Waterstones - Avoid

If you would like to order a book DO NOT use WATERSTONES.

Use amazon instead you will get what you ordered. Order from WATERSTONES and you will be waiting around for let me check 10 days.. you will then think to yourself hold on wheres my book...

You then pick up the phone and phone these monkeys to be told that they wont be getting the book in stock.

TIP OF THE DAY. Order from Amazon top class service.
 

Montaigne

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Some companies have crazy ordering procedures.

I tried to pre-order a game at Game. They wanted me to pay them £3 just to be able to pre-order it, the fee was non refundable and they couldn't guarantee that they would be sent enough stock to actually fulfil all their pre-order orders. Therefore it could cost me £3 to order something they couldn't promise they could deliver :).

I also ordered on Amazon for a rate cheaper than the full price in Game and with no booking fee.
 
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OP, exactly how many books have you ordered from amazon and waterstones? just wondering if one book order is a valid sample size.

I've sold to waterstones, they are slow payers, particularly on SoR but sometimes it was possible just to walk in and speak to a buyer, often walking out with a decent order within a few minutes.

There is something about browsing in a bookshop that internet just can't compete imo.
 
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C

Consistency

I have purchased loads and loads of books and yes, I rate Amazon. Waterstones, I have had no problems with - instore and on line. The book depository are good also.

Have ordered once from WH Smith, not a good experience. Paid for the book up front and the book never came, was then told it was out of print but got the money refunded. I do not think though that one experience is enough to judge them on.

I think Book depository will become quite a rival to Amazon in years to come.
 
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D

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I ordered my son's piano keyboard book online from WH Smith for collection from a local store. Amazon stated 10 day delivery so I tried WH Smith, who quoted delivery 3-5 working days from despatch to the store which would have been fine for the following week's lesson. However unlike Amazon even if it's in stock they don't despatch immediately. By the 4th working day it had not even been despatched to the local store so I cancelled the order and emailed them - they basically told me to refer to their T&Cs and really didn't seem to care less. I had to drive in to the city centre to the nearest music store to buy the book. I will never order from them again because they're customer service was apalling.
 
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Amazon = demise of waterstones, sad but true.

It was only a few years ago that the Waterstones website just redirected you to Amazon and they didn't even sale online.

Why not use and support your local bookshop. It'll avoid all these long delivery times you seem to be having, and if they don't have what you want it'll be in tomorrow, ok you will have to walk there again but less effort and stress than many seem to be having ordering online.
 
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cjd

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    You'd have to be mad not to use Amazon to buy a book - or pretty much anything - that you already know you want. I've used them for hundreds of purchases and only been let down once - even then i got an immediate refund.

    They're the online model to copy, they have everything; their shopping cart is fantastic, prices are good and postage free if you don't need it tomorrow. It's completely safe and hassle free.

    I have no idea how Waterstones can survive it, they're doing some interesting things with book signings and events that work well but I can't see that paying the rent. I think if I was them I'd be backing into publishing and ebook content.
     
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    Montaigne

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    I have no idea how Waterstones can survive it, they're doing some interesting things with book signings and events that work well but I can't see that paying the rent. I think if I was them I'd be backing into publishing and ebook content.

    They survive because there's no comparison to wandering a bookstore in the online world. It's the same reason book publishing won't be wiped out by e-books.
     
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    I can't fathom why in this day and age such companies would be so incompetetant.

    Take Waterstones - couple of years back I was at Uni - and when the reading lists came out there was a mad rush for bucks - as in students queuing up outside Waterstones at 6am. It was next to the entrance of the Uni....

    Waterstones had prior access to the reading list but never ordered the enough books in. Always fell short. So people had to miss out because they got up late, then order from Amazon.
     
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    Jeff FV

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    I timely thread given my current experience!

    Last week (on Sunday!) I received a box from Amazon, containing a number of things I'd ordered. However, one item wasn't in the box, although the packing list said it was. A quick email to Amazon and I got the following response:

    Thank you for contacting Amazon.co.uk.

