Was Sweden right after all ?

[Ian J]

All the indications are nothing much is going to change here until Easter.

It seems that my bargain flights for Easter that I bagged within minutes of them going on sale last September are going to end up a false economy

 

[Bob Morgan]

All the indications are nothing much is going to change here until Easter.

Of which year?

 

[Justin Smith]

It has occurred to me that if quarantine really is here for years the "Golden Generation" (whom, may I remind you, we are doing most of this to protect) really do deserve that epithet.
Not only did they have the opportunity to buy their houses at rock bottom prices (compared to today), but they also were the first to have free cradle to grave health care, decent pensions (many final salary), able to retire at 65 or even 60 (many, like my Dad, were actually able to retire earlier than that ! ), had full employment for most of their lives with (in many cases) better paid jobs, and, if quarantine does become long term, they'll have had easy foreign travel for almost their entire lives.

Yes, they really are the luckiest generation which has ever lived.

 

[Interestedobserver]

TalkRadio just reported that 25% of people being admitted to hospital are under 55.
Now some people will say : There ! It's not just older people ! We must keep up restrictions until everyone is vaccinated ! !

TBH I am amazed it's only 25% :

1 - Far more people under 55 will have been exposed to Covid than older people, particularly over 65s (many of whom are retired), that's just obvious.

2 - Many more under 55s have to go out to work.

3 - Far fewer under 55s will be self isolating. Furthermore it's just human nature that people at less risk will be less careful about social distancing etc, and older people will be more careful.

4 - That 25% figure will include those with serious existing health conditions, they are higher up in the vaccine pecking order.

5 - Hardly anyone under 55s will have had the vaccine

6 - Under 55s constitute about 70% of the UK population

So, bearing all the above in mind, if only 25% of those admitted to hospital are under 55 I am amazed it's that low.

You really are getting desperate to try and play down Covid aren't you?

 

[Interestedobserver]

LOL. I wrote nothing about the virus, about building antibodies, sickness, death, percentage of population vaccinated etc., You've introduced all sorts of angles for reasons unknown!!

Go back and read my first post again which simply referenced a scientists opinion that the body may not retain a high level of antibodies. T-cell immunity and the bodies memory is a different thing altogether, but counting antibody levels is, in the opinion of the scientist, a poor way of assessing immunity.

Last summer professor Karol Sikora kept banging on about T cell immunity and why we shouldn't be locking down and why there wouldn't be a second wave etc as we had already built up herd immunity etc etc

Loads of people jumped on the bandwagon

But the bandwagon stopped when their promises of no second wave and claims that lockdowns were a huge over reaction were proven wrong

Karol Sikora just focusses on telling people to stay safe and get cancer check ups now

That's the first time I've heard T Cell immunity mentioned for a while

 

[Justin Smith]

You really are getting desperate to try and play down Covid aren't you?

I am not playing down Covid, it is just that the government are in full exaggeration scare propaganda mode to "increase compliance". Nobody can deny that though some might say that is a legitimate tactic. I would not for three reasons :

1 - I do not like being misled (or actually lied to : "that person in the park is highly likely to have Covid")

2 - It will backfire on them as more and more people lose trust in them

3 - The most significant, they have got so many people so scared that they will want to keep many of these measures for far longer than necessary, and some possibly forever. That directly affects me and makes me very angry.

 

[Mr D]

TalkRadio just reported that 25% of people being admitted to hospital are under 55.
Now some people will say : There ! It's not just older people ! We must keep up restrictions until everyone is vaccinated ! !

TBH I am amazed it's only 25% :

1 - Far more people under 55 will have been exposed to Covid than older people, particularly over 65s (many of whom are retired), that's just obvious.

2 - Many more under 55s have to go out to work.

3 - Far fewer under 55s will be self isolating. Furthermore it's just human nature that people at less risk will be less careful about social distancing etc, and older people will be more careful.

4 - That 25% figure will include those with serious existing health conditions, they are higher up in the vaccine pecking order.

5 - Hardly anyone under 55s will have had the vaccine

6 - Under 55s constitute about 70% of the UK population

So, bearing all the above in mind, if only 25% of those admitted to hospital are under 55 I am amazed it's that low.

