Urgent Advice-Business Water Disconnection Notice

[clamp1988]

Any advice will be welcome.

I work with a restaurant and just 2 days before they received a letter from Castle Water that the supply will be discounnect if payment of £600ish (includes field collect agent fee of £290ish) is not made 7 days of the letter.

The amount made up as follow:

Under Dispute £50 (Jan 2023)they say one of the staff didnt allow access to read water meter - he has no knowledge.
£50 Late payment of above
£60 and £60 water billed Nov/Dec 2023
£50 let payment fees
£290 Field Debt Collection Dec 20th 2023
£50 Late payment fee on 27th Dec 2023

Total demand for £600 give or take £15.

After receiving the letter he went online to see why this has happened and It transpires that before November they sent Bills twice a year by post and and say that he has opted to go paperless and they have started billing Monthly none of which he has no knowledge.

Over Christmas raised a complaint to Castle and paid £310 setup a direct debit (although some of this is disputed) told them they should stop any disconnection and the only response he got was - we have noted your complain and will get back to you.

He's got nosey neighbours and the last thing he wants is anyone truning up whilst closed over the Festive season and talking to other businesses.

 

[WaveJumper]

And when he logs into his account what does it show ie is he in credit or debit i

 

[clamp1988]

Their side is not updated because of holidays- so it shows the entire balance of the 600ish outanding even though this was paid online through their portal with a debit card and he has sent them the poof.

 

[clamp1988]

They just worried that someone might come and just disconnect whilst they are shut over the holdiay period - I think you dont need a court order for business customers but not sure if they can force entry without a court order.

 

[Newchodge]

They just worried that someone might come and just disconnect whilst they are shut over the holdiay period - I think you dont need a court order for business customers but not sure if they can force entry without a court order.

The holiday period ends today!

 

[clamp1988]

They are shut till Friday. Quite a few small cafes are shut all week

 

[Mark James]

Tbh Clamp I don’t think there is much you can do until you hear back from Castle.

You could pay the field agents fee which would ensure you don’t get the water cut off then try and reclaim it.

 

[clamp1988]

Tbh Clamp I don’t think there is much you can do until you hear back from Castle.

You could pay the field agents fee which would ensure you don’t get the water cut off then try and reclaim it.

They have since paid that too- whether that gets passed to their theird party field collection is another thinggg. From what i have read on Trust pilot- there are a few similar stories. Most time they are intent on cutting off even if paid.

 

[Mark James]

If/when they turn up to cut off and you have proof of payment that you can show them ie the payment gone out the account from the bank from the mobile banking app then they would be breaking the law if they attempted to break in, in which case you could call the police and counter claim against them.

 

[fisicx]

How do they cut the water off?

If it’s just shutting the water main it’s not very effective. Do they block or remove pipework? I’m just curious as to how it’s done.

 

[eteb3]

Water Industry Act 1991

An Act to consolidate enactments relating to the supply of water and the provision of sewerage services, with amendments to give effect to recommendations of the Law Commission.

www.legislation.gov.uk

According to the Act, if within 7 days of the notice occupier serves a counter-notice disputing the amount, they can't be disconnected without a court judgement.

Regardless of the fairness of the charges, there may be an argument that the original £50 was not "in respect of the supply of water", since they say it arises from not giving access to the meter, and not the cost of the water itself. I'd be surprised if the water companies haven't tested that in court and won on it, but it may be worth a shot.

 

[clamp1988]

Water Industry Act 1991

An Act to consolidate enactments relating to the supply of water and the provision of sewerage services, with amendments to give effect to recommendations of the Law Commission.

www.legislation.gov.uk

According to the Act, if within 7 days of the notice occupier serves a counter-notice disputing the amount, they can't be disconnected without a court judgement.

Regardless of the fairness of the charges, there may be an argument that the original £50 was not "in respect of the supply of water", since they say it arises from not giving access to the meter, and not the cost of the water itself. I'd be surprised if the water companies haven't tested that in court and won on it, but it may be worth a shot.

does that apply to buisness customers? from what I have read with business customers they can pretty much do what they like.

 

[eteb3]

does that apply to buisness customers? from what I have read with business customers they can pretty much do what they like.

You can read it as well as I can (granted it’s a nest of insertions and amendments by now) but yes, it looks like that applies to biz customers.

Residential can’t be cut off at all.

NB Castle is a “water licensee” not an “undertaker”, if you’re puzzling over the wording. And they can’t cut off themselves, they have to ask the undertaker to do it (costs them?)

I had a quick look for an interpretation clause saying 7 days is 7 working days, but haven’t found one. EDIT there are explicit references to working days in other provisions, so it must be 7 calendar days.

 

[HFE Signs]

Have you spoken to them today now the holidays are over?

 

[eteb3]

You could pay the field agents fee which would ensure you don’t get the water cut off then try and reclaim it.

Wouldn't that be an acknowledgement of the whole debt? And why would it mean they wouldn't be cut off given some of the claimed debt would still be outstanding?

Seems to me the best thing is serve counter-notice pronto, then negotiate later.