    I’m sorry to hear about the problem you’ve had with your "XXXXXX".I've placed a new order #203-XXXXX for the same item and it’ll be dispatched as soon as possible to the same address.

    about an hour later (still on Sunday) No problem, I thought, mistakes happen (I buy quite a lot from Amazon and its rare that anything ever goes wrong). However, today ( a week later) I still hadn't received the missing item and logged on to Amazon to track my order. It was now saying it wouldn't be dispacthed before the 25th December (its a gift) so I wasn't best pleased - I think they should have told me last week - when I first got in touch with them - that I wouldn't get the item by Christmas. I've cancelled the order, found the same item on Waterstones (for 26p cheaper, too!) and it ordered it from them. Lets hope they deliver!

    Jeff
     
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    Deleted member 59730

    Use amazon instead you will get what you ordered. Order from WATERSTONES and you will be waiting around for let me check 10 days.. you will then think to yourself hold on wheres my book...

    You then pick up the phone and phone these monkeys to be told that they wont be getting the book in stock.

    I have never had a problem ordering books from Waterstones. The staff even tell me at the time of ordering where the book is and how long it will take.

    Amazon, on the other hand, will not tell you when your book order, complete with ISBN number, will be substituted for a cheap US book club edition with a different ISBN.

    I have 23 books in print. Amazon will list some as unavailable for 2 - 6 weeks when I know their wholesaler has them in stock on 24 delivery.
     
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    mhall

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    You'd have to be mad not to use Amazon to buy a book - or pretty much anything - that you already know you want. I've used them for hundreds of purchases and only been let down once - even then i got an immediate refund.
    .

    Well, you have pretty much alienated a massive section of your potential customer base. If you don't support your potential customers, they won't support you. No wonder this country is in a mess
     
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    UKSBD

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    You'd have to be mad not to use Amazon to buy a book - or pretty much anything - that you already know you want. I've used them for hundreds of purchases and only been let down once - even then i got an immediate refund.

    I would have agreed up untill recently, whenever I bought from Amazon I would buy multiple items to save on delivery costs.

    Nowadays though it all seems to be separate merchants so there's little point in buying multiple items and it's lost some of the trust value for me.

    I still buy from there, but try to buy from Amazon itself, something that appears to be getting trickier and trickier.
     
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    PromoAde

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    They survive because there's no comparison to wandering a bookstore in the online world. It's the same reason book publishing won't be wiped out by e-books.

    There is no comparison, agreed. But I find this experience is mostly enjoyable in older independent bookshops. However, there's nothing particularity amazing about wandering around a chain book store. Books are a commodity item, and as with most commodities, the lowest priced supplier (Amazon usually) wins. As sad as it is, bookstores and publishers will eventually diminish. Especially because of ebooks, which authors can easily self publish on via the Kindle and other method - bypassing the publisher completely.
     
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    cjd

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    Well, you have pretty much alienated a massive section of your potential customer base. If you don't support your potential customers, they won't support you. No wonder this country is in a mess

    I don't follow this, are you saying that i have to buy from Waterstones otherwise they won't buy from me?
     
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    mhall

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    I don't follow this, are you saying that i have to buy from Waterstones otherwise they won't buy from me?

    No, quite the opposite. If my suppliers or their agents of any service, shop fitting, telephones, tills etc, buy any of the products I sell without at least giving me the chance to serve them, I don't do business with them again. If you don't support the customers you are selling to why should they buy from you?

    We recently gave a shopfitter £7,000 worth of work. On the day he was due to start the work, his wife came in to the shop and liked a product we were selling for £65 but said she would buy from Boundary Mills as it was £8 cheaper. My Hubby sacked the shopfitter on the spot who was amazed that we were insulted. He really couldn't understand "all the fuss". All attempts by hubby to explain that he was insulted that we were fine to take £7k off but not good enough to buy from washed over him completely.

    Most annoying of all was that I was about to give her staff discount which meant she would have saved anyway !

    I know that almost all of our suppliers will be coming to me for their Christmas presents, especially the men. They know I will look after them and it helps the whole relationship.
     
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    cjd

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    No, quite the opposite.

    Nope, you've completely lost me I'm afraid.

    We recently gave a shopfitter £7,000 worth of work. On the day he was due to start the work, his wife came in to the shop and liked a product we were selling for £65 but said she would buy from Boundary Mills as it was £8 cheaper. My Hubby sacked the shopfitter on the spot who was amazed that we were insulted. He really couldn't understand "all the fuss". All attempts by hubby to explain that he was insulted that we were fine to take £7k off but not good enough to buy from washed over him completely.