Under 55s will also include care home staff and NHS staff - people who are being vaccinated currently too.
How effective 1 jab is - depends which jab. Cutting risk is not eliminating risk.
So, by mid March there should be a couple of million or more under 55s who don't have serious health conditions who have been vaccinated. Plus a bunch of old people (like over 50).
The ones with serious existing health conditions will be vaccinated when others with similar conditions are slated to be. Probably not working from the workplace however, though some will be able to work at home.

The figures I linked to - they are just for England, probably broadly similar impact elsewhere in the UK.

The problem the government have is keeping everyone safe. Including you.
Even against your will.

They can't stop you walking around outside without a mask. They can stop you refusing to social distance, going in shops, travelling a distance etc.

 

[Mr D]

I am not playing down Covid, it is just that the government are in full exaggeration scare propaganda mode to "increase compliance". Nobody can deny that though some might say that is a legitimate tactic. I would not for three reasons :

1 - I do not like being misled (or actually lied to : "that person in the park is highly likely to have Covid")

2 - It will backfire on them as more and more people lose trust in them

3 - The most significant, they have got so many people so scared that they will want to keep many of these measures for far longer than necessary, and some possibly forever. That directly affects me and makes me very angry.

What methods should government be doing to increase compliance?

Are you scared enough????

Judging by the media reports, some are not in any way scared. Some like you want to have a normal life - and others will pay for that.
150 people at a wedding? Odds are that someone will have the virus and pass it on. How many people at a wedding do in a hall can catch it at the event? More than if they were shopping, exercising outdoors etc while maintaining social distance, mask wearing etc.

Britain is actually a pretty good place. You can do what you want much of the time - just with some things if you get caught you pay a fine, go to court, get arrested etc.

 

[simon field]

Is it really wise to accept orders from the prime minister of England, a compulsive liar, a man who seemingly uses a toffee apple to comb his hair?

 

[Mr D]

Is it really wise to accept orders from the prime minister of England, a compulsive liar, a man who seemingly uses a toffee apple to comb his hair?

You can of course do the opposite of what he tells you.

Does not mean you will survive this though.


When he told you the NHS was under pressure - a lie or the truth?
When he told you the country was going into lockdown - a lie or the truth?
When he told you that exercise outside was allowed - a lie or the truth?

Perhaps he has lied to you, perhaps you heard what you wanted to hear rather than the words he was using.
Some stuff he hasn't lied to you - can you tell which?

 

[Interestedobserver]

I am not playing down Covid, it is just that the government are in full exaggeration scare propaganda mode to "increase compliance". Nobody can deny that though some might say that is a legitimate tactic. I would not for three reasons :

1 - I do not like being misled (or actually lied to : "that person in the park is highly likely to have Covid")

2 - It will backfire on them as more and more people lose trust in them

3 - The most significant, they have got so many people so scared that they will want to keep many of these measures for far longer than necessary, and some possibly forever. That directly affects me and makes me very angry.

Many times youve called it scaremongering

The problem you face is the longer Covid is around the more you meet people who have either had Covid or had a friend or family member badly affected by Covid

There so many real people out there that will tell you all you need to know about Covid to make sure you will do your best to avoid it for yourself or your family

It's clearly an awful disease far far worse both short term and long term than flu

So you are fighting a losing battle if you want everyone in the UK to think that the whole world around them is over reacting Justin

 

[Interestedobserver]

What methods should government be doing to increase compliance?

Are you scared enough????

Judging by the media reports, some are not in any way scared. Some like you want to have a normal life - and others will pay for that.
150 people at a wedding? Odds are that someone will have the virus and pass it on. How many people at a wedding do in a hall can catch it at the event? More than if they were shopping, exercising outdoors etc while maintaining social distance, mask wearing etc.

Britain is actually a pretty good place. You can do what you want much of the time - just with some things if you get caught you pay a fine, go to court, get arrested etc.

200 people at a party in London last night that got violent when police tried to break it up

People need to start to go to jail for abusing the lockdown rules

 

[Interestedobserver]

I am not playing down Covid, it is just that the government are in full exaggeration scare propaganda mode to "increase compliance". Nobody can deny that though some might say that is a legitimate tactic. I would not for three reasons :

1 - I do not like being misled (or actually lied to : "that person in the park is highly likely to have Covid")

2 - It will backfire on them as more and more people lose trust in them

3 - The most significant, they have got so many people so scared that they will want to keep many of these measures for far longer than necessary, and some possibly forever. That directly affects me and makes me very angry.

