Van vs SUV vs estate car

[Paul FilmMaker]

So just had a van broken into. Naturally, we had emptied it because leaving a load of high end filming equipment in a van isn't very smart plus it's a rental with a load of insurance on it. So we're a little out of pocket but it's the usual hassle factor which is super annoying.

It was a Ford transit and they drilled the door plus annoyingly ripped out some electrics, presumably trying to get to the alarm / immobiliser. And parked on a residential street with street lighting etc... I would describe the nearest secure car park as probably around an hours walk.

Part of the reason for hiring a van was to test stuff like this. Will it get broken into? Will it be a real hassle to park etc...? It's fantastic for carrying stuff and want to buy one end of next year but the reality is the biggest issue is clearly getting broken into. And because we travel up and down the country for filming, we don't always know the best places to park and getting broken into now seems to be a major issue.

So I'm probably veering towards buying a big SUV or an Estate. We have an SUV and a big old saloon car (with an absolutely massive boot) and realistically, some SUVs are like small vans when the seats are down so going in that direction as I think they're much more likely not to left alone.

What's your experience (especially Jeremy Hawke who seems to know a lot about vehicles!). Is there a way to secure a van which won't have anything in it overnight? Is that realistic or are we just better off using personal vehicles like an SUV? Or even an estate (we have a lot of long poles).

 

[Newchodge]

So just had a van broken into. Naturally, we had emptied it because leaving a load of high end filming equipment in a van isn't very smart plus it's a rental with a load of insurance on it. So we're a little out of pocket but it's the usual hassle factor which is super annoying.

It was a Ford transit and they drilled the door plus annoyingly ripped out some electrics, presumably trying to get to the alarm / immobiliser. And parked on a residential street with street lighting etc... I would describe the nearest secure car park as probably around an hours walk.

Part of the reason for hiring a van was to test stuff like this. Will it get broken into? Will it be a real hassle to park etc...? It's fantastic for carrying stuff and want to buy one end of next year but the reality is the biggest issue is clearly getting broken into. And because we travel up and down the country for filming, we don't always know the best places to park and getting broken into now seems to be a major issue.

So I'm probably veering towards buying a big SUV or an Estate. We have an SUV and a big old saloon car (with an absolutely massive boot) and realistically, some SUVs are like small vans when the seats are down so going in that direction as I think they're much more likely not to left alone.

What's your experience (especially Jeremy Hawke who seems to know a lot about vehicles!). Is there a way to secure a van which won't have anything in it overnight? Is that realistic or are we just better off using personal vehicles like an SUV? Or even an estate (we have a lot of long poles).

Or is it better to leave them unlocked but well immobilised?

 

[DontAsk]

Is there a way to secure a van which won't have anything in it overnight?

Leave the doors open like artic drivers do when parked up for the night.

 

[Newchodge]

Leave the doors open like artic drivers do when parked up for the night.

Snap.

 

[Mark T Jones]

It's a conversation that happens a lot with trades.

There is a strong consensus that vehicles with windows are a good way to show that there is nothing worth nicking inside. On the other hand, a lot of thieves aren't terribly bright and might break in any way.

 

[IanSuth]

Vans a thief magnets (and some have know security weaknesses)- tradesmen know it either goes in a tool safe, indoors or disappears.

Get a big estate - my Skoda Octavia 1.9tdi was big enough with rear seats down to put a double airbed in yet could do 60mpg on a long A-Road run. Only got rid for ULEZ reasons (and then only to my son)

A Van or SUV is heavier and less slippy so mpg will be much less, an SUV rarely has huge load capacity.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

A TESLA 'Y' with the rear seats laid flat will apparently accommodate a double mattress. Storage space is good too...

 

[Paul FilmMaker]

Vans a thief magnets (and some have know security weaknesses)- tradesmen know it either goes in a tool safe, indoors or disappears.

Get a big estate - my Skoda Octavia 1.9tdi was big enough with rear seats down to put a double airbed in yet could do 60mpg on a long A-Road run. Only got rid for ULEZ reasons (and then only to my son)

A Van or SUV is heavier and less slippy so mpg will be much less, an SUV rarely has huge load capacity.