    This is completely barking.....in so many ways and on all parties (excepting the poor shopfitter who was a completely innocent party to all this hysterical nonsense.)

    It's not about 'supporting' businesses; businesses can't be supported, they have to stand on their own two feet and supply a service or product at a price that the customer wants or they're dead.

    The high street in my town is dying, it's dying only because the tiny shops in it are utterly useless at what they do - there's a 'bakers' that does't bake and a butchers that can't tell you where it's meat comes from. Not surprisingly 99 out of 100 people here walk past them both and get their generic bread and meat from the Tesco because it's cheaper. But everyone that I know is desperate to have a great butcher and a great baker and would pay a big premium for it.

    A couple of years ago a new guy bought the dying greengrocer's shop and worked his socks off at it, it's a fabulous place now and pretty much everyone uses it even though sometimes it seems to cost a huge amount.

    You'd think the other two would cotton on, but no, they sit in empty shops and complain about not being 'supported.'

    Sorry, but bad businesses annoy the hell out me. When I'm king I'm going to close the lot of 'em.
     
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    td2011

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    I understand your point above though I do think it's made almost impossible for small independents to do business. Where I'm living a tesco store was opposed by 93% of local people in the area. The campaign went on for over two years yet the store was still opened regardless. It wasn't needed and there are plenty of independent traders on the high street who are very good at what they do.
     
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    Deleted member 59730

    No, quite the opposite. If my suppliers or their agents of any service, shop fitting, telephones, tills etc, buy any of the products I sell without at least giving me the chance to serve them, I don't do business with them again. If you don't support the customers you are selling to why should they buy from you?

    While it was a long time ago I still remember when a car parts supplier bought some new Ford vans to make his 3-4 times a day deliveries to the BMC factory in Cowley. Didn't last more than half a day.
     
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    Montaigne

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    We recently gave a shopfitter £7,000 worth of work. On the day he was due to start the work, his wife came in to the shop and liked a product we were selling for £65 but said she would buy from Boundary Mills as it was £8 cheaper. My Hubby sacked the shopfitter on the spot who was amazed that we were insulted. He really couldn't understand "all the fuss". All attempts by hubby to explain that he was insulted that we were fine to take £7k off but not good enough to buy from washed over him completely.

    Yup, that's just crazy.
     
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    mhall

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    Yup, that's just crazy.

    Not crazy at all, we found another shopfitter in three days who has now had five seperate jobs from us and yes, he buys from us. Ironically he had bought from us before we hired him as well.

    The original shopfitter got a job with someone else about 12 months later and closed his business, moaning that people didn't support him and that business was crap. I don't feel the slightest tinge of guilt - he was acting very much like the butcher in your example.

    What goes around comes around.
     
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    I know that almost all of our suppliers will be coming to me for their Christmas presents, especially the men. They know I will look after them and it helps the whole relationship.

    so if they don't come to you for Christmas presents they're getting sacked?

    err...erm...does that count for employees too? because that would be a worry

    so if i sold you one of my shops i'd have to buy christmas presents from it? no thanks.
     
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    mhall

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    so if they don't come to you for Christmas presents they're getting sacked?

    err...erm...does that count for employees too? because that would be a worry

    so if i sold you one of my shops i'd have to buy christmas presents from it? no thanks.

    Your choice, I would hope you would want to. But if you didn't, don't expect any more business off me. This is nothing new. In the good old days everybody bought off each other, or at least gave each other the chance to do so and its no different to the "totally locally" or "magic £10" approach.
     
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    Montaigne

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    Not crazy at all, we found another shopfitter in three days who has now had five seperate jobs from us and yes, he buys from us. Ironically he had bought from us before we hired him as well.

    The original shopfitter got a job with someone else about 12 months later and closed his business, moaning that people didn't support him and that business was crap. I don't feel the slightest tinge of guilt - he was acting very much like the butcher in your example.

    What goes around comes around.

    No, I'm not saying the result of your decision was crazy; I'm saying your actual decision is hands down nuts and no wonder the shopfitter was pissed; he'd have every right to be.

    Such a decision is not only completely irrational, from a business perspective at the very best I would consider it bad form and at the worst dishonest.

    I'm not saying these things to be insulting; it's just that I cannot fathom why you would behave in that manner to a shopfitter who has accepted a contract from you in good faith and on the day he's due to start work you kick him in to touch because his wife decided not to buy something from your shop!