You've played it down from day one

Never wanted any lockdown

Now as every claim you've made about herd immunity etc etc has been proven wrong you are actually accepting we need lockdowns now

Yet still complaining

When you've got things wrong as much as you have about a topic I can't really see how you have the nerve to accuse others of exaggerating stuff any more?

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

A little concerning that the extended timeline of 12 weeks for the second vaccine dose does not comply with the test results that were produced with a 21 day gap.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist but decisions like this are akin to baking a cake at gas mark 2 when the packet says gas mark 7. Common sense dictates etc.,

 

[Jeff FV]

It seems that my bargain flights for Easter that I bagged within minutes of them going on sale last September are going to end up a false economy

My flights to Seville in April got cancelled last week.

now just waiting for the money back. Experience has taught me (flights to Plama, Prague & Barcelona cancelled last year, all EasyJet) is that you fill in the form and wait and, at or around the date the flight was due to go, you get the cash back.)

Still hopeful that my trip to Greece this summer will still go ahead ...

 

[Newchodge]

A little concerning that the extended timeline of 12 weeks for the second vaccine dose does not comply with the test results that were produced with a 21 day gap.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist but decisions like this are akin to baking a cake at gas mark 2 when the packet says gas mark 7. Common sense dictates etc.,

But they are following the science, until the science says something that contradicts the decisions they have made. The WHO, Pfizer and now a number of doctors have said they should not use a 12 week gap. But it seems obvious that, if 1 dose gives 90% immunity and the second only increases it to 95%, giving 1 dose to twice as many people will give double the immunity in the population. Until the mock scientists who are our politicians realise that the immunity from the first dose does not last and delaying the second dose may mean it is ineffective.

And we (generally, I don't mean I) voted for this bunch of ignorant, arrogant liars.

 

[Mr D]

But they are following the science, until the science says something that contradicts the decisions they have made. The WHO, Pfizer and now a number of doctors have said they should not use a 12 week gap. But it seems obvious that, if 1 dose gives 90% immunity and the second only increases it to 95%, giving 1 dose to twice as many people will give double the immunity in the population. Until the mock scientists who are our politicians realise that the immunity from the first dose does not last and delaying the second dose may mean it is ineffective.

And we (generally, I don't mean I) voted for this bunch of ignorant, arrogant liars.

Yes, the politicians we voted into power get to make decisions.
We don't vote in the medical specialists, we vote in the politicians standing for office.


And if we had voted in different candidates last time - we'd still likely be making many of the same decisions the same way!
The advice given won't change based on the politicians. The civil servants, the scientists, the medical staff - they won't have changed.
And the problems would not have been different.

 

[Interestedobserver]

My flights to Seville in April got cancelled last week.

now just waiting for the money back. Experience has taught me (flights to Plama, Prague & Barcelona cancelled last year, all EasyJet) is that you fill in the form and wait and, at or around the date the flight was due to go, you get the cash back.)

Still hopeful that my trip to Greece this summer will still go ahead ...

I think you've got a chance with Greece in the summer.

In your favour:

It's summer - less transmission of Covid
Greece will be desperate for you to travel
So will Easyjet (if they are still operating)

Ps Seville is an amazing city. Rebook when you get the chance (assuming it was going to be your first time)

 

[Newchodge]

I think you've got a chance with Greece in the summer.

In your favour:

It's summer - less transmission of Covid
Greece will be desperate for you to travel
So will Easyjet (if they are still operating)

Ps Seville is an amazing city. Rebook when you get the chance (assuming it was going to be your first time)

And, if you get the chance, have a drink on the terrace of the parador at Carmona.

 

[Ian J]

My flights to Seville in April got cancelled last week.

now just waiting for the money back. Experience has taught me (flights to Plama, Prague & Barcelona cancelled last year, all EasyJet) is that you fill in the form and wait and, at or around the date the flight was due to go, you get the cash back.)

Still hopeful that my trip to Greece this summer will still go ahead ...

Unfortunately my flights to Lanzarote in April and Menorca in June are both with Ryanair and they tend to cancel at the last minute. If one or both are cancelled I will just rebook for a fortnight in October instead like I did last year but like yourself I am hoping that my summer flight to Greece (Kefalonia) will go ahead

 

[Justin Smith]

The problem the government have is keeping everyone safe. Including you.
Even against your will.

That is impossible on any level (Covid or non Covid), and to try to achieve absolute safety for everyone is a sure sign of absolute lunacy.

 

[Justin Smith]

I think you've got a chance with Greece in the summer.