Strangely, the hire company also told me about the security weaknesses. They said that all their Ford Transits get broken into in the same way...

A big estate might work. It could be good.

 

[IanSuth]

Strangely, the hire company also told me about the security weaknesses. They said that all their Ford Transits get broken into in the same way...

A big estate might work. It could be good.

10 vans in my brothers village done in one night without force being used - insurers all tried to say "can't have been locked properly" until the victims got the Plod to link the crime numbers - they were all transits.

Not going to post on here the exact method but doing something simple in a few seconds to the drivers door lock unlocks the rear doors

 

[MBE2017]

I personally use Mitsubishi Shoguns and Outlanders, have for twenty years or more, and these days I always get all the windows you are allowed to tinted as dark as possible, limousine black. Not had a break in since.

Transits have terrible security as standard, and have well known weaknesses, the tea leaves love them.

 

[bovine]

A lot of the SUVs have much less space than similarly sized estate car. SUVs could also be problematic in urban areas, with the eco groups who let tyres down etc.
I've had a similar requirement for years and have found the people carrier/mpvs to be a good compromise. Ive had old shape peugeot 5008, ford smax, citreon C4 grand picasso/space tourer and they all had options for 7 seats, but fold them down and the rear seats and you had a van. Windows tints to help obscure the load and no one gives them a second look. The extra internal height can be useful, depending on what you need to lug about.
If you're looking for a good massive estate, skoda superb is often suggested as being a very good option. Volvo v90 would be my suggestion as well. Although a lot of manufacturers are moving away from estates now.

 

[Scott DLE]

It depends how much a load you need to carry regularly. I used a Scoda Octavia for years and rented a van from enterprise for £30 per day when we had to carry more kit. You can get a business account with enterprise and it’s mega cheap to hire when needed.

I know a company who went to Rome with loads of AV kit for a corporate event and they opened both vans like a tin opener and stole in excess of £100k of stock from the hotel carpark. It’s pretty worrying.

 

[WaveJumper]

A TESLA 'Y' with the rear seats laid flat will apparently accommodate a double mattress. Storage space is good too...

Yep a lot of space in the back, and when my son wants a bit more he’s got himself a matching black box trailer works an absolute treat.

Transit‘s are known for poor security if you know what you’re doing it takes seconds to get in. On a slightly different vain was talking to someone today who was telling me there are parts of London now where you cant get your Range Rover covered not sure how true that is but I know of three stolen from around out own development here in Essex in the last couple of months so nothing would surprise me.

 

[MBE2017]

On a slightly different vain was talking to someone today who was telling me there are parts of London now where you cant get your Range Rover covered not sure how true that is but I know of three stolen from around out own development here in Essex in the last couple of months so nothing would surprise me.

I imagine the Excel centre might be one such area, plenty of Range Rovers get taken from the car park there.

 

[Paul FilmMaker]

It depends how much a load you need to carry regularly. I used a Scoda Octavia for years and rented a van from enterprise for £30 per day when we had to carry more kit. You can get a business account with enterprise and it’s mega cheap to hire when needed.

I know a company who went to Rome with loads of AV kit for a corporate event and they opened both vans like a tin opener and stole in excess of £100k of stock from the hotel carpark. It’s pretty worrying.

Coincidentally, I had an identical experience in Rome! An estate is a good idea and then just renting from Enterprise. Enterprise is about £70 a day when insurance etc... is thrown in. And I need insurance! It's still a good price, though.

 

[Scott DLE]

Coincidentally, I had an identical experience in Rome! An estate is a good idea and then just renting from Enterprise. Enterprise is about £70 a day when insurance etc... is thrown in. And I need insurance! It's still a good price, though.

If you open a business account with enterprise it’s around half the price. I’m still hiring the odd time and never pay more than £40 a day inc insurance. You just need to go in and show them your a business and they give you an online booking account.