    Does every customer to your shop insist that before they buy something from you, you most go to their shop and also buy something from them?
     
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    cjd

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    Your choice, I would hope you would want to. But if you didn't, don't expect any more business off me. This is nothing new. In the good old days everybody bought off each other, or at least gave each other the chance to do so and its no different to the "totally locally" or "magic £10" approach.

    This is total tosh. People bought off each other in 'the old days' because they had too. These days we have choice. Sane people go where they get the best service and price and 99 times out of 100 that isn't on the High Street.

    You're fighting a rising tide and you're going to drown.
     
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    mhall

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    This is total tosh. People bought off each other in 'the old days' because they had too. These days we have choice. Sane people go where they get the best service and price and 99 times out of 100 that isn't on the High Street.

    You're fighting a rising tide and you're going to drown.

    Sane people buy from people who will be around next year and the year after that. Short term business chase the fast buck and are obsessed with price and the internet. We won't drown because we care about our customers and have ethics and morals when it comes to suppliers.

    The internet will destroy all the little boys, as Amazon are already doing, but, like all things computer based, it will do it far quicker than Tesco destroyed the High Street. You only have to look at the takeover of ebay by companies to see how fast it can happen, and now ebay itself is being taken over by companies importing from Hong Kong and China.

    Feel free to make your fast buck on the internet, you will be undercut very shortly and then you will be spouting about what wonderful service you offer and bemoaning all the big boys. It's a global market place but don't kid yourself that you will beat the big boys.

    As we will never be your customers, you will not be around to see it. We are not going to agree, we obviously believe in different business models but I would far rather be on the High Street than on the internet. You have five, possibly ten years max to make your dosh and move on. The High Street is resilient and will survive, despite the rubbish the spotty nosed twenty year old graduates write in the papers. Bloodied and bruised and in a new form perhaps, but we will be here.
     
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    This is total tosh. People bought off each other in 'the old days' because they had too. These days we have choice. Sane people go where they get the best service and price and 99 times out of 100 that isn't on the High Street.

    You're fighting a rising tide and you're going to drown.

    I could not agree more with this.

    Back to the original point in collusion with the above, if I want something and price is vital I will shop around and buy it from the 'cheapest and most recognised source' ie Amazon, Tesco or Waterstones.

    If I wanted something fast and price was not vital, I would get on the bus and go to my local Waterstones store and pick it up (or any other bookstore if W did not have it).

    Things can and do go wrong with distance selling as there are many, many links in the chain (unlike direct store purchase) and you can only judge a company's true efficiency in remote selling when things go wrong and how they handle it.

    IF it is a constant cycle of errors via a store/supplier then you, as a customer, have the freedom of choice in your supply chain to move...

    But to say I ain't buying off you coz you don't buy off those that I use is absolutely ridiculous in my book. But, that is your choice, illogical but your right.

    JMTC
     
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    I don't see why you can't do both i.e. run a shop on the high street and sell to locals and then sell to the world via the internet. If anything the internet should make your business more rather than less viable.

    These myths are fantastic. We get all the new internet retailers telling High Street retailers they "should be on the internet as well, you will die otherwise". Who do you think were the first independent retailers on the internet? It wasn't Frank Spencer in his bedroom (although now often it is), it was the B&M retailers already selling and using the internet to sell back in the late 90's when it was all new and sparkly.

    However, very many High Street retailers have seen a massive decline in internet sales over the past three to five years due to massive competition from the big boys and have ditched it (or not expand it further) to concentrate on where the real and sustainable money is for the independent retailer - the High Street.

    Once again High Street leading the way, internet following.

    Now don't go quoting Amazon, Play, Pixmania etc. I'm talking independent internet and independent High Street.

    So to summarise I would guess Bricks and Mortar have at least a five year head start out of this recession compared to internet retailers.
     
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    mhall

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    To go back to my original point as I am very aware that we have hijacked the thread. CJD said that he thought everybody would be mad not to buy pretty much everything off the internet. I was merely pointing out, in perhaps a clumsy way, that to say that on a public forum meant that he ran the risk of alienating some of his customer base. Let me explain:

    We use Voip in our shops. We have two systems - Skype and Swyxit. One we use purely for internal and the other for both internal and external. Personally I think one of them is next to useless and doesn't do what I want it to do. When we finally get round to changing I would do a search and investigate other options. If I came across CJDs company a simple search would bring up that he thinks everyone should buy everything on line. Now, as a B&M Retailer what, in the name of all thing holy, would make me want to use someone who has efectivly condemned by business model ? That was the point I was making. My shopfitter story was an extreme example but it is true and, I think, highlights the attitude of many of today's business who merely chase the money.