In your favour:

It's summer - less transmission of Covid
Greece will be desperate for you to travel
So will Easyjet (if they are still operating)

Ps Seville is an amazing city. Rebook when you get the chance (assuming it was going to be your first time)

I have answered this post in the Airline travel thread :
https://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/threads/airline-travel-in-the-pandemic.410560/page-3#post-3060657

 

[Mr D]

That is impossible on any level (Covid or non Covid), and to try to achieve absolute safety for everyone is a sure sign of absolute lunacy.

Nevertheless they have to do it.

Rather than decide which lives are worth living and which are worth not.

 

[thetiger2015]

You can of course do the opposite of what he tells you.

Does not mean you will survive this though.


When he told you the NHS was under pressure - a lie or the truth?
When he told you the country was going into lockdown - a lie or the truth?
When he told you that exercise outside was allowed - a lie or the truth?

Perhaps he has lied to you, perhaps you heard what you wanted to hear rather than the words he was using.
Some stuff he hasn't lied to you - can you tell which?

No..you can't tell which...because he contradicts himself within a single speech.

NHS under pressure - it is a lot of the time and they did have pandemic planning in place but it seems to have been ignored. The NHS is woefully mis-managed and that comes from the top.
Lockdown - nobody knows if it's a lockdown or not, it's supposed to be, plenty of people having parties and out and about as normal. Lots of people still working, nurseries still open, builders working, estate agents still working etc.
Exercise outside - kind of, you can go 7 miles on a bike but you cannot drive to a location to exercise, unless, maybe you can, depending on if you can or not.

Guidance issued, actual law is different to guidance, police don't know which one to follow. They can follow the law and stop everyone from going out at all or they can follow the guidance and allow people to exercise locally, if it's local, but maybe it's not local, unless it is local. Is 1 mile local or 2? The PM seems to believe it's around 7 miles.

Obviously, I use my common sense and stay within my local area. I rarely drive anywhere and fit in a shop on the same journey. It's not that simple for others though.

 

[Mr D]

No..you can't tell which...because he contradicts himself within a single speech.

NHS under pressure - it is a lot of the time and they did have pandemic planning in place but it seems to have been ignored. The NHS is woefully mis-managed and that comes from the top.
Lockdown - nobody knows if it's a lockdown or not, it's supposed to be, plenty of people having parties and out and about as normal. Lots of people still working, nurseries still open, builders working, estate agents still working etc.
Exercise outside - kind of, you can go 7 miles on a bike but you cannot drive to a location to exercise, unless, maybe you can, depending on if you can or not.

Guidance issued, actual law is different to guidance, police don't know which one to follow. They can follow the law and stop everyone from going out at all or they can follow the guidance and allow people to exercise locally, if it's local, but maybe it's not local, unless it is local. Is 1 mile local or 2? The PM seems to believe it's around 7 miles.

Obviously, I use my common sense and stay within my local area. I rarely drive anywhere and fit in a shop on the same journey. It's not that simple for others though.

Yes as I said early last year we will not go for total lockdown - the best we will do is a partial lockdown with many millions of people working.
Far less brutal than a full lockdown. And allows both healthcare and enforcement.

Have you ever been cycling? 7 miles I would see as maybe 20 to 25 minutes exercise.


A couple of hours exercise may be 30 miles. How far should be ridden?
Or indeed should any strenuous exercise that is going to increase breathing be done?


The law does not define distance. Is that Boris at fault for agreeing to it? Is it parliament at fault for not amending it? Or was it amended to remove a distance given?

 

[Justin Smith]

I can remember at the start of this pandemic the WHO saying the most important weapon in a government's arsenal [against Covid] is trust [as in the people trusting it], and they are undoubtedly right.
Now, I don't know whether this new "Kent" variant is more deadly than the previous one or not. But, unfortunately, I do not fully trust the government after their repeated attempts to keep the fear factor up ("to encourage compliance"). I do not think they lie, I just think they present distorted information.
Why do I think that ?
Well :

1 - "This virus is indiscriminate" (it quite plainly is not)

2 - "Long Covid" (it affects between in 1 in 50 and 1 in 60 and is defined as any symptom however mild still l being experienced 3 months after infection, then they surreptitiously changed the definition to after 2 months so as to increase the numbers . More than once I have had viral infections which I still haven't fully shaken off after a couple of months, it is common)

3 - Government advert "that person in the park is highly likely to have Covid" (the actual chance is about 1 in 40 to 1 in 50)

4 - The BBC [not the government, but they're all singing from the same hymn sheet at the moment] constantly report about young people in hospital when most of those dying in hospital are older. Even worse the Beeb having as their lead item of news a man telling the heart rending tale of watching his wife die of Covid (it is very sad and many people are dying, but that "story" is arguably not even news, it certainly should not be lead item on the BBC News website, unless they are pushing the "fear" agenda, particularly to younger people).

