU allowed countries like China (who have much lower labour costs because they don't provide 2 weeks free holiday, maternity leave, etc) to access the market they'd be competing unfairly, and hence tariffs are imposed. You will not get access to the EU free market without agreeing to its rules. You may well argue that we can make up for this by trading with non-EU countries or just taking the tariffs on the chin, and that may be true, but its incorrect to say no one wants trade barriers - they are the price you pay for not signing up, and without them EU producers would be competing with their hands tied behind their backs - providing social benefits that importers aren't subject to.

I think many who voted Leave were misled. They were told that it was like this - we're members of a golf club but we don't like the green fees or the dress code. They were told that by leaving we'll still be able to play - for free - and they'll let us wear what we like. It was made clear before, and since the referendum that this was not the case by the EU, but some chose to ignore that. And by the way, I'm not saying all Leavers were misled, some put immigration etc before economics, which is their right.

 

[sirearl]

Personally, I really don't buy all that Sovereignty and Democracy garbage. What I do buy, is that it Nations i.e. People, working together make change happen.

One thing I have learned as a entrepreneur , self employed , business owner , what ever you call it these days. Is that ensuring you have strategic partnerships and the ability to work within larger environments is essential to survival. 100% of relationships are give and take.

Establishing any businesses is a lonely existence. If you walk away from a deal or partnership it's best to have some real plan to move forward. As far as I can tell we don't have a plan, we've had a lot of hot air from both sides. Dreams, aspirations and conjecture but very little concrete plans.

I have stated before, I never really bought the arguments from both sides, as both had drawbacks, but overall I preferred remaining within EU, although flawed, it was continuing to evolve. I do believe that for the future or our planet the Human race needs to evolve away from the nationalistic ideals and patriotic thinking, and we need to work together as one Universal entity.

The way I see, having total control over a little island off the shores of larger continent, on a little blue ball in the vast darkness of space, is fundamentally pointless.

What's the next step now do we leave the United Nations, the G8 etc, because we believe those ideals are also pointless. We can't even work together as nations to resolve the fundamental planetary survival.

I still believe the whole Leave campaign was about taking a Britain and international thinking back a 100 years! Despite my beliefs I am happy to be proved wrong and for the benefit of human race in general I hope that I am.

There are 195 countries in the world,I can't see a cartel of 28 helping your aims.

 

[threenine]

There are 195 countries in the world,I can't see a cartel of 28 helping your aims.

Wow did you add that up all by yourself, just to try come up with a clever quip!

Well done. But seriously, 28 is still far better than zero.

 

[sirearl]

Wow did you add that up all by yourself, just to try come up with a clever quip!

Well done. But seriously, 28 is still far better than zero.

Being a smartie pants don't become one.

http://capx.co/how-the-eu-starves-africa-into-submission/

deja vu.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scramble_for_Africa

Human nature is still in the stone age it would seem.

 

[bharris]

During a late breakfast this morning i watched some of the EU parliament speeches. Had to turn it off during Jean-Claude Juncker as it wasn't good for my health. The arrogance of the man it was just like watching Sepp Blatter. Glad and proud to have ended our membership of such an greed ridden evil organisation. Its just a shame corporations make all the decisions so i dough't much will change.

 

[threenine]

During a late breakfast this morning i watched some of the EU parliament speeches. Had to turn it off during Jean-Claude Juncker as it wasn't good for my health. The arrogance of the man it was just like watching Sepp Blatter. Glad and proud to have ended our membership of such an greed ridden evil organisation. Its just a shame corporations make all the decisions so i dough't much will change.

I had the same reaction when I watched that worm farage speak yesterday. If put me off my croissant and latte!