    I happen to be a great believer in Relationship building in business, we do it with our customers and we do it with our suppliers. Our customers know that we care about them and we care about our suppliers.

    I am not suggesting for one minute that cjd is a bad person and I wish him all the very best, his accounts show he has had a few years of reasonable growth. Ironically our argument has made me more likely to at least talk to him. All I was pointing out that was that a public forum is a dangerous place to be at times.

    Whilst I absolutey agree with Banned that the internet is heading for a massive fall as Amazon etc clean up all the little guys (many of them now have had no choice but to use Amazon as their main route to market), it does have it's uses. But we all know that something will be around in a couple of years to replace voip - Last night my 16 year old daughter found her Dads Palm Pilot and described it as "ancient" - that same product he used all the time just two years ago.
     
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    cjd

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    To go back to my original point ...... etc

    I think you're terribly confused and conflating all sorts of ideas. Let me try to sort out a few things.

    1. I have never said, nor do I believe, that everyone should buy things off the internet. I said that people will buy things from wherever they get the best service and price. That could be the internet or it could be the High Street. If it's a generic good that you can get anywhere though, the writing has been on the wall for 15 years now.

    2. I have never said that I wouldn't buy something from you. In fact I've said the opposite. I've said that if there was a good butcher or baker in my town I'd buy from them even if they're more expensive - as I do with the greengrocers. I don't, for the simple reason that they're rubbish at their business - like the vast majority of small shopkeepers in the UK. If you are great at what you do and in my High Street I'll gladly buy from you, be very grateful for you and tell all my friends. If you're crap, and most are, I won't, even if you think I should.

    3. My product, VoIP, can ONLY be bought using the internet. It couldn't exist without the internet, it was born from the internet. Good luck with finding it in a box on the High Street.

    4. If you are only buying stuff from people who buy from you I guess you have no TV, no electricity, no telephone, no internet, no water, no car, no education etc etc etc. That's a plainly daft argument which I assume you don't really mean.

    I am not suggesting for one minute that cjd is a bad person

    Well that's good to hear ;-)

    his accounts show he has had a few years of reasonable growth.

    Now that's a bit of an understatement isn't it? In 5 years we've grown organically from nothing to £2m+ turnover, have no debt, have been profitable from year one and employ 18 people. We're still growing at 5% per month during a recession and we've been judged the best small business provider in the UK for 3 years now.

    Ironically our argument has made me more likely to at least talk to him. All I was pointing out that was that a public forum is a dangerous place to be at times.

    You should choose us ONLY because we provide the best VoIP service in the UK at an honest price. We believe in relationships too, but we currently serve over 25,000 customers so it's not personal, it's done through good customer support and robust services and the fact that you can call us and talk to a real human being with a lot of knowledge and power to act on it.

    You'll see that I've been on this forum for 6 years now and made 12,000 posts - I don't find it dangerous at all, in fact the opposite, I'm here to say what I think - not say whatever it takes to sell another telephone number.
     
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    astutiumRob

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    I've had 2 deliveries from Waterstones in the last 4 weeks, all have been complete and arrived on time.

    With Amazon I've had missing book(s) and delayed deliveries - although to be fair they replaced the book that wasn't packed and sent it out next day, and delays could happen with any supplier.

    For fiction, I tend to just order it off whomever is cheapest. For non-fiction, I prefer to peruse it first and will pop into a Waterstones or Borders or the local independant, if they have it and I like it, will buy it there and then :)
     
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    I've had 2 deliveries from Waterstones in the last 4 weeks, all have been complete and arrived on time.

    With Amazon I've had missing book(s) and delayed deliveries - although to be fair they replaced the book that wasn't packed and sent it out next day, and delays could happen with any supplier.

    For fiction, I tend to just order it off whomever is cheapest. For non-fiction, I prefer to peruse it first and will pop into a Waterstones or Borders or the local independant, if they have it and I like it, will buy it there and then :)

    Wholeheartedly agree with all of the above.

    Fair point well made...
     
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