I am not a conspiracy theorist, people are dying, we should be locked down for a few weeks till the top 15 million are vaccinated, but the above mentioned points are all demonstrably misleading or tendentious.

Nice of the Govt (and the Beeb) to prove me right so quickly.....
"Full scare propaganda mode" :

1 - The scientists responsible for the report BoJo was using to say the new variant of Covid "was more deadly" are rowing back on it. They're saying he jumped the gun, they're not actually so sure it is yet. It might be, but the point is the Govt, as they have all the way through, have exaggerated and been overly pessimistic so as to promote fear "to ensure compliance". Nobody can reasonably deny that.

2 - On the Beeb tonight "Record numbers are on ventilation" [in hospital].
Yes they're right, but they don't mention that Covid hospitalisations have been going down for three days. Yet more pessimistic fear propaganda (but I'm sure some on here will still click unimpressed even though I'm just quoting facts) :

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare

Vaccinated (first dose & second dose) :
18 Jan = 4.06M & 452K
19 Jan = 4.27M & 456K
20 Jan = 4.61M & 461K
21 Jan = 4.97M & 464K
22 Jan = 5.38M & 467K
23 Jan = 5.86M & 469K

Hospitalised :
18 Jan = 37.5K
19 Jan = 38.5K
20 Jan = 39.1K
21 Jan = 38.7K
22 Jan = 38.5K
23 Jan = 37.9K

On ventilation :
18 Jan = 3.8K
19 Jan = 3.9K
20 Jan = 3.9K
21 Jan = 4.0K
22 Jan = 4.0K
23 Jan = 4.1K

Is it any wonder I take anything the Govt say about Covid with a MASSIVE pinch of salt ?

 

[Interestedobserver]

Nice of the Govt (and the Beeb) to prove me right so quickly.....
"Full scare propaganda mode" :

1 - The scientists responsible for the report BoJo was using to say the new variant of Covid "was more deadly" are rowing back on it. They're saying he jumped the gun, they're not actually so sure it is yet. It might be, but the point is the Govt, as they have all the way through, have exaggerated and been overly pessimistic so as to promote fear "to ensure compliance". Nobody can reasonably deny that.

2 - On the Beeb tonight "Record numbers are on ventilation" [in hospital].
Yes they're right, but they don't mention that Covid hospitalisations have been going down for three days. Yet more pessimistic fear propaganda (but I'm sure some on here will still click unimpressed even though I'm just quoting facts) :

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare

Vaccinated (first dose & second dose) :
18 Jan = 4.06M & 452K
19 Jan = 4.27M & 456K
20 Jan = 4.61M & 461K
21 Jan = 4.97M & 464K
22 Jan = 5.38M & 467K
23 Jan = 5.86M & 469K

Hospitalised :
18 Jan = 37.5K
19 Jan = 38.5K
20 Jan = 39.1K
21 Jan = 38.7K
22 Jan = 38.5K
23 Jan = 37.9K

On ventilation :
18 Jan = 3.8K
19 Jan = 3.9K
20 Jan = 3.9K
21 Jan = 4.0K
22 Jan = 4.0K
23 Jan = 4.1K

Is it any wonder I take anything the Govt say about Covid with a MASSIVE pinch of salt ?

Nurses are 'broken'
Dr Ami Jones, intensive care consultant at Aneurin Bevan University Health Board, in Wales, said there had been "carnage" for the "last few weeks".

Speaking whilst on shift, she told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "We're maybe at 150% capacity and I know London are much worse than that.

"We've a steady stream of fit, young patients requiring critical care and sadly we're losing some of those patients.

"We lost a patient overnight and I've replaced them with a patient of similar age.

"It's heartbreaking - and it's been going on for weeks and weeks and we haven't seen any kind of stop yet."

Dr Jones said the average Covid patient stays in hospital between two to four weeks "and it really puts them through it".

She added: "You really want people who are going to be able to survive that three or four weeks and actually come out the other end and make a good recovery.