 

[Paul FilmMaker]

If you open a business account with enterprise it’s around half the price. I’m still hiring the odd time and never pay more than £40 a day inc insurance. You just need to go in and show them your a business and they give you an online booking account.

That's useful. Thanks! I'll try that.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

I think you would get robbed more if the vehicle has windows in it
Modern estate cars and SUVS always appear big but I find that the boot entrances are smaller than in the past and there is a lot of trim that gets in the way

ie
Qashqai........?
How can you call this useless thing a 4X4 or SUV
It seats four adults (comfortably) yet you can only get 3 suitcases in the boot

I rent vans from Enterprise most days using their Partner business account

 

[Paul FilmMaker]

I think you would get robbed more if the vehicle has windows in it
Modern estate cars and SUVS always appear big but I find that the boot entrances are smaller than in the past and there is a lot of trim that gets in the way

ie
Qashqai........?
How can you call this useless thing a 4X4 or SUV
It seats four adults (comfortably) yet you can only get 3 suitcases in the boot

I rent vans from Enterprise most days using their Partner business account

Thanks for chipping in. I think of you as the resident vehicle expert here! I did a shoot for a major car company so can't really comment too much on rear space but I'm with you on that. I was really surprised how little there was.

My partner's Yeti's pretty spacious. It's like a minivan once the seats are down.

Hiring a van's good as well with the Enterprise Partner business account. Couple of good options and need to think about it.

 

[Dory]

We used Nissan Terrano SUV'S as a van for over 20 years - never had one broken into - even though tools were left inside overnight under blankets - all our sub-contractors have had vans broken into and tools stolen - recently changed to a van so hoping it doesn't happen to us

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

I think this is better placed here than on a new thread, but what are the rules regarding the purchase of an estate car as opposed to a van for deliveries and general business use?

I spoke to my accountant and he says you can't 'get away' with putting an estate car through the books to run a few boxes up to Parcelforce each day. I currently have a low mileage old van which is adequate for the 1500 miles a year it currently does for business use but impractical for visiting customers and more *general use.

*I recall someone saying that dropping small packages, brochures or leaflets off to customers may invalidate my personal car insurance if in an accident?

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

If you are going to leave it empty at night, a SUV or estate maybe better because of the windows.

Vans that are enclosed may have a tempting bounty inside!

 

[DontAsk]

*I recall someone saying that dropping small packages, brochures or leaflets off to customers may invalidate my personal car insurance if in an accident?

ANY business use needs to be appropriately insured.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

I have an 20 year old shed that is a car. A Pug Partner with windows! it has 350,000 miles on the clock and I cant kill it

This is a business vehicle and is on the books as the tax inspectors knows that nobody would be sad enough to drive it for pleasure ??
I was scrapping it then we put lots of new bits on it and kept it
It costs more on the haulage insurance than its worth ?

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

If you are going to leave it empty at night, a SUV or estate maybe better because of the windows.

Yes, it's an estate I'm looking at...

ANY business use needs to be appropriately insured.

Yes, there was thread on here a while back as to what constitutes business use so I stopped using our family car for occasional deliveries and do everything in the van now. I'm asking for guidance regarding the purchase of a car for use as a delivery vehicle and personal use, not the other way round.

Not vat registered.

 

[Newchodge]

Yes, it's an estate I'm looking at...

Yes, there was thread on here a while back as to what constitutes business use so I stopped using our family car for occasional deliveries and do everything in the van now. I'm asking for guidance regarding the purchase of a car for use as a delivery vehicle and personal use, not the other way round.

Not vat registered.

Sole trader of ltd company?

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Sole trader of ltd company?

Ltd Company

 

[Newchodge]

Ltd Company

How much personal use?

 

[NicoJ]

I think this is better placed here than on a new thread, but what are the rules regarding the purchase of an estate car as opposed to a van for deliveries and general business use?

I spoke to my accountant and he says you can't 'get away' with putting an estate car through the books to run a few boxes up to Parcelforce each day. I currently have a low mileage old van which is adequate for the 1500 miles a year it currently does for business use but impractical for visiting customers and more *general use.