 

[eteb3]

On a quick look I can't see the initial £50 charge for non-access on their list of charges, which by regulation they must provide (says Ofwat)

Useful Resources

Find a wealth of useful resources around water services Castle Water offers, including forms and prices. Find the right information for your business here.

www.castlewater.co.uk

You could argue it's not in the contract.

Obvs I don't know your region and you should check yourself.

 

[WaveJumper]

Simple answer here is the owner (as I assume this is not the OP) gives the company a call they are open from from 8.00 am to 6.00 pm and even have a web chat

 

[Socio South West]

Simple answer here is the owner (as I assume this is not the OP) gives the company a call they are open from from 8.00 am to 6.00 pm and even have a web chat

Your assumption here is
1) They have someone who will pick up a phone or respond to a live chat request
2) That person is a trained customer support specialist with the facilities and infrastructure to deal with the enquiry quickly, correctly and efficiently.

Sadly this is extremely rare in the days of offshore call centres and offshore freelancers working for pennies in the depths of the night their time

 

[clamp1988]

Was waiting for an update, he did speak to them today and after having paid £120 of water bill for NOV/Dec and charges of another £500, this morning they added another £66.00 they couldn't say what for as it hasn't appeared on their system but he paid anyway. So yes finally saga over fingers crossed. Now he is going to go after them for all the charges that were put on there.

 

[eteb3]

Now he is going to go after them for all the charges that were put on there.

Good luck with that. Payment is absolute acknowledgment of the sum claimed.

 

[clamp1988]

All charges paid are marked "In Dispute" except for water charges and this payment was only paid after a complaint letter disputing the charges

 

[eteb3]

All charges paid are marked "In Dispute" except for water charges and this payment was only paid after a complaint letter disputing the charges

If it sticks it will be out of Castle’s good will. You can’t pay and dispute at the same time. EDIT That’s presumably why the counter-notice is so powerful. It stops them behaving like a protection racket. All the owner needed to do was dispute it; didn’t need to dispute and pay

Conceivably the law has some wiggle room for a situation where the supplier has a monopoly, but I’ve never heard of one. Payment is agreement: that’s the rule.

Any proper lawyers care to let me know I have this wrong?

 

[Newchodge]

If it sticks it will be out of Castle’s good will. You can’t pay and dispute at the same time. EDIT That’s presumably why the counter-notice is so powerful. It stops them behaving like a protection racket. All the owner needed to do was dispute it; didn’t need to dispute and pay

Conceivably the law has some wiggle room for a situation where the supplier has a monopoly, but I’ve never heard of one. Payment is agreement: that’s the rule.

Any proper lawyers care to let me know I have this wrong?

Payment under protest would normally be an exception

 

[eteb3]

Proceed with caution

The Risks in Making 'Payments under Protest'

The Risks in Making ‘Payments under Protest’

www.irwinmitchell.com

 

[WaveJumper]

Out of interest (I’ve obviously taken a look at the website) are these sort of companies offering a better price or service than the main water companies

 

[clamp1988]

Out of interest (I’ve obviously taken a look at the website) are these sort of companies offering a better price or service than the main water companies

Have a look at the 1* reviews on Trust Pilot and their rates are no better. A lot of customer were shifted to them (think from Thames Water) with no choice. They seem to have large multiple accounts too and when the units get sold/occupied by smaller businesses their heavy handed tatics come into play.

 

[eteb3]

A monopoly supply in private hands - what could possibly go wrong?

 

[Stephen Ball]

Unfortunately the late payment fees from water suppliers of typically £40 / £50 is really common, however we have fought (and won back) the exorbitant 'debt collection visit' fees of £250 or more - in your case £290.

Castle Water's terms state (3.6) Without prejudice to the Scheme of Charges, Castle Water will charge the Customer and the Customer agrees to pay to us Castle Water reasonable costs incurred to recover outstanding sums from you. Such costs may include, visiting a property to collect money you owe, litigation (the cost of which will be recoverable from you on a full indemnity basis) and disconnecting and reconnecting your supply.

Firstly, did the debt collection visit on the 20th December actually even happen? We find that in some cases, mysteriously nobody seems to be recall such a visit nor is any proof of such a visit available...so there's £290 you might be able to fight. Did they visit directly, or did they sub-contract to a debt collector? Was anything left at the premises?

Secondly, their terms state 'reasonable costs INCURRED'. If they are charged £290 from a debt collection agency, and the visit actually happened, then perhaps a tough one to argue. However if they aren't charged £290, or they visited the property themselves, it might be difficult for them to argue they INCURRED £290 in costs which they are attempting to recover from you.

 

[Stephen Ball]

Out of interest (I’ve obviously taken a look at the website) are these sort of companies offering a better price or service than the main water companies

We help businesses switch water suppliers - which at the moment could be worthwhile if they spent around £5k a year or more on water.

Castle Water are the DEFAULT retailer for several wholesale areas, and so are not really considered totally independent.

Totally independent water suppliers (those which are NOT the default retailer for any areas, or very few areas) have to fight to win business and grow, based on price and service. It is these suppliers we are seeing great improvements on services, billing, price and customer relations. Examples would be ConservAqua, Water2Business and First Business Water.