"We're not stopping people having care but we're giving it to the people we feel have the best chance of getting through what is a horrific situation we're going to put them through."

Dr Jones said nurses are "broken", both physically, from months of long shifts in personal protective equipment (PPE), and emotionally - partly due to the impact of the virus on them, their families and the community.

 

[simon field]

It must be awful for them, and I bet they are feeling very let down.

 

[Mr D]

It must be awful for them, and I bet they are feeling very let down.

Quite possible that once the crisis is past, many leave for non-nursing or non-hospital jobs. Burned out, traumatised, even just plain exhausted.

 

[Mr D]

Nice of the Govt (and the Beeb) to prove me right so quickly.....
"Full scare propaganda mode" :

1 - The scientists responsible for the report BoJo was using to say the new variant of Covid "was more deadly" are rowing back on it. They're saying he jumped the gun, they're not actually so sure it is yet. It might be, but the point is the Govt, as they have all the way through, have exaggerated and been overly pessimistic so as to promote fear "to ensure compliance". Nobody can reasonably deny that.

2 - On the Beeb tonight "Record numbers are on ventilation" [in hospital].
Yes they're right, but they don't mention that Covid hospitalisations have been going down for three days. Yet more pessimistic fear propaganda (but I'm sure some on here will still click unimpressed even though I'm just quoting facts) :

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare

Vaccinated (first dose & second dose) :
18 Jan = 4.06M & 452K
19 Jan = 4.27M & 456K
20 Jan = 4.61M & 461K
21 Jan = 4.97M & 464K
22 Jan = 5.38M & 467K
23 Jan = 5.86M & 469K

Hospitalised :
18 Jan = 37.5K
19 Jan = 38.5K
20 Jan = 39.1K
21 Jan = 38.7K
22 Jan = 38.5K
23 Jan = 37.9K

On ventilation :
18 Jan = 3.8K
19 Jan = 3.9K
20 Jan = 3.9K
21 Jan = 4.0K
22 Jan = 4.0K
23 Jan = 4.1K

Is it any wonder I take anything the Govt say about Covid with a MASSIVE pinch of salt ?

Even 3 days doesn't indicate a trend.

You are seeing what you want to see. Take it over a longer time, maybe a trend will show. Up or down.
By all means use the start date of 21st Jan - I certainly would. But look longer than 3 days.
You could be right, you could be wrong.

Reminds me of back early last year when the infection numbers dropped for 2 days in China and some claimed it was a trend, the worst was over. The figures went back up a few days later.

Now if the hospital cases does trend downwards, at what point should government relax any of the current measures in place?
Obviously they aren't at 37.9k - but would they at 10k? 5K?

 

[Justin Smith]

I am not playing down Covid, it is just that the government are in full exaggeration scare propaganda mode to "increase compliance". Nobody can deny that though some might say that is a legitimate tactic. I would not for three reasons :

1 - I do not like being misled (or actually lied to : "that person in the park is highly likely to have Covid")

2 - It will backfire on them as more and more people lose trust in them

3 - The most significant, they have got so many people so scared that they will want to keep many of these measures for far longer than necessary, and some possibly forever. That directly affects me and makes me very angry.

"Full scare propaganda mode".
On the Beeb text service just now : a story about a year old woman teacher who dies with Covid.

Now, don't get me wrong that is incredibly sad, she hasn't even lived a third of her life, awful......

BUT, someone of that age dying of Covid is very rare, particularly a woman even if she had a serious existing condition, though the article made no mention of any existing health conditions so (unless the article basically purposely misleading) one can assume she had none.
We all know why that story was on there don't we ?
Scaring people, especially younger people, "to encourage compliance".
If one was really cynical, and over this I am, there is even a possibility it's softening us up to expect loads pf restrictions for months after the vulnerable have all been isolated "because look, young people are dying with Covid".
Trust in the government, and their mouthpiece teh BBC, I don't think so.

 

[Mr D]

"Full scare propaganda mode".
On the Beeb text service just now : a story about a year old woman teacher who dies with Covid.

Now, don't get me wrong that is incredibly sad, she hasn't even lived a third of her life, awful......