*I recall someone saying that dropping small packages, brochures or leaflets off to customers may invalidate my personal car insurance if in an accident?

Your accountant is right (although the terminology is a bit strange).

You can do it, but the tax consequences of a car are generally unattractive. You would be better putting a mileage claim in.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

How much personal use?

Difficult to ascertain but at a guess 50/50

We have a family car for days out, restaurant visits etc., which we use out of necessity as the 3 seater van is not practical. I borrow the family car - when the wife permits - for business use, i.e., attending events put on by customers, going into central London for a meeting etc., The van is Luton bodied so height restrictions in most council owned car parks is restrictive and I think an estate would better serve my overall needs.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Your accountant is right (although the terminology is a bit strange).

You can do it, but the tax consequences of a car are generally unattractive. You would be better putting a mileage claim in.

My interpretation of the accountants terminology when referring to blocking out the rear windows of a regular estate car and passing it off as a van.

 

[Newchodge]

50/50 personal use sounds like a company car to me. Sorry.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

50/50 personal use sounds like a company car to me. Sorry.

An Estate is a car?

 

[Newchodge]

An Estate is a car?

What else is it? It's correct name is an estate car.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

Get it as a personal vehicle and claim business mileage? Is that a better overall for tax, based on 50/50 use?

 

[NicoJ]

My interpretation of the accountants terminology when referring to blocking out the rear windows of a regular estate car and passing it off as a van.

Ah, well that makes sense. This would always be a car no matter what cosmetics you did to it.

Personal use doesn't matter for a car, it is the AVAILABILITY of it that matters. It would be a BIK, no question. The tax would be worked out based on the emissions of the car.

 

[bovine]

vans have been more attractive to run as company vehicles with some personal use than cars for a while. It used to cover pickups (not sure if it still does) so I know quite a few people who got them who really didnt need them. But they were more tax efficient for them to run. Its generally been regarded as cars are better to be run privately and claim mileage. Personal tax situation makes a difference and EVs may have changed that thinking as well, but Im a bit rusty on that.

You can get car derived vans, but I believe they have to be declared as such by the manufacturer.

 

[14Steve14]

I think this is better placed here than on a new thread, but what are the rules regarding the purchase of an estate car as opposed to a van for deliveries and general business use?

I spoke to my accountant and he says you can't 'get away' with putting an estate car through the books to run a few boxes up to Parcelforce each day. I currently have a low mileage old van which is adequate for the 1500 miles a year it currently does for business use but impractical for visiting customers and more *general use.

*I recall someone saying that dropping small packages, brochures or leaflets off to customers may invalidate my personal car insurance if in an accident?

As long as you have business use on your insurance you should be fine.

 

[Mark James]

Also depends on what sort of image you want/need to portray to your clients ie pulling up onsite in a 04 Nissan estate with wind down window handles just to save a few quid may not be the best image. It’s true unfortunately but your judged on first impressions and a nice shiny new or newish sign written van will draw a picture of success in your clients minds and give them confidence that your being used by other companies and you can justify your fees.

Whether you agree or not it’s Just human psychology.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Also depends on what sort of image you want/need to portray to your clients ie pulling up onsite in a 04 Nissan estate with wind down window handles just to save a few quid may not be the best image. It’s true unfortunately but your judged on first impressions and a nice shiny new or newish sign written van will draw a picture of success in your clients minds and give them confidence that your being used by other companies and you can justify your fees.

Whether you agree or not it’s Just human psychology.

I understand your view but it couldn't be further from the truth in my case.

A salesman for many years I once attended a course where the tutor gave examples of inappropriate presentation. The one that sticks in my mind is that of a salesman calling on a farm wearing suede loafers and a hand made suit, when a tweed or wax jacket and welly boots would be the order of the day.

'To sell Joe Bloggs what Joe Bloggs buys, see Joe Bloggs through Joe Bloggs eyes'!

I don't need shiny new van to portray success. The product sells itself....