BUT, someone of that age dying of Covid is very rare, particularly a woman even if she had a serious existing condition, though the article made no mention of any existing health conditions so (unless the article basically purposely misleading) one can assume she had none.
We all know why that story was on there don't we ?
Scaring people, especially younger people, "to encourage compliance".
If one was really cynical, and over this I am, there is even a possibility it's softening us up to expect loads pf restrictions for months after the vulnerable have all been isolated "because look, young people are dying with Covid".
Trust in the government, and their mouthpiece teh BBC, I don't think so.

Human interest stories. Pretty common in the media, people relate to them better than to impersonal statistics.

 

[Interestedobserver]

"Full scare propaganda mode".
On the Beeb text service just now : a story about a year old woman teacher who dies with Covid.

Now, don't get me wrong that is incredibly sad, she hasn't even lived a third of her life, awful......

BUT, someone of that age dying of Covid is very rare, particularly a woman even if she had a serious existing condition, though the article made no mention of any existing health conditions so (unless the article basically purposely misleading) one can assume she had none.
We all know why that story was on there don't we ?
Scaring people, especially younger people, "to encourage compliance".
If one was really cynical, and over this I am, there is even a possibility it's softening us up to expect loads pf restrictions for months after the vulnerable have all been isolated "because look, young people are dying with Covid".
Trust in the government, and their mouthpiece teh BBC, I don't think so.

Should we pretend it didn't happen?

 

[Justin Smith]

"Full scare propaganda mode".
On the Beeb text service just now : a story about a 25 year old woman teacher who dies with Covid.

Now, don't get me wrong that is incredibly sad, she hasn't even lived a third of her life, awful......

BUT, someone of that age dying of Covid is very rare, particularly a woman even if she had a serious existing condition, though the article made no mention of any existing health conditions so (unless the article basically purposely misleading) one can assume she had none.
We all know why that story was on there don't we ?
Scaring people, especially younger people, "to encourage compliance".
If one was really cynical, and over this I am, there is even a possibility it's softening us up to expect loads pf restrictions for months after the vulnerable have all been isolated "because look, young people are dying with Covid".
Trust in the government, and their mouthpiece teh BBC, I don't think so.

The age of the woman concerned did not get included in the original post, tragically she was only 25...... Like so much of life it's down to luck, very bad luck in the 25 year woman's old's case. My Aunty Betty got Covid at 90, she was asymptomatic. My Mum, at 92, was living with my Dad who had Covid, and my sister (who is helping to care for her) had Covid as well, my Mum tested negative. Weird.

 

[Justin Smith]

Should we pretend it didn't happen?

No, but why is it lead item on the news when hundreds of others were dying on the same day ?
I think we both know why.

 

[jpjj]

In the UK the average age for those dying with Covid is 82.4 whereas the average age of people dying of everything else is 81.2, which is 1.2 years younger.
Be alert (for misleading information).

That's one way of looking at it. Another is to look at how many years of life each of the fatalities lost, versus their life expectancy at the date they died given their age. This comes out at about ten years lost per person.

 

[Interestedobserver]

That's one way of looking at it. Another is to look at how many years of life each of the fatalities lost, versus their life expectancy at the date they died given their age. This comes out at about ten years lost per person.

That's a great point and very relevant

Not just 10 years of their life either - 10 years for the rest of their family to enjoy with them

When one person dies from Covid ten years prematurely (husband/wife/parent/grandparent/child etc)

The knock on effect on so many others in the family is huge

Heartbreaking

Which time and time again I don't see Justin putting any real value on in these threads?

 

[Justin Smith]

That's a great point and very relevant

Not just 10 years of their life either - 10 years for the rest of their family to enjoy with them

When one person dies from Covid ten years prematurely (husband/wife/parent/grandparent/child etc)

The knock on effect on so many others in the family is huge

Heartbreaking

Which time and time again I don't see Justin putting any real value on in these threads?

Obviously I do, but I could just as easily throw that back at you and say you don't seem to be putting any real value of the massive social and economic damage these suppression measures are having. Some estimate are that there will be as many deaths (in the medium / long term) due to the economic crash and mental health issues as from Covid. And very possibly the average age of those "victims" will be lower.

 

[Justin Smith]

That's one way of looking at it. Another is to look at how many years of life each of the fatalities lost, versus their life expectancy at the date they died given their age. This comes out at about ten years lost per person.

Have you got any stats to back that up ?

 

[Mr D]

No, but why is it lead item on the news when hundreds of others were dying on the same day ?
I think we both know why.

Human interest story.

Another day they will use a grandma. Another day they will use the father of a young child.

Human interest stories are common in media - many people relate better to them.